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  #35501  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:51 AM
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More on that Pennsylvania speech:

Quote:
Conservative attorney George Conway ― husband of White House counselor Kellyanne Conway ― used a single word to describe the wild claims and outright lies made by Trump at an energy plant outside of Pittsburgh.

“Wut.”

The speech was technically an official White House event on energy and manufacturing, but instead resembled one of Trump’s campaign rallies, complete with attacks on rivals and critics and more than a few outlandish claims.

At one point, as he has done some 75 times before according to the Toronto Star, Trump took credit for signing the Veterans Choice health care program into law.

It was actually signed by President Barack Obama in 2014.

At another point, he suggested the main U.S. export to Japan is wheat.

“They send us thousands and thousands, millions, of cars,” Trump said. “We send them wheat. Wheat! That’s not a good deal.”

But the website of the U.S. Trade Representative ― part of the Executive Office of the President ― notes that wheat is just $698 million of $120.4 billion in U.S. exports to Japan.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/georg...b05fa9df06a087
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  #35502  
Old 08-14-2019, 12:03 PM
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His eyesight is failing! That's it! He has trouble reading the teleprompter! He's too vain to wear glasses or admit his eyesight is bad. He has trouble reading prompter and tries to cover by .....whatever the hell that was!
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  #35503  
Old 08-14-2019, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by America Hating Fuckstick
“They send us thousands and thousands, millions, of cars,” Trump said. “We send them wheat. Wheat! That’s not a good deal.”
It's a good idea to the farmers that grow wheat!
  #35504  
Old 08-14-2019, 12:13 PM
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And yet more comments on the speech:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/14/polit...rgy/index.html

Quote:
1. "I love the unions and I love the workers and, you know, when I built buildings in New York, I built them exclusively with unions. People don't understand that. I was exclusive."

Donald Trump and unions went steady. I did not know that! And away we go!










2. "Remember that -- and remember that, Pennsylvania -- you know, Pennsylvania has the best numbers they've ever had in the history of this state, and that's for a very good reason, and you know what that reason is -- hello, here I am."







The unemployment rate in Pennsylvania for June was 3.8%, the lowest it's been since 1976. That's good! It's not the "best numbers they've ever had in the history of the state" but it's good! Also, I am going to start using the phrase "hello, here I am" a lot more often. As in, "Hey kids, there's a reason you're here. Hello, here I am!"

3. "This Shell petrol chemical plant in Beaver County, Pennsylvania -- I did very well here. We did very well -- how many points did we win by? Does anybody know?"

Good thing this official White House speech sounds nothing at all like Donald Trump's stump speech! (Trump won Beaver County, in western Pennsylvania, by 18.5 points in 2016.)

4. "Unlike those big windmills that destroy everybody's property value, kill all the birds."

Donald Trump vs. the windmill, part 1 billion.

...
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  #35505  
Old 08-14-2019, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
Let's compromise and rename it "America Hating Tubman Blvd". "Fuckstick" has a nice NY attitude to it, but it just won't fly with the rest of the country.

"in today's top news story, disgraced former president trump jumped from his gold-plated penthouse apartment and landed in the middle of Fuckstick Blvd...."
No, can't do that. "Tubman" in honor of Harriet Tubman AND the AHFS.
  #35506  
Old 08-14-2019, 01:37 PM
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So, the Law and Order president is blatantly violating the Hatch act, and it doesn't matter because... there is too much stupid shit to keep track of? Rednecks love it? There is no law anymore?

I am going to scratch a hole in my head trying to figure out how the racist crackdown on immigrants is worth all of this to some people.
  #35507  
Old 08-14-2019, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
https://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...mry-story.html

The Dow is heading in the proper direction to break 25,000 again! Trump reportedly "Jubilant!"
Down a neat 800 points today.

Lol, just got two notifications on my phone, both of them mentioning "recession".

Last edited by JohnT; 08-14-2019 at 03:18 PM.
  #35508  
Old 08-14-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Try2B Comprehensive View Post
I am going to scratch a hole in my head trying to figure out how the racist crackdown on immigrants is worth all of this to some people.
Sure, pretty soon we'll all be wearing pickle barrels and suspenders and fighting with alley cats over fish skeletons, but at least José and María won't be stealing those plum poultry processing plant jobs that Americans are clamoring for.
  #35509  
Old 08-14-2019, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
Down a neat 800 points today.

Lol, just got two notifications on my phone, both of them mentioning "recession".
I'll probably get some push-back for this but I'm not sure how responsible Donald Trump would be for any upcoming recession. After all, we've had a pretty strong 9-year run, much of which took place while Eurozone economies have been confronted with a choice between default or harsh austerity (not to mention Brexit). So if Trump's defenders wanted to point out that all good things come to an end, I'd find it hard to completely disagree. I'm sure he's responsible in some instances, particularly where trade is concerned, but economic expansions eventually run out of steam.

What matters more than the recession itself is how a presidential administration responds to it, and that is what will define how we view Trump's economy. And like you, that's what worries me. Hoover didn't cause the initial wave of bank failures and speculative investing that led to an economic crisis in 1928-29, but his policies of taxation without spending and prolonged trade wars pretty much guaranteed we ended up with the Great Depression. For as much shit as I've talked about George W Bush, he at least had people who learned those lessons and learned from the failures of a Republican predecessor. Take a look at the fucking circus we have now: I don't think we have people in place who even remotely know what they're doing. Trump's handling of the Fed pretty much tells you all you need to know there, in addition to fighting international trade wars on multiple fronts without any indication as to what his objectives are.

The recession is one thing; the response is what will sink us, and I think we're probably in for a very rough ride once we get further away from shore.

Last edited by asahi; 08-14-2019 at 03:56 PM.
  #35510  
Old 08-14-2019, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
Down a neat 800 points today.

Lol, just got two notifications on my phone, both of them mentioning "recession".
I'm wondering if I should cash out my 401ks. (Not withdraw the balances; just convert them to cash.)
  #35511  
Old 08-14-2019, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bobot View Post
https://www.chicagotribune.com/busin...mry-story.html

The Dow is heading in the proper direction to break 25,000 again! Trump reportedly "Jubilant!"
Almost back to levels seen in 2017! MAGA!
  #35512  
Old 08-14-2019, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
I'll probably get some push-back for this but I'm not sure how responsible Donald Trump would be for any upcoming recession.
I go back and forth on how seriously to take you. This is a back moment for you, just FYI.

I mean, I seriously am going to have a hard time listening to you again. Did you just say this?
  #35513  
Old 08-14-2019, 06:01 PM
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I'll probably get some push-back for this but I'm not sure how responsible Donald Trump would be for any upcoming recession. After all, we've had a pretty strong 9-year run, much of which took place while Eurozone economies have been confronted with a choice between default or harsh austerity (not to mention Brexit). So if Trump's defenders wanted to point out that all good things come to an end, I'd find it hard to completely disagree. I'm sure he's responsible in some instances, particularly where trade is concerned, but economic expansions eventually run out of steam.
Sure, there's room for debate on just how much responsibility a president has for the economy during his time in office. Trump, however, has been more than happy to pat himself on the back and claim credit for the good economy during his term so far. It seems only fair that if the economy tanks that Trump gets the blame, too.
  #35514  
Old 08-14-2019, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
I'll probably get some push-back for this but I'm not sure how responsible Donald Trump would be for any upcoming recession. After all, we've had a pretty strong 9-year run, much of which took place while Eurozone economies have been confronted with a choice between default or harsh austerity (not to mention Brexit). So if Trump's defenders wanted to point out that all good things come to an end, I'd find it hard to completely disagree. I'm sure he's responsible in some instances, particularly where trade is concerned, but economic expansions eventually run out of steam.

What matters more than the recession itself is how a presidential administration responds to it, and that is what will define how we view Trump's economy. And like you, that's what worries me. Hoover didn't cause the initial wave of bank failures and speculative investing that led to an economic crisis in 1928-29, but his policies of taxation without spending and prolonged trade wars pretty much guaranteed we ended up with the Great Depression. For as much shit as I've talked about George W Bush, he at least had people who learned those lessons and learned from the failures of a Republican predecessor. Take a look at the fucking circus we have now: I don't think we have people in place who even remotely know what they're doing. Trump's handling of the Fed pretty much tells you all you need to know there, in addition to fighting international trade wars on multiple fronts without any indication as to what his objectives are.

The recession is one thing; the response is what will sink us, and I think we're probably in for a very rough ride once we get further away from shore.
I'll partially agree with you on this. Mainly because Trump thinks he's running a business and we are his employees. Not the other way around, which is reality. His tariff war is "how much money am I making?"
  #35515  
Old 08-14-2019, 06:40 PM
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I'm wondering if I should cash out my 401ks. (Not withdraw the balances; just convert them to cash.)
I did this months ago- moved about 75% of my 401k out of stocks and into a mix of cash and bondy things. After the crash I will move it back ---> profit!
  #35516  
Old 08-14-2019, 07:00 PM
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I was pretty sure that this would be Bolton when I clicked the headline:

Trump Advisor warns China over Hong Kong Crackdown

I wouldn't say that we're up to a 50% chance yet, but I would say that we're probably moving towards Bolton getting the boot. Trump don't care about Venezuela - he's happy to let Bolton do whatever he wants, even if it means being the World Police - but he does care about China and the trade war, and Bolton isn't the sort to give a damn what Trump tells him to do.

1) China tells Trump "no deal" if he or any of his people say anything about Hong Kong
2) Trump tells Bolton to stop
3) Bolton ignores him
4) Bolton fired

Actually, maybe it is better than 50% chance. Trump already backed down on Taiwan, back during the election.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 08-14-2019 at 07:03 PM.
  #35517  
Old 08-14-2019, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Robot Arm View Post
Sure, there's room for debate on just how much responsibility a president has for the economy during his time in office. Trump, however, has been more than happy to pat himself on the back and claim credit for the good economy during his term so far. It seems only fair that if the economy tanks that Trump gets the blame, too.
Not only this (the fact that Trump's been claiming credit, so he gets the blame, too), but the fact that Trump has actually taken a crowbar to the economy.

His meddling with trade--and the results, which also include increasing the dreaded 'business uncertainty' to an exponential extent--amounts to far more responsibility for the current situation than is true for most presidents. Most of them refrain from mucking about to the degree that Trump has done.

One is tempted to believe that Trump (and/or his disreputable advisors, such as Peter Navarro) are acting on explicit instructions from the Kremlin, on not only trade issues but the tax screw-up and Trump's pressuring of the Fed on interest rates. But Trump's ego and stupidity are probably enough explanation for it all.
  #35518  
Old 08-14-2019, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot Arm View Post
Sure, there's room for debate on just how much responsibility a president has for the economy during his time in office. Trump, however, has been more than happy to pat himself on the back and claim credit for the good economy during his term so far. It seems only fair that if the economy tanks that Trump gets the blame, too.
Naw, it goes way further than this, guys. So much of economic growth depends upon many of the players understanding the rules and being confident enough to form agreements based upon those same rules.

Trump has destroyed rule after agreement after accord after treaty after norm after relationship (repeat x!y times) so often that the economic world which existed from 1948-2016 is in shambles (and I think people are beginning to wake up to this fact). And it's not just "oh, we can elect a Dem and things will go back to normal", no... omg, not at all. Why should they trust America not to elect another Trump? Why... now given the opportunity to move past the Pax Americana... would SE Asia, Europe, even Africa want to go back to those days? And you can't just say "oops on that destroyed trade agreement. Quid pro ante?" because not a single country will accept that.

And then there's the manner of how Trump has made his changes:

Bush 2 and Reagan (and, to a lesser extent, Clinton) created distortions in the market which occurred via policy implementations under a known democratic process - unfortunate, but it happens. The only thing which has occurred in this manner in the Trump administration is the 2017 tax cut for millionaires - everything else has been Executive Ordered, those orders can be reversed at a whim, and Congress is powerless to stop him. And since there is no plan behind his actions, not a single person on this planet knows what the end game it going to be... or even when it will be, for Trump may get reelected.

Trump owns the upcoming recession even more than Dubya deserved the blame for 2008 as a lot of the systemic damage was done during the Clinton years (smoot-hawley repeal, derivatives removed from federal oversight, more).

But this? This is Donald Trump. And there is no doubt about it

Last edited by JohnT; 08-14-2019 at 07:14 PM.
  #35519  
Old 08-14-2019, 07:22 PM
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... And then there's the manner of how Trump has made his changes:

Bush 2 and Reagan (and, to a lesser extent, Clinton) created distortions in the market which occurred via policy implementations under a known democratic process - unfortunate, but it happens. The only thing which has occurred in this manner in the Trump administration is the 2017 tax cut for millionaires - everything else has been Executive Ordered, those orders can be reversed at a whim, and Congress is powerless to stop him. ...
Excellent point.

That point is one I've been expecting the dark-money titans---the major Republican donors---to be aware of and unhappy about, from the beginning. Yet they've apparently decided that the inevitable uncertainty inherent in letting a mentally unstable person have so much power over the economy, is acceptable.

Trump, in addition to executive orders economically attacking sovereign nations, has performed some tentative acts of economic revenge against individuals and companies that displease him. Again, I'd have expected the major donors to find this unacceptable. So far, that hasn't been the case.

One wonders if there is some cumulative effect that will eventually cause one or more of them to pick up the phone and talk to some Cabinet members. We shall see.
  #35520  
Old 08-14-2019, 07:49 PM
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Great post, JohnT. You've raised the most important dangers of the Trump 'presidency.' We may never be able to fix the damage, and we've lost so much trust the rest of the world used to have in us. Really well said.

Getting rid of Trump does not get rid of the dipshits or evil kakistocrats who supported him or more importantly, their agenda. Trump is just their useful idiot -- as much as he is for Putin. It's going to be a significant challenge to beat them back to under their slimy rocks.

And fuck knows how long it's going to take to rebuild our institutions -- State, Energy, Labor, EPA, Housing, etc., etc. -- plus the judiciary, FBI and other national security agencies. The vast amount of institutional knowledge lost across the board should make every American sink to their knees, hang their head and cry. It will take decades to recover that.

I've always said we'll never survive a second illegitimate Trump term. I feel that more than ever. Hell, I'm not sure we're going to survive the first illegitimate one.
  #35521  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:32 PM
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Trump attempts to solve the Hong Kong crisis through Twitter:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Trump
I know President Xi of China very well. He is a great leader who very much has the respect of his people. He is also a good man in a “tough business.” I have ZERO doubt that if President Xi wants to quickly and humanely solve the Hong Kong problem, he can do it. Personal meeting?
Incidentally, this is what Trump said to Playboy in 1990 about the Tiananmen Square massacre:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Trump
"When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength. That shows you the power of strength" – Donald Trump, March 1990.
  #35522  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:39 PM
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What do you know, the shitgibbon essentially admits it's Americans paying for his petulance:

Quote:
"The announcement today that the Trump Administration will be delaying the additional 10% tariff on some footwear until December 1 is an acknowledgment that tariffs are indeed paid by Americans,” the group’s president and CEO Matt Priest said in a statement.
  #35523  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:40 PM
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Because nobody can have anything better than what Trump has, he may have spilled the beans on secret US weapons. Or else he might have just lied. Would he do that?

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-brag...-9fd8339f617a/
  #35524  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:42 PM
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This would imply that Trump paid attention during an intelligence briefing, which seems unlikely.
  #35525  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
On the lighter side of the trump news, some people in NYC want to rename the street that trump tower is on.

Guess who they want to name it after?
I guessed right, do I win a No-Prize?




Out of thread: Cal, I'm not sure whether I hate your sig or appreciate it. On one hand, it's an earworm trigger. On the other, anything that helps lighten threads like this one is welcome. du du du du dududu banana...
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  #35526  
Old 08-15-2019, 12:47 AM
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Leaked Draft of Trump Executive Order to 'Censor the Internet' Denounced as Dangerous, Unconstitutional Edict
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Civil liberties groups are warning of a major threat to online freedoms and First Amendment rights if a leaked draft of a Trump administration edict—dubbed by critics as a "Censor the Internet" executive order that would give powerful federal agencies far-reaching powers to pick and choose which kind of Internet material is and is not acceptable—is allowed to go into effect.
Trying to imagine the bastard trying to read any of this thread.
Oh the umbrage that would ensue.
  #35527  
Old 08-15-2019, 07:32 AM
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Great post, JohnT. You've raised the most important dangers of the Trump 'presidency.' We may never be able to fix the damage, and we've lost so much trust the rest of the world used to have in us. Really well said.

Getting rid of Trump does not get rid of the dipshits or evil kakistocrats who supported him or more importantly, their agenda. Trump is just their useful idiot -- as much as he is for Putin. It's going to be a significant challenge to beat them back to under their slimy rocks.

And fuck knows how long it's going to take to rebuild our institutions -- State, Energy, Labor, EPA, Housing, etc., etc. -- plus the judiciary, FBI and other national security agencies. The vast amount of institutional knowledge lost across the board should make every American sink to their knees, hang their head and cry. It will take decades to recover that.

I've always said we'll never survive a second illegitimate Trump term. I feel that more than ever. Hell, I'm not sure we're going to survive the first illegitimate one.
From June:

The bond market may be signaling something worse than a recession: Distrust in America.
  #35528  
Old 08-15-2019, 07:45 AM
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Down a neat 800 points today.

Lol, just got two notifications on my phone, both of them mentioning "recession".
If you are many years from retirement it’s nice to see the stock market have some discounted prices.
  #35529  
Old 08-15-2019, 07:45 AM
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Trump has his Coyote moment when, midair, he appreciates the gravity of his situation.
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  #35530  
Old 08-15-2019, 07:50 AM
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4-D chess, mi amigos. The Orange Turd is creating an economic downturn so we can all buy cheap stock.

Very genius. Much winning.
  #35531  
Old 08-15-2019, 08:00 AM
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4-D chess, mi amigos. The Orange Turd is creating an economic downturn so we can all buy cheap stock.

Very genius. Much winning.
Can’t buy cheap stock if short sighted people don’t sell.
  #35532  
Old 08-15-2019, 08:21 AM
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McCain?

I like that.
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  #35533  
Old 08-15-2019, 08:30 AM
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If you are many years from retirement it’s nice to see the stock market have some discounted prices.
Which is what I tell my son who is just starting to fund his 401k and a bit dismayed that he is currently underwater.

On the other hand, I find it a bit disconcerting since I am mostly retired and about ready to start living on my investments.
  #35534  
Old 08-15-2019, 08:40 AM
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I guessed right, do I win a No-Prize?




Out of thread: Cal, I'm not sure whether I hate your sig or appreciate it. On one hand, it's an earworm trigger. On the other, anything that helps lighten threads like this one is welcome. du du du du dududu banana...
I think that might mean it's time to change it.

Sorry about the earworm. But at least I'm memorable.
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  #35535  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:05 AM
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Naw, it goes way further than this, guys. So much of economic growth depends upon many of the players understanding the rules and being confident enough to form agreements based upon those same rules.

Trump has destroyed rule after agreement after accord after treaty after norm after relationship (repeat x!y times) so often that the economic world which existed from 1948-2016 is in shambles (and I think people are beginning to wake up to this fact). And it's not just "oh, we can elect a Dem and things will go back to normal", no... omg, not at all. Why should they trust America not to elect another Trump? Why... now given the opportunity to move past the Pax Americana... would SE Asia, Europe, even Africa want to go back to those days? And you can't just say "oops on that destroyed trade agreement. Quid pro ante?" because not a single country will accept that.

And then there's the manner of how Trump has made his changes:

Bush 2 and Reagan (and, to a lesser extent, Clinton) created distortions in the market which occurred via policy implementations under a known democratic process - unfortunate, but it happens. The only thing which has occurred in this manner in the Trump administration is the 2017 tax cut for millionaires - everything else has been Executive Ordered, those orders can be reversed at a whim, and Congress is powerless to stop him. And since there is no plan behind his actions, not a single person on this planet knows what the end game it going to be... or even when it will be, for Trump may get reelected.

Trump owns the upcoming recession even more than Dubya deserved the blame for 2008 as a lot of the systemic damage was done during the Clinton years (smoot-hawley repeal, derivatives removed from federal oversight, more).

But this? This is Donald Trump. And there is no doubt about it
I don't disagree with any of this; Trump's policies are definitely weakening the structure of the global economic system, so in that sense, yes, his policies do contribute to a recession, but no economic expansion lasts forever. I'm not saying Trump isn't responsible at all, but as is the case with any president there are always factors and forces acting on the economy that are well beyond his control.

The real danger I see is not Trump causing the recession, but rather his response to it once it starts to take shape, and that may already be happening as we speak. We're getting mixed signals right now, with consumer spending and sentiment still relatively stable while market forces overseas are beginning to show downward momentum, which will impact us in time.

Last edited by asahi; 08-15-2019 at 09:07 AM.
  #35536  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
Great post, JohnT. You've raised the most important dangers of the Trump 'presidency.' We may never be able to fix the damage, and we've lost so much trust the rest of the world used to have in us. Really well said.

Getting rid of Trump does not get rid of the dipshits or evil kakistocrats who supported him or more importantly, their agenda. Trump is just their useful idiot -- as much as he is for Putin. It's going to be a significant challenge to beat them back to under their slimy rocks.
It's worse than that. Even if we elect a democrat, to the outside world, there is going to be lingering doubt about the stability of our political system and there will be a lack of confidence in our ability to elect competent leadership. American democracy is in full-on crisis stage, and everyone sees that. If you're a trading partner, you're hedging your bets and doing whatever you can to spread your risk to other economies, wherever one can be found, even if it's China.

A related problem is that our current administration's embrace of right wing, authoritarian, and disruptor politics means we are less likely to influence and help other Democratic partners stem the rising tide of right wing authoritarianism in their countries. Right wing extremist politics isn't just a problem here; it's a growing problem in England, in France, in Germany -- even in Sweden, FFS.

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Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
And fuck knows how long it's going to take to rebuild our institutions -- State, Energy, Labor, EPA, Housing, etc., etc. -- plus the judiciary, FBI and other national security agencies. The vast amount of institutional knowledge lost across the board should make every American sink to their knees, hang their head and cry. It will take decades to recover that.
The worst damage will be aspiring civil servants coming to the conclusion that the federal government isn't a reliable employer...which is what right wing extremists want.
  #35537  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:30 AM
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It's worse than that. Even if we elect a democrat, to the outside world, there is going to be lingering doubt about the stability of our political system and there will be a lack of confidence in our ability to elect competent leadership. American democracy is in full-on crisis stage, and everyone sees that. If you're a trading partner, you're hedging your bets and doing whatever you can to spread your risk to other economies, wherever one can be found, even if it's China.

....
I don't see any Democratic candidates who are capable of inspiring the kind of confidence that will be needed to regain the respect of the world community.

When Nixon resigned and Gerald Ford took over, the country breathed a collective sigh of relief that an honest man was in the White House. Ford may not have been the brightest bulb in the box or a Great Leader... BUT back then the rest of the government was still functioning. Whoever takes over from Donald will have a task similar to the person who goes into the china shop after the bull is done with it. Or someone who surveys a town after a tornado has gone through and destroyed, damaged, or upended just about everything.
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  #35538  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:42 AM
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I don't see any Democratic candidates who are capable of inspiring the kind of confidence that will be needed to regain the respect of the world community.

When Nixon resigned and Gerald Ford took over, the country breathed a collective sigh of relief that an honest man was in the White House. Ford may not have been the brightest bulb in the box or a Great Leader... BUT back then the rest of the government was still functioning. Whoever takes over from Donald will have a task similar to the person who goes into the china shop after the bull is done with it. Or someone who surveys a town after a tornado has gone through and destroyed, damaged, or upended just about everything.
We could elect Jesus Christ and it wouldn't matter, because the lack of confidence isn't rooted in the failure of a qualified candidate to appear; it's rooted in a lack of confidence in the American people themselves. Everyone else around the world knew that there was something seriously wrong with American democracy when Donald Trump won the Republican nomination - and then he went on to defeat a decorated career public servant in Hillary Clinton!

And the failure of Hillary Clinton is just as much a part of this story as the success of a total jackass like Donald Trump. Because what we learned from 2016 is that a good, qualified candidate can be politically poisoned by conspiracy theories. And once you let that realization sink in, you realize...we're fucked. We're fucked because, generally, American people no longer value democracy in the way that our parents and grandparents did. The rest of the world sees that. Some parts of the world are beginning to mimic our behavior, too

Last edited by asahi; 08-15-2019 at 09:43 AM.
  #35539  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:58 AM
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We could elect Jesus Christ and it wouldn't matter, because the lack of confidence isn't rooted in the failure of a qualified candidate to appear; it's rooted in a lack of confidence in the American people themselves. Everyone else around the world knew that there was something seriously wrong with American democracy when Donald Trump won the Republican nomination - and then he went on to defeat a decorated career public servant in Hillary Clinton!

And the failure of Hillary Clinton is just as much a part of this story as the success of a total jackass like Donald Trump. Because what we learned from 2016 is that a good, qualified candidate can be politically poisoned by conspiracy theories. And once you let that realization sink in, you realize...we're fucked. We're fucked because, generally, American people no longer value democracy in the way that our parents and grandparents did. The rest of the world sees that. Some parts of the world are beginning to mimic our behavior, too
The issue is deeper than that. The issue isn’t the American people or the American electorate. The issue is democracy. The average person has an IQ of 100. You need to win the votes of a large number of people and to do that you need to resonate with them. You think an Alexander Hamilton would resonate with the electorate of today?
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:02 AM
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When was Alexander Hamilton ever elected to anything?


Last edited by JohnT; 08-15-2019 at 10:03 AM.
  #35541  
Old 08-15-2019, 10:08 AM
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When was Alexander Hamilton ever elected to anything?

Never said he was. I’m just saying that the political writing and communication of folks like Madison, Jefferson, Hamilton etc isn’t going to be as effective today as it was back in the day due to the changing electorate. Merely being 18 years of age and a US citizen doesn’t make one an expert on what one is voting for. Needing to pander to the population as a whole is problematic.

ETA. It might actually be more related to the mass media such as TV and radio making communication with the electorate more accessible being the issue more so than the electorate.

Last edited by octopus; 08-15-2019 at 10:11 AM.
  #35542  
Old 08-15-2019, 10:13 AM
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When was Alexander Hamilton ever elected to anything?

1782 and 1788.
  #35543  
Old 08-15-2019, 10:29 AM
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Joe Biden was Obama's vice president. Perhaps that will instill some confidence.
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  #35544  
Old 08-15-2019, 10:30 AM
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In this country.
  #35545  
Old 08-15-2019, 11:11 AM
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I'm wondering if I should cash out my 401ks. (Not withdraw the balances; just convert them to cash.)
The problem is identifying when you need to sell and then buy again. The vast majority of people lose money by trying to time the market - you should just take the strategy of riding out the ups and downs, and not even try to play poker with the people who know much more than you do.

There are lots of people who sold right after the market went down in 2008-2009, and then missed the recovery that happened immediately after it. That's the danger, missing the upswing.
  #35546  
Old 08-15-2019, 11:24 AM
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(CNN) — Israel announced Thursday it was barring the entry of two US congresswomen after Donald Trump encouraged the move, a remarkable step both by the US President and his ally, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, to punish political opponents.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/15/pol...oogle.com&rm=1

Cool.
  #35547  
Old 08-15-2019, 11:38 AM
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The problem is identifying when you need to sell and then buy again. The vast majority of people lose money by trying to time the market - you should just take the strategy of riding out the ups and downs, and not even try to play poker with the people who know much more than you do.

There are lots of people who sold right after the market went down in 2008-2009, and then missed the recovery that happened immediately after it. That's the danger, missing the upswing.
Trump can and does create these swings with a simple tweet. Don't know who's telling him to do it, but they are certainly raking it in.
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  #35548  
Old 08-15-2019, 12:03 PM
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(CNN) — Israel announced Thursday it was barring the entry of two US congresswomen after Donald Trump encouraged the move, a remarkable step both by the US President and his ally, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, to punish political opponents.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/15/pol...oogle.com&rm=1

Cool.
Did they really want to go in the first place? I don't know, talking about supporting a boycott of a country seems like a pretty good way to get blacklisted, particularly when we're talking about a country whose population had grandparents who lived through a much more sinister boycott.
  #35549  
Old 08-15-2019, 12:08 PM
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we're talking about a country whose population had grandparents who lived through a much more sinister boycott.
Nicely phrased.
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  #35550  
Old 08-15-2019, 12:47 PM
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Did they really want to go in the first place?
They wanted to go to Jerusalem and the Palestinian territories on a tour organized by a Palestinian-rights organization. The only way to access those places is to get permission from Israel.
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