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  #51  
Old 07-08-2019, 01:03 AM
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You literally said nobody ever accused Clinton of rape.
No, what I literally said, in the context of discussing whinging republicans desperately blurting out "Bill Clinton!" every time Jeffrey Epstein's name is mentioned, was:
As for Bill Clinton - as far as I can tell, no one's accused him of doing anything but catching a free plane ride (unlike Epstein, Donald Trump and Alan Dershowitz, who've all been accused of rape, directly by name.)

Your inability to follow a conversation must be a real handicap.
  #52  
Old 07-08-2019, 08:33 AM
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In all honesty, I do not understand why banging children has so often been treated as a quirk in "sophisticated" circles. Roman Polanski, Jeffery Epstein, Kevin Spacey, those British dudes. God only knows how many others.
I think there is sort of a quantum reality to these media stories... enough people simultaneously believe that ephebophilia is more understandable than pedophilia, but it didn't really happen, and anyway people are out to get him, anyway it happened a long time ago, and he's done so many good things after he did the bad thing. Which again, he did not do.

I call it quantum bullshit which is kind of like gaslighting except the abused cooperates with the abuser to keep several contradictory stories alive, because we prefer the known uncertainty to the unknown truth.
  #53  
Old 07-08-2019, 09:17 AM
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Acosta gave him the deal. Barr worked for the firm that represented Epstein. Trump ran the place where one of Epstein's underage victims was recruited, Virgins Roberts recruited at Mar a Lago.
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  #54  
Old 07-08-2019, 09:46 AM
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I didn't realize that standard issue Democrats were such Trump fans. The approval rating on Trump among Democrats seems to belie your claim here.
Dershowitz is not a Trump supporter. I believe he supported Clinton.

In any case I have been anti-Dershowitz for awhile now- as I am a libertarian that should not be a surprise.

Trump should be brought down for war crimes, but rape charges are very serious and should be investigated and prosecuted if true. Hopefully the Russophobes will move on to this, if they won’t pursue impeachment for war crimes, and give up on conspiracy theories.
  #55  
Old 07-08-2019, 09:51 AM
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"How did you spend your holiday weekend?"
"Well, I opened it by arguing that 'detention centers' were nothing like 'concentration camps', then I closed it by defending a pedophile by saying 'he was your friend, too!'. You?"
"... get away. Now."
  #56  
Old 07-08-2019, 10:13 AM
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Dershowitz is not a Trump supporter. I believe he supported Clinton.
Go back on time far enough, and Trump was a Clinton supporter. But for the past few years Dershowitz has been an “A-list” Trump apologist and frequent Hannity guest.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...appened-218359
  #57  
Old 07-08-2019, 10:39 AM
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A funny thing about Dershowitz is he was mainly hired by OJ to work on the appeal of the case. Of course there was no need for an appeal after the jury let OJ walk.
  #58  
Old 07-08-2019, 10:53 AM
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"How did you spend your holiday weekend?"
"Well, I opened it by arguing that 'detention centers' were nothing like 'concentration camps', then I closed it by defending a pedophile by saying 'he was your friend, too!'. You?"
"... get away. Now."
Right I did neither, but thanks for demonstrating your stupidity.
  #59  
Old 07-08-2019, 10:54 AM
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Go back on time far enough, and Trump was a Clinton supporter. But for the past few years Dershowitz has been an “A-list” Trump apologist and frequent Hannity guest.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...appened-218359
He initially supported Biden until Biden said something forbidden about Israel. Standard issue Dem, sorry to inform you.
  #60  
Old 07-08-2019, 11:06 AM
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He initially supported Biden until Biden said something forbidden about Israel. Standard issue Dem, sorry to inform you.
What does that have to do with Trump supporting Clinton?
  #61  
Old 07-08-2019, 11:34 AM
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What does that have to do with Trump supporting Clinton?
Nothing. He's tap dancing as fast as he can: 'Look Ma', no hands!'
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  #62  
Old 07-08-2019, 11:38 AM
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What does that have to do with Trump supporting Clinton?
It was in reference to Dershowitz being called an “A-List” Trump apologist. Kind of a misleading characterization of a Biden supporter.
  #63  
Old 07-08-2019, 11:41 AM
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Are you trying to challenge adaher for his title?
  #64  
Old 07-08-2019, 11:53 AM
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It was in reference to Dershowitz being called an “A-List” Trump apologist.
So Dershowitz is not to be trusted because he supported Clinton, but Trump can be trusted even though he supported Clinton?

You can't have it both ways.
  #65  
Old 07-08-2019, 12:44 PM
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The guy seems like a pedophile. I hope he doesn't walk the streets again and if his trial exposes some powerful political figures, let it be so. I don't care who they are, if they cavorted around with this guy and his underage girls they need to be held to account.
  #66  
Old 07-08-2019, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by willfarnaby
t was in reference to Dershowitz being called an “A-List” Trump apologist. Kind of a misleading characterization of a Biden supporter.
What a dishonest, bullshit statement.

Alan Dershowitz absolutely IS a Trump apologist, and you know it. He's been serving as a Trump apologist in print and on TV for a long time now, so much so that he bitches about liberals not inviting him to parties anymore. He has appeared on TV to serve as a Trump apologist more times than I can count. He's a more fervent Trump legal defender than some lawyers Trump has actually employed to defend him. He admits to being a Trump apologist. He's whined that it's harder on him that defendng OJ.

There is no reason Dershowitz can't claim to be a Biden supporter, or criticize any number of Trump positions or policies, and still be a Trump apologist. If you're going to try to bullshit people, at least make an effort.
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  #67  
Old 07-08-2019, 01:44 PM
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... as I am a libertarian that should not be a surprise.
What?! How am I only hearing about this just now?!
  #68  
Old 07-08-2019, 01:50 PM
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The guy seems like a pedophile. I hope he doesn't walk the streets again and if his trial exposes some powerful political figures, let it be so. I don't care who they are, if they cavorted around with this guy and his underage girls they need to be held to account.
I disagree; he doesn’t seem like a pedophile, he absolutely is one. Reading the different articles that quote investigators and witnesses/victims, there’s an overwhelming amount of evidence against him, and he quite clearly has a “type”. And that type is prepubescent/barely-pubescent girls. The anecdote from the young woman that was rejected because her “breasts were too large” seemed pretty telling on its own; he clearly wanted young girls who looked like young girls. That’s definitely pedophilia.

I do agree that he needs to be locked up forever to keep him away from kids and that others who covered for him and helped him also need to pay. (I don’t include the minors he exploited to recruit others, they were victims.)
  #69  
Old 07-08-2019, 01:59 PM
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Once again you are weirdly right and wrong at the same time.

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Dershowitz is not a Trump supporter. I believe he supported Clinton.
If "Trump supporter" means "supported candidate Trump, or the policies of president Trump", then you are correct. Dershowitz has never been a Trump supporter. In fact he's on record unambiguously self-identifying as a liberal democrat.

What he's consistently been is an obsessive devil's advocate defense attorney. He has defended some pretty scummy people. He gets cable news appearances for doing that, hence it's no surprise that he latched onto the highest-profile, scummiest criminal ever.

This makes him de facto Trump's biggest legal apologist who doesn't actually work for him. Dershowitz is on record pretty continuously since 2017 attacking the legal basis of Mueller's work while defending the legal basis of Trump's. He has absolutely become a Trump supporter and apologist.

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In any case I have been anti-Dershowitz for awhile now- as I am a libertarian that should not be a surprise.
Actually that does come as quite a surprise, as libertarians tend to be rabidly against prosecutorial overreach, especially regarding search-and-seizure and technical court proceedings. But this is probably better argued in its own thread given recent mod instructions.

Last edited by HMS Irruncible; 07-08-2019 at 02:01 PM.
  #70  
Old 07-08-2019, 02:23 PM
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So Dershowitz is not to be trusted because he supported Clinton, but Trump can be trusted even though he supported Clinton?

You can't have it both ways.
Thankfully I’m not trying to have it either way. Neither should be trusted as far as I’m concerned. Dershowitz because he is a supporter of a powerful executive and defended torture. Trump because he is a war criminal. If both or either get taken down on these accusations, that’s fine with me. Not a partisan for either major party.
  #71  
Old 07-08-2019, 02:35 PM
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Thankfully I’m not trying to have it either way. Neither should be trusted as far as I’m concerned. Dershowitz because he is a supporter of a powerful executive and defended torture. Trump because he is a war criminal. If both or either get taken down on these accusations, that’s fine with me. Not a partisan for either major party.
Dershowitz’s defense of Epstein may have been self-serving, as a couple of Epstein’s victims claim that they were pressured or forced into having sex with Dershowitz.

https://gothamist.com/2019/04/17/des...llegations.php

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 07-08-2019 at 02:35 PM.
  #72  
Old 07-08-2019, 03:05 PM
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Here's a vote for prosecuting pedophiles and separating them from society first, and Then asking whether they support Democrats or are morally bankrupt, mathtarded and otherwise incapable of independent rational thought.
  #73  
Old 07-08-2019, 03:07 PM
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The Case Against Impeaching Trump by Alan Dershowitz.

Unquestionably, without a doubt, a Trump apologist. It's right there in black and white.

WillFarnaby remains a fucking idiot.
  #74  
Old 07-08-2019, 03:13 PM
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The Case Against Impeaching Trump by Alan Dershowitz.

Unquestionably, without a doubt, a Trump apologist. It's right there in black and white.

WillFarnaby remains a fucking idiot.
It cracks me up that Trump and Hannity are praising the book, and then you have a bunch of people praising other books he wrote in the past. And the book is 71% off.
  #75  
Old 07-08-2019, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by HMS Irruncible View Post
I think there is sort of a quantum reality to these media stories... enough people simultaneously believe that ephebophilia is more understandable than pedophilia, but it didn't really happen, and anyway people are out to get him, anyway it happened a long time ago, and he's done so many good things after he did the bad thing. Which again, he did not do.

I call it quantum bullshit which is kind of like gaslighting except the abused cooperates with the abuser to keep several contradictory stories alive, because we prefer the known uncertainty to the unknown truth.
You forgot "And she knew what she was doing/she looked 18/she wasn't a virgin or anything/she got paid".

Because good girls deserve protection, but once a girl is damaged, she's a piece of trash and it's not like using her more means anything: she can't get any more trash.
  #76  
Old 07-08-2019, 03:40 PM
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Per this they found a large amount of child pornography in his Manhattan home along with his massage table and sex paraphernalia set-up in his massage room.
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  #77  
Old 07-08-2019, 04:03 PM
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"How did you spend your holiday weekend?"
"Well, I opened it by arguing that 'detention centers' were nothing like 'concentration camps', then I closed it by defending a pedophile by saying 'he was your friend, too!'. You?"
"... get away. Now."
I just heard the Dumpster say on CNN that "I've seen those centers." Yeah, the sanitized version on TV.

Does anyone know if Epstein has children of his own? His Wiki page does not mention any, and implies that he was never married.
  #78  
Old 07-08-2019, 04:10 PM
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It cracks me up that Trump and Hannity are praising the book, and then you have a bunch of people praising other books he wrote in the past.
Including this awesomely misleading quote, by someone who's been dead for 35 years:

Quote:
"Anyone interested in the true merits of criminal law and very fine writing must read Alan Dershowitz's book."
—Truman Capote
  #79  
Old 07-08-2019, 05:26 PM
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The Capote quote evidently originated with this book from '83.
  #80  
Old 07-08-2019, 05:28 PM
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It’s like a really long term form of “like farming”.
  #81  
Old 07-08-2019, 05:36 PM
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Go back on time far enough, and Trump was a Clinton supporter. But for the past few years Dershowitz has been an “A-list” Trump apologist and frequent Hannity guest.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...appened-218359
I honestly think that several years from now, when more and more of Trump's disgusting and illegal behaviour is revealed....

The (former) Trump apologists here will be all about "Well, what could you expect from Trump? He was a Democrat. He supported Bill Clinton you know."
  #82  
Old 07-08-2019, 05:37 PM
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In all honesty, I do not understand why banging children has so often been treated as a quirk in "sophisticated" circles.
Same reason that serial killers are often pedophiles or necrophiles; power tripping and insecurity. Children and corpses are helpless, unlike an adult woman (or man for that matter).

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as I am a libertarian that should not be a surprise.
Ah, a member of the political faction notorious for supporting pedophilia supports a pedophile. How shocking and surprising.
  #83  
Old 07-08-2019, 05:45 PM
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I honestly think that several years from now, when more and more of Trump's disgusting and illegal behaviour is revealed....

The (former) Trump apologists here will be all about "Well, what could you expect from Trump? He was a Democrat. He supported Bill Clinton you know."
I wouldn’t call him a Democrat but he’s not really a Republican either. He’s a Trumplicrat. He stands for whatever he thinks is in his best interests at the time. He certainly doesn’t have a long track record of being loyal to either party or its stated principles.

I think getting successfully nominated as a Republican and winning the presidency with an R next to his name says a lot more about the Republican Party than it says about him.
  #84  
Old 07-08-2019, 05:50 PM
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What?! How am I only hearing about this just now?!
This is one of the best posts ever written here.
  #85  
Old 07-08-2019, 06:00 PM
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I wouldn’t call him a Democrat but he’s not really a Republican either. He’s a Trumplicrat. He stands for whatever he thinks is in his best interests at the time. He certainly doesn’t have a long track record of being loyal to either party or its stated principles.
Well, first he'd need principles to be loyal to any.
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Old 07-08-2019, 06:05 PM
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I wouldn’t call him a Democrat but he’s not really a Republican either. He’s a Trumplicrat. He stands for whatever he thinks is in his best interests at the time. He certainly doesn’t have a long track record of being loyal to either party or its stated principles.

I think getting successfully nominated as a Republican and winning the presidency with an R next to his name says a lot more about the Republican Party than it says about him.
Don't think you quite understand. When his crimes come to light, or when the GOP is through with him they will call him a democrat, in essence blaming the democrats for his abhorrent behavior. I agree he isn't anything but pro-Trump, but when the rubber meets the road, the GOP will blame someone else. It's what they do.
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Old 07-08-2019, 06:10 PM
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Don't think you quite understand. When his crimes come to light, or when the GOP is through with him they will call him a democrat, in essence blaming the democrats for his abhorrent behavior. I agree he isn't anything but pro-Trump, but when the rubber meets the road, the GOP will blame someone else. It's what they do.
Of course.
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Old 07-08-2019, 06:24 PM
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https://twitter.com/LisPower1/status...56436369186816

"Fox anchor on Epstein charges: "Why now? 11 years ago that then-secret plea deal was reached, why is the US government taking another run at putting him behind bars."

There is no bottom with these people.
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Old 07-08-2019, 06:39 PM
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If they’d have put Chris Hansen on the case this would have been wrapped up years ago.

I would totally watch To Catch A Billionaire Predator.
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Old 07-08-2019, 08:52 PM
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https://twitter.com/LisPower1/status...56436369186816

"Fox anchor on Epstein charges: "Why now? 11 years ago that then-secret plea deal was reached, why is the US government taking another run at putting him behind bars."

There is no bottom with these people.
Because the friend of the sex trafficker - along with his many other crimes - put himself under the world's biggest microscope.
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Old 07-08-2019, 09:29 PM
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Because the friend of the sex trafficker - along with his many other crimes - put himself under the world's biggest microscope.
It REALLY makes me curious just what other sorts of hush money payments and non disclosure agreements Michael Cohen was in charge of and what he might have shared with the Southern District of New York’s prosecutors.
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Old 07-08-2019, 09:38 PM
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In all honesty, I do not understand why banging children has so often been treated as a quirk in "sophisticated" circles. Roman Polanski, Jeffery Epstein, Kevin Spacey, those British dudes. God only knows how many others.
Is it actually *children* he's accused of raping? Is the 'pedophile' label an accurate one? Because all I read is "underage" girls were involved. That could mean teenagers as old as 17. Unless these victims were pre-teen children, calling him a pedophile, while it may viscerally feel good to do so, only serves to soften the perception of what it actually means to be a pedophile. Make no mistake, I think this guy is irredeemable scum who deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison. His heinous actions speak for themselves.
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Old 07-08-2019, 09:45 PM
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Is it actually *children* he's accused of raping? Is the 'pedophile' label an accurate one? Because all I read is "underage" girls were involved. That could mean teenagers as old as 17. Unless these victims were pre-teen children, calling him a pedophile, while it may viscerally feel good to do so, only serves to soften the perception of what it actually means to be a pedophile. Make no mistake, I think this guy is irredeemable scum who deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison. His heinous actions speak for themselves.
14-15 years old for the most part. You must not have read all that much if you didn’t read that.
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Old 07-08-2019, 09:47 PM
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Don't think you quite understand. When his crimes come to light, or when the GOP is through with him they will call him a democrat, in essence blaming the democrats for his abhorrent behavior. I agree he isn't anything but pro-Trump, but when the rubber meets the road, the GOP will blame someone else. It's what they do.
It's already going on in both threads, where people repeatedly bring up Bill Clinton's name for the favorite trick of conservatives: bothsideserism.
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Old 07-08-2019, 10:04 PM
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14-15 years old for the most part. You must not have read all that much if you didn’t read that.
I didn't, you're right. I didn't claim to have read much. Looking at the post now, I think i worded some of it poorly. When i said "all i read" was that the victims were underage, I simply meant "the only part I read" said the victims were underage.
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Old 07-08-2019, 10:39 PM
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Well, first he'd need principles to be loyal to any.
Reminds me of this quote from the movie Paper Moon:

Moses Pray:
I got scruples too, you know. You know what that is? Scruples?

Addie Loggins:
No, I don't know what it is, but if you got 'em, it's a sure bet they belong to somebody else!
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Old 07-08-2019, 10:52 PM
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I didn't, you're right. I didn't claim to have read much. Looking at the post now, I think i worded some of it poorly. When i said "all i read" was that the victims were underage, I simply meant "the only part I read" said the victims were underage.
This article went into a lot of detail:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Miami Herald
“By the time I was 16, I had probably brought him 70 to 80 girls who were all 14 and 15 years old. He was involved in my life for years,” said Wild, who was released from prison in October after serving three years on drug charges.

The girls — mostly 13 to 16 — were lured to his pink waterfront mansion by Wild and other girls, who went to malls, house parties and other places where girls congregated, and told recruits that they could earn $200 to $300 to give a man — Epstein — a massage, according to an unredacted copy of the Palm Beach police investigation obtained by the Herald.
Further along the article:
Quote:
“We were stupid, poor children,’’ said one woman, who did not want to be named because she never told anyone about Epstein. At the time, she said, she was 14 and a high school freshman.

“We just wanted money for school clothes, for shoes. I remember wearing shoes too tight for three years in a row. We had no family and no guidance, and we were told that we were going to just have to sit in a room topless and he was going to just look at us. It sounded so simple, and was going to be easy money for just sitting there.”

The woman, who went to Epstein’s home multiple times, said Epstein didn’t like her because her breasts were too big. The last time she went, she said, one girl came out crying and they were instructed to leave the house and had to pay for their own cab home.

Some girls told police they were coached by their peer recruiters to lie to Epstein about their ages and say they were 18. Epstein’s legal team would later claim that even if the girls were under 18, there was no way he could have known. However, under Florida law, ignorance of a sex partner’s age is not a defense for having sex with a minor.

Wild said he was well aware of their tender ages — because he demanded they be young.
The guy is a pedophile.
  #98  
Old 07-08-2019, 11:17 PM
Monty's Avatar
Monty is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manda JO View Post
In all honesty, I do not understand why banging children has so often been treated as a quirk in "sophisticated" circles. Roman Polanski, Jeffery Epstein, Kevin Spacey, those British dudes. God only knows how many others.

There's no logic to it. Look at all the abuse, lies, and false charges leveled at Woody Allen.
  #99  
Old 07-08-2019, 11:58 PM
galen ubal is offline
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The SDNY is arguing that Epstein be held without bail.(PDF)
An interesting tidbit, on page 9:
Quote:
While these items were only seized this weekend and are still being reviewed, some
of the nude or partially-nude photographs appear to be of underage girls, including at least one girl
who, according to her counsel, was underage at the time the relevant photographs were taken.
Additionally, some of the photographs referenced herein were discovered in a locked safe, in which
law enforcement officers also found compact discs with hand-written labels including the
following: “Young [Name] + [Name]
,” “Misc nudes 1,” and “Girl pics nude.” The defendant, a
registered sex offender, is not reformed, he is not chastened, he is not repentant;6
rather, he is a
continuing danger to the community and an individual who faces devastating evidence supporting
deeply serious charges.
Emphasis mine.

Looks like someone may well have had some blackmail material...
  #100  
Old 07-09-2019, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not what you'd expect View Post
https://twitter.com/LisPower1/status...56436369186816

"Fox anchor on Epstein charges: "Why now? 11 years ago that then-secret plea deal was reached, why is the US government taking another run at putting him behind bars."

There is no bottom with these people.
All the Fox website headlines I saw yesterday were implicating Clinton and the Democrats. I'm guessing some Republicans are about to be exposed.
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