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Old 05-25-2019, 03:52 PM
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Formula One 2019


Is anyone else here following Formula One?

The Monaco Grand Prix is tomorrow. Qualifying highlights here. My money (literally) is on Vettel, Bottas, and Hamilton. Longer odds but a bigger payoff on Vettel (who did take first at Monaco in 2017).

There will be a memorial for recently deceased Niki Lauda as well.
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Old 05-25-2019, 05:17 PM
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Monaco is usually a boring race. Little more than a parade.
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Old 05-26-2019, 02:12 PM
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This one was far from boring for me, I was on the edge of my seat during the last 10 laps praying for Hamilton to fuck up, with anticipation growing each time he radioed in about his tires, with each message more dire than the last. Verstappen having incurred a five-second penalty, I was poised to make quite a bit of money on Vettel. In the end, Hamilton made it after all, and the safety bet that I placed on him helped me recoup most of my money.
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Old 05-26-2019, 02:26 PM
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Is anyone else here following Formula One?
I think I've missed 2 races in the last 40 years.

Kinda fucks up a lot vacations.
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Old 05-26-2019, 02:40 PM
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Watching the Indy 500 while I wait for the F1 race to start.

American racing is so boring! What is America's weird obsession with oval tracks?
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Old 05-26-2019, 03:03 PM
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It must be ridiculously fun to drive the safety car.
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Old 05-27-2019, 11:51 AM
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Watching the Indy 500 while I wait for the F1 race to start.

American racing is so boring! What is America's weird obsession with oval tracks?
There’s nothing weird about it. The Indianapolis Motor Speedway was the prototypical racetrack and was intended to produce a race that was a pure demonstration of speed. NASCAR started out the same way on Daytona Beach. It simply evolved to be the dominant type of racing here. There are road courses all over the US, and in fact IndyCar runs more than half their schedule on road courses.

Anyway, Monaco was actually pretty good. That said, this year started out with so much promise of competition and is now looking like nothing so much as McLaren’s 1988 season. The only way Mercedes is going to lose is if Lewis and Bottas take each other out.
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Old 05-27-2019, 01:58 PM
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It was incredibly tense.

Hamilton's tyres were utterly wrecked at the end and he could barely wrestle it round the Mirabeau complex. He did very well to keep Verstappen behind him and limit him to one hopeful lunge near the end but at least he pulled out of that dive before it all went tits-up.
In one other respect he was massively lucky not to get a bigger penalty for the unsafe release. Sure the team are responsible for giving him the nod but he knew fine well that he was squeezing Bottas who had no-where to go. I think we see it too often and as the pit is the area with lots of unprotected bodies a 5 second penalty seems very soft indeed. Cars going two-abreast down the pit lane seems insane. I'd change so that if there is not a clear gap for you to slot into a single file then you are at fault and it is a 10 second stop/go.

Not sure we learned too much from the race regarding the actual pace of the various teams as Monaco is something of a leveller. Leclerc had something of desperate air about him and you can't blame him for having a go but.....not his finest hour.
Vettel was neither here nor there and Bottas had his race ruined by Red Bull and the poor tyre choice.

I guess it did confirm, again, that Hamilton is still the class of the field. Fast when he has to be, patient when situations demand it, traffic doesn't faze him, he revels in the wet and he's as fair and honest a competitor that I've ever seen on track. He's even nailing the starts now.
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Old 05-27-2019, 04:12 PM
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The race was tense, but the fact that you can't overtake with a car that seemed to be a couple seconds faster per lap, does say something about track/ability to race. In essence the only way to get past is to hope for a mistake by the guy in front of you. You could even say Vettel and Bottas were smarter: they knew there was no way to overtake, so they just brought the car home without trying. Verstappen was taking a risk by following so close and the single attempt at a pass wasn't even close.

Before the unsafe release I was wondering about Bottas though. Under the safety car he was bunching everyone up by going sooo slow. They obviously couldn't overtake and it gave Mercedes the time to pit Hamilton and be ready for him. I guess that's not braking any rules...but maybe it should be?


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Old 05-27-2019, 04:17 PM
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In essence the only way to get past is to hope for a mistake by the guy in front of you.
This applies to many scenarios in many other sports too.
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Old 05-27-2019, 06:27 PM
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Watching the Indy 500 while I wait for the F1 race to start.

American racing is so boring! What is America's weird obsession with oval tracks?
It's not just oval tracks; it's oval tracks with banked curves. The reason for that: more speed. You should read up on the US Grand Prix held at Indianapolis in 2005, where the road course included one of the banked curves - IIRC, the only banked curve on any F1 circuit at the time (or since) - and the tires Michelin supplied to seven of the ten teams couldn't handle it.

Another advantage of oval tracks: they let the spectators see most, if not all, of the course at once.
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Old 05-27-2019, 08:24 PM
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Grojean made it 50 laps on the softs, I suspect Hammilton's reported problems were somewhat overstated. Being Monaco, nothing short of Hamilton's tires delaminating was going to cause him to lose, and Pirelli hasn't had a tire that will let that happen since that Silverstone race a few years ago.
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Old 05-27-2019, 11:23 PM
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Before the unsafe release I was wondering about Bottas though. Under the safety car he was bunching everyone up by going sooo slow. They obviously couldn't overtake and it gave Mercedes the time to pit Hamilton and be ready for him. I guess that's not braking any rules...but maybe it should be?
There was something about Bottas's pit stops that confuses me. The first four cars had a good gap on the rest of the field when the safety car was sent out. When that happens, the racers are supposed to slow down and the safety car lets the drivers go past until the leader of the race is behind the SC, and the other cars queue up in order behind him.

The top four all pitted, Bottas and Verstappen made contact in the pits, Bottas had to come in again a lap later, and he was still able to rejoin the race in fourth place. By the time of his second pit stop, how had the field not closed up enough that he lost some places with the second stop?

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I...where the road course included one of the banked curves - IIRC, the only banked curve on any F1 circuit at the time (or since)...
Not quite. The Monza circuit used to have a road course and a banked oval sharing the same front straight. For a few years in the early-'60s, I think, the Italian Grand Prix was run on a combination of the two circuits. (Watch the movie Grand Prix to get a sense of what it looked like.) The inside of the Karussell at the Nürburgring had about one lane of banking. And I used to have a video game based on the 1967 Formula One season, and I would swear one of the tracks had a banked turn 1. I thought it was Zandvoort, but haven't been able to confirm that.
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Old 05-28-2019, 12:05 AM
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They also used the Avus Ring in Germany a couple of times in the 1960s. It was basically 2 parallel autobahns connected by a couple of banked 180 degree turns at each end.

And technically, the Indy 500 was a part of the F1 World Championship back in the 1950s. There was virtually no crossover between the cars or drivers (a couple of Europeans had a casual look), and it is conveniently forgotten now.
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Old 05-28-2019, 12:14 AM
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The Avus Ring was used in Germany a couple of times in the 1960s. It was basically two parallel autobahns linked by a couple of 180-degree banked turns.

And technically, the Indy 500 was a part of the F1 World Championship back in the 1950s. There was basically no crossover of cars or drivers (a couple of Europeans had a peek, but nothing serious), and it's all conveniently forgotten now.
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Old 05-28-2019, 04:57 AM
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There was something about Bottas's pit stops that confuses me. The first four cars had a good gap on the rest of the field when the safety car was sent out. When that happens, the racers are supposed to slow down and the safety car lets the drivers go past until the leader of the race is behind the SC, and the other cars queue up in order behind him..
I think, (though I can't find a press release for it) that a new rule means a physical safety car triggers the same situation as a virtual safety car, i.e. that all the cars hold station with the relative gaps intact. That might explain why Bottas was able to do that.
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Old 05-28-2019, 05:05 AM
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Grojean made it 50 laps on the softs, I suspect Hammilton's reported problems were somewhat overstated. Being Monaco, nothing short of Hamilton's tires delaminating was going to cause him to lose, and Pirelli hasn't had a tire that will let that happen since that Silverstone race a few years ago.
It was noted in the post-race reports that the medium ended up being no more resilient than the softs.

I have to say I don't think Hamilton was crying wolf (Wolff?) as he was taking sub-optimal lines around the tighter turns for reason I can think of other than simply not having the grip.
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Old 05-28-2019, 07:58 AM
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and Pirelli hasn't had a tire that will let that happen since that Silverstone race a few years ago.
If memory serves that happened because the tyres were fitted the wrong way around.
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Old 06-07-2019, 11:12 PM
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Canadian GP coming up Sunday...Hamilton favored to win, as usual. If I put money on anyone else, it's likely to be Verstappen, based on how well he did at Monaco and there's a possibility, though remote, of a fluke handing him the win and resulting in a huge payoff from a small wagr.
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Old 06-09-2019, 02:38 PM
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I think the stewards have money on Hamilton.

Somehow, the race started earlier than the coverage on my network. I turned it when it was supposed to start, and it was already 13 laps in.

3 laps to go, and I don't give a fuck anymore.
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Old 06-09-2019, 07:17 PM
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That was absolute bullshit what just happened. Total fucking shit! My jaw was on the fucking floor. I cannot believe it. The most bullshit call I have ever seen in any sport. Vettel skillfully recovered from a tight spot that could have taken a lesser driver out of the race, and was rewarded for it with an egregious bullshit kneecapping. Hamilton did not win that fucking race.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:52 AM
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Maybe, but Vettel had it coming, not the first time he has pulled this kind of stunt by a long way. Very amusing reading about him acting like a petulant child at the end, too. Grow up, Vettel, then maybe you'll have more of a chance.

To your earlier comment, Vettel was actually favoured to win the race, as the long straights make Ferrari's power advantage tell and there aren't too many technical corners for them to lose time. But Vettel made a mistake and it cost him.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:06 AM
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I agree it was a total bullshit call. But I feel no sadness for Vettel after he dodged getting excluded from Baku (pr mpre) a couple yrs ago for intentionally ramming Hamilton behind the safety car.
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Old 06-10-2019, 09:53 AM
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What we don't get is all the camera angles and telemetry that the stewards get.

The key point here is whether Vettel had a chance to stay off the racing line as he re-entered the track. That is what you have to do if at all possible. He says he had no option and was out of control but the stewards will know whether he was under/over steering once back on the track and whether he was accelerating or not and from that they can decide whether or not he had a reasonable chance to stay left. His first priority is to come back on to the track safely, not to try and defend his position.

Personally I don't think he was out of control when back on the track and his squeezing of Hamilton looked deliberate to me. I don't buy that he didn't know he was there. I suspect he knew he screwed up and that was the only way of stopping Hamilton passing.

What is far more interesting to me was the fact that the Ferraris were not much ahead of the Mercedes at all. Slightly faster in Quali-trim, not appreciably faster in race-trim.
This track with a huge straight was supposed to be the one that suited Ferrari top-end speed and to a certain extent it did, but nowhere near enough to suggest they are back in the title race. Few other tracks play to their strengths like this one does.

There is also the unavoidable observation that Vettel under pressure is nothing like Hamilton under pressure. Lewis tends to get better as the season goes on and he's already won 5 out 7 races and he seems super-relaxed and confident.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:20 AM
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Good to know your opinion when just about all former F1 racers seem to agree it was feat in itself not to go into the wall and that you have pretty much no grip at all when you have just been on the grass with all 4 tyres.

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Old 06-10-2019, 10:46 AM
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Those former F1 racers wouldn't have had access to the telemetry either.

I'm normally the first to jump to the conclusion that F1 is perhaps corrupt (see also: FIFA, UEFA, IOC, et al), but the conspiracy theory doesn't add up in this case - if anything it would be in F1's interests to avoid penalising Vettel if at all possible, to prevent this season being a boring procession of Mercedes victories, which in turn will turn off viewers and sponsors. I can't believe the stewards or the FIA are suddenly feeling guilty about years of decisions favouring Ferrari and are now trying to redress that slightly.
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Old 06-10-2019, 12:33 PM
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Good to know your opinion when just about all former F1 racers seem to agree it was feat in itself not to go into the wall and that you have pretty much no grip at all when you have just been on the grass with all 4 tyres.
Sure, my opinion is my opinion only but it looked to me like he was just trying to minimise the damage done from his error and it was done right on the limits of plausible deniability but I'm not surprised he did it and I suspect that a lot of others drivers would do the same. There is more to lose from not doing it after all.

And indeed, I see that the telemetry and additional info that only the stewards had played a big part in the decision. Namely that he had enough control to steer towards the right and squeeze Hamilton and that he was probably looking in his mirrors as he did so.

I'm not slamming Vettel, I like him but I think the reaction to this incident is more to do with the effect that it had on the race and the one-sided nature of the season so far than actually a sober assessment of the incident and the rules.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:47 PM
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I don't give a fuck anymore.
Pretty much sums up this entire season.



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Old 07-16-2019, 09:49 PM
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Except the last two races have been great! Especially Austria.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:09 PM
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Yeah, Silverstone was won by the slimmest of margins.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:10 PM
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Yeah, Silverstone was won by the slimmest of margins.
If that's the only way you get enjoyment out the sport, then yeah, don't bother watching.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:27 PM
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I actually enjoyed the race, and yes, there was some good racing mid field that initially made me think that was a good race. But Hamilton could have driven his Silver Arrow to the parking lot, swapped it for his own car, driven to a nearby pub, had a few pints, and taken an Uber back to take the checkered flag. I don't think it's wrong to expect competitive racing for the win.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:35 PM
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I actually enjoyed the race, and yes, there was some good racing mid field that initially made me think that was a good race. But Hamilton could have driven his Silver Arrow to the parking lot, swapped it for his own car, driven to a nearby pub, had a few pints, and taken an Uber back to take the checkered flag. I don't think it's wrong to expect competitive racing for the win.
Before the safety car, it was legitimately up in the air between him and bottas. But after, yeah, he was long gone.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:53 PM
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In other news, I suspect there may be a driver job opening or two at Haas. And a sponsor opening too. They could definitely use a livery change.
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:09 PM
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In other news, I suspect there may be a driver job opening or two at Haas. And a sponsor opening too. They could definitely use a livery change.
https://www.racefans.net/2019/07/16/...-as-ceo-quits/
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Old 07-27-2019, 01:56 PM
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German Grand Prix is tomorrow and my money is on Ferrari. I've got wagers on Vettel and Leclerc. Have to get up early in the morning to watch the race, as I overslept and missed the last one.

An aside, what is the deal with Lance Stroll always doing horribly in qualifying but consistently doing well (relative to his position) in the actual race? A few races ago he even managed to overtake Raikkonen, I think. I know everyone hates on the guy because his father owns his team and they just think he's a rich kid on a lark, but he's able to hold his own in the race; why is he SO horrible at qualifying?
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Old 07-27-2019, 04:50 PM
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Old 07-27-2019, 05:19 PM
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Exactly how much money did you put on Ferrari?
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Old 07-27-2019, 05:27 PM
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Unbelievable, innit? I really really want to root for Ferrari (tho not vettal) but shit like qualifying today keeps happening. And when shit like this doesn't happen, vettal steps in and seems determined to undermine the team.
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Old 07-27-2019, 05:31 PM
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Exactly how much money did you put on Ferrari?
Enough to make the race interesting, not enough to hurt me. I've since placed a wager on Verstappen as well, so that I can at least get some enjoyment out of tomorrow.
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Old 07-28-2019, 10:12 AM
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Well, that was one of the coolest races I've ever seen, and I'll remember it for a long time. So many wild cards and strange incidents resulted in absolute craziness from start to finish. My safety bet on Verstappen made up for the sunk wagers on Ferrari, so I'm still ahead in the end. It was amazing to see Mercedes go down so hard, they really need to be taken down a notch (or 14)...I have to give Hamilton props for soldiering on through such arduous conditions and keeping pace even after that interminable pit stop after his wing was damaged, but he really lost steam after that, and Bottas fared even worse. And it's awesome to see some of the underdogs like Stroll and Kvyat running up front. Both of them earned some major respect at this race.

Really spectacular!
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Old 07-28-2019, 02:51 PM
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I assume they race in the rain because they don't want to delay the race until Monday when many people cannot show up? Any other race series race in the rain? NASCAR and Indy car don't race in the rain, don't know about other smaller US race series.
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Old 07-28-2019, 08:37 PM
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I missed the end. What happened when the safety car had to come in for new tires?
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Old 07-28-2019, 09:05 PM
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I missed the end. What happened when the safety car had to come in for new tires?
Bernd Maylander roll it into the grandstands a la le mans 1955. Dozens of flaming deaths. Then bottas spun out in the pools of blood because he had slicks.
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Old 07-28-2019, 09:06 PM
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I assume they race in the rain because they don't want to delay the race until Monday when many people cannot show up? Any other race series race in the rain? NASCAR and Indy car don't race in the rain, don't know about other smaller US race series.
Most sports car series race in rain.
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Old 07-28-2019, 09:14 PM
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I loved the race, maybe it wasn't technically good, but surely entertaining,

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I assume they race in the rain because they don't want to delay the race until Monday when many people cannot show up? Any other race series race in the rain? NASCAR and Indy car don't race in the rain, don't know about other smaller US race series.
No, almost every series in the world runs in the rains execpt for NASCAR and Indyand other oval-based series.

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Old 07-28-2019, 10:24 PM
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Once again, lack of passing opportunities results in a snooze fest.

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Old 07-28-2019, 11:08 PM
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Kubica also scored his first point, albeit on a technicality. Intriguing race all around.
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Old 07-29-2019, 02:38 AM
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Exciting but a bit of too much of a lottery to have them too often. Good to have something like that to shake it up now and again though.
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:37 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
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The gambling odds are infinitely better than a lottery. Place multiple bets on different drivers and include a few with longer odds, and you have a good chance of coming out ahead.
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