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Old 08-11-2019, 06:21 AM
TheMightyAtlas is offline
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The Dechambeau Affair


https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id...g-well-anybody

The golf world is all aTwitter with the issue of slow play, brought to a boil with some egregious examples from Bryson DeChambeau, a famously ponderous player. BDS has defended himself vigorously and attacked his critics.

Golfers and golf fans, what say you?
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Old 08-11-2019, 06:46 AM
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If I were a golfer I’d be infuriated, but as a golf watcher I don’t care. TV coverage jumps around so much and is so broken up with commercials that I’d expect them to edit out the delays and simply show the shot instead of wasting their limited broadcast time with endless nose picking and butt wiggling.
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Old 08-11-2019, 07:09 AM
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My golf game is so bad, it wouldn’t be materially impacted by a tornado tearing up the fairway while I’m teeing off.

But I’ve played competitive (low level) tennis for almost 40 years, and players doing two things hack me off. Slow to serve or get ready to receive serve. And endless obsession with “the science” of the game.
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Old 08-11-2019, 09:37 AM
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You'd think this would be easy to deal with: clearly specify what is deemed acceptable and consistently penalize violations. It's really hard to imagine slow players would not modify their behavior in the face of this.

That the problem instead seems to persist endlessly can only mean that the PGA is somehow happy with their "much talk; very little action" approach.
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Old 08-12-2019, 11:33 AM
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Unlike Team Pro Sports, pro golfers are self governed. They are not accountable to a team owner. The Commissioner works for the Players, the Players don't work him. The Commissioner's office does hand out punishment (fines, suspensions, conduct unbecoming, etc) but only because the players gives him the authority to do that. One Central authority etc.

As such, the Players make the rules. It is not in their overall interest to make policy that is going to penalize players. There has been blowback before by players. about 15 yrs ago, Rory Sabbatini famously finished out a hole why his fellow playing competitor (Ben Crane) was dilly dallying back in the fairway
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:25 PM
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I'd love to see the other two players in his threesome take a bullet in the following way:

- time his pre-shot routine
- announce to him the time e.g. "130 seconds"
- each of the other two players now take the same amount of time, e.g. 130 seconds

The threesome will fall about 4 holes behind, even the PGA officials will be forced to warn and penalize the group.

The point is to demonstrate that his slow play cannot be part of the game, and that he is not special - he seems to think that he can get away with it because the other players will play catch-up and the PGA won't do anything about it.
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:35 PM
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It's not usually in the overall interest, but there is going to be a reckoning at some point is something goes too far. The fact DeChambeau is being pilloried in public by other pros is proof he is going too far.

That said, peer pressure and criticism is, logically, the first step in correcting it, and it'll probably work eventually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by notfrommensa
Unlike Team Pro Sports, pro golfers are self governed. They are not accountable to a team owner. The Commissioner works for the Players, the Players don't work him.
This isn't really true. you are, I presume, referring to the PGA TOUR, which organizes most major tournaments. PGA TOUR is a not for profit that is essentially a cooperative enterprise between its management, players, sponsors, and charities. It doesn't have an owner, and so it is no more correct to say the Commissioner works for the players than it is to say the players work for him. If anything, they both work for the sponsors.
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Old 08-12-2019, 08:08 PM
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If the Commissioner is going to get "fired" (for lack of a better word), it will because the players want him gone, not the sponsors or charities.
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Old 08-12-2019, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notfrommensa View Post
If the Commissioner is going to get "fired" (for lack of a better word), it will because the players want him gone, not the sponsors or charities.
I disagree completely. The sponsors rule everything. If the sponsors drop out, the players DON'T GET PAID. Pretty sure that'll get their attention in a big damn hurry since the whole "pro" thing kinda requires getting paid.

Now, are the big golf companies gonna kick? A little, but not too much. Can't kill the goose after all.

But Rolex? NetJets? The various banks? They'll do the usual cost/benefit analysis and when cost comes up higher, they'll bail. And there go the multi-million $ paydays.

This is all talking about very low probability outcomes though. In reality, the sponsors/broadcasters will simply quietly let it be known that they'd prefer the pace of play picks up to quell the noise. And it will be made to happen. End of story.
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Old 08-12-2019, 09:11 PM
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The problem with bringing in slow play rules - and then enforcing them - is that it usually has the opposite effect and slows the game down for everyone.

Look at tennis. We used to have a couple of slow players who were a bit of a joke, but then the powers-that-be brought in the 'maximum time between points' rule (What is it - 25 seconds? Not sure).

Result - now EVERYBODY takes the full 25 seconds between points - every single time. Play the point, walk slowly back to the service line, ask ball-boy for towel (because of the huge sweat build-up caused by the last 5-second rally), check coach in stands, adjust shorts, look up at sun -'Yep, still there', think 'Why am I here? Oh, yeah , playing tennis', look at opponent - 'Oh, him!', bounce ball 5-6 times, stop bouncing and shuffle 2 mm along service line, bounce ball another 5-6 times, toss ball in air, catch ball because - I don't know, global warming, or the plight of the sea lions, or something - start routine again. Eventually, after about 45 seconds, the umpire may cough politely to hurry them up. (For comparison, just youtube some tennis from the 1960s).

I know nothing about NFL history, but I bet the 40-second rule between plays was introduced to prevent time-wasting. So now - virtually every time the full 40 seconds is used.

Ridicule the slow players - point out how everyone hates them. But if you decide to bring in enforceable laws, it will result in a general slow down, because then EVERYONE will use the full time allowed time EVERY time.

Last edited by Wallaby; 08-12-2019 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 08-12-2019, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaby View Post
I know nothing about NFL history, but I bet the 40-second rule between plays was introduced to prevent time-wasting. So now - virtually every time the full 40 seconds is used.
Not at all. A great deal of the time you don’t want to let the clock run out in football (playing up-tempo, trying to catch your opponent before they are ready, conserving the clock so you have time to score...). NFL games aren’t bogged down because everyone takes 40 seconds, it’s because of all the things that happen that stop that 40 second clock from starting. Penalties, injuries, reviews, etc. That’s not the best example honestly.

Last edited by Atamasama; 08-12-2019 at 11:06 PM.
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