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  #601  
Old 08-12-2019, 09:17 PM
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And, I suppose, one might note that "massage time" seems to have also been a codeword for Steve Wynn, as well:

https://www.reviewjournal.com/busine...st-steve-wynn/

Gotta love koinkidinks.
  #602  
Old 08-12-2019, 10:42 PM
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No, as of July 29 he was taken off suicide watch.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/atto...ry?id=64924045
And why was that?
Here may lie a clue
One of the two people guarding Jeffrey Epstein when he apparently hanged himself in a federal jail cell was not a full-fledged correctional officer …


A New York Times investigation published last year detailed this practice, under which federal prisons are so strapped for correctional officers that they regularly compel teachers, nurses, secretaries and other support staff members to step in. The practice has grown at some prisons as the Trump administration has curtailed the hiring of correctional officers. Many of these staff members only receive a few weeks’ training in correctional work, and, while required by contract to serve as substitutes, are often uncomfortable in the roles. …
WH negligence left Jeff poorly guarded.
  #603  
Old 08-12-2019, 10:53 PM
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Here may lie a clue
One of the two people guarding Jeffrey Epstein when he apparently hanged himself in a federal jail cell was not a full-fledged correctional officer …


A New York Times investigation published last year detailed this practice, under which federal prisons are so strapped for correctional officers that they regularly compel teachers, nurses, secretaries and other support staff members to step in. The practice has grown at some prisons as the Trump administration has curtailed the hiring of correctional officers. Many of these staff members only receive a few weeks’ training in correctional work, and, while required by contract to serve as substitutes, are often uncomfortable in the roles. …
WH negligence left Jeff poorly guarded.
Oh come on. It doesn't matter how shitty the prison system has got, he'd have been at the top of the pile.
  #604  
Old 08-12-2019, 10:58 PM
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Who would have thought a month ago this thread would be questioning how Epstein was taken off suicide watch and allowed to kill himself in prison?
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Old 08-12-2019, 11:24 PM
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Raw Story reports that the Wall Street Journal says that Epstein's attorneys asked for him to be taken off suicide watch. Unfortunately, while Raw Story links to the Journal, the Journal is paywalled and I can't read the linked article. Anyone have access to it?

Suicide watch, as I recall, is pretty degrading and uncomfortable; perhaps that's why he his attorneys wanted him taken off suicide watch.

Last edited by galen ubal; 08-12-2019 at 11:24 PM.
  #606  
Old 08-12-2019, 11:39 PM
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Right, but according to the NYT piece I linked above, between the trained guard and the fill-in, his observation interval (non-suicide watch) was somewhere between an hour and two hours when it was supposed to be half an hour.
  #607  
Old 08-13-2019, 08:11 AM
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And here we go (as predicted by someone above):
Quote:
FBI raids Jeffrey Epstein’s private island in ongoing probe after his apparent suicide death
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...spm-story.html

Quote:

“We were sailing directly into the FBI raid. Officers were everywhere. It was pretty nuts,” Capt. Kelly Quinn with Salty Dog Day Sails told the Daily News.

She said her charter boat was alone in the cove near Epstein’s multimillion-dollar estate on Little St. James, south of St. Thomas, when she noticed the agents about 150 feet away on the dock.

“They had uniforms with FBI in big, bold yellow letters. They were combing the place, getting in golf carts, marching the perimeter, making their rounds, entering buildings,” she said.
My guess is that they're unlikely to find anything (Epstein might have been scum, but he was pretty smart scum), but it should keep the story churning for awhile.
  #608  
Old 08-13-2019, 09:08 AM
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There's a new article saying that Epstein claimed to have dirt on some techies.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...igarchs-report
Quote:
quote from not one of the peachiest of sources:
Epstein said this stigma did not stop people from confiding in him and even told Stewart that he wanted to become a minister so that they could feel assured their disclosures would remain confidential.
Aw cool! Jeffrey in clerical vestments with one of those white thingies at the neckline. Totally satisfying image. I'm sure he would've made a fine sounding board for those wanting to confide in him about wanting to boff his teenaged victims.
  #609  
Old 08-13-2019, 11:22 AM
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Users of 4chan found out about Epstein's death almost an hour before it was announced.
  #610  
Old 08-13-2019, 12:39 PM
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It seems odd that someone would post detailed info about the medical procedures.
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  #611  
Old 08-13-2019, 12:50 PM
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Aw cool! Jeffrey in clerical vestments with one of those white thingies at the neckline. Totally satisfying image. I'm sure he would've made a fine sounding board for those wanting to confide in him about wanting to boff his teenaged victims.

That "white thingy" is called a Roman collar.
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Old 08-13-2019, 01:06 PM
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The FBI and NYPD raided Epstein's private island, which was rumored to be rife with video cameras. Presumably looking for tapes.
https://www.palmerreport.com/analysi...n-tapes/20005/
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Old 08-13-2019, 01:11 PM
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The FBI and NYPD raided Epstein's private island, which was rumored to be rife with video cameras. Presumably looking for tapes.
https://www.palmerreport.com/analysi...n-tapes/20005/
...to be greeted by dangling wires and empty cabinets.

  #614  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:14 PM
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Aw cool! Jeffrey in clerical vestments with one of those white thingies at the neckline. Totally satisfying image. I'm sure he would've made a fine sounding board for those wanting to confide in him about wanting to boff his teenaged victims.
Wonder where he got the idea?
  #615  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:22 PM
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The FBI and NYPD raided Epstein's private island, which was rumored to be rife with video cameras. Presumably looking for tapes.
https://www.palmerreport.com/analysi...n-tapes/20005/
If he was ordering a tile extractor to be sent to his home, FBI will basically need to deconstruct all of his residences to look in the walls, ceiling, floors, etc. They'll need to dig up all of his lawn, look for any buried cables that go out into the water, etc. If the house wasn't already turn up, the odds are probably fairly good that there are still hidden videos somewhere. Ideally, some of them will have been hidden before digital media and cryptography came along but my guess would be that Epstein was fairly technical, so they'll likely need to figure out how to decrypt the files.

If everything was already torn up when they got there then, I would assume, the real hunt would be to find any traces of info that might lead them to his new stash point.

It's unlikely that Epstein expected to get caught, let alone get caught and then die. He only needed to be resistant to a search warrant, so far as he would have been concerned. It's unlikely that he was so careful that you can't find nearly everything he has once given the freedom to do anything you want, for as long as you want.
  #616  
Old 08-13-2019, 03:45 PM
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2 guards suspended and warden reassigned after Epstein death
Quote:
Two guards assigned to watch Jeffrey Epstein the night he apparently killed himself in jail have been placed on leave and the warden has been removed as federal authorities investigate the financier's death, the Justice Department said Tuesday.
Quote:
One of Epstein's guards the night he took his own life was not a regular correctional officer, one of those familiar with the case said.

Serene Gregg, president of the American Federation of Government Employees Local 3148, told The Washington Post that one of the guards was a fill-in who had been pressed into service because of staffing shortages.
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  #617  
Old 08-13-2019, 04:30 PM
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Surprised it was not TMZ, they seem to break stories before others such as Michael Jackson's death. They have lots of sources all over.
  #618  
Old 08-13-2019, 06:46 PM
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I'm sure the Trump administration will take this investigation of mismanagement in a federal prison all the way up to the middle.
  #619  
Old 08-14-2019, 12:33 AM
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...to be greeted by dangling wires and empty cabinets.

Which would be done by ... whom? Ghislaine Maxwell, perhaps? She does stand to get reamed, here, but how much could she torch?
  #620  
Old 08-14-2019, 03:54 AM
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I'm sure the Trump administration will take this investigation of mismanagement in a federal prison all the way up to the middle.

That would be a change in direction for them, what with their careering to the bottom every bloody day.
  #621  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:34 AM
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Jeffrey Epstein Death: 2 Guards Slept Through Checks and Falsified Records
Quote:
The two staff members who were guarding the jail unit where Jeffrey Epstein apparently killed himself fell asleep and failed to check on him for about three hours, then falsified records to cover up their mistake, according to several law enforcement and prison officials with knowledge of the matter.
The guards fell asleep. That reminds me of something.....


Anyhoo, I am starting to think of a conspiracy theory. Epstein is not dead. That was not his body they found in the cell, but the body of someone with a similar look. The guards 'slept' as Epstein was whisked away and a body brought in. There will be a cursory autopsy. No DNA test. The 'time of death' will be smudged on the report. Epstein is being transported to island, the one just 'searched' and abandoned by the FBI.
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  #622  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:40 AM
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Surprised it was not TMZ, they seem to break stories before others such as Michael Jackson's death. They have lots of sources all over.
I'm assuming one of the guards or EMT's is a poster.
  #623  
Old 08-14-2019, 01:09 PM
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Jeffrey Epstein Death: 2 Guards Slept Through Checks and Falsified Records


The guards fell asleep. That reminds me of something.....


Anyhoo, I am starting to think of a conspiracy theory. Epstein is not dead. That was not his body they found in the cell, but the body of someone with a similar look. The guards 'slept' as Epstein was whisked away and a body brought in. There will be a cursory autopsy. No DNA test. The 'time of death' will be smudged on the report. Epstein is being transported to island, the one just 'searched' and abandoned by the FBI.
Either that, or "Joseph Eberhousen" becomes the newest resident of Cody, WY.
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  #624  
Old 08-14-2019, 02:22 PM
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Either that, or "Joseph Eberhousen" becomes the newest resident of Cody, WY.
I hope somebody warns the junior high schools in Cody.
  #625  
Old 08-14-2019, 03:02 PM
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Jeffrey Epstein Death: 2 Guards Slept Through Checks and Falsified Records


The guards fell asleep. That reminds me of something.....


Anyhoo, I am starting to think of a conspiracy theory. Epstein is not dead. That was not his body they found in the cell, but the body of someone with a similar look. The guards 'slept' as Epstein was whisked away and a body brought in. There will be a cursory autopsy. No DNA test. The 'time of death' will be smudged on the report. Epstein is being transported to island, the one just 'searched' and abandoned by the FBI.
I actually saw a meme that the body was Hillary's brother's and not Epstein's.
  #626  
Old 08-14-2019, 06:16 PM
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Either that, or "Joseph Eberhousen" becomes the newest resident of Cody, WY.
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I hope somebody warns the junior high schools in Cody.
Or they could just settle "Joseph" in Gadsden, Alabama, home of Roy Moore, where the junior high schools are already on alert.
  #627  
Old 08-14-2019, 07:14 PM
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We're literally destroying our planet all so that a few hundred people can have enough wealth and influence to fuck all the children they want without consequence.
  #628  
Old 08-14-2019, 08:23 PM
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The guards fell asleep. That reminds me of something.....
The guards must be lazy...

I guess this is technically a conspiracy theory, as it only involved two overworked guards.
  #629  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:18 PM
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"The day Epstein won the Powerball lottery in NM, there was a "computer malfunction" that prevented the usual televised broadcast of the drawing the winning numbers. Democrat NM Governor Bill Richardson was an Epstein pedo client."

https://twitter.com/Trader_Moe/statu...10151305236482

Curious.
  #630  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:29 PM
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What proof is there that he ever won the Powerball lottery?
  #631  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:30 PM
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"The day Epstein won the Powerball lottery in NM, there was a "computer malfunction" that prevented the usual televised broadcast of the drawing the winning numbers. Democrat NM Governor Bill Richardson was an Epstein pedo client."

https://twitter.com/Trader_Moe/statu...10151305236482

Curious.
Not really, except perhaps to birdbrained conspiracy theorists who can't be bothered to use Google. Jeffrey Epstein did not win a 2008 Powerball lottery.
Quote:
In August 2008, shortly after Epstein began his 13-month prison sentence in Florida, an entity called the Zorro Trust submitted the winning ticket for an $85 million jackpot. The ticket had been bought at a convenience store in Altus, Oklahoma. (The trust took the money as a lump sum, which came to $29.3 million after taxes.)

As it happens, Epstein had an entity called the Zorro Trust; he used it to make donations to politicians in New Mexico, where he had a ranch called — yep — the Zorro Ranch. (A federal prosecutor in New Mexico has begun an investigation into whether Epstein abused underage girls at his ranch.)

A few years ago, a lawyer representing some alleged victims took the prospect of Epstein winning the lottery seriously enough that he brought it up during a deposition with Epstein’s former pilot. But the Oklahoma City newspaper, the Oklahoman, did a little more digging and discovered that the anonymous winner worked in a grocery store across the street from the convenience store where the winning ticket was sold. Apparently, she decided to use the same name for her trust as Epstein did for his.

Not everything’s a mystery. Sometimes, it’s just a coincidence.
I see the birdbrained conspiracy theorist you quoted has also managed to mix up Oklahoma, where the "Zorro Trust" Powerball winning ticket was actually purchased, with New Mexico, where Epstein's organization also called "Zorro Trust" was active with political donations.

Last edited by Kimstu; 08-14-2019 at 09:30 PM.
  #632  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by LAZombie View Post
"The day Epstein won the Powerball lottery in NM, there was a "computer malfunction" that prevented the usual televised broadcast of the drawing the winning numbers. Democrat NM Governor Bill Richardson was an Epstein pedo client."

https://twitter.com/Trader_Moe/statu...10151305236482

Curious.
https://www.inquisitr.com/5576481/je...rball-lottery/
  #633  
Old 08-14-2019, 10:00 PM
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"The day Epstein won the Powerball lottery in NM, there was a "computer malfunction" that prevented the usual televised broadcast of the drawing the winning numbers. Democrat NM Governor Bill Richardson was an Epstein pedo client."

https://twitter.com/Trader_Moe/statu...10151305236482

Curious.
Jesus, even by the standards of nutjob right wing bullshit, this is weak.
  #634  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:22 PM
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How hard do you have to hang yourself for this?

Quote:
Autopsy finds broken bones in Jeffrey Epstein’s neck, deepening questions around his death
https://t.co/81Pj7KuT0g

""Among the bones broken in his neck was the hyoid bone, which in men is near the Adam’s apple. Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject. But they're more common in victims of homicide by strangulation.""

Last edited by JohnT; 08-14-2019 at 11:27 PM.
  #635  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:42 PM
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Further...

"In a study of suicidal hangings of young-adults and middle-aged people in India, conducted from 2010 to 2013, hyoid damage was found in just 16 of 264 cases, or six percent."

Guy is a member of the 1%. He hung himself in a manner in which only 6% of those hung have the same injuries. .05% of all federal prisoners suicide.

Multiply that out and Jeffry is a very lucky man indeed - Im tired and it's late, but I think he beat .0000003% odds. How about that!

Last edited by JohnT; 08-14-2019 at 11:44 PM.
  #636  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:54 PM
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Epstein's body has been claimed by an "unidentified associate." As gthe next of kin, shouldn't it have been his brother who claimed his body?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-c...ciate-n1042551
  #637  
Old 08-14-2019, 11:59 PM
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"Yo! I'm here for the stiff! ... what's that? Yeah, yeah... his bruddah. That's who I am, his bruddah.... 'Carmine Epstein', gotta problem wit tat?... 'ID'? Don't be a fookin' wise guy, eh? Now go get my bruddah!"
  #638  
Old 08-15-2019, 12:20 AM
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How hard do you have to hang yourself for this?



https://t.co/81Pj7KuT0g

""Among the bones broken in his neck was the hyoid bone, which in men is near the Adam’s apple. Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject. But they're more common in victims of homicide by strangulation.""
Interesting. I JUST finished reading a bestselling suspense novel about a string of serial murders disguised as suicides where this was the major plot point. As I read it, I thought “What if they found a broken hyoid bone in Epstein’s neck?”. Well, I guess we’re going to find out.
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:44 AM
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How hard do you have to hang yourself for this?



https://t.co/81Pj7KuT0g

""Among the bones broken in his neck was the hyoid bone, which in men is near the Adam’s apple. Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject. But they're more common in victims of homicide by strangulation.""

I honestly cannot remember if I've ever seen a picture of the bloke. Was he portly? I can see that if he was a bit larger than your average guy, then the weight could do that.
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:24 AM
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Has it been determined that he hanged himself? Elsewhere in the thread a technique has been mentioned that involved placing a loop of material that's been fastened to a stationary object — a sink, for instance — around one's neck and twisting until it tightens enough to cut off the air supply. Essentially, auto-garotting. If this were the case, it would seem that damage to the hyoid bone may be present.

Just speculation, of course. But it seems to me that hyoid bone damage and suicide are not necessarily mutually exclusive
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:34 AM
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Epstein's body has been claimed by an "unidentified associate."
Some guy named John Barron.
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:39 AM
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I honestly cannot remember if I've ever seen a picture of the bloke. Was he portly? I can see that if he was a bit larger than your average guy, then the weight could do that.
182 pounds according to his mugshot. Not overly heavy for a six foot tall man.
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:44 AM
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I honestly cannot remember if I've ever seen a picture of the bloke. Was he portly? I can see that if he was a bit larger than your average guy, then the weight could do that.
I'm not sure how tall he was and all photos that I've seen had him in fairly thick/baggy clothing but, in the photos I saw, he looked like he was fairly buff with a bit of gut. If you've seen Stallone these days, I'd guess a pretty similar physique.

(Apologies to Sylvester Stallone for using him as a comparison to the pedo creep. I am purely talking about body shape. No other comparison is intended.)

Last edited by Sage Rat; 08-15-2019 at 01:45 AM.
  #644  
Old 08-15-2019, 09:42 AM
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Not really, except perhaps to birdbrained conspiracy theorists who can't be bothered to use Google. Jeffrey Epstein did not win a 2008 Powerball lottery.


I see the birdbrained conspiracy theorist you quoted has also managed to mix up Oklahoma, where the "Zorro Trust" Powerball winning ticket was actually purchased, with New Mexico, where Epstein's organization also called "Zorro Trust" was active with political donations.
My bad. I should have checked other sources before posting. This undermines the actual investigation into Epstein and his crimes and those who were involved in the sexual abuse of underage girls. It allows Epstein's apologists to dismiss anyone who wants the truth. Who knows? Maybe the part of the conspiracy is to disseminate false information, let people promote it, and the discredit any and all valid accusations?
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:10 AM
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My bad. I should have checked other sources before posting. This undermines the actual investigation into Epstein and his crimes and those who were involved in the sexual abuse of underage girls. It allows Epstein's apologists to dismiss anyone who wants the truth. Who knows? Maybe the part of the conspiracy is to disseminate false information, let people promote it, and the discredit any and all valid accusations?
Dude, you're not supposed to read your job description out loud.
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:10 AM
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My bad. I should have checked other sources before posting. This undermines the actual investigation into Epstein and his crimes and those who were involved in the sexual abuse of underage girls. It allows Epstein's apologists to dismiss anyone who wants the truth. Who knows? Maybe the part of the conspiracy is to disseminate false information, let people promote it, and the discredit any and all valid accusations?
Or...there are stupid people on Twitter.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:09 AM
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Has it been determined that he hanged himself? Elsewhere in the thread a technique has been mentioned that involved placing a loop of material that's been fastened to a stationary object — a sink, for instance — around one's neck and twisting until it tightens enough to cut off the air supply. Essentially, auto-garotting. If this were the case, it would seem that damage to the hyoid bone may be present.

Just speculation, of course. But it seems to me that hyoid bone damage and suicide are not necessarily mutually exclusive
Yes, he was found hanging in his cell according to the NY Post.
https://nypost.com/2019/08/12/jeffre...dsheet-source/

”Jeffrey Epstein was found hanging in his lower Manhattan jail cell with a bedsheet wrapped around his neck and secured to the top of a bunk bed, The Post has learned.

The convicted pedophile, who was 6 feet tall, apparently killed himself by kneeling toward the floor and strangling himself with the makeshift noose, law enforcement sources said Monday. He hadn’t been checked on for several hours, sources said.”


Note this isn’t the classic hanging scenario, where you’re hanging from above like a hangman’s noose. The sheet was tied to the top of a bunk bed.
  #648  
Old 08-15-2019, 11:28 AM
Kimstu is offline
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Originally Posted by LAZombie View Post
My bad. I should have checked other sources before posting. This undermines the actual investigation into Epstein and his crimes and those who were involved in the sexual abuse of underage girls.
Well said. It is never helpful to disseminate unsubstantiated gossip about anyone involved in an ongoing scandal or controversy (or anyone else, for that matter). It merely deflects attention from what needs to be investigated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAZombie
It allows Epstein's apologists to dismiss anyone who wants the truth. Who knows? Maybe the part of the conspiracy is to disseminate false information, let people promote it, and the discredit any and all valid accusations?
Oh FFS. Immediately after acknowledging that it's counterproductive and distracting to muddy the waters of an ongoing investigation with unsubstantiated gossip, you jump right to manufacturing and disseminating more unsubstantiated gossip about it.

And you're going to have to provide a cite for your claim that anybody at all is an "apologist" for Epstein or is trying to discredit any valid accusations against him. AFAICT, if there's one thing that everybody across the political spectrum seems completely agreed on, it's that the late Jeffrey Epstein was a pedophilic piece of shit whose disreputable activities are going to taint a lot of people associated with him.
  #649  
Old 08-15-2019, 05:09 PM
SteveG1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
Some guy named John Barron.
Froderick Fronkensteen or something.
  #650  
Old 08-15-2019, 06:35 PM
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I ran across this AP article:

https://apnews.com/6bd16a2216664ca1bf8eabbfebc72c7c

Basically, Epstein was not taken off suicide watch prematurely. On the contrary, he was on it twice as long as usual. When you are on suicide watch, your bedsheets and normal prison clothes are taken away and replaced by a heavy blanket and clothes that rip easily (so that they make bad materials for hanging). You are only given finger foods because you can’t have utensils. The lights are on constantly, even at night. You are not allowed to shower, exercise, or have visitors or phone calls, and you are only let out of your cell an hour a day. It’s torturous and prisoners are rarely kept on it longer than 3 days. From what I can tell, he was kept on it for up to a week.

So there was no chance of him being on prolonged suicide watch. It’s something done to a prisoner in cases of acute suicidal actions and for short periods of time.
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