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Old 04-08-2020, 03:45 PM
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Since We're Binge Watching (Mad Men Question/Discussion)


I am rewatching Mad Men and something struck me. I just started Season 4 so this may not bear out.

When Don was married to Betty, he never cheated on her with a blonde...they were all brunettes or redheads. Now that he's divorced his first serious "date" (meaning they don't immediately end up in bed) is with a blonde.

I know he marries Meghan, but I can't remember if he cheats on her (knowing Don, most likely) or he stays away from brunettes during that marriage.

The show is compelling but damn, I can't really root for anyone. MAYBE Peggy and Joan. I do remember cheering when I saw Joan finally got an office with Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce.
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Old 04-09-2020, 09:18 AM
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Mad Men was a show I watched because I felt I should. I felt obligated, because everyone said it was excellent writing, etc. I couldn't stand it. The only things I liked were the costumes and sets, the 60s stuff. Sometimes I liked Roger for his wit, Peggy for her feminism, and Pete just for the line "Not great, Bob!" Other than that I didn't find a single character likeable.

Don does cheat on Megan. With the neighbor down the hall. Can't remember what color her hair was.
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Old 04-09-2020, 09:56 AM
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I love this show and everything about it, yet I could rewatch the whole series and it would almost be like watching for the first time. As in, there were some great memorable moments but a lot of the details about who's who and whatnot have not stayed with me.

Off the top of my head,I can only recall one other blonde that Don was with; the psychologist(?) he was with for awhile. I can't recall if he was with Meghan at the time, though.

Interesting, now that you mention it, that he did always seem to be with brunettes. A deliberate choice by Matthew Weiner?
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ivylass View Post
I am rewatching Mad Men and something struck me. I just started Season 4 so this may not bear out.

When Don was married to Betty, he never cheated on her with a blonde...they were all brunettes or redheads. Now that he's divorced his first serious "date" (meaning they don't immediately end up in bed) is with a blonde.

I know he marries Meghan, but I can't remember if he cheats on her (knowing Don, most likely) or he stays away from brunettes during that marriage.

The show is compelling but damn, I can't really root for anyone. MAYBE Peggy and Joan. I do remember cheering when I saw Joan finally got an office with Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce.
Root for Sally, one of the finest child characters on episodic television.
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:20 AM
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I ADORED this show. I am about three years younger than Peggy's character, and although I never worked in a high-powered agency like SCDP, I did work in a large, male-dominated industry/institution in the early 1970s. The five men in my department treated me as a bright mascot (of course, I WAS a Cute Young Thing back then). I was never as ambitious as Peggy, and while I did throw myself at a married colleague, he was smart enough to gently brush me off.

I've tried to watch it again, but the experience of immersing myself in that world was so emotional I couldn't do it. NO ONE in the show was likable, and after every episode, I swore to myself that I would have to stop... but I never could.

Don Draper's character is probably THE sexiest, most attractive male character I've ever seen-- not in the sense that I felt any desire for him to be real so we could have a relationship-- but just in terms of what my age group, growing up in the 1950s, imprinted on: the good-looking, short-haired, well-dressed, (outwardly) confident Man with a capital "M." The talent and charisma he displayed-- like when he made his merry-go-round presentation-- was mesmerizing. Don wasn't an intellectual (which is the type I'm attracted to IRL), but he was someone who used his instinct and intuition to survive. The fact that Don had a hidden vulnerability just made him all the more magnetic (moth to the flame kind of magnetism, that is).

Someday I might be able to watch it again...
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:20 AM
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I think it had something to do with his mom or his "mom" and/or the prostitute he was with when he was a kid. Man, I am just not remembering something but it was alluded to at some point. He had a thing for brunettes related to the women in his childhood.
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:21 AM
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I didn't like anyone on the show except Peggy (Joan's a good person, but didn't enjoy the character), but loved the show. I wonder if there's anything predictive of that dichotomy. My parents also need something to root for. Generational?
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:27 AM
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Don Draper's character is probably THE sexiest, most attractive male character I've ever seen--
I'm trying to withhold judgment on you and women in general (I think your opinion here is a/the common one, fwiw), but I certainly find this interesting, especially as the character is not a good person and is not supposed to be a "good" (and hence many would say should be "unlikable") guy, also according to Jon Hamm (who iirc in many interviews said he wasn't anything like Don, a terrible guy). I think maybe his charisma was just off the charts, which I guess for attractiveness makes his terrible traits sort of irrelevant in the same way men can overlook a lot if a woman is "hot."
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:34 AM
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Off the top of my head,I can only recall one other blonde that Don was with; the psychologist(?) he was with for awhile. I can't recall if he was with Meghan at the time, though.
He dumped her for Meghan; there was a brief overlap where Meghan was the other woman.


Don Draper is a terrible person in many regards. He also had a terrible childhood, and I think the writers made an attempt to connect the dots between how he treats women and how the women in his childhood treated him. I'm not sure they really succeeded but there's a lot to chew on there. Regardless, I don't think you're supposed to root for him. In the show he's a force of nature that everyone else just has to reckon with.

I've watched the series 3 times and I can't say I've ever really understood Peggy. At one point she says of the high-rolling residents of Manhattan (compared to the working class in Brooklyn), something along the lines of, "They ARE better." She genuinely believes that the wealthy have something that the poor do not, and aspires for that power, but at the same time she has a front row seat to the unfair advantages that same class has, and bears the brunt of the sexism endemic to that power differential. It always struck me as odd how unsympathetic she was towards other women. She also never expressed any real remorse for dumping her kid on her sister; one of my favorite lines in the show is Don telling Peggy in the hospital, "This never happened. It will shock you how much this never happened." So she can be a tricky one to root for as well.

Peter Campbell is a rapist, even though both Matthew Weiner and Vincent Kartheiser both letter expressed utter shock that anyone could come to the conclusion that he was a rapist after filming a scene where he clearly raped someone. Not to mention a whoremonger and a cheater. At the same time, his cold and distant childhood paints him as a somewhat sympathetic character. Still, as much as I love examining Pete Campbell's motivations, he's the one I'm most irritated about the show forgetting his past sins.

There's one scene in season 6 or 7, I won't spoiler this so I'll be vague, where a character abruptly brings up his WWII experience which has clearly given him PTSD. The show has a way of making you hate people and then suddenly throwing cold water on your hatred. Mad Men has some of the most complex characters ever written, and it's one of my favorite shows ever. But you never really come away from it liking anyone.

Last edited by steronz; 04-09-2020 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by actualliberalnotoneofthose View Post
I'm trying to withhold judgment on you and women in general (I think your opinion here is a/the common one, fwiw), but I certainly find this interesting, especially as the character is not a good person and is not supposed to be a "good" (and hence many would say should be "unlikable") guy, also according to Jon Hamm (who iirc in many interviews said he wasn't anything like Don, a terrible guy). I think maybe his charisma was just off the charts, which I guess for attractiveness makes his terrible traits sort of irrelevant in the same way men can overlook a lot if a woman is "hot."
How magnanimous of you to TRY TO "withhold judgment."

I made it clear that NO ONE on the show was likable, and his attractiveness to me was based on the attractiveness standard of the era in which I reached puberty. (I knew a guy my age who thought that full-sized white cotton panties on a woman were THE sexiest underwear in the world for reasons you don't need a shrink to figure out...)

For a further example, the early James Bond/Sean Connery was also cut from this cloth, but no woman then or now in the Real World or in her right mind would want to try to be in a relationship with him.

ETA:
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...Mad Men has some of the most complex characters ever written, and it's one of my favorite shows ever. But you never really come away from it liking anyone.
PERFECTLY stated!

Last edited by ThelmaLou; 04-09-2020 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:45 AM
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I binge watched the series because my gf works in advertising. I loved the series. She watched an episode or two but it was too real life for her to enjoy.
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Old 04-09-2020, 11:00 AM
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Bert Cooper always seemed to be a good egg. And there was. . .um. . .yeah, just Bert.
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Old 04-09-2020, 11:09 AM
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Bert Cooper was a little bit racist, but otherwise not terrible.
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Old 04-09-2020, 11:43 AM
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Peggy wasn't an asshole right? She was the moral center of the show.
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Old 04-09-2020, 11:46 AM
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Trivia point.

For fans of Endeavour. In season three, the episode entitled Trove,
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ValMu [British agency promoting a beauty contest] fields a call from "Lane at SCDP" in New York. SCDP refers to in Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce, the New York City advertising agency from the American TV show Mad Men, which was transpiring in the same time frame. "Lane" was Lane Pryce, the English advertising executive played on Mad Men by Jared Harris.
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Old 04-09-2020, 12:04 PM
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Steronz - Peggy did not 'dump her kid on her sister'. Peggy gave the baby up for adoption, and the baby is gone, not to come back. She has regrets, of course, but there is no way she could have kept it and been a single mother. She didn't even know she was pregnant until she went into labor, and her career is everything. It worked out well for Peggy and the baby. The sister had her own baby, NOT Peggy's.I

I adore this show. The greatest episode was 'The Suitcase'. and in that episode, Don asked Pegg if she ever thought about her adopted-out child. She said words to the effect that she did sometimes, when passing by playgrounds. (I'm surprised her mother didn't make more of a stink about it, holding her illegitimate birth over her head, she already thought Peggy was a slut and a sinner by wanting to live in the city away from her family)

Last edited by salinqmind; 04-09-2020 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 04-09-2020, 12:10 PM
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Steronz - Peggy did not 'dump her kid on her sister'. Peggy gave the baby up for adoption, and the baby is gone, not to come back. She has regrets, of course, but there is no way she could have kept it and been a single mother. She didn't even know she was pregnant until she went into labor, and her career is everything. It worked out well for Peggy and the baby. The sister had her own baby, NOT Peggy's.)
Interesting. I just went looking and found this on reddit along with a bunch of people as confused as I am:

Quote:
If I recall correctly, they intentionally made it ambiguous for a while, so many people believed Peggy's sister kept the baby. It was later revealed that the baby was actually her sister's own child, and Peggy and Pete's baby was indeed given up for adoption. However, the whole thing was so confusing that people have kept asking the same question for years.
So I guess I made an assumption my first watch through and never bent on that Thanks for the education, that does change my view of Peggy.
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Old 04-09-2020, 12:23 PM
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He dumped her for Meghan; there was a brief overlap where Meghan was the other woman.
Correct.

Also,
SPOILER:
Don slept with Betty after they were divorced. I don't remember whether he was at the time still married to Megan.


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Don does cheat on Megan. With the neighbor down the hall. Can't remember what color her hair was.
Sylvia Rosen, black hair.
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Old 04-09-2020, 12:46 PM
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Don had a big old madonna/whore complex and blondes were the good girls you either married or thought about marrying (including his "first wife" Anna Draper) and the brunettes were the slutty girls you banged around with while married to the nice blonde ladies. Megan was an anomaly, probably because he was basically marrying a nanny and I think he was trying to get hold on his philandering ways by marrying the one he really only wanted to bang around with like perhaps that would solve his mental dilemma. The fact that it didn't work was surprising to, basically, no one.

I had a rough time with this show because my dad basically WAS Don Draper, IBM executive rather than an ad man but similarly tall, handsome, charismatic and a tail chasing alcoholic who treated his family like shit on a good day. I identified strongly with Sally--even down to mixing the drinks at parties and how everyone thought it was "so cute" even as I was snitching sips enough to get fairly hammered at age ten. Man, those were some benighted times!
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Old 04-09-2020, 12:49 PM
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Bert Cooper always seemed to be a good egg. And there was. . .um. . .yeah, just Bert.
Ken Cosgrove seemed like a good guy. If anything, he put up with too much shit and his final moment of telling Roger to piss off was well overdue. Overall, he seemed to have a good attitude, tried to do his job well and didn't look to screw anyone over.

Granted, he was missing from a good part of the show in the middle seasons so he was more of a B-Tier character.

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Old 04-09-2020, 01:31 PM
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...I had a rough time with this show because my dad basically WAS Don Draper, IBM executive rather than an ad man but similarly tall, handsome, charismatic and a tail chasing alcoholic who treated his family like shit on a good day. I identified strongly with Sally--even down to mixing the drinks at parties and how everyone thought it was "so cute" even as I was snitching sips enough to get fairly hammered at age ten. Man, those were some benighted times!
Oh my. That would make the show a painful thing to watch.

Back when I said I adored the show, I want to clarify: I adored it as a literary work, as moving, poignant, vivid reconstruction of a time that was troubled, even if often painted as idyllic. I don't want to go back to those times and when I watched it, there were no characters I wanted to trade places with. But after an episode I often sat either in stunned silence or in tears. The episode near the end where Peggy and Don dance in the office at night was very moving, but only if you knew the back story and what they had gone through separately and together to get to that moment.
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Old 04-09-2020, 01:51 PM
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Back when I said I adored the show, I want to clarify: I adored it as a literary work, as moving, poignant, vivid reconstruction of a time that was troubled, even if often painted as idyllic.
My wife refuses to watch the show because she says it's sexist. I tried to explain the difference between showing sexism and endorsing sexism, but she would never watch long enough to realize that we weren't meant to admire the behavior of the ad executives in the first few episodes.
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Old 04-09-2020, 02:32 PM
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Correct.

Also,
SPOILER:
Don slept with Betty after they were divorced. I don't remember whether he was at the time still married to Megan.


Sylvia Rosen, black hair.
Betty and Don were divorced, she 'lost all the weight' and was happily married to Henry. Betty and Don were taking Bobby (the son) as a family to a summer camp. I think it was Betty who initiated the one-night stand, for old time's sake. I can see it happening. She always thought he was great in bed. And even though Don might have been married to Megan, well, why would that stop him? It was a little flashback to when they were a family unit. Don lost no time in having a hot and heavy affair with his neighbor Sylvia. In the same building, no less!

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Old 04-09-2020, 02:38 PM
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And after Peter was warned to stay away from his neighbor's nanny. Although Pete and Trudy's Charleston dance was a joy to behold.
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Old 04-09-2020, 03:34 PM
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Off the top of my head,I can only recall one other blonde that Don was with; the psychologist(?) he was with for awhile. I can't recall if he was with Meghan at the time, though.
Faye Miller (Cara Buono).

FWIW, Dr. Faye may have been Jewish (which may have given her "non-blonde" points in Don's eyes) as evidenced by her use of the Yiddish insult "go shit in the ocean" when she broke up with her boyfriend on the pay phone.
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Old 04-09-2020, 04:43 PM
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The show is compelling but damn, I can't really root for anyone. MAYBE Peggy and Joan. I do remember cheering when I saw Joan finally got an office with Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce.
Although it should be noted that Joan gets the second worst office with a window facing the creative lounge and two doors between parallel hallways that everyone just walks right through her office. (The worst is Pete's office with that support column that was always in the way, but it's Pete so fuck that guy) She is still treated basically like a secretary even though when Sterling, Cooper, Draper, and Price decided to raid the former Sterling Cooper, it was Joan who knew where to find everything and how to get ad hoc offices set up tout suite. She is later treated as a commodity to be traded for a new client and then shamed for it (one of the rare instances of boorish behavior that wasn't attributable to Don Draper), and not to spoil anything but she ultimately ends up having the greatest character development and arguably the best outcome of any character.

Peggy is more obviously supposed to be an exploration of burgeoning female liberalism (sexually and otherwise) and was explicitly modeled on Helen Gurley Brown, author of Sex and the Single Girl, I found her denouement to be not as ultimately satisfying. It was obviously done for contrast but her development follows a more conventional trajectory. I won't say more because the o.p. is still in the middle of the show's run but I was not as thrilled with her conclusion.

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Root for Sally, one of the finest child characters on episodic television.
Sally is a good character and Kiernan Shipka is a fine if slightly overly mannered actress, but I don't quite buy into her development through the show. She has an absentee, dishonest father and a sometimes abusive, narcissistic mother, and yet, she seems to somehow end up a well-adjusted young woman with generally good judgment and moderate temperament. She does have some time with a child psychologist and formed a platonic bond with 'Glenn' which actually ends up being fairly mature despite what a creep he starts out being (unsurprising given his upbringing) but honestly given the lack of good example and supervision combined with the era she is coming into maturity in, I would expect more behavioral and emotional issues that she would have to work through.

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Old 04-09-2020, 05:00 PM
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... (Joan) ultimately ends up having the greatest character development and arguably the best outcome of any character.
Yes! I remember when she's showing Peggy around in the first episode: "...accounts, and creative. Don't ask me the difference."

Her expertise in 1960 was more like knowing what whiskey brand which executive drank. Eventually it became clear she was smarter than most of those empty suits.

And with a mention of the stupendous Joan, my inner Beavis can't help but note... Heh, heh you said development

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Sally is a good character and Kiernan Shipka is a fine if slightly overly mannered actress, but I don't quite buy into her development through the show. She has an absentee, dishonest father and a sometimes abusive, narcissistic mother, and yet, she seems to somehow end up a well-adjusted young woman with generally good judgment and moderate temperament. She does have some time with a child psychologist and formed a platonic bond with 'Glenn' which actually ends up being fairly mature despite what a creep he starts out being (unsurprising given his upbringing) but honestly given the lack of good example and supervision combined with the era she is coming into maturity in, I would expect more behavioral and emotional issues that she would have to work through.
[Grampa Simpson]It's TV![GPS]
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Old 04-09-2020, 05:10 PM
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I would love to see a "sequel," perhaps 20 years in the future in the 80s or 90s, to see where everyone is. I know Betty was dying of lung cancer at the end, so she's probably gone.
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Old 04-09-2020, 05:19 PM
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Yes! I remember when she's showing Peggy around in the first episode: "...accounts, and creative. Don't ask me the difference."

Her expertise in 1960 was more like knowing what whiskey brand which executive drank. Eventually it became clear she was smarter than most of those empty suits.
I would say that even at that point she knew a lot more than she let on; she simply lacked the ambition to aim higher, and indeed, she is slyly contemptuous when Peggy aspires to become a copywriter. Again, I don't want to spoil things for the o.p. but she undergoes a transformation with starts with "that scene", and her dissatisfaction with being treated alternately like a functionary and a prize to be put on display leads her to reject everything that she initially wanted for herself, and she frankly comes out better than pretty much any of the other female characters in the show.

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And with a mention of the stupendous Joan, my inner Beavis can't help but note... Heh, heh you said development

[Grampa Simpson]It's TV![GPS]
Sure, but the show goes to great lengths to show the emotional reality of what the kind of lives these characters lead actually does to them. Don is a hollow shell that can't stop lying even to himself because he is literally living a lie. Betty is a vacuous narcissist who won't stop sabotaging herself. Peggy is an ingenue with dreams of living in the big city, and when confronted with the pettiness and spite doesn't succumb to being the same but (mostly) rises above her colleagues by sincere effort and talent. Roger Sterling is basically an overgrown child whose even well-intentioned gestures backfire because he doesn't understand what it is like not to be an wealthy white guy who had everything handed to him. Pete Campbell is a bitter entitled little brat thanks to his own distant and hypercritical upbringing who has a drive to succeed despite his lack talent and charm. Sal is in total denial of his homosexuality in order to fit in even though it is throttling him. Ken is an apparently empty suit who nonetheless has enviable and effortless talent both with clients and writing. And so forth.

Sally, on the other hand, seems unfazed by what is essentially an abusive, neglectful childhood subjected to some severe ugliness in the adults around her, and yet, comes out seemingly remarkably well adjusted. Maybe she's just an inherently resilient personality but you'd expect her to be working through a lot of issues in her adolescence regardless. I just don't buy the character even though Shipka plays her well.

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Old 04-09-2020, 05:30 PM
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I would love to see a "sequel," perhaps 20 years in the future in the 80s or 90s, to see where everyone is. I know Betty was dying of lung cancer at the end, so she's probably gone.
I respectfully disagree. The ending of the show was perfect (and I predicted that they would use that commercial because it was the iconic commercial of the 'Seventies, even if it was slightly anachronistic in the timeline of the show) and I don't know what would be gained by trying to soldier it on. Mad Men was a rare show that I felt never tried to overstay its welcome and went out on a high note even if Season 4 was a hard watch. It always seemed to be going somewhere with a consistent arc throughout each series and an ultimate goal where each character was going to end up. A sequel or spinoff show would have to justify itself on its own merits rather than just be an extension of this one, and frankly, the way Draper lives, I wouldn't expect him to make it to 1990 in any case. Most of the other characters don't really have future arcs either, unless you think Roger Sterling is suddenly going to get motivated to sail singlehanded around the world or you have some desire to see Pete and Trudy Campbell living in the Midwest.

I think the best you could do is put Joan and Peggy back together, but then you're basically just getting an upmarket Laverne & Shirley. Besides, all the actors have essentially moved onto other work, and I'm morally certain that John Hamm would like people to know that he can do more than play Don Draper and star in shitty Netflix movies.

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Old 04-09-2020, 05:52 PM
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Oh, all right. It went out in a blaze of glory and we certainly don't want to AfterMASH it. It was a jewel of a show.
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Old 04-09-2020, 05:53 PM
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Ken Cosgrove seemed like a good guy. If anything, he put up with too much shit and his final moment of telling Roger to piss off was well overdue. Overall, he seemed to have a good attitude, tried to do his job well and didn't look to screw anyone over.

Granted, he was missing from a good part of the show in the middle seasons so he was more of a B-Tier character.
A lot of the B-tier office characters were OK — Stan, Ginsberg, Dawn. Except Harry. Harry’s the worst.
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Old 04-09-2020, 06:30 PM
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Pete Campbell is a bitter entitled little brat thanks to his own distant and hypercritical upbringing who has a drive to succeed despite his lack talent and charm.
Pete is a charmless, bitter, entitled little brat, but he's pretty talented as an account man.
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Old 04-09-2020, 07:12 PM
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A lot of the B-tier office characters were OK — Stan, Ginsberg, Dawn. Except Harry. Harry’s the worst.
I'll never forget that Hare Krishna skankn ('I burn for you. Burn. does your wife burn for you??'). busting into his office and leaning over his desk, and him unbuckling his pants as fast as he could. I could smell the yeast infection and gonorrhea discharge right over the screen. (and she was so stupid, it didn't get her anywhere at all )
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Old 04-09-2020, 07:26 PM
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Sally will be fine. She has had more issues than just the remote or cold parents. She caught Roger with his pants down at the award ceremony, she caught her father with HIS pants down, she was probably 'the lady of the house' after Betty got cancer. She dabbled in drugs. But so many young people had it worse in the 60's, she had her father's love and support, there was some money in the family...she had been a steady level-headed character on the show, no reason to think she would decompensate in later years. She never WAS a jolly giggly airhead Brady Bunch type, acting stupid, getting drugged out or knocked up. In the 60's-70's, there were disgusting hippies and there were the Nixon girl types, with helmet hair and white gloves, parallel worlds. there are all types in the world.

Last edited by salinqmind; 04-09-2020 at 07:28 PM.
  #36  
Old 04-09-2020, 07:37 PM
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Oh, all right. It went out in a blaze of glory and we certainly don't want to AfterMASH it. It was a jewel of a show.
Ugh...AfterMASH. The only thing worse was W*A*L*T*E*R

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A lot of the B-tier office characters were OK — Stan, Ginsberg, Dawn. Except Harry. Harry’s the worst.
Yeah, but Harry was intentionally the worst. He was so good at being terrible that you just sort of felt bad for everyone, even Roger Sterling, for having to deal with him. And he was so intent on that partnership that they were never going to offer him. He's a perfect fit at McCann, where he can grate against being the servile toad that he is.

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Originally Posted by zbuzz View Post
Pete is a charmless, bitter, entitled little brat, but he's pretty talented as an account man.
Well, he works hard at being a sycophantic supplicant, but as Lane Pryce notes, “It’s become apparent that you are excellent at making the clients feel their needs are being met. But Mr. Cosgrove has the rare gift of making them feel as if they haven’t any needs.” Pete is a hard worker but he was hired for his Dyckman name and the access it gave the agency, not for his gifts with people.

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  #37  
Old 04-09-2020, 08:07 PM
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Sally is a good character and Kiernan Shipka is a fine if slightly overly mannered actress, but I don't quite buy into her development through the show. She has an absentee, dishonest father and a sometimes abusive, narcissistic mother, and yet, she seems to somehow end up a well-adjusted young woman with generally good judgment and moderate temperament. She does have some time with a child psychologist and formed a platonic bond with 'Glenn' which actually ends up being fairly mature despite what a creep he starts out being (unsurprising given his upbringing) but honestly given the lack of good example and supervision combined with the era she is coming into maturity in, I would expect more behavioral and emotional issues that she would have to work through.

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As someone who identifies strongly with Sally I disagree--some girls are able to look around them and see how all the stupid fucking shit the adults do leads to nothing but trouble and strife and unhappiness and they become careful and cautious. When you know for a fact that nobody is in your corner, nobody's looking out for you and nobody's going to catch you if you fall you become preternaturally and precociously capable and you guard against excess at all costs. You become uber responsible and end up nannying your wilder, dumber girlfriends. You buy them Kwell when they catch crabs, you bring them pregnancy tests and sit with them at Planned Parenthood, you hold their heads while they ralph up their toenails and fend off overly grabby guys at the parties they strand you at because you know someone's going to have to drive them home when they've gotten done banging some rando whose best buddy is trying to do the same to you. You yourself, however, never need these services because--responsible. Ask me how I know this.
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Old 04-09-2020, 11:34 PM
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Well, he works hard at being a sycophantic supplicant, but as Lane Pryce notes, “It’s become apparent that you are excellent at making the clients feel their needs are being met. But Mr. Cosgrove has the rare gift of making them feel as if they haven’t any needs.” Pete is a hard worker but he was hired for his Dyckman name and the access it gave the agency, not for his gifts with people.
No, Pete certainly wasn't hired because anyone thought he'd make a good account man, it just turns out that he was particularly talented at it.
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Old 04-10-2020, 03:23 AM
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How magnanimous of you to TRY TO "withhold judgment."

I made it clear that NO ONE on the show was likable, and his attractiveness to me was based on the attractiveness standard of the era in which I reached puberty. (I knew a guy my age who thought that full-sized white cotton panties on a woman were THE sexiest underwear in the world for reasons you don't need a shrink to figure out...)

For a further example, the early James Bond/Sean Connery was also cut from this cloth, but no woman then or now in the Real World or in her right mind would want to try to be in a relationship with him.
My post was clumsily stated but I apologize if it came off as any kind of personal attack. I was trying to say that I understood why Don the character was charismatic and attractive and I should have excluded the extraneous intro to my thoughts. Based on your other posts, your view of the show was similar to my wife's and I probably brought that into it wrongly. Sorry.

Last edited by actualliberalnotoneofthose; 04-10-2020 at 03:25 AM.
  #40  
Old 04-10-2020, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by actualliberalnotoneofthose View Post
My post was clumsily stated but I apologize if it came off as any kind of personal attack. I was trying to say that I understood why Don the character was charismatic and attractive and I should have excluded the extraneous intro to my thoughts. Based on your other posts, your view of the show was similar to my wife's and I probably brought that into it wrongly. Sorry.
No prob.
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Old 04-10-2020, 07:47 AM
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Again, I don't want to spoil things for the o.p. but...
For what it's worth, the OP says she's in the middle of rewatching the series. I think she just never took a census of Don's affair's hair colors before.
  #42  
Old 04-10-2020, 08:48 AM
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Correct. There is such a fine detail to everything in the show it wouldn't surprise me if Don has a preference for hair color when it came to marrying versus cheating.
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Old 04-10-2020, 10:40 AM
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Mad Men was a show I watched because I felt I should. I felt obligated, because everyone said it was excellent writing, etc. I couldn't stand it. The only things I liked were the costumes and sets, the 60s stuff. Sometimes I liked Roger for his wit, Peggy for her feminism, and Pete just for the line "Not great, Bob!" Other than that I didn't find a single character likeable.
Not to threadshit, but this for me too. Watching this for watercooler talk was the "in" thing to do. At some point I was like, well, I'm too invested to stop now. I was happy when I found out it was ending. I very much did like ogling Joan. Mmmm. There's just something about that style era and a good looking woman.
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Old 04-10-2020, 06:07 PM
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How Don never came down with a venereal disease escapes me.
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