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  #101  
Old 06-10-2019, 10:38 AM
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It's chucking it down now and set to continue all night, so even if tomorrow starts brighter, probably take a while to get enough water out of the surface to be able to play.
  #102  
Old 06-11-2019, 03:04 PM
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Is there a specific reason why they can’t set a schedule so that there is a rain date automatically for the next day? I assume part of it is logistics-related, i.e. travel and lodging, but think that a 10-team championship should be able to accommodate rain dates. It just seems unfair to have the most prestigious championship in the sport to have unplayed matches.
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  #103  
Old 06-11-2019, 03:31 PM
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Is there a specific reason why they canít set a schedule so that there is a rain date automatically for the next day? I assume part of it is logistics-related, i.e. travel and lodging, but think that a 10-team championship should be able to accommodate rain dates. It just seems unfair to have the most prestigious championship in the sport to have unplayed matches.
It's all logistics, and therefore costs.

There actually aren't that many outside broadcast units in the country capable of covering an ODI - the hotspot cameras and hawkeye systems and such aren't off the shelf, and they are currently running at one game a day, with some double headers. There's also the broadcasting itself, and the channel space and the staff (including the commentators!), and also the hospitality staff in the ground.

To make preparations for every game to possible need a rain day would cost a lot of money.


All three knock-out games have rain days in place.
  #104  
Old 06-12-2019, 07:15 AM
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I just thought I'd watch the last 20 odd overs of the Australian innings- they were doing well. The first ball I saw Maxwell was bowled!

Any tem that counts on any of the Marsh brothers is not really strong and seems we will have both them here.

Just on a different topic, has anyone else had issues with some deliveries of the Pakistani bowler Shaheen? It may just have been the angle I saw the delivery from.
  #105  
Old 06-12-2019, 11:44 AM
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Great finish to this one, 400+ looked possible for Australia and they've somewhat fluffed it. And now the Pakistan tail is wagging with some degree of control.

Not what I was expecting.
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  #106  
Old 06-12-2019, 12:00 PM
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Mockers!

Shame Pakistan couldn't quite pull it off. They made a good start and were sitting pretty at 130/2, but a couple of mini-collapses (and good bowling, to be fair) have done for them. Australia lucky to get away with this one, I fear they will take this and the Windies result and use it to build confidence. I'd rather be facing Pakistan than Australia once we get to the KO, even with the risk that Pakistan might pull off a blinder.
  #107  
Old 06-12-2019, 12:32 PM
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Mockers!

Shame Pakistan couldn't quite pull it off. They made a good start and were sitting pretty at 130/2, but a couple of mini-collapses (and good bowling, to be fair) have done for them. Australia lucky to get away with this one, I fear they will take this and the Windies result and use it to build confidence. I'd rather be facing Pakistan than Australia once we get to the KO, even with the risk that Pakistan might pull off a blinder.
Inability to take catches is really costing Pakistan.
  #108  
Old 06-12-2019, 06:30 PM
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I went to bed about midnight with Pakistan somewhere like 1 wicket for 40 and I thought on that ground Pakistan would win. I think Australia can count themselves lucky- Pakistan were inept in the field and Australia has a very ordinary attack once Cummins and Starc have finished. No idea why their best spinner is not playing.
  #109  
Old 06-14-2019, 11:34 AM
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So, England have saved the sunny weather for themselves and used it to stomp all over WI. I thought the two drops would cost us (especially as they were off Gayle and Russell) but fortunately neither went on to a big score. Good bowling by our attack with an unlikely bonus of 2 wickets from Root. And once again a solid start set an impregnable platform for the chase, despite Roy's injury. The current top 4 in the table (NZ, Eng, Aus, India) now looking by far the most likely to be contesting the semis, though no doubt Pakistan will have something to say about that.
  #110  
Old 06-15-2019, 05:17 AM
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I think it will be England and India in the final, althought the Kiwi's are always a good one day team (and Test Team). Australia have too many weaknesses and if Starc/ Cummins get hurt or Warner/ Smith don't fire you can write them off. Nevertheless they are doing better than I expected and maybe the cards will fall into place.

In last nights game (for me) Root got a couple of unexpected wickets. It seems as if the Windies are running out of steam.

Although I will be cheering for Australia, if I bet on cricket I would have money on India.
  #111  
Old 06-15-2019, 09:32 AM
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I have to say that Gayle seems to be a bit of a busted flush. Of course he is immense fun and entertaining in many different ways but is he really the player that the Windies need?
Are they playing him out of habit? Anyroad, it was a bit of stroll for England yesterday and all the more impressive given that they were down a couple of front line batsmen.

Today sees what should be stroll for Australia but as I speak Sri Lanka are 94-0 after 11 chasing 335. Who are this team? and what have they done with the real Sri Lanka?

Afghanistan are stuttering to 69-2 after 20 against NZ with rain in the air. A stop-start game isn't going to help them at all.
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  #112  
Old 06-15-2019, 09:36 AM
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There's been a lot of chat about the current top four being nailed on finishers, but there's a lot of games to go and there's some big games to play. And Sri Lanka here are showing that all those "should win" calculations don't mean anything until you get out there and play!
  #113  
Old 06-15-2019, 02:33 PM
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The real Sri Lanka return (to earth, with a thud) and join West Indies and Pakistan on the list of teams that had chances against Australia, but couldn't close it out.

England may yet mess it up (or India might lose to Pakistan), but right now the top four are looking pretty secure.
  #114  
Old 06-15-2019, 08:27 PM
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The real Sri Lanka return (to earth, with a thud) and join West Indies and Pakistan on the list of teams that had chances against Australia, but couldn't close it out.

England may yet mess it up (or India might lose to Pakistan), but right now the top four are looking pretty secure.
I think you are very close to the mark with teams that "had a chance against Australia but couldn't close it out". The better teams will close it out.

When I went to bed Sri Lanka looked very comfortable.
  #115  
Old 06-15-2019, 08:37 PM
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I have to say that Gayle seems to be a bit of a busted flush. Of course he is immense fun and entertaining in many different ways but is he really the player that the Windies need?
Are they playing him out of habit? Anyroad, it was a bit of stroll for England yesterday and all the more impressive given that they were down a couple of front line batsmen.

Today sees what should be stroll for Australia but as I speak Sri Lanka are 94-0 after 11 chasing 335. Who are this team? and what have they done with the real Sri Lanka?

Afghanistan are stuttering to 69-2 after 20 against NZ with rain in the air. A stop-start game isn't going to help them at all.
I tend to agree re Gayle, although one good innings from him and the game is virtually over. However they are pretty far apart these days. Really doesn't strike me as a team player and quite a few reservations were aired after his infamous "Don't blush baby" several years ago.
  #116  
Old 06-16-2019, 05:29 AM
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There's no team in "Universe Boss" and his knees have been gone for years. But he was absolutely monstrous against England in the Caribbean last winter (400+ runs in 4 innings). And he hasn't exactly been bad in this World Cup - his lowest score in three innings is 26 - so you can hardly blame him for West Indies failing. Maybe his timing has started to go just slightly and the big outfields are making it show.

It looks like ComedyPakistan have turned up to play India. This could be a very long day for them.
  #117  
Old 06-16-2019, 06:51 AM
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1-206 after 35 without significant fireworks so 350 is on
  #118  
Old 06-16-2019, 09:09 AM
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After a rain break, Kholi misses a hook by inches but walks. Blames a click in his MRF bat handle.
Heh, opportunity for another bat maker to be his sponsor.
  #119  
Old 06-16-2019, 09:10 AM
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336/5. It's raining at the break, so overs may well be lost for Pakistan, which may actually sit in their favour - the current D/L/S rules slightly favour the team batting second, it seems, but whatever it is in whatever overs they are alloted, it's going to be a tough ask. But Pakistan have been batting big in the series against England before the tournament started, so who knows?
  #120  
Old 06-17-2019, 12:32 PM
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I will tactfully not elaborate on the predictions in the previous post, mainly because Bangladesh have just smashed up my prediction of WI as dark horse for the top 4 by thrashing them today. A great moment for Bangladeshi cricket, well done to them. I don't think they'll make the semis but they are obviously still progressing and no side can take them lightly any more. As for Windies, I'd have thought they'd have learnt from their last game that they need another bowling tactic apart from banging it in short, but apparently not. Shame for them that they haven't managed to produce their best form when it matters.
  #121  
Old 06-17-2019, 03:26 PM
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I will tactfully not elaborate on the predictions in the previous post, mainly because Bangladesh have just smashed up my prediction of WI as dark horse for the top 4 by thrashing them today.
I did say it was a tough ask!

Well played to Bangladesh, and I'm a bit glad we've already played them. I think they'll falter against better opposition, but I think they are more likely to contest a semi final spot than WI or Pakistan now.
  #122  
Old 06-18-2019, 08:15 AM
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That was a rather good batting performance by England. Morgan breaks Chris Gayle's record of most sixes in a ODI innings, smashing 17 of them in his 148. Root and Bairstow fall just short of centuries. 31 off 9 in a cameo by Ali. England break their own ODI record of most sixes in an innings, with 25. Just failed to reach 400. Rashid Khan breaks record for most runs conceded in a World Cup match with 110, off only 9 overs. 142 runs for England off the last 10 overs. Oh, and James Vince scratched around for 26.
  #123  
Old 06-18-2019, 09:27 AM
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Morgan was epic. Barely a mis-struck six among them. His 148 was off 71 balls, that was immense in itself but the fact is that he hit a century in sixes alone. Oh, and he didn't come in until the 30th over.. But then I suppose it meant he could rest his bad back.

Afghanistan currently 52-2 in a forlorn chase. I think the rise of Afghanistan cricket is one of the great, unheralded sporting stories of the last decade but I'm afraid they aren't going to get much glory out of this.
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  #124  
Old 06-18-2019, 09:57 AM
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It's been suggested on Cricinfo commentary that Afghanistan's best plan is to bat out as many overs as possible and forget about the score, they're not going to reach the target but they can get some useful experience against a top bowling attack. If they make it past 40 overs they can count that as an achievement, I think. On that basis, they're doing pretty well.

From an England perspective, obviously we want to restrict them to as few runs as possible to boost our NRR, just in case that becomes important later on.
  #125  
Old 06-18-2019, 11:00 AM
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Oh, and James Vince scratched around for 26.
In classic James Vince fashion, he got to 21, tried to give it away, was dropped, got himself up to 26 and then succeeded in giving it away.

This injury to Roy could be heavily consequential. Still India's tournament to lose in my view.

Last edited by Cumbrian; 06-18-2019 at 11:01 AM.
  #126  
Old 06-18-2019, 11:39 AM
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Agreed. They have the best bowler and one of the best batsmen. But they could get injured too, of course.

There might be a case for Roy slogging for boundaries and not running at all being more effective than Vince...
  #127  
Old 06-18-2019, 12:03 PM
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I think they need to have a serious think about opening with Root, for a number of reasons. Firstly, it gives him the most time at the crease - almost alone amongst England's batsmen, he is best playing a long innings at a run a ball - everyone else can go off in short bursts, so give him the slot which allows him to build a long innings of substance with everyone else going after it. Second, he doesn't slog much, but if he does in the opening 10 overs, there's not many men out, so his margin for error is bigger, should he feel the need. Third, and something we saw in the WI game, it guarantees a partnership with Bairstow - both of whom like to run hard between the wickets. England should always have knocked off the WI total - but Roy was injured and Morgan was injured, so it could have been a problem had a couple of quick wickets gone down. Instead, they didn't just slog, they kept the scoreboard moving by running - everything that doesn't go to the fence in the first 10 overs, given the fielding restrictions, becomes a 3.

Hales being a dickhead has not been helpful. The above is clearly a second best scenario. Ideally Roy would be fit and we'd keep attacking the first 10 overs by bashing it around.

Last edited by Cumbrian; 06-18-2019 at 12:05 PM.
  #128  
Old 06-18-2019, 03:34 PM
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Brutal by Morgan. He out-Gayled Chris Gayle, and not many people can claim that. Last game, England didn't hit a single six in motoring to 200+ at better that a run a ball, so maybe they thought they had some catching up to do. Incidentally, Afghanistan are yet to play West Indies, and the spectators for that one might need hard hats if Gayle decides he wants his record back.

The downside of opening with Root is that the innings loses its spine if he gets a great ball in the first couple of overs. Morgan / Stokes / Buttler are all at their best with him at the other end, because they know they don't have to smash everything to keep the scoreboard moving. But how many more times does Vince have to fail before the management decide he can't cut it at this level?
Any supporters for moving Moeen back to opener?

Some potential pressure games coming up - New Zealand - South Africa (who aren't as bad as they've played) is a potential banana skin, Bangladesh have to beat India or Australia or resign themselves to 5th place - and Australia look the easier challenge - and Sri Lanka have to beat England or go home (and it's also the last game England can't afford to lose).
  #129  
Old 06-18-2019, 04:21 PM
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The more I see of him the more I think of Vince as this generation's Mark Ramprakash - hugely talented, loads of runs, enjoyable to watch (well, not today), just can't quite cut it at the very top.
  #130  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:41 PM
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Found myself getting surprisingly into NZ/SA, even though the result isn't likely to be hugely important from an England perspective. Been a fairly balanced game all the way through, but in the last few overs NZ have looked well in control and cruising to their target, with SA all over the place - dropping catches, missing run-outs, failing to review a decision that would have seen Williamson depart some time ago. And yet - here is a wicket, with 12 runs required from the final 2 overs! Exciting finish coming up, potentially.
  #131  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:58 PM
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....and Kane Williamson shows what he thinks of exciting finishes, bringing up his hundred with the winning six. NZ are heading for the semis, and SA still don't know where they're going.
  #132  
Old 06-19-2019, 02:17 PM
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Smacking a six in the final over to bring up your hundred and level the scores seems pretty exciting to me.

Does this mean only Bangladesh has a shot of making the semi finals?
  #133  
Old 06-19-2019, 07:05 PM
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Would it be fair to say that England and India are roughly comparable on batting? They seem to be the only teams capable of consistently scoring 350+ and I suspect the match on the 30th will be a warm-up for the final.

I'm not yet convinced that New Zealand are as good as they look on the table right now. They've had fairly comfortable opponents and were destroyed by West Indies in a warm-up match (although they also beat India). They and Australia are probably the best of the rest but with a significant margin to England-India. There's still some mythology hanging around Australia but I don't think they have the firepower to beat either of them.
  #134  
Old 06-20-2019, 12:26 AM
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Well that's the smart way to bet and one of Eng/Ind is short odds to win it.
But the odds are way longer that it will be an End/Ind final.

In the semis, one of Aust/NZ will win over End/Ind, or one semi will be Eng v Ind.

At the start of the tournament there was speculation that England could score 500.
Now the bar has been lowered to "consistently scoring 350".

Each of the form 4 wouldn't be overawed chasing 350 against any of the others.

But as the old adage goes, there are 10 good deliveries in any innings and the rest are crap.
So it will break down to a short burst of quality bowling wrecking an innings and Boult/Henry or Starc/Cummins are as likely to do it as any other.
  #135  
Old 06-20-2019, 01:02 AM
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I'm not so sure 350 isn't a winning score against Australia. If Maxwell and Finch both have a good day, or one scores big with cameos from Smith, Carey, etc, they can do it, but I think they'd be hard-pressed to get beyond 350. An equivalent good day for England and India seems to be >400. West Indies too but they drop a lot further if one of their big hitters fails.

Yes, Starc/Cummins can wreck those plans but they really both have to bowl well because there's not much threat from the other bowlers (maybe unless Lyon gets a game, although I saw what happened to Rashid Khan).

Maybe I've underestimated NZ, I know hardly anything about their recent form before the WC.
  #136  
Old 06-20-2019, 06:40 PM
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Maybe I've underestimated NZ.
Everybody does, including themselves.

This tournament is still England's to lose but ...

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I'm not so sure 350 isn't a winning score against Australia. If Maxwell and Finch both have a good day, or one scores big with cameos from Smith, Carey, etc, they can do it, but I think they'd be hard-pressed to get beyond 350. An equivalent good day for England and India seems to be >400.
In contrast to:
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That was a rather good batting performance by England. Morgan breaks Chris Gayle's record of most sixes in a ODI innings, smashing 17 of them in his 148. Root and Bairstow fall just short of centuries. 31 off 9 in a cameo by Ali. England break their own ODI record of most sixes in an innings, with 25. Just failed to reach 400.
Both Finch and Warner were in 2nd/3rd gear for most of the first 25 overs, pushing dot balls of the middle to cover rather than working them around for a single behind square.
Tactical error not putting Maxwell in at #3 but good to see Khawaja show that (like Kohli) you can score at 125/100 playing solid cricket shots without the ramps, slogs and switch hitting circus acts.
Maxwell get's BBQ'd. Khawaja gets a dose of remorse and blows a ton.
Smith has a brain fade, Aust have lost 3 for 2 and the innings peters out with nudging and noodling. 381.

I'm not yet convinced Aust is ranked better than 4th here but a metric shed load goes wrong vs Bangladesh and they still 381 while leaving over 50 in the locker room.

I expect we'll see to absolutely cracking semi-finals and a blowout win in the final to India or England.
  #137  
Old 06-20-2019, 09:23 PM
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I'm not yet convinced Aust is ranked better than 4th here but a metric shed load goes wrong vs Bangladesh and they still 381 while leaving over 50 in the locker room.
Yes, they proved me wrong. I didn't think Warner was capable of an innings like that any more.

I've never understood the handling of Maxwell. He's either not picked or put too far down the order to have full impact.
  #138  
Old 06-20-2019, 10:30 PM
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Australian tactical thinking is a generation behind current practice, but shit hey we've won 5 of 11 WCs plus two runner-ups so until it's shown to be broke, why fix?

The Aust thinking is that a ODI innings is built around one of the top 3 batting deep and scoring a century and cameos from the middle order to put the cream on top.

Modern thinking is that you can have those cameos performing anywhere in the order to maintain momentum. Indeed the innings can comprise only cameos. It doesn't matter who/how/when the runs are scored. Of course, that thinking hasn't actually won anything yet so it might just be a flash in the pan. Modern thinking would unquestionably work if a team could amend the batting order with retirements as the match situation saw fit without the retired batsman being considered as dismissed. You'd send out batsmen so as to keep a right/left dasher/nudger pair at the crease for the entire innings.

The alpha males who pick and play for Australia have no truck at all with the notion of pitch hitters. Everyone in the order is expected to be able to adapt to the match requirements i.e. "score some bloody runs or get out."

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  #139  
Old 06-21-2019, 03:10 AM
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In baseball, they do some stats stuff like park adjusted metrics. I would be interested in seeing what could be done with ground adjusted stats in cricket. 380 at Trent Bridge might only be "worth" 350 or so, given how notoriously flat the wicket is and the new stand having created a very short boundary to one side of the square. Trent Bridge has been the venue for the two highest scores ever in ODI cricket - the next biggest was put up against the Netherlands and the two after that were done at altitude in South Africa. It was also the venue for a domestic game of one day cricket in the recent past that saw 430 play 430. Honestly, it's the type of venue that the purist in me wishes wasn't being used for international cricket anymore - but people like to see 6s, so that's not likely to happen any time soon.

Fair play to the Aussies - you've still got to put the numbers up (and doing it against Bangladesh is probably "worth" more than the 400 England put up against an Afghanistan who I have been quite disappointed by) but clearing 400, whilst impressive, is still very rare and arguably not necessary. Run chases above 350 are very difficult and this Aussie line up seems more than capable of getting that sort of total in any game. Clearly they cannot be taken lightly.

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  #140  
Old 06-21-2019, 11:35 AM
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This England collapse is fascinating to watch. Still not over.
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  #141  
Old 06-21-2019, 12:21 PM
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...and now it is. Wow! Tough road ahead in last 3 games for England, but I think are still favorites to make the final 4.
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  #142  
Old 06-21-2019, 03:00 PM
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Wow indeed. Great to see Malinga getting wickets still. And the tournament really needed a result like this.
  #143  
Old 06-22-2019, 09:57 AM
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Talking of upsets, Afghanistan are 67/2 chasing a mere 224 to beat India. It's a long way to go (and Afg will need to score quicker than they are to get there), but it would really through the cat into the pigeons.

WI started well against NZ (getting them 7/2 in the first over!) but NZ have recovered and are on their way to a handy total. Still, WI are decent chasers!
  #144  
Old 06-22-2019, 03:45 PM
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Man that guy whose name I can't quite remember ran New Zealand close. I was sure that was going to be yet another six.
  #145  
Old 06-22-2019, 03:54 PM
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So both India and NZ pushed all the way by Afghanistan and WI, but in marked contrast to England against SL, got the job done in the end. Which to be honest is probably just as well for England, as they should now be thinking of securing fourth place rather than going for first.
  #146  
Old 06-22-2019, 08:09 PM
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One of the problems Australia has if Khawaja. I can't understand the fascination- his average is rubbish and when he came in the other night the run rate slowed and Warner couldn't get the strike. Ended up getting 89 but he also ran Maxwell out and Smith had to try and lift the run rate and was also out. In the end Australia had arather easy win but it could have been far better. The team selection mystifies me.
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Old 06-23-2019, 04:44 PM
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Some mad scientist has created a site that calculates all scenarios that can put a given team in the top 4. As of now for instance there are 11 scenarios where the West Indies make the top 4.

Unfortunately it doesn't include washouts so it's not perfect but it's still pretty cool to play around with.
  #148  
Old 06-23-2019, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by lisiate View Post
Some mad scientist has created a site that calculates all scenarios that can put a given team in the top 4. As of now for instance there are 11 scenarios where the West Indies make the top 4.

Unfortunately it doesn't include washouts so it's not perfect but it's still pretty cool to play around with.
That site gave me a toothache. Strange how RSA have fallen apart- my money would be that the obvious 4 will make the finals.
  #149  
Old 06-24-2019, 07:57 PM
penultima thule is offline
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The way the fixture cookie has crumbed means we now have virtually a mini-pre SF tournament for ENG/IND/NZ/AUS

ENG has the toughest run home, playing the three nations above them.
IND has the easiest and an extra game so four wins is likely to pinch top spot.

Both AUS and NZ are virtually assured of a top four finish so the remaining surprise result is ENG v ENG expectations and the question is whether the best team (ENG) with their high momentum batting strategy (which is based on batting on roads) can hold their nerve should the groundsmen serve up pitches with just a bit of juice in them for the leather chuckers.

As Mark Butcher commented on the TGC podcast, it's one thing belting up 450 plus vs AUS/IND in the middle of just another ODI series and quite another chasing 250 vs anybody in a World Cup.

Last edited by penultima thule; 06-24-2019 at 07:57 PM.
  #150  
Old 06-24-2019, 08:59 PM
lisiate is offline
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The standings table looks pretty neat right now, with a single team on each point total from 5 to 11. 13 points guarantees a spot in the last 4, but 11 should be enough in most scenarios. Working from the bottom up:

Afghanistan and South Africa are both eliminated, but can still spoil other team's chances.

The West Indies currently have 3 points, and could get a maximum of 9. Qualification is still possible if England to lose all their remaining games, and Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Pakistan don't win too many.

Pakistan currently have 5 points, and could get up to 11. Win all their games (against NZ, Afghanistan and Bangladesh) and have one of the current top 4 lose all theirs and the spirit of '92 will live on.

Sri Lanka are on 6, and could go up to 12. Their remaining games are against South Africa, West Indies and India. win all three and have England lose a couple and they're in.

Bangladesh are on 7, but only have two matches remaining so can only reach 11 total. India and Pakistan are their last two matches.

England are on 8, but their last three games are against Australia, India and New Zealand, they need to win two of those to be sure.

India on 9 with a game in hand, so could get up to 15. West Indies, Bangladesh, England and Sri Lanka all look winnable enough, winning any two should do it though.

Australia on 10, face England, New Zealand and South Africa. One win is all they need.

New Zealand on 11, with Pakistan, Australia and England to go. Win one and they're safe, one rain abandonment would probably be enough. Could easily drop all three though.

TL;DR The top 4 are probably through, but I'm suspicious we'll get a surprise.
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