Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 07-21-2019, 10:12 AM
QuickSilver is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,571
Pinot is a man possessed. But is GT finally finding his legs? Pleased to see Valverde doing well today.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.

Last edited by QuickSilver; 07-21-2019 at 10:13 AM.
  #52  
Old 07-21-2019, 10:25 AM
drm is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,434
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
Pinot is a man possessed. But is GT finally finding his legs? Pleased to see Valverde doing well today.
The last two years notwithstanding, Pinot has historically been one of the better climbers in the final week. We shall see.

Should be good!
  #53  
Old 07-21-2019, 10:39 AM
QuickSilver is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,571
Clue about Rohan Dennis abandoning the race:

Quote:
"To this day, there are times when I think 'what the hell am I doing?'," Dennis said. "In 2018 I reckon there were half a dozen times when I thought 'I could quit Ė right nowí and January last year was the big one ... I did not want to race my bike ever again. I was over this sport. But after a while you snap out of it and maybe itís a bit of a depressed period, for a week or something, then you realise why you like it again. I have these little periods when things arenít going well, across the board, sometimes itís a bit tough. Itís the same with every job ... youíre bashing your head against the wall, 'what am I doing? what am I doing?í Eventually that wall shows a crack and youíre 'thatís why Iím doing ití, but I still go through those periods."
Hell of a thing.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #54  
Old 07-21-2019, 02:41 PM
Gorsnak is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Saskaboom
Posts: 9,305
What we learned today:

Julian Alaphilippe probably can't hang on. He made it through one mountain stage, and most of a second. Now he has three days to recover, but following that are three big days in the Alps. I expect he'll probably do fine the first day, but struggle the next and outright crack on stage 20. I hope I'm wrong.

G's in better shape than yesterday suggested, but not in the same form as Pinot, Bernal, and Buchmann.

Pinot has been consistently the strongest climber, but has expended the most energy of anyone outside of Alaphilippe the last couple days.

I'd write Pinot in as a clear favourite at this point except for the worry that he's spent too much energy, and his history of collapsing under pressure (see stage 20 of last year's Giro). I'll still make him my outright favourite at this point, with a dead heat right behind between G, Kruijswijk, Bernal, and Buchmann. I don't know how to pick between these guys. G has experience and the mental game, but obviously can't go with Pinot and Bernal on the hardest slopes if anyone attacks. Kruijswijk has experience, probably the best team support, but also seems to be lacking in explosiveness. Still, the climbs in the Alps tend to be longer, steadier affairs than the goat paths in the Pyrenees. Bernal and Buchmann look the most likely to respond to Pinot's attacks, but they're both young and inexperienced. Buchmann's best career results are 12th in the Vuelta, and 3rd in a couple week-long stage races (including this year's Criterium du Dauphine, mind you). Buchmann also has very little team support, since Bora is primarily built to deliver Sagan to stage wins. But with just 39 seconds between 2nd and 6th, you really can't rule out anyone.

I love that we have no idea who's going to win this thing going in to the last week, though. We haven't had that sort of suspense for a good long while.
  #55  
Old 07-22-2019, 07:47 AM
Busy Scissors is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The Euston Tavern
Posts: 2,858
Forecast to be hot as balls later this week in the Alps - pushing 40 deg, just to add to the punishment of three brutal days Thurs, Fri and Sat.

I'm camping in the Alps next week as it goes and it's a bit hot for me. Prefer road cycling in the heat but the kids are too young for Alpine roadying, so we'll prob take the mountain bikes.
  #56  
Old 07-22-2019, 03:12 PM
Telemark's Avatar
Telemark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Yet again, Titletown
Posts: 22,763
I'm in the Alps now, headed over to the final mountain stages in two days. The heat is pretty brutal for hiking, can't imagine what it will be like for the mountain stages.
  #57  
Old 07-23-2019, 06:57 AM
QuickSilver is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,571
So what's the plan? Just pitch a tent on the side of a mountain, surrounded by several thousand of your closest new friends? I've wondered about the logistics and environmental impact (and the sanity, tbh ) of all those people gathered in one place several days ahead just waiting for a glimpse of the passing peloton.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #58  
Old 07-23-2019, 03:52 PM
Telemark's Avatar
Telemark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Yet again, Titletown
Posts: 22,763
We're staying in Val Thorens, right next to the course and near the finish. We'll have no problem seeing the riders during stage 20.
  #59  
Old 07-25-2019, 04:07 PM
Busy Scissors is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The Euston Tavern
Posts: 2,858
Only caught the highlights today so didn't really get the rhythm of the stage, but Alaphilippe was on by his absolute fingernails over the Galibier there, descent made all the difference.
I think with him on the verge of properly cracking there the GC guys must not really trust their legs to go really deep, or they would have blown him up earlier. Think he has to crack tomorrow, with no final descent, but he's a very hard man to be leading this deep in the race - would love to see him defy the odds.

Would hate to be a Quintana fan - rides like an absolute champion, when there is nothing really on the line, ergo he is not a champion. Still good to see him show his class - threw in an absolutely savage dig on the Galibier to take charge.

A lot of grumbling online about Rowe and Martin getting ejected yesterday - big overreaction, others have done far worse without censure, obv this punishment would never happen in a million years to the FDJ or QS road captains etc etc. I'm not so sure myself - I'm OK with the directeur taking a zero tolerance line with this sort of chopping people up, pushing and shoving bullshit in the peloton. It's a dangerous sport and there has to be a lot of trust amongst the riders in the group formation. Problem is it's hard to hand out a yellow card to these two riders as you can't give them a meaningful time penalty. Cash fine I suppose could work.
  #60  
Old 07-26-2019, 06:46 AM
QuickSilver is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,571
Thing about Quintana was that Movistar really didn't want him on the podium and are going to do everything they can to make sure that doesn't happen. Not sure who got the bigger F.U., but something tells me that the team owner does not want to pay Quintana a bonus before he leaves the team. What's that team dynamic like right now?
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #61  
Old 07-26-2019, 08:43 AM
drm is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,434
Pinot had a muscle tear in his leg and was forced to abandon. Huge bummer. Now I fear we are headed to a team Ineos 1/2. I hope Iím wrong and that one of the others attacks, but we shall see.
  #62  
Old 07-26-2019, 09:33 AM
QuickSilver is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,571
Bernal looks strong and GT looks to be fighting for second place finish. Alaphillipe is at his limit and losing time but still in yellow. NQ is yo-yo-ing off the back.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #63  
Old 07-26-2019, 09:51 AM
Gorsnak is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Saskaboom
Posts: 9,305
Well this is just bizarre. I've seen stages shortened due to weather conditions, but I've never seen a stage stopped with times taken at a point the riders have already passed. Congratulations to Egan Bernal, I guess, because I can't see anyone taking time on him tomorrow.
  #64  
Old 07-26-2019, 09:57 AM
Busy Scissors is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The Euston Tavern
Posts: 2,858
Wow - what a scene.

Hailstorm did look crazy, mind, anyone know where exactly it is? Must be hard for the riders to take but it could be terribly hazardous if they'd steamed into an icy road.

Last edited by Busy Scissors; 07-26-2019 at 09:58 AM.
  #65  
Old 07-26-2019, 09:58 AM
Telemark's Avatar
Telemark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Yet again, Titletown
Posts: 22,763
And I'm pretty sure team Ineos is at our hotel. Could be fun.
  #66  
Old 07-26-2019, 11:21 AM
QuickSilver is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,571
Sweet. Make sure to say hello for us.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #67  
Old 07-26-2019, 11:23 AM
Gray Ghost is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Scissors View Post
Wow - what a scene.

Hailstorm did look crazy, mind, anyone know where exactly it is? Must be hard for the riders to take but it could be terribly hazardous if they'd steamed into an icy road.
This tweet from ProCyclingStats purports to show a mudslide across the route the riders would have been taking. https://twitter.com/ProCyclingStats/...603072/photo/1

I have no idea if the pics (and video in the comment stream from the tweet) are even in France, but if that really was across the route, that would have been gruesome.

I've never heard of this happening before.
  #68  
Old 07-26-2019, 11:24 AM
QuickSilver is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,571
BTW, did not know crying was allowed in pro cycling (looking at you, Pinot).

j/k... must be crushing blow having come so close.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #69  
Old 07-26-2019, 11:26 AM
QuickSilver is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost View Post
This tweet from ProCyclingStats purports to show a mudslide across the route the riders would have been taking. https://twitter.com/ProCyclingStats/...603072/photo/1

I have no idea if the pics (and video in the comment stream from the tweet) are even in France, but if that really was across the route, that would have been gruesome.

I've never heard of this happening before.
Cyclo-cross guys call that: race day.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #70  
Old 07-26-2019, 12:55 PM
Gorsnak is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Saskaboom
Posts: 9,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost View Post
This tweet from ProCyclingStats purports to show a mudslide across the route the riders would have been taking. https://twitter.com/ProCyclingStats/...603072/photo/1

I have no idea if the pics (and video in the comment stream from the tweet) are even in France, but if that really was across the route, that would have been gruesome.

I've never heard of this happening before.
That matches a picture of the same scene from a different angle tweeted by Team Deceuninck-Quickstep, so I'd say it's legit.
  #71  
Old 07-26-2019, 02:18 PM
Telemark's Avatar
Telemark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Yet again, Titletown
Posts: 22,763
It was shown on the race broadcast here in France.
  #72  
Old 07-27-2019, 02:04 PM
Busy Scissors is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The Euston Tavern
Posts: 2,858
Well done to Egan Bernal - first S American rider to win Le Tour. Shame about the weather disruption at the end, but still one of the best races in years. A lot of what ifs with yesterday's stage, but reckon Bernal would be most people's pick as the strongest rider in the race.

World class climber, strong time trialist (and will get even better), will attack and animate the race, riding for the strongest, deepest GT team - and he's 22yo! Likely the first of many.

J Ala prob the man of the race - what a performance. I wonder if he can contest the GC going forward or if this was a one-off, super emotional ride from him? He was throwing wild efforts in week one whilst the rest of the GC guys were chilling in the peloton [plus smashing the classics earlier this year whilst Ineos were still in bed], and he still hung in there through the mountains near enough. Killed the time trial.
Maybe on a different team with more of a TdF focus.
  #73  
Old 07-27-2019, 02:29 PM
QuickSilver is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,571
Agreed. A nail biter until the end.

So, Telemark... tell us about what you were able to see? I hope the last 24 hours didn't spoil your views.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #74  
Old 07-27-2019, 04:34 PM
Telemark's Avatar
Telemark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Yet again, Titletown
Posts: 22,763
We went out around 11 and promptly got caught in a horrific thunderstorm. After 30 minutes we retreated to our hotel, dried out, ate, and went out better prepared. The rain had stopped and we found a spot 100 meters from the finish, right where the Continental barricades give way to the E.Leclerc ones. You can see our hands banging on the panels as the lead riders go by.

Huge roar from the crowd for Alaphilippe who looked spent. The Colombians were everywhere and partying up a storm. Sagan did a wheelie across the finish line, high fiving fans along the way. We stayed for the presentations, and the were 5 feet from all the jersey winners as they exited the press tent.

Back at the hotel we saw Team Ineos and Astana riders come in and head to their rooms and later come down for dinner. Bernal and a few others stopped to sigh an autograph for the hotel owner's grandson and he took a picture with him. We stopped in at the bar after dinner and briefly saw Bernal and his wife again.

A wicked fun day!
  #75  
Old 07-28-2019, 10:05 AM
Gorsnak is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Saskaboom
Posts: 9,305
I'm left feeling like this race fizzled a bit. It was, up until stage 18, the best Tour since at least 2011, but between Pinot pulling up lame and Bernal not being tested on that long, long drag down to the final climb on Friday, and then what ended up being a rather boring single climb yesterday I feel like we've been cheated out of quite a lot of drama. Bernal may very well have won anyways. He was certainly the strongest on Thursday, though apparently Pinot's injury was already affecting him then. But it just feels like a bit of a damp squib in the end. Now we'll see which of Ewan, Viviani, and Groenewegen can win in Paris, and that will be that. Sagan will collect a jersey that may as well have be awarded to him for showing up at the race, and Bardet will get polka dots based on a single breakaway. Bit weird, that last, given how atrociously he rode the race. And that's a wrap.
  #76  
Old 07-28-2019, 10:16 AM
QuickSilver is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
A wicked fun day!
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #77  
Old 07-28-2019, 10:22 AM
QuickSilver is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorsnak View Post
I'm left feeling like this race fizzled a bit. It was, up until stage 18, the best Tour since at least 2011, but between Pinot pulling up lame and Bernal not being tested on that long, long drag down to the final climb on Friday, and then what ended up being a rather boring single climb yesterday I feel like we've been cheated out of quite a lot of drama. Bernal may very well have won anyways. He was certainly the strongest on Thursday, though apparently Pinot's injury was already affecting him then. But it just feels like a bit of a damp squib in the end. Now we'll see which of Ewan, Viviani, and Groenewegen can win in Paris, and that will be that. Sagan will collect a jersey that may as well have be awarded to him for showing up at the race, and Bardet will get polka dots based on a single breakaway. Bit weird, that last, given how atrociously he rode the race. And that's a wrap.
Yeah, I felt like Bernal could have ridden more aggressively yesterday. Instead he chose the more cautious win. I feel slightly differently upon reflection. He knew that he won the race when it was certain that JA was not up to the task of taking the jersey back. Why add insult to injury by attacking hard and subsequently embarrassing your own team mate, GT, by dropping him as well. I think EB did the sportsman like thing.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #78  
Old 07-28-2019, 10:47 AM
Gorsnak is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Saskaboom
Posts: 9,305
Bernal's ride yesterday was fine. In his position, riding defensively was absolutely the correct tactical call. He didn't need to attack - he just needed to respond to attacks by Alaphilippe, Kruijswijk, or Buchman. Alaphilippe didn't have any gas left in the tank, and Buchman was in "just happy to be in the top 5" mode. That leaves Kruijswijk, and Jumbo Visma looked like it was going to try something. George Bennett had an absolutely monster ride, and de Plus did very well too. And when de Plus pulled off, Kruijswijk should have attacked. But he didn't. Maybe he was just on his limit, but honestly I can't remember a single attack by him for the entire race. I think realistically he didn't have any chance of putting enough time into Bernal for it to matter, but he didn't even try to pick up the dozen or so seconds it would have taken to pass G for second. So it would seem the only point of Jumbo Visma drilling it at the front of the peleton was to officially bury Alaphilippe. Riding for 3rd just isn't very exciting. That said, Jumbo Visma's tour was pretty damn impressive, with 3 stage wins and a podium.
  #79  
Old 07-28-2019, 12:43 PM
N9IWP is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Southeast MN
Posts: 6,274
What stage does NBC broadcast OTA? The final, boring, parade into Paris. Hope they at least show highlights. (I rather liked it when they had a 1 hour summary show)
Yes, other stuff is available online, but I like the no effort f couch watching.

Brian

Last edited by N9IWP; 07-28-2019 at 12:43 PM.
  #80  
Old 07-28-2019, 02:53 PM
QuickSilver is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,571
Not sure what you mean. The race was televised on MBCSN. Mornings and evenings.



Caleb Ewen is a brilliant sprinter. Well done all and thanks for the exciting tour.

ņ la prochaine fois!
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.

Last edited by QuickSilver; 07-28-2019 at 02:55 PM.
  #81  
Old 07-28-2019, 03:02 PM
N9IWP is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Southeast MN
Posts: 6,274
OTA = over the air (I don't have cable).
Brian
  #82  
Old 07-29-2019, 06:48 AM
Telemark's Avatar
Telemark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Yet again, Titletown
Posts: 22,763
https://youtu.be/y7TwTiW5HG4?t=530

We come on the screen at 9:00, pounding on the barricades at the transition between the yellow Continental and whtle E.Leclerc signs. Those are my wife's hands under the NBC logo, wearing grey gloves, red shirt with a king of the hill polka dot jersey on top of it. You can see us in shots for the next 30 seconds or so, especially as Bernal is coming to the finish line.

Last edited by Telemark; 07-29-2019 at 06:48 AM.
  #83  
Old 07-29-2019, 07:05 AM
polar bear is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorsnak View Post
Bernal's ride yesterday was fine. In his position, riding defensively was absolutely the correct tactical call. He didn't need to attack - he just needed to respond to attacks by Alaphilippe, Kruijswijk, or Buchman. Alaphilippe didn't have any gas left in the tank, and Buchman was in "just happy to be in the top 5" mode. That leaves Kruijswijk, and Jumbo Visma looked like it was going to try something. George Bennett had an absolutely monster ride, and de Plus did very well too. And when de Plus pulled off, Kruijswijk should have attacked. But he didn't. Maybe he was just on his limit, but honestly I can't remember a single attack by him for the entire race. I think realistically he didn't have any chance of putting enough time into Bernal for it to matter, but he didn't even try to pick up the dozen or so seconds it would have taken to pass G for second. So it would seem the only point of Jumbo Visma drilling it at the front of the peleton was to officially bury Alaphilippe. Riding for 3rd just isn't very exciting. That said, Jumbo Visma's tour was pretty damn impressive, with 3 stage wins and a podium.
It was 4 stage wins (team time trial and 3 sprint stages). I also think you're a bit hard on Jumbo (where it was De Plus with the monster ride and Bennett doing the best he could after a couple of crashes). Ineos still had Poels there to bring back any attack on Thomas and Bernal, just like he did the previous day when Kruiswerk attacked at half power (because he was saving energy for the last climb that never happened). Neither Bernal, nor Thomas showed any signs of weakness during that stage and Buchman had been "like a shadow" thoughout the mountain stages according to Kruiswijk. The main goal was to finish off Alaphilipe, and get a podium and not yet another 4th place for Kruiswijk.
  #84  
Old 07-29-2019, 08:16 AM
Dead Cat is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 4,154
Just a quick note to say thanks to everyone in this thread for the commentary, I don't follow cycling closely enough to enjoy/appreciate the racing but I really enjoy following it through this thread.
  #85  
Old 07-29-2019, 08:35 AM
Gorsnak is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Saskaboom
Posts: 9,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by polar bear View Post
It was 4 stage wins (team time trial and 3 sprint stages). I also think you're a bit hard on Jumbo (where it was De Plus with the monster ride and Bennett doing the best he could after a couple of crashes). Ineos still had Poels there to bring back any attack on Thomas and Bernal, just like he did the previous day when Kruiswerk attacked at half power (because he was saving energy for the last climb that never happened). Neither Bernal, nor Thomas showed any signs of weakness during that stage and Buchman had been "like a shadow" thoughout the mountain stages according to Kruiswijk. The main goal was to finish off Alaphilipe, and get a podium and not yet another 4th place for Kruiswijk.
Oops. Forgot about Wout's win. And yeah, I'm being a bit hard on them, but I'd just really like to see a competitive Tour. If one takes Alaphilippe's alpine time losses to be inevitable, then the only person who actually contested an Ineos win was Thibault Pinot. Nobody else within shouting distance in the GC made a single real attack in the mountains. Seeing Kruijswijk's comments after the finish, I think I've underestimated how much being on the podium meant to him. I can't really fault him for that, given his history at grand tour. But goddamit, I really want to see some other team win this race once or twice a decade.
  #86  
Old 07-29-2019, 11:23 AM
QuickSilver is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorsnak View Post
But goddamit, I really want to see some other team win this race once or twice a decade.
InEOS has never won before and won it their first year in the tour with two podium spots. Honestly, quit your carping.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #87  
Old 07-29-2019, 12:43 PM
Telemark's Avatar
Telemark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Yet again, Titletown
Posts: 22,763
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
InEOS has never won before and won it their first year in the tour with two podium spots. Honestly, quit your carping.
We were staying at the same hotel as team InEOS after stage 20 and several of the crew were wearing Sky branded gear.
  #88  
Old 07-29-2019, 02:03 PM
QuickSilver is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,571
I don't blame them. Much nicer looking kit than InEOS.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #89  
Old 07-29-2019, 02:12 PM
Gorsnak is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Saskaboom
Posts: 9,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
InEOS has never won before and won it their first year in the tour with two podium spots. Honestly, quit your carping.
Next you'll be telling me that Indurain didn't ride for the same team as Valverde, or that Jumbo Visma isn't Rabobank.
  #90  
Old 07-29-2019, 02:21 PM
QuickSilver is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,571
Don't say nothin' bout Valverde. He's a team of ONE.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:32 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017