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  #151  
Old 07-11-2019, 01:50 PM
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Interesting.

I guess that, now that CIA has decided that Saudi Arabia is more of an enemy than an asset, they're fine to start burning the bridges.

Nader was also taken in recently.

Countdown to Tom Barrack being brought in...? Though, to be fair, I don't know that Barrack has actually done all that much slimy compared to the rest of Trump's gang. I'd be willing - so far - to put him into the category of schmoozer extraordinaire rather than a true criminal like Elliott Broidy or Epstein.
For what itís worth, in his book Fire and Fury, Michael Wolfe described Epstein,Trump and Tom Barrack as the 3 musketeers of NY nightlife back in the 1980ís and 1990ís.
  #152  
Old 07-11-2019, 02:16 PM
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For what itís worth, in his book Fire and Fury, Michael Wolfe described Epstein,Trump and Tom Barrack as the 3 musketeers of NY nightlife back in the 1980ís and 1990ís.
Thatís a SNL sketch waiting to happen. Complete with constant head-bobbing.
  #153  
Old 07-11-2019, 07:44 PM
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For what itís worth, in his book Fire and Fury, Michael Wolfe described Epstein,Trump and Tom Barrack as the 3 musketeers of NY nightlife back in the 1980ís and 1990ís.
So long as Barrack and all his partners were 18 years old or older, that is a legal thing to do.
  #154  
Old 07-11-2019, 07:59 PM
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In fairness, "future pedophile" is unlikely to appear in a background check.

High school yearbook, maybe.
I was somewhat taken aback to read that Dalton hired a college dropout to teach.

Either this is not true, and Epstein made it up, or there was something fishy going on.

Dalton is the kind of exclusive, very expensive private school where the teachers are, if anything, overqualified and quite likely to have a Ph.D. Certainly an M.A. or M.S. But no way only a high school diploma.

It's not credible. I'm not even sure it's legal, in New York State.
  #155  
Old 07-11-2019, 08:02 PM
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So long as Barrack and all his partners were 18 years old or older, that is a legal thing to do.
Iím not implying that it wasnít. Iím just saying that Trump and Epstein were closer than Trump is letting on.

Also, I think world leaders should adhere to a higher moral standard than ďtechnically legalĒ, but these days apparently thatís just me.
  #156  
Old 07-11-2019, 08:02 PM
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In further fairness, not having completed a college degree does not automatically make someone "unqualified" to teach high school. I myself had an excellent high school English teacher who was a twentyish English major taking a year off from college.
I'd bet the rent it makes someone "unqualified" to teach at Dalton.
  #157  
Old 07-11-2019, 08:33 PM
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I'd bet the rent it makes someone "unqualified" to teach at Dalton.
https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/...=MP&lang=en_US

According to this, Dalton requires high school math teachers to have a 4 year college degree.
  #158  
Old 07-11-2019, 08:35 PM
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https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/...=MP&lang=en_US

According to this, Dalton requires high school math teachers to have a 4 year college degree.
40 years ago?
  #159  
Old 07-11-2019, 08:37 PM
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40 years ago?
My girlfriend taught preschool there 30 years ago. She had a B.A. I donít recall if it was required, but I suspect it was
  #160  
Old 07-12-2019, 08:49 AM
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There is breaking news that Acosta is resigning.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/whi...-over-n1029226

Trump's Labor Secretary Alex Acosta resigns after criticism over Epstein plea deal
Acosta had faced mounting criticism in recent days for his role years ago in cutting a deal for sex offender Jeffrey Epstein.

Last edited by not what you'd expect; 07-12-2019 at 08:51 AM. Reason: Cite found
  #161  
Old 07-12-2019, 09:13 AM
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at the current rate all or almost all of Trump's cabinet will be fired or forced out in his first (hopefully only) term.
  #162  
Old 07-12-2019, 09:28 AM
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at the current rate all or almost all of Trump's cabinet will be fired or forced out in his first (hopefully only) term.
I was surprised to see, when I looked after reading your post, that he still has seven out of fifteen of his original cabinet members: Perdue, Perry, Carson, DeVos, Ross, Mnuchin and Chao.

Your post is true, I just thought the attrition had been worse than it has. I guess all of the churn in other positions gives that impression.
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  #163  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:25 AM
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the 7 left are mostly in the lower profile cabinet jobs than the guys who quit or were forced out. Mnuchin is the only guy left , at Treasury, who has a high profile.
  #164  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:26 AM
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the 7 left are mostly in the lower profile cabinet jobs than the guys who quit or were forced out. Mnuchin is the only guy left , at Treasury, who has a high profile.
And he has to keep Chao to keep Mitch in line.
  #165  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:41 AM
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I was surprised to see, when I looked after reading your post, that he still has seven out of fifteen of his original cabinet members: Perdue, Perry, Carson, DeVos, Ross, Mnuchin and Chao.

Your post is true, I just thought the attrition had been worse than it has. I guess all of the churn in other positions gives that impression.
I reasonably well expect Eric Prince to get pulled in by the FBI at some point. Pretty good odds that, that will take out DeVoss.

Trump is big on keeping plausible deniability. He wants to be able to say at every moment that he got rid of anyone stinky once they got stinky. Realistically, we should be including everyone from Manafort to Acosta not just Flynn to Acosta, when we're talking about high profile losses. It should include Broidy and Cohen as well, even though that were only given positions at the RNC, not inside the White House.
  #166  
Old 07-12-2019, 11:01 AM
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Reasonably plausible:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...857491968.html

If Trump is exposed via videos in the hands of Epstein, that will be far preferable to the possibility that Russian videos of the same sort come out.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 07-12-2019 at 11:01 AM.
  #167  
Old 07-12-2019, 11:16 AM
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I was surprised to see, when I looked after reading your post, that he still has seven out of fifteen of his original cabinet members: Perdue, Perry, Carson, DeVos, Ross, Mnuchin and Chao.

Your post is true, I just thought the attrition had been worse than it has. I guess all of the churn in other positions gives that impression.
Itís a bad group when it makes Rick Perry look good.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/rick-p...cabinet-member
  #168  
Old 07-12-2019, 11:33 AM
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Itís a bad group when it makes Rick Perry look good.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/rick-p...cabinet-member
Those glasses really turned it around for him.
  #169  
Old 07-12-2019, 12:23 PM
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Those glasses really turned it around for him.
Glasses or no glasses, everybody recognizes him as Stupidman.
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  #170  
Old 07-12-2019, 02:18 PM
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Reasonably plausible:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...857491968.html

If Trump is exposed via videos in the hands of Epstein, that will be far preferable to the possibility that Russian videos of the same sort come out.
Sounds completely reasonable to me. Mainly because finding out that he has, essentially, no business presence it made me wonder exactly how he got his money -- particularly to that extent.
  #172  
Old 07-12-2019, 10:32 PM
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All this speculation about Epstein makes me wonder if he wasn’t basically the pimp/hookup for the wealthy and elite set. As in, that is the source of whatever money he has. The rest of it all is just smoke and mirrors to launder the payoffs from his rich clients. Financial services always sounds like bullshit to me anyway.

ETA: And So now I read the link already posted, which lays out this theory in better details

Last edited by Moriarty; 07-12-2019 at 10:35 PM.
  #173  
Old 07-13-2019, 12:06 AM
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I read that link- it makes the Epstein case seem like something out of Qanon. Will be interesting to watch that train crash if they refuse him bail.

And, looks like Perry isn't Stupidman when it really counts. Arranging for the long term export of natural gas is not my first choice of DOE priorities, but we do have world class gas reserves, and the world will be sending us their dough for them for a long time.
  #174  
Old 07-13-2019, 04:02 AM
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I read that link- it makes the Epstein case seem like something out of Qanon. Will be interesting to watch that train crash if they refuse him bail.
As I've noted before, one of the supremely annoying things about Trump is that it's basically impossible to talk about the guy without getting into conspiracies. If you side against Trump, on Russia, then he was part of a conspiracy to work with Russia. If you side with Trump, then there's a conspiracy to show that he did work with Russia.

He's one step away from 1MDB, Cambridge Analytica, the Khrapunov money laundering scandal, an Iranian terror funding scandal in Azerbaijan, money laundering by Deutsche Bank, and Jeffrey Epstein. That's basically insane.

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  #175  
Old 07-13-2019, 10:10 AM
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The worst part of the sweet-heart deal Epstein originally got - the charge was soliciting prostitution. Soliciting prostitution. That's right - the charge calls his underage victims prostitutes.
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  #176  
Old 07-13-2019, 12:10 PM
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All this speculation about Epstein makes me wonder if he wasn’t basically the pimp/hookup for the wealthy and elite set. As in, that is the source of whatever money he has. The rest of it all is just smoke and mirrors to launder the payoffs from his rich clients. Financial services always sounds like bullshit to me anyway
I really don’t think made his money straight up pimping, the numbers don’t add up. It would have to be a conspiracy theory scale operation for him to have as much spending money as he has. And while he and some of his rich friends seemed immune to financial scrutiny, people in public service or politics aren’t. They caught Elliot Spitzer because of suspicious financial transactions, and those were relatively small. Around 10K, IIRC. I mean, that’s a lot to pay for a date but small in the world of suspicious financial transactions. I think blackmail is more likely.

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As I've noted before, one of the supremely annoying things about Trump is that it's basically impossible to talk about the guy without getting into conspiracies. If you side against Trump, on Russia, then he was part of a conspiracy to work with Russia. If you side with Trump, then there's a conspiracy to show that he did work with Russia.

He's one step away from 1MDB, Cambridge Analytica, the Khrapunov money laundering scandal, an Iranian terror funding scandal in Azerbaijan, money laundering by Deutsche Bank, and Jeffrey Epstein. That's basically insane.
Well, remember, in the QAnon universe, Donald Trump is the one man Justice League who is going to save us all from a pedophile ring. The alleged pedophile membership list reads like a list of every politician, reporter and entertainer who has ever said anything bad about Trump.

Here’s a good article from the Atlantic about the conspiracy theorist angle.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...eories/593605/

I’m having fun checking out the conspiracy sites today. I’d probably have more fun if I was into watching videos, these crazies aren’t particularly into print and I mostly read, I don’t really like videos. But they are really fired up.

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 07-13-2019 at 12:10 PM.
  #177  
Old 07-13-2019, 05:57 PM
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I really donít think made his money straight up pimping, the numbers donít add up. It would have to be a conspiracy theory scale operation for him to have as much spending money as he has. And while he and some of his rich friends seemed immune to financial scrutiny, people in public service or politics arenít. They caught Elliot Spitzer because of suspicious financial transactions, and those were relatively small. Around 10K, IIRC. I mean, thatís a lot to pay for a date but small in the world of suspicious financial transactions. I think blackmail is more likely.
Supposedly, he's also a banker to Saudi Arabia, though I don't know why that would be since they don't really need to launder money to anywhere. But, certainly, shadow banker to the Saudis would be a decent living.
  #178  
Old 07-13-2019, 08:43 PM
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The New York Times has gone into some detail about Epstein's brief time at Dalton; apparently he was known as a bit of a creeper even back then.

Quote:
In the mid-1970s, students at one of New Yorkís most esteemed prep schools were surprised to encounter a new teacher who pushed the limits on the schoolís strict dress code, wandering the halls in a fur coat, gold chains and an open shirt that exposed his chest.

The teacher, Jeffrey Epstein, would decades later face allegations that he coerced and trafficked teenagers for sex. At the Dalton School on the Upper East Side, some students saw Mr. Epstein as an unusual and unsettling figure, willing to violate the norms in his encounters with girls.

Quote:
While [Headmaster] Mr. [Donald] Barr was strict on the school culture, he made it a point to hire teachers from unconventional backgrounds, recalled Susan Semel, a social studies teacher at Dalton from the 1960s to 1980s who later wrote a book on the history of the school.

ďBarr didnít care about credentials as long as you were interesting and knew your stuff,Ē Ms. Semel said.

Quote:
Ms. Kitziger said she became close to Mr. Epstein at a time when she was struggling at home with her parentsí divorce. She confided in him, and remembered him as caring and attentive.

ďHe listened,Ē Ms. Kitziger recalled. ďI was a 14-year-old and he helped me through a time when there wasnít anybody else to talk to. I felt like he really cared that I was having a rough go.Ē

She stressed that Mr. Epstein was always professional with her.

But other students, including Millicent Young, a graduate of the schoolís 1976 class, saw things differently. Ms. Young never had Mr. Epstein as a teacher, but the school was small enough that she would spend time around him. She recalled observing Mr. Epstein flirting with the girls at the school, which drew her attention because it was so different than how other teachers behaved.

ďThere was a real clarity of the inappropriateness of the behavior ó that this isnít how adult male teachers conduct themselves,Ē Ms. Young said.
  #179  
Old 07-14-2019, 04:41 AM
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The New York Times has gone into some detail about Epstein's brief time at Dalton; apparently he was known as a bit of a creeper even back then.
Purportedly, Barr left the school something like 8 months before Epstein started to work there, so it's probably disingenuous to even mention him - let alone complain that his standards allowed for anyone competent rather than just those who had a certificate. It is plausible that he hired Epstein, through some form of long delay, but it's not terribly germaine to the story unless there's a reason to think that there's something nefarious about it. One doubts that Epstein showed up to the interview, with whoever he interviewed with, topless, with an oiled up chest, and a dildo suction cupped to his forehead. One presumes, at least, that he dressed and acted normal for the interview. Bad hire be as it may, that's a different thing from a nefarious hire.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 07-14-2019 at 04:44 AM.
  #180  
Old 07-14-2019, 04:49 AM
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I'm not sure exactly what you mean. I don't read anything there as saying his hiring was nefarious.
  #181  
Old 07-14-2019, 06:31 AM
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I'm not sure exactly what you mean. I don't read anything there as saying his hiring was nefarious.
So why mention it at all? Why mention him rather than the person who was actually running the school at the time when Epstein was hired?

Last edited by Sage Rat; 07-14-2019 at 06:34 AM.
  #182  
Old 07-14-2019, 07:08 AM
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So why mention it at all? Why mention him rather than the person who was actually running the school at the time when Epstein was hired?
The article is quoting someone's recollection of Barr. It is possible that Barr hired Epstein for the following school year, or that his management and hiring culture persisted for some time after he left, or something else. You seem to be reading some kind of conclusion into the article that isn't there.
  #183  
Old 07-14-2019, 07:14 AM
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The article is quoting someone's recollection of Barr. It is possible that Barr hired Epstein for the following school year, or that his management and hiring culture persisted for some time after he left, or something else. You seem to be reading some kind of conclusion into the article that isn't there.
Or that the author wants to link our memory of Epstein to Bill Barr, trusting that people have fuzzy memories and won't remember that the connection was spurious and irrelevant, just that there was something about the two of them, connecting the two figures. It's far more likely that the author wants Barr to be involved in some way than that Barr is actually connected to the matter. At 8 months difference, the odds are that he had no relationship whatsoever and, certainly, if you don't know that he is connected, it makes no sense to mention him at all over the person who would more likely have been the person to do the hire.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 07-14-2019 at 07:17 AM.
  #184  
Old 07-14-2019, 07:20 AM
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(Not to mention that we're not even talking about Bill Barr here, when we say "Barr".)
  #185  
Old 07-14-2019, 09:47 AM
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If anyone is interested, here’s a link to a redacted version of Epstein’s little black book. I’ve just started perusing it I want to see how many of my own clients are listed). So far the only name I recognize is Alec Baldwin.

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...ml#document/p4
  #186  
Old 07-14-2019, 12:06 PM
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Conrad Black is listed; I recognize that name:
Quote:
Conrad Moffat Black, Baron Black of Crossharbour,[3] KCSG (born August 25, 1944), is a Canadian-born British former newspaper publisher and author. In 2007, he was convicted on four counts of fraud in U.S. District Court in Chicago. While two of the criminal fraud charges were dropped on appeal, a conviction for felony fraud and obstruction of justice were upheld in 2010 and he was re-sentenced to 42 months in prison and a fine of $125,000. In 2018, he wrote a glowing book about President Donald Trump. On May 15, 2019, he was granted a full pardon by Trump
ETA: David Blaine - the magician?
Tony Blair
Mike Bloomberg
Richard Brandon
Julia Broadhurst

LOTS of familiar names.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 07-14-2019 at 12:08 PM.
  #187  
Old 07-14-2019, 12:50 PM
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If anyone is interested, hereís a link to a redacted version of Epsteinís little black book. Iíve just started perusing it I want to see how many of my own clients are listed). So far the only name I recognize is Alec Baldwin.

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...ml#document/p4
Lots of out of date listings there, Teddy Kennedy and Peter Lawford.
George Soros's nephew's name is there, so the right wingers are probably going to want to start something with that, but Individual 1's brother, ex wife, and daughter are also in there.
Lots of people with only one name listed. I don't suppose "Elizabeth" is the Queen.
  #188  
Old 07-14-2019, 12:55 PM
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Conrad Black is listed; I recognize that name:

ETA: David Blaine - the magician?
Tony Blair
Mike Bloomberg
Richard Brandon
Julia Broadhurst

LOTS of familiar names.
You probably need a better technique than going through his Rolodex to figure out who is and isn't a perv though, I do expect, sex addiction is far more widespread and complicating for the rich and famous than we all know or expect.
  #189  
Old 07-14-2019, 01:12 PM
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Conrad Black is listed; I recognize that name:

ETA: David Blaine - the magician?
Tony Blair
Mike Bloomberg
Richard Brandon
Julia Broadhurst

LOTS of familiar names.
John Cleese is in there.

There are a lot of "massage" sections.

Also, I recognize a "regular" person (not famous) listed in there. That's... odd.
  #190  
Old 07-14-2019, 01:25 PM
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It's a curious thing when the list of phone numbers under your own name is longer than the average person's entire phone number list of other people.

I'm curious about the people marked "witness".
  #191  
Old 07-14-2019, 02:28 PM
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I'm curious about the people marked "witness".
Yes. Those are probably the first people that investigators should be calling. "Hi. You're listed as "witness" in Epstein's contact book. It's now time for you to come in and tell us what you witnessed. Thank you."
  #192  
Old 07-14-2019, 02:36 PM
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It's a curious thing when the list of phone numbers under your own name is longer than the average person's entire phone number list of other people.

I'm curious about the people marked "witness".
Also Kevin Spacey and Courtney Love. I know about a half dozen of the non-famous people listed, including the people that live across the street from him. There are a couple of misspelled names as well, I think, I see a listing for ďSteve WinnĒ.

And now I know who wired his security system. Which I was curious about, wondering if I knew them. But itís a large company based in Florida and I donít know the guy personally. And now I know who his general contractor is. I worked for them a few times but not lately.

One thing I found interesting is that there is a second, shorter list of individualís names and numbers towards the very end. Thatís where you will find Tom Barrack and Donald Trump. As well as Dershowitz and Wexner. And John Kerry and Robin Leach. That section starts on page 69::::smirk:::::::
  #193  
Old 07-14-2019, 03:58 PM
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Also Kevin Spacey and Courtney Love.
Spacey isn't circled.

The circlings seem to be people who he calls regularly (Ghislaine, Dershowitz, Cindy Lopez, his own people, etc.). That Trump is one of them does seem to put a lie to the idea that they weren't friends and, one expects, any casual look at their phone records from the time would probably reveal that they were more than acquaintances who bumped into each other at the occasional social event.

One does have to wonder what Love's story is? I am pretty willing to give most people in Epstein's vicinity a pass, but if you're a close friend then one does have to doubt. Little lesbian girls, possibly? Charity events for impoverished tween lesbians would be a way to source a few groupies.

https://web.archive.org/web/20131224...Tried_Begging/

Quote:
I know about a half dozen of the non-famous people listed, including the people that live across the street from him.
I don't know who you are, but if you happen to know how to send a letter to Bob Mueller, let me know.

(And be careful outing yourself if you need to worry about outing yourself on the Internet.)
  #194  
Old 07-15-2019, 06:53 AM
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Under the heading "Security (SC)" he has "Scotland Yard".

That raised my eyebrows but after a moment's reflection I removed the tinfoil hat, queried Google, and found that there is a Philadelphia security firm by that name.
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  #195  
Old 07-15-2019, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
I'm curious about the people marked "witness".
They like to watch.
  #196  
Old 07-15-2019, 08:58 AM
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Reasonably plausible:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...857491968.html

If Trump is exposed via videos in the hands of Epstein, that will be far preferable to the possibility that Russian videos of the same sort come out.
Makes perfect sense. Thank you.
  #197  
Old 07-15-2019, 10:02 AM
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MSNBC is reporting that prosecutors have an old (1980s) expired passport with Epstein's picture and a different name. They' don't know the issuing country but it apparently shows a place of residence in Saudi Arabia.

WTF?
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  #198  
Old 07-15-2019, 01:19 PM
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MSNBC is reporting that prosecutors have an old (1980s) expired passport with Epstein's picture and a different name. They' don't know the issuing country but it apparently shows a place of residence in Saudi Arabia.

WTF?
Manafort also had some foreign, false passports if I recall correctly.
  #199  
Old 07-15-2019, 02:05 PM
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Epstein's lawyers are arguing that he should be allowed house arrest in his Upper East Side mansion because he has been obeying the rules of his prison release. But isn't the fact that investigators found tons of videos of underage girls proof that he has, in fact, committed a crime for every day that he was in possession of those illegal materials?
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/11/us/je...ail/index.html
  #200  
Old 07-15-2019, 03:03 PM
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Epstein's lawyers are arguing that he should be allowed house arrest in his Upper East Side mansion because he has been obeying the rules of his prison release. But isn't the fact that investigators found tons of videos of underage girls proof that he has, in fact, committed a crime for every day that he was in possession of those illegal materials?
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/11/us/je...ail/index.html
ďProsecutors, however, said in court earlier this week that agents recovered as many as thousands of images of what appeared to be nude underage girls during a search of his Manhattan home in the hours after his arrest on July 6, and the possession of those images could violate the terms of his sex offender conditions.Ē

Clearly they are aware of this fact.
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