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  #201  
Old 11-29-2016, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by running coach View Post
They don't listen to Democrats.

Stupid people vote stupidly until they are without and starving and crying "Wee! wee! wee! Who'll take care of Us...?"

By then, its usually, "...well why didn't you Democrats DO anything!?"
  #202  
Old 11-29-2016, 05:11 PM
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First question: do professional protesters do this more than amateur protesters?
They just do it better. They're professionals
  #203  
Old 11-29-2016, 05:11 PM
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Trump makes a statement about his emotional reaction
Fifteen year old girls might be expected to share their spur-of-the moment emotional reactions on Twitter. A president-elect, not so much, especially when he's proposing violating the First Amendment.

Trying to defend idiocy just makes you an idiot.
  #204  
Old 11-29-2016, 05:25 PM
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Where do I start with this?

1. Good thing a Trump isn't a woman. Because the whole making statements based on emotions thingy would have us all wondering if he's on his period right now.

2. It's crazy he lets himself get emotional about flag burning in the first place. So that isn't a defense.
Emotions are natural, normal and powerful things, and people hoping to succeed in public life understand and use them. There's a reason Bill Clinton said "I feel your pain."

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3. When people criticize him, he sees that akin to them burning the flag? To feel that way means Trump sees support for him as indistinguishable with patriotism. As if he is the United States. Egomaniacal, anyone?
I'm not sure what you mean here, exactly, but yes, to the extent he can put himself on the "patriotism" side, that's what he'd like to do. Knee-jerk responses that take unserious words seriously help him.
  #205  
Old 11-29-2016, 05:26 PM
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Well I sure didn't vote for him. Apparently a lot of others didn't either.
Yeah, well, a lot of you didn't vote at all, so here you are.
  #206  
Old 11-29-2016, 05:31 PM
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Fifteen year old girls might be expected to share their spur-of-the moment emotional reactions on Twitter. A president-elect, not so much, especially when he's proposing violating the First Amendment.
Apparently Trump doesn't care about your expectations.

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Trying to defend idiocy just makes you an idiot.
No, failing to comprehend the difference between understanding something and defending it -- that would make me an idiot.

I didn't vote for Trump. I'm uncertain that he will be a successful president. But am nonetheless able to observe and comprehend his rhetorical strategy. It is precisely the visceral anger that Trump arouses in his critics that make them unable to.

Last edited by furt; 11-29-2016 at 05:33 PM.
  #207  
Old 11-29-2016, 05:33 PM
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Yeah, well, a lot of you didn't vote at all, so here you are.
Again, don't lump us all together. It sounds too much like some sort of "you people" thing. I definitely voted - for Clinton.
  #208  
Old 11-29-2016, 05:53 PM
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Again, don't lump us all together.
Oh, I thought you were trying to pull your country together and heal your differences and unite and all that crap.
  #209  
Old 11-29-2016, 08:38 PM
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Did ya? I thought a whole bunch of us were just waiting to see what was going to blow up first.

I personally have a "you bought it and you're gonna break it" thing going, but we'll see.
  #210  
Old 11-29-2016, 08:53 PM
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....But am nonetheless able to observe and comprehend his rhetorical strategy. It is precisely the visceral anger that Trump arouses in his critics that make them unable to.
So, its a savvy tactical maneuver, then? Beneath what appears to be rave and bluster is an eleven-dimension chess playing Vulcan? Cooly deploying his rhetorical judo.

With all due awe, seems a bit of a stretch.
  #211  
Old 11-29-2016, 08:55 PM
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I'm uncertain that he will be a successful president. But am nonetheless able to observe and comprehend his rhetorical strategy. It is precisely the visceral anger that Trump arouses in his critics that make them unable to.
There's certainly a valid point in saying Americans can be easily swayed by their emotions, but I'm not inclined to give Trump any credit for discovering how to manipulate this. I expect in his case it's more of a lucky accident and he's now developed a Pavlovian response to "make off-the-cuff remark / get positive reinforcement from cheering doofi". If he isolates himself from most criticism, he can keep that going a very long time, emerging occasionally to lash out at someone for whom the spell didn't work, insult them, get doofi cheers, repeat.

The closest he came to disaster, I expect, was when he went after that Gold Star family. Fortunately for him, they weren't white or Christian, so he still got enough doofi support to keep his campaign going until the Benghazi/e-mail barrels were reloaded.

It's not an ingenious tactic - it doesn't have to be, considering the audience.
  #212  
Old 11-29-2016, 08:56 PM
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Apparently Trump doesn't care about your expectations.

No, failing to comprehend the difference between understanding something and defending it -- that would make me an idiot.

I didn't vote for Trump. I'm uncertain that he will be a successful president. But am nonetheless able to observe and comprehend his rhetorical strategy. It is precisely the visceral anger that Trump arouses in his critics that make them unable to.
I get it. Your point is that the President-elect is a troll. And you regard that as a reasonable strategy for the leader of the most powerful country in the world.
  #213  
Old 11-29-2016, 09:03 PM
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I get it. Your point is that the President-elect is a troll. And you regard that as a reasonable strategy for the leader of the most powerful country in the world.
Well, it was clearly a good strategy to get elected. We can only guess and pre-emptively cringe at what kind of political leader he'll be.
  #214  
Old 11-29-2016, 09:03 PM
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I think furt is right.


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk Pro
  #215  
Old 11-29-2016, 09:14 PM
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I don't care about your stinkin' Iphone, even less about Tapatalk. Rendered in Dutch just makes it Eurotrash.
  #216  
Old 11-29-2016, 09:18 PM
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I don't care about your stinkin' Iphone, even less about Tapatalk. Rendered in Dutch just makes it Eurotrash.
Hey! You're messing with the picture I'm forming of you as a tolerant person.

I understand that Tapatalk appends that message on its own. And if she habitually posts in Dutch, the message will be in Dutch. If you posted a message in French, your Tapatalk sig would be in English. Go ahead. Try it.
  #217  
Old 11-29-2016, 09:26 PM
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I get it. Your point is that the President-elect is a troll. And you regard that as a reasonable strategy for the leader of the most powerful country in the world.
My point is that his approach to the media and communicating with the populace has been effective; and that if you look at it dispassionately it's not that hard to see why.


For a year now, all the liberals and all commenters on TV and the internet and whatnot have been saying that "Trump is breaking all the rules" when it comes to campaigning/media/communication. And yet the same people still keep acting surprised and offended when he does things that aren't "expected" or "reasonable" or "proper" or the way things were done in the past. You can stamp your feet and demand he play by your rules, or you can get smarter and figure out the new ones.

Last edited by furt; 11-29-2016 at 09:28 PM.
  #218  
Old 11-29-2016, 09:30 PM
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Well I sure didn't vote for him. Apparently a lot of others didn't either.
Most people didn't.

As for Trump intentionally tweeting just to distract -- and I can only hope this is the case, that he doesn't really believe this shit -- he's still the president-elect, and what he says matters. Saying "Oh, it's just a tweet" doesn't cut it. And anyway, I don't see the media ignoring the scandals to report on his tweets. I see the scandals being reported heavily too.

Already mentioned is this morning's tweet about jail time and taking away citizenship for flag burners. Seriously, WTF? This is a president-elect saying this for public consumption, not Rush Lumbaugh blowing steam on his radio show. And it didn't seem like he was talking about stripping just naturalized citizens of their citizenship but also born-and-bred Americans such as myself. Huh? How the hell woukd that work?
  #219  
Old 11-29-2016, 09:34 PM
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My point is that his approach to the media and communicating with the populace has been effective; and that if you look at it dispassionately it's not that hard to see why.
Yes, but "effective" only at getting him elected - not effective at improving America in any way. Indeed quite the opposite, I'll venture, in that he fed unrealistic fantasies of using nuclear retaliation, restoring manufacturing jobs, and keeping out immigrants.

Beyond the very limited scope of feeding the ego of Donald Trump, I'm not sure what Donald Trump has actually accomplished.
  #220  
Old 11-29-2016, 09:54 PM
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There's certainly a valid point in saying Americans can be easily swayed by their emotions, but I'm not inclined to give Trump any credit for discovering how to manipulate this. I expect in his case it's more of a lucky accident and he's now developed a Pavlovian response to "make off-the-cuff remark / get positive reinforcement from cheering doofi". If he isolates himself from most criticism, he can keep that going a very long time, emerging occasionally to lash out at someone for whom the spell didn't work, insult them, get doofi cheers, repeat.
It's not Americans, and it's not doofuses; it's all humans, full stop. He's spent his whole life studying marketing and sales, and techniques like leading and pacing, mirroring, etc. are second nature to him now. You can flatter yourself that you're immune to them, but the reality is that all humans are; pretending otherwise just puts you in the position of people who insist their memory is accurate, even though mountains of research show otherwise.


Far from isolating himself he wants the criticism. He uses it. He tweets out about defending the flag, and the media jumps all over him about it ... but 80% of the public wants to defend the flag, too, and 80% of the public hates the media anyway, so that's a rhetorical win. If any Democrats go on TV and attack him for it, they look bad, too (I haven't seen any, which shows they are smarter than the TV people). When critics attack his rhetoric as if it was dialectic -- i.e. respond to tweets as if they were serious legislative proposals -- they're doing exactly what he wants.
  #221  
Old 11-29-2016, 10:01 PM
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Far from isolating himself he wants the criticism.
Oh, please; he notoriously can't handle even mild criticism without having a tantrum.

He's an incompetent fool who would be in prison or homeless if he hadn't inherited wealth; not the clever manipulator you claim he is. He didn't win because he manipulated people, he won because he's stupid, bigoted scum and stupid, bigoted scum is what millions of people wanted.
  #222  
Old 11-29-2016, 10:03 PM
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Yes, but "effective" only at getting him elected...
Seems to me that's kind of a valuable thing. Campaigns are about getting elected.

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- not effective at improving America in any way. Indeed quite the opposite, I'll venture, in that he fed unrealistic fantasies of using nuclear retaliation, restoring manufacturing jobs, and keeping out immigrants.
Well, that remains to be seen.

But if you think "failing to keep every single promise" will doom Trump, you have learned nothing.

Last edited by furt; 11-29-2016 at 10:03 PM.
  #223  
Old 11-29-2016, 10:10 PM
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He's an incompetent fool who would be in prison or homeless if he hadn't inherited wealth; not the clever manipulator you claim he is.
He inherited a million and turned it into a billion. Despite not being handsome or charming, he was a top rated TV star for a decade. Despite never having run for office before, he just won the presidency. That sounds like a pretty smart guy to me. Maybe even someone to learn from.


OTOH, you're an impotent, hate-filled little man raging at the world through his keyboard, so maybe I should take your opinions seriously instead.

Last edited by furt; 11-29-2016 at 10:10 PM.
  #224  
Old 11-29-2016, 10:12 PM
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But if you think "failing to keep every single promise" will doom Trump, you have learned nothing.
True, we've learned that the Trump voter is really fucking dim.
  #225  
Old 11-29-2016, 10:13 PM
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It's not Americans, and it's not doofuses; it's all humans, full stop.
Well, duh, but America is a large country, it has so many doofuses... Ideally, an advanced nation would keeps its reactionary subculture in check, but this time the doofuses lucked out. Of course, this was after years of careful feeding of their delusions, topped by a dessert of Benghazi a la e-mail.


I admit some gladness that the demagogue that ultimately captured their imaginations wasn't an overtly religious figure or (more of) an overtly racist one. Trump's most likely avenue of harming America is likely in service to own greed rather than delusions of hastening the Rapture or purifying the nation. You've got a crass Crassus on your hands, or maybe a Boss Twit, only with an even less-developed instinct for public service.

And so he can manipulate the masses. That doesn't speak to his brilliance - it just speaks to their stupidity.
  #226  
Old 11-29-2016, 10:15 PM
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He inherited a million and turned it into a billion. Despite not being handsome or charming, he was a top rated TV star for a decade. Despite never having run for office before, he just won the presidency. That sounds like a pretty smart guy to me. Maybe even someone to learn from.
He's an angry cunt, in a country that's pissed off. Trump blundered into the presidency. He didn't win because he was brilliant, he won because Clinton got 4 million fewer votes than Obama. Trump got the same as Romney.


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OTOH, you're an impotent, hate-filled little man raging at the world through his keyboard, so maybe I should take your opinions seriously instead.
I'd take a peek at the log in your eye.
  #227  
Old 11-29-2016, 10:26 PM
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He's spent his whole life studying marketing and sales, and techniques like leading and pacing, mirroring, etc. are second nature to him now.
If he truly spent that much time studying marketing and sales, many of his business ventures such as Trump steaks, Trump wine, and Trump University wouldn't be failures or tarnished with fraud allegations. His most successful ventures have been real estate, which were primarily helped by his having a lot of starting capital, being able to get lots of loans due to his starting capital and family name, and the real estate market going mostly steadily upwards throughout his business career.

Far from mirroring and other neuro-linguistic programming techniques, Trump's main skill is his almost unfailing confidence, which he has turned into branding. This is a form of marketing, but is one built primarily on his narcissism and ego. He can speak in soundbytes well enough, sometimes, but hearing him talk uninterrupted for a significant length of time shows that he is no master salesperson who can close a skeptical would-be buyer.

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He inherited a million and turned it into a billion. Despite not being handsome or charming, he was a top rated TV star for a decade. Despite never having run for office before, he just won the presidency. That sounds like a pretty smart guy to me.
Without seeing his taxes or his books, we'll never know his actual net worth. But Trump, again due to his confidence and his near-lack of any open self-doubt, has his own kind of charm and charisma. His secret weapon in TV was also his secret weapon in the campaign that seemed to have attracted a lot of voters - he has no shame. Whereas other conventional candidates would have run and hide after the initial John McCain POW comments or any number of other outrageous remarks, Trump never let any pressure or criticism actually get to him and cause him to apologize (minus the forced, stilted Billy Bush tape apology) or self-reflect. That was something different that a lot of people hadn't seen before.

Last edited by ganthet; 11-29-2016 at 10:27 PM.
  #228  
Old 11-29-2016, 10:28 PM
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He inherited a million and turned it into a billion. Despite not being handsome or charming, he was a top rated TV star for a decade. Despite never having run for office before, he just won the presidency. That sounds like a pretty smart guy to me. Maybe even someone to learn from.


OTOH, you're an impotent, hate-filled little man raging at the world through his keyboard, so maybe I should take your opinions seriously instead.
With the help a few loans. You'll have to cite that billion.
Tax returns will suffice.
  #229  
Old 11-29-2016, 10:35 PM
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Despite not being handsome or charming
Uh-oh, keep that up and you'll be fittin' for a twittin'.
  #230  
Old 11-29-2016, 11:15 PM
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He inherited a million and turned it into a billion.
Notoriously, he did worse than if he'd just stuck the money in safe investments. He's ruined essentially everything he's taken a hand in, which is why he restricts himself to "branding" and scams; he can't do anything else.
  #231  
Old 11-30-2016, 12:54 AM
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Hey! You're messing with the picture I'm forming of you as a tolerant person.

I understand that Tapatalk appends that message on its own. And if she habitually posts in Dutch, the message will be in Dutch. If you posted a message in French, your Tapatalk sig would be in English. Go ahead. Try it.
You say that now, but wait till they come around to cut your doors in half! And how do we really know that this "tapatalk" thing isn't another wooden-shoed step towards world domination?
  #232  
Old 11-30-2016, 03:00 AM
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There's a reason Bill Clinton said "I feel your pain."
There is also a reason Clinton didn't say "R U OK hun" like some vapid teenager.
  #233  
Old 11-30-2016, 05:46 AM
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He inherited a million and turned it into a billion. Despite not being handsome or charming, he was a top rated TV star for a decade. Despite never having run for office before, he just won the presidency. That sounds like a pretty smart guy to me. Maybe even someone to learn from.


OTOH, you're an impotent, hate-filled little man raging at the world through his keyboard, so maybe I should take your opinions seriously instead.
Screw trying to raise the level of discourse-the only solution is to jump into that pigpen and be the better pig, right?
  #234  
Old 11-30-2016, 09:31 AM
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He inherited a million and turned it into a billion.
Yep, he's a genius:

Donald Trump would be richer if he'd have invested in index funds

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Trump’s net worth has grown about 300% to an estimated $4 billion since 1987, according to a report by the Associated Press. But the real estate mogul would have made even more money if he had just invested in index funds. The AP says that, if Trump had invested in an index fund in 1988, his net worth would be as much as $13 billion.

The S&P 500 has grown 1,336% since 1988.

Other billionaires’ net worths have beaten the stock market’s growth in that time. Bill Gates, for example, saw his grow increase 7,173% since 1988 to $80 billion. Warren Buffet’s wealth grew 2,612% in the same time period, to $67.8 billion.
But on the other hand, we got Trump Steaks and Vodka, plus his "university"!
  #235  
Old 11-30-2016, 09:39 AM
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Trump believes that if he tweets enough, they can be compiled into a book which will be the cornerstone of the future Trump Library.
  #236  
Old 11-30-2016, 09:41 AM
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Trump believes that if he tweets enough, they can be compiled into a book which will be the cornerstone of the future Trump Library.
Put it on the shelf next to The Presidency for Dummies.
  #237  
Old 11-30-2016, 09:44 AM
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Trump believes that if he tweets enough, they can be compiled into a book which will be the cornerstone of the future Trump Library.
Don't you mean "Trump Coffeetable"?
  #238  
Old 11-30-2016, 10:24 AM
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Good lord, people are dense.

What, exactly, is anyone supposed to defend? Is there some concrete proposal being put forward? No. He said something on the internet. On Twitter, FFS. The medium specifically designed for people to transmit every half-assed idea and feeling that rolls through their head.

Trump makes a statement about his emotional reaction to flag burning; it's one that the vast majority of Americans share. When people criticize him, they're putting themselves on the pro-flag burning side.

"but first amendment, supreme court, blah blah blah..." Of course. Trump knows all that as well as you do, which is why he's not making a serious proposal. He's saying shit on Twitter, and by reflecting the feelings most people have about flag-burning, he builds trust with them; moreover, he makes the people who can't help criticizing him put themselves on the pro-flag burning side. Your hatred of him lets him live in your head.

It's rhetoric, not dialectic. Trump has been making fools of people who don't understand the difference for two years now. When you know the difference, you can meet rhetoric with rhetoric, dialectic with dialectic. When you don't, you're a sperg who takes jokes seriously, takes profanity literally, and asks people to "defend your position" on Twitter.
I agree that this is the way Trump is using the medium. Basically its bar talk. The sort to things you say in a bar after a few drinks. I doubt that Trump put any more thought into his tweet than dasmoocher did with this post.
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If someone takes his phone away he'll probably strip search everyone in Trump Tower.
The problem is that the president isn't allowed to engage in bar talk. As Spiderman knows "with great power there must also come, great responsibility." Saying in a bar "all Muslims are terrorists and we ought to nuke Mecca". is not going to raise an eyebrow, but the president saying it in public is quite another thing.

Also Trump's ego means that once he says something he won't back away from it. If I confronted dasmoocher, about his post he would probably admit that it was just a joke and he doesn't really think that Trump will strip search everyone. But now that he tweeted it Trump will never admit that the revoking of citizenship is not the proper penalty for flag burning. To do so would be to admit that not everything that comes out of his mouth is the truth direct from god.
  #239  
Old 11-30-2016, 10:36 AM
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I agree that this is the way Trump is using the medium. Basically its bar talk. The sort to things you say in a bar after a few drinks. I doubt that Trump put any more thought into his tweet than dasmoocher did with this post.


The problem is that the president isn't allowed to engage in bar talk. As Spiderman knows "with great power there must also come, great responsibility." Saying in a bar "all Muslims are terrorists and we ought to nuke Mecca". is not going to raise an eyebrow, but the president saying it in public is quite another thing.

Also Trump's ego means that once he says something he won't back away from it. If I confronted dasmoocher, about his post he would probably admit that it was just a joke and he doesn't really think that Trump will strip search everyone. But now that he tweeted it Trump will never admit that the revoking of citizenship is not the proper penalty for flag burning. To do so would be to admit that not everything that comes out of his mouth is the truth direct from god.
My post was a reference to The Caine Mutiny. Capt Queeg strip searches the crew for a duplicate key he knows doesn't exist, IIRC.

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When strawberries go missing from the officers' mess, Queeg is convinced that a sailor has made a duplicate key to the food locker and orders the crew strip-searched to find it. He recounts to Maryk and Keefer a similar situation (when he was an Ensign) where he earned a commendation for uncovering a food theft. Maryk, Keefer, and Keith learn from the departing Ensign Harding (Jerry Paris) that he had already informed Queeg that the mess boys had eaten the strawberries, and that Queeg had threatened to revoke his leave if he revealed that knowledge to anyone else. Queeg follows through with his plan to find the (known by Queeg to be non-existent) key.
  #240  
Old 11-30-2016, 11:28 AM
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Interesting article in Slate:

How to Manipulate Donald Trump
He’s an emotional weakling, and his recent interviews give us models for dealing with it.


Quote:
1. He’s all about reciprocal love.
2. His reflexes are vindictive.
3. His ego is fragile.
4. He craves approval.
5. He’s easily soothed by flattery.
6. He’s a softie.
7. His emotional softness makes him morally weak.
8. He substitutes popularity for standards of conduct.
9. He confuses controversy with mystery.
10. He’s obtuse to the pain he inflicts.
11. He feels the pain of his allies, not the pain of people different from him.
12. He’s easily manipulated.
Quote:
Trump is virtually lobotomized. Unable to acknowledge his role in stirring up hatred and fear, he blames others. When Stahl told him that “African Americans think there’s a target on their back,” and “Muslims are terrified,” he shrugged that such fears were “built up by the press, because, frankly, they’ll take every single little incident … and they’ll make [it] into an event.” In his interview with the Times, Trump claimed that low black turnout showed how popular he was: “A lot of people didn’t show up, because the African-American community liked me.” The vanity of this man is bottomless.
Yep. The second coming of Lincoln, I tells ya.
  #241  
Old 11-30-2016, 12:14 PM
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“A lot of people didn’t show up, because the African-American community liked me.”

What does this mean?
  #242  
Old 11-30-2016, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bucketybuck View Post
There is also a reason Clinton didn't say "R U OK hun" like some vapid teenager.
I find that when I'm having to exaggerate to the point of making things up, that's a good sign I have no real point to make. YMMV.
  #243  
Old 11-30-2016, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of a Rich View Post
“A lot of people didn’t show up, because the African-American community liked me.”

What does this mean?
Allow me to translate:

"Racists would have showed up for me in greater numbers had I not displayed so many 'Blacks for Trump' signs in my all white rallies."
  #244  
Old 11-30-2016, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Screw trying to raise the level of discourse-the only solution is to jump into that pigpen and be the better pig, right?
One responds to rhetoric with rhetoric, and to argument with argument.

Even when engaged with people speaking civilly and moderately, Der Trihs has, AFAICT, never posted anything related to politics that wasn't spittle-flecked contempt for anyone who thinks differently than him. I see no reason to throw pearls before swine.
  #245  
Old 11-30-2016, 12:50 PM
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I find that when I'm having to exaggerate to the point of making things up, that's a good sign I have no real point to make. YMMV.
Making things up? Do you mean that Clinton really did say "R U ok hun" like some vapid teenager? Cite?
  #246  
Old 11-30-2016, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
Allow me to translate:

"Racists would have showed up for me in greater numbers had I not displayed so many 'Blacks for Trump' signs in my all white rallies."
Okay, that makes trumpsense.
  #247  
Old 11-30-2016, 01:00 PM
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Which is all that really matters.
  #248  
Old 11-30-2016, 01:02 PM
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The problem is that the president isn't allowed to engage in bar talk. As Spiderman knows "with great power there must also come, great responsibility." Saying in a bar "all Muslims are terrorists and we ought to nuke Mecca". is not going to raise an eyebrow, but the president saying it in public is quite another thing.

Also Trump's ego means that once he says something he won't back away from it.
I agree that the first paragraph is a concern, and a big one.

I don't agree with the latter: Trump will never, ever apologize, but he does drop things when he becomes aware that they are non-starters. Think for example of his statement during the primaries that women who get abortions should face legal sanctions; he said that off the cuff, in an attempt to make himself the most pro-life guy in the room. When he found out afterwards that that was in fact a position too extreme even for GOP primary voters, he dropped it like a hot rock, and I'll guarantee he never brings it up again.

In fact, I think one of the purposes of "say crazy shit" is simply to see what happens. Sometimes, the "crazy" is in fact what a lot of people think, but have been intimidated into not saying, and that is the foundation of his support. Sometimes, it really is crazy, and nobody thinks that, so he drops it. Basically, he test-markets ideas, and only sticks with the ones that really sell.

You can interpret that as "the man has no core convictions" or as "he's a committed populist who desires to speak for the silent majority" or as "he'll say anything to get elected," and they're probably all true.

Last edited by furt; 11-30-2016 at 01:06 PM.
  #249  
Old 11-30-2016, 01:04 PM
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Making things up? Do you mean that Clinton really did say "R U ok hun" like some vapid teenager? Cite?
Trump didn't either. Which you already knew.
  #250  
Old 11-30-2016, 01:05 PM
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The important things to remember now are:

- Anything bad that happens in the next 4 years was Obama's fault
- Deficits don't matter anymore
- Wall? What wall?
- It's good that Trump is surrounding himself with Washington insiders and Goldman-Sachs executives
- Both sides do it.
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