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Old 12-22-2019, 01:16 AM
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I Think I Just Saw Trump's Winning Campaign Slogan


They are not coming for me. They are coming for you. I am just in the way.

Link

Damn. I just read the latest Andrew Sullivan column. (I cannot find it at the moment.) Somehow that lead me to the meme above. Damn. I think this is a winning idea.

Sullivan laid out very clearly how a lot of Americans feel ill-used and ignored. Trump tapped into that. If any of the other Republicans had pulled the stick out of their butt they could have won with his message of long-simmering humiliation.


Sullivan did not take the next step however by pointing out that President Trump pandered to and betrayed their base just the same as Nixon, Reagan, Bush and all the others.


Still, that is a darn fine slogan. I think it will work.
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Old 12-22-2019, 08:32 AM
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The counter to that, which of course can not be demonstrated until after THEY get Trump, is: Look- They got Trump, seemed satisfied, and never did come for you after all.
Again, that wouldn't counter the con as it was being run by Trump, which is a useful feature in your idea, but would be effective after. Con men know more about this stuff than I do.
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Old 12-22-2019, 12:16 PM
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Unfortunately, it probably WILL work. But that says more about the mental capabilities of most of the people (lizard brains) in his "base" than it does anything else.
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Old 12-22-2019, 12:24 PM
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The counter to that, which of course can not be demonstrated until after THEY get Trump, is: Look- They got Trump, seemed satisfied, and never did come for you after all.
Again, that wouldn't counter the con as it was being run by Trump, which is a useful feature in your idea, but would be effective after. Con men know more about this stuff than I do.
I think you utterly missed the meaning. The SJW agenda is "coming after" the Trump loyalists and it will continue after they "get" Trump.
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Old 12-22-2019, 01:35 PM
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Who, specifically, is likely to be persuaded by this slogan who isn't already a committed Trump voter?
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Old 12-22-2019, 01:53 PM
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Who, specifically, is likely to be persuaded by this slogan who isn't already a committed Trump voter?
Definitely directed at his core but it might be persuasive to some of the "burn it down" types who might be currently backing say Sanders or Gabbard.
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Old 12-22-2019, 01:58 PM
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I also thought that slogan was well-executed, if thoroughly despicable. In terms of propaganda, it's pretty good. As far as who will be motivated by it, I dunno. Both parties have their solid base and are fighting over the "don't bother to vote" contingent. This might move some of them.
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Old 12-22-2019, 03:00 PM
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I would have gone with "I'm not Donald. I'm his identical twin brother Daniel Trump. I'm the good one."

It's a long shot but I think it's the best one for avoiding Trump's biggest liability.
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Old 12-22-2019, 04:22 PM
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Who will that kind of message reach? Disaffected people in the middle of the country who see Washington as the enemy, but who don't particularly care about the minutae of politics.

The Democrats are going to have the same problem as the Liberals in Canada. The zeitgeist on the left at this time is all about climate change and big city politics. But those policies are destructive in places like Wisconsin, the Dakotas, and other places that have boom economies based on fossil fuels.

In the last election in Canada, the Liberals were completely wiped out in Saskatchewan and Alberta, as well as rural and small town regions in Ontario, Quebec and BC. Canada's concentration of population in the regions they took allowed them to survive with a minority government. The Democrats in the U.S. don't have that luxury.

In the last debate, Joe Biden didn't hesitate to say that he would destroy hundreds of thousands of oil and gas jobs for climate change. He then said there would be new 'green' jobs to replace them, but that's a fantasy. Alberta's NDP promised the same, and all we got were the job losses.

Elizabeth Warren says she'll shut down fracking and offshore drilling on her first day in office. I guess she doesn't need any votes between the coasts and a few big cities, because talk like that will ensure she doesn't get any.

That's who Trump's meme is going to affect.

Democrats better look hard at what happened to the Liberals in Canada and Labour in the UK, and start moderating their extreme positions.
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Old 12-22-2019, 07:37 PM
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The zeitgeist on the left at this time is all about climate change and big city politics. But those policies are destructive in places like Wisconsin, the Dakotas, and other places that have boom economies based on fossil fuels.

Yep that is more or less it. Cities have grown ever-larger, they are now so massive that the structural advantages given to rural areas can no longer constrain them. Power is moving from rural areas to city ones and that frightens a lot of rural people. They are angry and scared.


That might be enough to swing this election for President Trump. In the long run demographics is destiny.


In time the cities will pay back the rural counties in their same coin. No way around it. It will not be pretty.


Still, Democrats ought not to push too soon. Give it time before they go whole-hog with some of their policies that upset rural folk.
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Old 12-22-2019, 07:43 PM
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That seems a rather grim and untrue view of the situation. You think there's no farmers or fishermen worried about climate change? And you paint it as if "the cities" are some cabal awaiting their moment to strike the heart of their sworn rural enemies. Sheesh.
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Old 12-22-2019, 08:40 PM
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I don't think farmers and fishermen are worried as much about climate change than they are of the policies of a hostile government.

Getting back to Alberta, I'll point out fhat what's already been done to our economy is likely worse than what climate change would do over decades. In fact, being a northern landlocked province it's entirely possible that we would benefit from moderate warming. But federal climate policy has gutted our ability to get oil to market, killing tens of thousands of jobs and putting the province in recession. Calgary has a 30% downtown vacancy rate as many oil and gas companies left. Alberta went in 5 years from having the lowest unemployment in Canada to the highest.

And for what? Canada is a blip in the global warming numbers. The coal plants we shut down and the oil we stopped shipping doesn't even match a few months of *increase in fossil fuel energy in China. And yet, even that is ripping apart Canada. There is now a serious western separation movement building in western Canada over this.

And yet, what the Democrats are promising would be far more extreme. Consider Warren's promise to end fracking. According to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, fracking has already created 1.7 million jobs in the U.S., and will create 3.5 million more by 2030.

Cite.

Elizabeth Warren's plan pretty much sounds like 'they are coming for you'. Add up all those fracking jobs, plus the families and friends of the people in them, and Warren would be directly and very negatively affecting maybe 10 million people or more, plus all the fax revenue, etc. And that's just one small part of her grand collection of plans for other people's lives, all of which will destroy jobs and the economy in general.

No one buys the 'green jobs' bullshit. And oil patch workers making big salaries would not be happy losing their high paying jobs in favor of installing weather stripping for $15/hr. And if there are new 'green jobs', there's mo guarantee that they would be in regions hardest hit by her policies, or that the people trained in the oil and gas sector would be qualified for them.

These are the fears Trump is playing off.

Last edited by Sam Stone; 12-22-2019 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 12-23-2019, 01:00 AM
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Maybe. But if tomorrow he figured he could get more mileage out of scaring us with lean and hungry barbarians from the North....it would be you. Eh?
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Old 12-23-2019, 01:10 AM
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New York Post just ran an article on what the OP is talking about:

https://nypost.com/2019/12/21/donald...rce=reddit.com
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Old 12-23-2019, 02:03 AM
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Us vs. them: Trump aiming to use impeachment to rev up base at the AP.
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Using stark “us vs. them” language, President Donald Trump and his reelection campaign have begun framing his impeachment not as a judgment on his conduct but as a referendum on how Democrats regard him and his supporters.

Mere days from the start of an election year, the White House and its allies are painting Trump’s impeachment on charges of abuse of power and obstruction of Congress as an effort to undo his 2016 victory and discount the will of the people.
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His campaign believes that anger at impeachment may be the motivation needed to bring out voters who stayed home in the 2016 election but approve of the president and are fed up with the Washington establishment.

“After three years of sinister witch hunts, hoaxes, scams,” Trump roared during an impeachment-night rally in Michigan, “the House Democrats are trying to nullify the ballots of tens of millions of patriotic Americans.”


It doesn't even make sense. "House Democrats" can't do anything more than they've already done.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 12-23-2019 at 02:04 AM.
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Old 12-23-2019, 02:04 AM
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I don't think farmers and fishermen are worried as much about climate change than they are of the policies of a hostile government.
Except farmers are literally holding large-scale conventions on how to deal with climate change and its effects.

But hey, cheer for how things will get better for you with increased global temperatures. Just be ready for all those Mexicans - might want to start on a wall or something.
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Old 12-23-2019, 02:28 AM
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Getting back to Alberta, I'll point out fhat what's already been done to our economy is likely worse than what climate change would do over decades. In fact, being a northern landlocked province it's entirely possible that we would benefit from moderate warming.
So you're saying this Trump meme is really going to resonate with Albertans. Ok. I guess.
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Old 12-23-2019, 03:25 AM
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Except farmers are literally holding large-scale conventions on how to deal with climate change and its effects.
That's a fascinating article, and a hopeful one.But note the enormous difference in the politics and the tone of discussion:
The convention described in that article was all about intelligent discussion of practical issues that farmers can do now--better ways to till the soil, planting more ground-cover crops off season.

There was ZERO talk about the things that Democrats and big-city elites love to declare: the green New Deal, laying off millions of workers, and proudly decimating rural communities.

The Dems need to pay attention; To win back the flyover voters, they need to change their tone dramatically. With the rhetoric they are using now, they are just providing fertile ground for Trump's fear-mongering.

Last edited by chappachula; 12-23-2019 at 03:25 AM.
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Old 12-23-2019, 09:02 AM
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Straight out of David Duke's playbook.

The Nationalist's Delusion


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Dukeís rejoinder to the ads framing him as a racist resonated with his supporters. ďRemember,Ē he told them at rallies, ďwhen they smear me, they are really smearing you.Ē
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Old 12-23-2019, 09:04 AM
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There was ZERO talk about the things that Democrats and big-city elites love to declare: the green New Deal, laying off millions of workers, and proudly decimating rural communities.
LOL. Which Dems are declaring that they would proudly decimate rural communities? Got a quote for this nonsense?
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Old 12-23-2019, 09:15 AM
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The counter to that, which of course can not be demonstrated until after THEY get Trump, is: Look- They got Trump, seemed satisfied, and never did come for you after all.
Reality doesn't matter to conservatives because conservatism isn't a con game, it's a conspiracy theory centered around narcissistic persecution fantasies.

Conspiracy theories live and grow because evidence against them becomes part of the theory. i.e. "The court convicted Trump? THIS GOES HIGHER THAN WE THOUGHT!"

Persecution fantasies live and grow because there's literally nothing too small to use as evidence of persecution. "They took muh plastic straws! Incandescent light bulbs! Muh dirty coal!"

And of course cultural narcissism thrives on ridicule. There's literally nothing too small not to act aggrieved about. "That mean lady said Trump can't give his son a title of nobility! White genocide!"

Nothing can dislodge this kind of cognitive malware except for exposing the entire house of cards for what it is. That's the most important task for this country right now. Even more than impeachment and removal... we have to expose Trump for what we know him to be, a bankrupt mobster with the intellect of a baboon and the temperament of an infant, running an elaborate international criminal grift for his own family's gain, exposed by the smart woman currently in charge of the House.

Even that won't be enough to persuade some people. We have many in this country who believe they have a right to white power administered by a white royal family. We can't reach them all but we have to try.
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Old 12-23-2019, 09:18 AM
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New York Post just ran an article on what the OP is talking about:

https://nypost.com/2019/12/21/donald...rce=reddit.com
Always interesting to see what the world looks like through MAGA goggles. What a piece of crap article. If it wasn't for the decent grammar, I'd think Donald wrote it.

Slogan schmogan. Donald hasn't won over very many votes with his performance over his 3 year reign of error. Chances are, if you voted for Hillary in 2016 you found nothing over these 3 years to change your mind and vote for him in 2020. I don't see the Democratic vote decreasing in 2020. Certainly Biden will improve on Hillary's numbers, particularly in places like PA, WI, and MI. Some of the Donald 2016 voters were those who voted on a lark, thinking they were voting for a clown, not a monster. So the MAGA cult has a slogan that feeds into their persona of perpetual victimhood. The MAGA cult votes. The MAGA cult ALWAYS vote. They ALWAYS vote red. Meanwhile, demographics chip away at their numbers. Some MAGAbots died since 2016. I don't think there are enough new MAGA recruits to match the losses due to attrition. This slogan crap isn't going to be enough.
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Old 12-23-2019, 09:31 AM
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Still, that is a darn fine slogan. I think it will work.
It's... pretty damn fashy, I'll give it that.

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Originally Posted by Little Nemo
I would have gone with "I'm not Donald. I'm his identical twin brother Daniel Trump. I'm the good one."

It's a long shot but I think it's the best one for avoiding Trump's biggest liability.
OK, this one's gold. He'd have to grow a goatee though.
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Old 12-23-2019, 09:36 AM
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Reality doesn't matter to conservatives because conservatism isn't a con game, it's a conspiracy theory centered around narcissistic persecution fantasies.
How shockingly disrespectful to a whole slew of Americans who we disagree with, and whose votes we need.
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Old 12-23-2019, 09:40 AM
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I think the dems would be smart to showcase something that would actually help people in places like where I am from. They don't trust dems for a good reason - shit didn't go well for them when Obama was president. Was it Obama's fault? Not really, the mechanization of the agricultural sector has been going on for years and years, but the hammer in the nail was automation. Automation wasn't political at all, it was and is natural evolution of capitalism. Automation has displaced a lot of people in these rural areas that seem to matter for the electoral college. Dems can't come out with "job training" because that is absolute bullshit to these people. Job training means to these people "I am going to lose my house and have to move into the city and live in some shit apartment and barely scrape by on some McJob that has no future." They are seeing housing prices skyrocket, even in rural areas as the rich are desperate to buy any real estate they can to park their profits in a tax shelter. When their neighbor's house and land suddenly is getting sold for dollars on the penny, it causes their own taxes to jump up and price them out of their family home.

I keep telling Dem politicians that speak to me that they would have all elections locked down if they could do something about this that is meaningful. Fuck health care, fuck everything else. Get these people working in a stable job that tracks with the costs of living. Limit the amount of property rich people can park their profits in, fucking the little guy, and destabilizing housing prices. Shut down "property management companies" that merely collect rent for a landlord, but in doing so, increase the prices and requirements for these housing units.

I have spoke of this in another thread, but I'll repeat here: I am the guy coming along and shutting down agricultural production facilities and automating them. I put at least 20 people out of work a month in these distressed areas so the businesses that they used to work for can stay open and compete with China. I talk with these people every day. They don't care about Russia, or criminal phone calls, or withheld tax returns. They do not care if a criminal is in the white house. It doesn't matter. Hope and Change for these people meant skyrocketing housing prices, opioid epidemics, and automation layoffs. They send jobs out of the country because its cheaper than robots for a while. Then they take that plant in Mexico or wherever and automate it there.

It seems like some evil sinister plan to these people, but it isn't. Dems want to blame the people at the top of these companies, but I get to stay and tend the robots as their bosses weep in a corner of the facility after they have had to lay off the workforce. I had one of these evil bosses literally cry on my shoulder and tell me that she was surely going to hell because they had to lay off these people to keep the businesses open. I didn't have the heart to tell her that her business was toast anyway, it would be bought for dirt by the Large Friendly Agricorp Conglomerate anyway, she just pushed it off a few years.

Dems will not win without a solid plan. At least the Republicans bitch about it like it is to these people. They know Trump is garbage. The religious will vote however their preacher tells them too, but I have news for you guys, there really aren't that many super religious people as it seems like there is. You might not be able to get the religious to vote how you want or need, but you can convince the guy getting screwed every day that their might be a better way.
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Old 12-23-2019, 10:14 AM
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You want a message that resonates with farmers? How about "I'll end the trade war with China, so they'll buy our produce again"?

Not that it matters. There are no farmers any more, or at least, not enough to be relevant. When people hear "farmer", they think of hardworking individuals, personally working the land that's been in their family for generations. But nowadays, most farmland is owned by megacorporations, and worked mostly by immigrants.
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Old 12-23-2019, 10:23 AM
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They don't trust dems for a good reason - shit didn't go well for them when Obama was president.
What didn't go well? Getting health care to those who didn't have it?

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Fuck health care, fuck everything else. Get these people working in a stable job that tracks with the costs of living.
Health care has consistently been at or near the top of nearly every demographic's issues of concern.

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but you can convince the guy getting screwed every day that their might be a better way
And the party that has spent over 80 years fighting Social Security and over 50 years fighting Medicare is going to stand up for the little guy. Right.
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Old 12-23-2019, 11:28 AM
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What didn't go well? Getting health care to those who didn't have it?


Health care has consistently been at or near the top of nearly every demographic's issues of concern.



And the party that has spent over 80 years fighting Social Security and over 50 years fighting Medicare is going to stand up for the little guy. Right.
Obamacare didn't do shit for people where I grew up. It was great in states that played along, but a lot of these states that you need to win the EC didn't play along. The ACA forced people to buy shit they couldn't afford, or pay a fine because they couldn't afford it. This is how they remember the ACA. A lot of their employers dropped their insurance, and when the lot of them got laid off, they lost it.

Yeah, I get it, ACA did great things, but I had to move across the country to reap the benefits of the ACA for my family. I had credit cards to do it, most of these folks don't.

I don't think you can win them all, but you can win the folks that I am talking about. Do health care or whatever, but nobody has the confidence you can pull it off. If you can keep them in their home, you will get their vote.
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Old 12-23-2019, 11:33 AM
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Trump's winning strategy is to plagiarise from Narendra Modi ?
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Old 12-23-2019, 11:43 AM
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How shockingly disrespectful to a whole slew of Americans who we disagree with, and whose votes we need.
You're the OP who suggested they're going to fall for Trump's childish and paranoid ad; I only provided the analysis.

It's impossible to disrespect the intellect of people who reject the value of intellect. It's impossible to deplore people who proudly declare themselves deplorable. It's impossible to reach people who don't want to be reached.
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Old 12-23-2019, 11:46 AM
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You want a message that resonates with farmers? How about "I'll end the trade war with China, so they'll buy our produce again"?

Not that it matters. There are no farmers any more, or at least, not enough to be relevant. When people hear "farmer", they think of hardworking individuals, personally working the land that's been in their family for generations. But nowadays, most farmland is owned by megacorporations, and worked mostly by immigrants.
You are right. There are very few actual farmers anymore, there are people who work in the ag industry and peripherally to it. The guy that does the books for the implement company down the street, and his wife that works as a waitress at the breakfast and lunch place the laborers and lot managers eat at, that type of stuff. Thats what made up my hometown. When the agricorp took it over, the amount of laborers paid cash dropped way way down. When we were kids in the 1990s, there were tons of farm jobs that paid pretty good. I remember us having more money than the teenagers that worked in town somewhere. The machines are way better than they were, and the kids in town don't have those jobs anymore. They sell meth and stuff now.
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Old 12-23-2019, 01:17 PM
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Quoth Translucent Daydream:

Obamacare didn't do shit for people where I grew up. It was great in states that played along, but a lot of these states that you need to win the EC didn't play along.
But the thing is, any program the Democrats come up with to help people in those states, the Republicans in those states will be able to similarly sabotage. You can't say "do what the people are actually asking for", when we're already doing that. The lesson here should be to throw out those bums in the statehouse who are stopping you from getting what's coming to you.
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Old 12-23-2019, 01:25 PM
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How shockingly disrespectful to a whole slew of Americans who we disagree with, and whose votes we need.
Could you show us how to kiss up to those who openly hate us, please?
BTW, does the disrespect, lies and hatred from the Republican side of the aisle ever shock you?
  #34  
Old 12-23-2019, 01:43 PM
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But the thing is, any program the Democrats come up with to help people in those states, the Republicans in those states will be able to similarly sabotage. You can't say "do what the people are actually asking for", when we're already doing that. The lesson here should be to throw out those bums in the statehouse who are stopping you from getting what's coming to you.
That's the problem, isn't it? It's not that Dems are ignoring the plight of those in poorer areas, including the rural parts of the country. It's that they are proposing real solutions, which have the problem that is often seen with reality - it's messy.

Compare that to people who simply make easy promises with no real effort - "You like how things used to be? Vote for me and I'll bring back that society with those jobs you remember." And when pie in the sky promises don't work? "The problem is *those* people"
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Old 12-23-2019, 02:16 PM
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Obamacare didn't do shit for people where I grew up. It was great in states that played along, but a lot of these states that you need to win the EC didn't play along.
So you're saying that where people that actually implemented the ACA, it worked, and where states refused, it sucked?

Why exactly are we blaming the ACA, when even you admit that it worked when implemented?

Last edited by Chisquirrel; 12-23-2019 at 02:17 PM. Reason: Changed a nut
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Old 12-23-2019, 02:28 PM
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So you're saying that where people that actually implemented the ACA, it worked, and where states refused, it sucked?

Why exactly are we blaming the ACA, when even you admit that it worked when implemented?
That's it-A helping hand cannot help when it is slapped away.
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Old 12-23-2019, 05:33 PM
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I think thatís a pretty damn good slogan. Ten times better than MAGA, honestly.

Trumpís re-election strategy is about mobilizing the 92% of Republicans who either think heís God or donít have the guts to break with him no matter what he does.

The Democratic candidateís strategy runs though getting the 70% of Dems who would prefer a third Obama term, the 25% who now regard Obama as a liberal sellout, and the 30% of Dems who only vote if they have to. (Overlapping math obviously.)
  #38  
Old 12-23-2019, 05:52 PM
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So you're saying that where people that actually implemented the ACA, it worked, and where states refused, it sucked?

Why exactly are we blaming the ACA, when even you admit that it worked when implemented?
I'm not at all. I moved specifically so the ACA could protect my wife. But that is the problem, Chronos and you nailed it. That is also the hill that anyone is going to have to climb over to convince these people to vote differently.

So whats the plan for that? Pointing out the obvious to these people hasn't been working. You need these people to win. Whats the plan? The democratic hopefuls for the state and federal congress people I have spoken to in the past three years have yet to formulate a plan for this. If they could, I think their chances would be much much better.

ETA: I think that is why health care is a non-starter in this election. Absolutely, they need a damn plan on how to fix this health care mess, but why stab yourself with it right out the gate? Get elected first.
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Old 12-23-2019, 06:11 PM
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I don't think farmers and fishermen are worried as much about climate change than they are of the policies of a hostile government.
[...]
No one buys the 'green jobs' bullshit. And oil patch workers making big salaries would not be happy losing their high paying jobs in favor of installing weather stripping for $15/hr.
Fishermen in Alaska are quite concerned about climate change, they're seeing it first hand and it's affecting their livelihoods directly. It's one of the most pressing subjects in the hallways and public meetings where fisheries regulations are discussed. However, the political issue is that individual fishers (and fishing communities) are smart enough to know that if they're seeing the effects of climate on their fish now, things will get much worse before they get better, even if we were on track to make the drastic carbon cuts needed (which of course we aren't). And in Alaska, it's usual to subsist on a variety of seasonal incomes - and the other big one, with it's attached dividend, is oil.

So in Alaska it's not even "fishermen versus oil workers" because they're often the same people/families. In the fisheries, they're looking to the science/mitigation to figure out how to cope with the next 20 years, but it doesn't translate into political capital for supporting carbon reductions: while carbon cuts will help the far future (not directly, today), and oil will help them now.
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Old 12-23-2019, 07:58 PM
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It's impossible to disrespect the intellect of people who reject the value of intellect. It's impossible to deplore people who proudly declare themselves deplorable. It's impossible to reach people who don't want to be reached.

I am very sorry you have given up.
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Old 12-23-2019, 08:16 PM
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I am very sorry you have given up.
On Twitter today I noticed that the hashtag #cult45 is being used quite proudly by people who support Trump, instead of by people commenting on the nature of that support. There are a few of the latter here and there, but by and large this idea of being a cult has been enthusiastically adopted by the right.

No irony is involved; just the idea that being a member of a cult is a wonderful thing. How amenable to reasonable arguments would you suppose such people are?

Add to this the fact that some large proportion of those posting online---here; on other message boards; on Twitter; on Instagram; on YouTube; on Facebook, etc.---are being paid* to post pro-Trump messages. Clearly it's not much use to try to employ reason with someone whose livelihood depends on continuing to post defenses of Trump and attacks on his critics.

Throughout history some people have been certain that their views are correct and they are not remotely interested in any facts that might contradict those views.

On the other hand, there have always been other people who are willing to consider facts.

Part of wisdom is knowing the difference--and not wasting your time trying to persuade those who find facts offensive.





*
Quote:
The Biggest Social Media Operation Youíve Never Heard of Is Run Out of Cyprus by Russians
By Lisa Kaplan Wednesday, December 18, 2019, 2:00 PM

What the heck is TheSoul Publishing? Iím still honestly not sure.

Hereís what I do know: Measured in terms of views and subscribers, it had the third-largest reach of any group of entertainment channels on YouTube in Novemberóoutranked only by Disney and WarnerMedia. It is run by Russian nationals and based in and managed from Cyprus, with U.S. operations housed in a shared work space in New York. ...
https://www.lawfareblog.com/biggest-...yprus-russians
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Old 12-23-2019, 08:17 PM
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I am very sorry you have given up.
And I'm sure he's sorry that you live in denial of reality. But really, both your opinions as stated in this thread is thoughtless cynicism and not worth more of my time.

Last edited by CarnalK; 12-23-2019 at 08:20 PM.
  #43  
Old 12-23-2019, 08:25 PM
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Politics involve working with people you do not like to win elections and establish policy. Some seem to have hands too clean to be involved in this rough art of the possible.
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  #44  
Old 12-23-2019, 08:58 PM
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It also involves having a fucking clue as to what is possible. I'm not sure you're the man for the job.
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Old 12-23-2019, 09:21 PM
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Whatever. Have a swell day.
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Old 12-23-2019, 10:10 PM
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I am very sorry you have given up.
No, you aren't. Your OP is you arguing that Trump's winning is a fait acompli--that he has already won because of this one "slogan" (which sure looks like a meme to me, not a slogan). You can't have a problem with people giving up when that is literally what you do in your OP.

On the other hand, the person you are responding to still has hope that Trump won't win--they haven't given up. They are simply saying that the people who would be convinced by this slogan are not the target audience.

You are projecting the thing you did in the OP onto others who are doing the exact opposite. You are the one who thinks that this slogan means Trump will win.
  #47  
Old 12-23-2019, 10:14 PM
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Speaking of the above: why is this being called a slogan? It very clearly looks like a meme, with the Impact font and everything. It has not been put out by the Trump administration. It's a post by some rando made 3 months ago, and that I at least have not noticed actually in use, despite running into Trump supporters all the time.

If I actually see this meme being used to defend Trump, then I'll worry. For now, I'm going to not make a big deal out of it, as outrage is part of what makes memes spread so well.

Right now, I don't think anyone believes this who isn't already a Trump supporter.
  #48  
Old 12-23-2019, 11:48 PM
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Speaking of the above: why is this being called a slogan?
I must be a dreadful disappointment to you.



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Right now, I don't think anyone believes this who isn't already a Trump supporter.
Yes. This is a slogan, or meme if you prefer, that would, if widely used, encourage Trump voters to stay in that camp and go to the polls.
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Old 12-24-2019, 01:59 PM
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I'm not at all. I moved specifically so the ACA could protect my wife. But that is the problem, Chronos and you nailed it. That is also the hill that anyone is going to have to climb over to convince these people to vote differently.

So whats the plan for that? Pointing out the obvious to these people hasn't been working. You need these people to win. Whats the plan? The democratic hopefuls for the state and federal congress people I have spoken to in the past three years have yet to formulate a plan for this. If they could, I think their chances would be much much better.

ETA: I think that is why health care is a non-starter in this election. Absolutely, they need a damn plan on how to fix this health care mess, but why stab yourself with it right out the gate? Get elected first.
Ron White said it best. "You can't fix stupid." When farms are going bankrupt at a breakneck pace and farmers say, "I'm still gonna vote for Trump!", you're dealing with stupid. When evangelical Christians look at everything Trump says and does being antithetical to their stated beliefs and still shout, "I'M GONNA VOTE FOR TRUMP!", you're dealing with hypocritical stupid. When you have the common clay of the West ignoring Republicans gutting the social safety net in order to give the CEOs of the company a massive tax break, then finding out there's no help for them when said CEO fires them for even greater profit margin, only to spend their last $5 for a MADE IN CHINA "TRUMP 2020" bumper sticker...well, you get the point.

I refuse to cater to the dumbest common denominator for public policy. It's Idiocracy writ large.
  #50  
Old 12-24-2019, 03:31 PM
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Ron White said it best. "You can't fix stupid." When farms are going bankrupt at a breakneck pace and farmers say, "I'm still gonna vote for Trump!", you're dealing with stupid. When evangelical Christians look at everything Trump says and does being antithetical to their stated beliefs and still shout, "I'M GONNA VOTE FOR TRUMP!", you're dealing with hypocritical stupid. When you have the common clay of the West ignoring Republicans gutting the social safety net in order to give the CEOs of the company a massive tax break, then finding out there's no help for them when said CEO fires them for even greater profit margin, only to spend their last $5 for a MADE IN CHINA "TRUMP 2020" bumper sticker...well, you get the point.

I refuse to cater to the dumbest common denominator for public policy. It's Idiocracy writ large.
Dehumanizing people isnít the answer. Having an actual solution to their problem that doesnít fit the ďfuck emĒ narrative that they are being told your side has just pushes them away. This is how Trump is re-elected as far as I can tell.
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