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  #51  
Old 08-04-2019, 03:21 PM
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Shooter had double drum mags with a capacity of 100 rounds. Good thing he was taken out quickly
  #52  
Old 08-04-2019, 04:18 PM
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6 officers responded within 30 seconds. 1 with a shotgun and one with a long gun. Video shows at least one officer reloading. They say he was trying to get into a bar but the video shows him running from what would have been a hail of bullets.

Shooter came to bar district in same car with sister and other person. Both were shot and sister died. Gun had multiple modification includings 2 drum magazines taped together. Not sure how that works but it shows planning and premeditation.

Mayor doing a great job keeping to the facts and asking media to do the same.

The picture of his sister looks like it was taken from the library of the college I went to. Very distinctive wall behind her.
  #54  
Old 08-05-2019, 06:11 PM
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Heavy.com reports:
You must be relieved that you don't have to defend him.
  #55  
Old 08-05-2019, 06:27 PM
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Trump has offered thoughts and prayers to those that lost their lives in Dayton:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Trump
“May God bless the memories of those that perished in Toledo.”
  #56  
Old 08-05-2019, 06:32 PM
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Trump has offered thoughts and prayers to those that lost their lives in Dayton:
Joe Biden yesterday:

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Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden expressed his sympathy for the victims of the weekend’s mass shootings in Houston and Michigan — bungling the locations of the tragedies in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio. ...
source: Biden completely flubs where mass shootings occurred

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 08-05-2019 at 06:33 PM.
  #57  
Old 08-05-2019, 06:40 PM
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Heavy.com reports:
According to cite, he sure did love him some guns.
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  #58  
Old 08-05-2019, 06:41 PM
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So did Trump.
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During the address, the President identified the wrong Ohio city, saying: “May God bless the memory of those who perished in Toledo.”
Unlike Trump, Biden did correct himself.
Quote:
Biden, 76, mistakenly referred to the shootings as “the tragic events in Houston today and also in Michigan the day before," but later corrected himself, according to a pool report.
  #59  
Old 08-05-2019, 06:46 PM
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According to cite, he sure did love him some guns.
I think he was being sarcastic in that post. He also wrote "This is America: Guns on every corner, guns in every house, no freedom but that to kill" and

Quote:
On Feb. 14, 2018, he tweeted this at Sen. Rob Portman: “@robportman hey rob. How much did they pay you to look the other way? 17 kids are dead. If not now, when?” That was the date of the mass shooting at a school in Parkland, Florida.
  #60  
Old 08-05-2019, 06:51 PM
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Not much new information. Shooter had up to 250 rounds available. police stopped him at 41 rounds. Person who came with sister and shooter interviewed but no word on it yet. Still not sure if shooter returned home to get guns or they were in trunk the whole time.

His high school "hit list" included a list of girls he wanted to rape.
  #61  
Old 08-05-2019, 06:52 PM
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I think he was being sarcastic in that post. He also wrote "This is America: Guns on every corner, guns in every house, no freedom but that to kill" and
Yet he had a 100 round mag...a standard thing for casual hunters and sportsmen to have?
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:58 PM
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I think he was being sarcastic in that post. He also wrote "This is America: Guns on every corner, guns in every house, no freedom but that to kill" and
Quote:
On Feb. 14, 2018, he tweeted this at Sen. Rob Portman: “@robportman hey rob. How much did they pay you to look the other way? 17 kids are dead. If not now, when?” That was the date of the mass shooting at a school in Parkland, Florida.
If this is true both shootings were from students who should have been treated for mental illness and banned from gun purchases.

I understand the need to keep kids out of the prison system but mental health issues need to be treated seriously.

Last edited by Magiver; 08-05-2019 at 06:59 PM.
  #63  
Old 08-05-2019, 07:01 PM
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Yet he had a 100 round mag...a standard thing for casual hunters and sportsmen to have?
No, he did not have 100 round mag. He had (2) 50 round mags rigged together. The police said there were multiple modifications made to the gun but they haven't specified what they were.
  #64  
Old 08-05-2019, 07:05 PM
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No, he did not have 100 round mag. He had (2) 50 round mags rigged together. The police said there were multiple modifications made to the gun but they haven't specified what they were.
I've heard on NPR he had a 100 round drum. But even still, if you are right, does a casual hunter/sportsman have even 1 50 round mag? Let alone taping 2 together?
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  #65  
Old 08-05-2019, 07:10 PM
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I've heard on NPR he had a 100 round drum. But even still, if you are right, does a casual hunter/sportsman have even 1 50 round mag? Let alone taping 2 together?
I don't know about a casual hunter (perhaps something similar chambered in .22LR for small game?), but I know lots of casual target shooters that have high-capacity magazines, either the drum style or the Surefire extended magazine variety.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 08-05-2019 at 07:12 PM.
  #66  
Old 08-05-2019, 07:26 PM
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mental health issues need to be treated seriously.

That simply is not going to happen until there is a major shift in society, moving away frm the stigma attached to mental health issues.
  #67  
Old 08-05-2019, 07:27 PM
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DailyMail.co.uk is reporting that the guy shot with the sister was not a boyfriend, but a friend of the shooter:

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Dayton gunman Connor Betts shot and critically injured his best friend when he killed nine victims including his own sister, Megan, 22.

DailyMail.com has exclusively learned that Charles 'Chace' Beard, 24, was the man who was in the car with Betts and Megan when they drove to the Oregon District where Betts carried out the second mass shooting of the weekend.

And Beard was among the first victims to be shot by 24-year-old Betts in his so-far motiveless massacre conducted in the early hours of Sunday morning.

He and Megan Betts appear to have been standing outside Ned Peppers Bar when Betts opened fire.

Betts, who was armed with an AR-15, wearing body armor and a mask and had as many as 250 rounds of ammunition, was taken down by cops about 30 seconds after he opened fire.

Chillingly, DailyMail.com can reveal, that Beard and Megan Betts were both 'among the first victims,' according to police. Beard appears to be friendly with Megan too, but according to his social media profile is in a relationship with another women. ...
Also, it appears that Charles Beard was a white guy, so I don't think the "interracial couple" angle suggested earlier is a plausible motive at this point.
  #68  
Old 08-05-2019, 07:35 PM
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Nm, this isn't the gun debate thread.
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Last edited by snfaulkner; 08-05-2019 at 07:39 PM.
  #69  
Old 08-05-2019, 07:44 PM
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This story just got even more disturbing. They're taking down references to the band. Certainly don't want this guy getting any more attention.

https://nypost.com/2019/08/05/dayton...l-band-report/

Quote:
Dayton mass shooter Connor Betts was reportedly the lead singer of a misogynistic “pornogrind” metal band called Menstrual Munchies — which released songs about rape, murder, necrophilia and other gruesome acts against women.

“I feel s–tty having let him be in the band, doing those lyrics,” said bandmate Jesse Creekbaum in an interview with VICE News. “It’s like, Jesus Christ, how much of this was like real life for him?”
<Snip>
“I know, like, whereas I saw it as a joke — like, ‘Let’s play this and we’ll shock some people,’ and then the people that we know laugh — he didn’t see it as a joke,” Creekbaum said. “He was like, ‘F–k, yeah. We’re gonna do this.’”

Last edited by aceplace57; 08-05-2019 at 07:48 PM.
  #70  
Old 08-05-2019, 08:05 PM
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People that are reported to have known the shooter paint him out to be a pretty disturbing individual. A classmate reportedly said that he had plans to shoot up the high school back when he was there. Since the shooter was aged 24 at death, that means that would have been going back at least six years ago. He seems to fit the profile of someone who might do a mass shooting.

The Twitter profile alleged to be that of the shooter showed someone who was an undeniably politicized individual - in his own words, he was a "leftist". He also seemed to be rather nihilistic and extreme in his outlook on life.

There is no direct evidence yet that this mass shooting was political in nature. No manifesto was released beforehand by the shooter. The targets also do not seem political in nature - people in a bar, with six out of nine victims being black (so not a sort of alt-right bar, or obvious "antifa" target). There is also the fact that the shooter's sister was one of the victims, which suggests that the motive might have been personal rather than political.

Whether or not this was intended by the shooter to have been seen as a "political" action, like how the El Paso shooter had in mind with his "manifesto" and choice of target, it seems quite possible that this individual, somewhat extreme to start with, could have been made more extreme by the extreme political climate of our time.

It seems the line between a "general" mass shooter and "political" mass shooter can be blurry, and it is not always easy to extricate how much politics is a factor in each case. I think we need to know more facts about the shooter's motive before certifying that the Dayton shooting was an act of terrorism, like the El Paso shooting was.
  #71  
Old 08-05-2019, 08:08 PM
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Here's the full interview with Jesse Creekbaum. He is the songwriter for the band.
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/...-killing-women

Quote:
Now one of Betts’ bandmates, Jesse Creekbaum, 25, is taking the recordings down. He says he’s removing them out of fear the vulgar music he produced will make a cult hero out of the murderer, who was killed by police at the scene. He’s also received death threats online because of his association with Betts.

Last edited by aceplace57; 08-05-2019 at 08:11 PM.
  #72  
Old 08-05-2019, 08:15 PM
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Another quote. I can relate to the shock of a bandmate committing a crime like this.

Connor Betts sang with them on gigs. He didn't record with them on their albums.

Quote:
“It's just the music we love, you know, like, it's fun to play. It's energetic and there's nothing else like it. So we play it,” Walton, 29, said. “And then we get people like this, who, you know, are fucking sick in the head, who get into our scene and ended up killing nine people and almost, you know, putting a bad name on our scene. And that's not fair for the rest of us.”

Last edited by aceplace57; 08-05-2019 at 08:19 PM.
  #73  
Old 08-05-2019, 10:31 PM
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That simply is not going to happen until there is a major shift in society, moving away frm the stigma attached to mental health issues.
the common connection between this and the Florida school shooting is mental health issues that were not properly addressed.

t's been a recent trend in the education system to bypass the legal system to keep kids out of prison. It's a noble idea that has merit. Kids do stupid things. But kids with serious violent issues can't be fast tracked away from the court or mental health system. It's not fair to anyone concerned.

If it isn't addressed then nothing will change.
  #74  
Old 08-05-2019, 10:32 PM
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the common connection between this and the Florida school shooting is mental health issues that were not properly addressed.

t's been a recent trend in the education system to bypass the legal system to keep kids out of prison. It's a noble idea that has merit. Kids do stupid things. But kids with serious violent issues can't be fast tracked away from the court or mental health system. It's not fair to anyone concerned.

If it isn't addressed then nothing will change.
So are you for or against socialized healthcare?
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  #75  
Old 08-05-2019, 10:49 PM
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His high school "hit list" included a list of girls he wanted to rape.
I read Sue Klebold's book when it came out a couple years ago. I'm going to spoiler the following for reasons that will be obvious if you choose to read it.

SPOILER:
When Eric Harris' computer was analyzed after Columbine, they found a journal where he said that the main thing he was looking forward to at college was the opportunity to pick up drunk girls at bars and parties, take them back to his dorm room, and rape them. I don't know what, if any, sexual experience he and Dylan Klebold had in their lifetimes, but yeah, he did the world a big favor by taking himself out. Just wish he'd done it first.


If the boy in this recent case from my area is ever let out, I suspect we'll be reading about him in a decade or so. His parents will be going on trial later this year, because his father is a convicted felon and should not have owned firearms.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/st...ty/1759326001/
  #76  
Old 08-05-2019, 10:50 PM
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More information about the shooter is being discovered. Probably not a Trump fan.

This guy is such an enigma. Drives to the bar with his best friend and sister. Then guns them down during his rampage.

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/08/05/us/...www.cnn.com%2F

Quote:
A Twitter account that appears to belong to Dayton mass shooter Connor Betts retweeted extreme left-wing and anti-police posts, as well as tweets supporting Antifa, or anti-fascist, protesters.
The most recent tweet on the @iamthespookster account was on August 3, the day of the shooting, when he retweeted a post saying, "Millenials have a message for the Joe Biden generation: hurry up and die." He also retweeted messages supporting Sens. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.

Last edited by aceplace57; 08-05-2019 at 10:55 PM.
  #77  
Old 08-05-2019, 11:05 PM
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Wikipedia (citing Washington Post article):
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Betts' high school time girlfriend stated that at the time they dated Betts complained of hallucinations, hearing voices and psychosis, and was afraid of developing schizophrenia.
  #78  
Old 08-05-2019, 11:44 PM
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So are you for or against socialized healthcare?
Non sequitur.
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  #79  
Old 08-06-2019, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
the common connection between this and the Florida school shooting is mental health issues that were not properly addressed.

t's been a recent trend in the education system to bypass the legal system to keep kids out of prison. It's a noble idea that has merit. Kids do stupid things. But kids with serious violent issues can't be fast tracked away from the court or mental health system. It's not fair to anyone concerned.

If it isn't addressed then nothing will change.
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So are you for or against socialized healthcare?
Let's keep the political issues out of Breaking News threads, please. Feel free to discuss this in Great Debates.
  #80  
Old 08-06-2019, 01:12 PM
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The shooter's sorta-ex-girlfriend wrote a fair bit about him and their (weird) relationship: My Ex-Boyfriend was the Dayton Shooter
  #81  
Old 08-06-2019, 02:50 PM
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It doesn't seem to me that labeling that relationship as "weird" does anything constructive.

They dated for a while, had common ground dealing with mental illness, and she broke up with him when she realized he was too far over the edge.
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  #82  
Old 08-06-2019, 06:13 PM
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It doesn't seem to me that labeling that relationship as "weird" does anything constructive.
It actually might be relevant. The shooter seemed to gravitate toward a nonconformist life style. It may have been tough to be rejected by a girlfriend with a fiance. I believe the rejection was recent which could have been the trigger.
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Old 08-06-2019, 06:31 PM
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... I believe the rejection was recent which could have been the trigger.
Her post says it was "Two-ish months" ago, and the breakup is under the heading of "May 2019", so perhaps near the end of that month?
  #84  
Old 08-06-2019, 07:09 PM
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Her post says it was "Two-ish months" ago, and the breakup is under the heading of "May 2019", so perhaps near the end of that month?
she might have been the only sane outlet for his fascination of mass murders.
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:30 PM
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It actually might be relevant. The shooter seemed to gravitate toward a nonconformist life style. It may have been tough to be rejected by a girlfriend with a fiance. I believe the rejection was recent which could have been the trigger.
You can't be serious.

This guy has had serious mental health issues his whole life. He has assaulted women since he was a teen-ager. He made a "rape list" and a "kill list" in school, resulting in evacuation and suspension. Several people he had known at various stages in his life felt threatened by him.

He often expressed suicidal thoughts. He often expressed fear of becoming schizophrenic. He admitted that he shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm. He stalked an ex-girlfriend and was this close to leaving a threatening note.

He said he knew he needed treatment but refused to go to a professional for fear of being stigmatized by society.

And yet, and yet, you think it's somehow relevant that one girl he dated for a few months had a "non-conformist lifestyle" because you think it's "weird" that she is ethically non-monogamous? That's sick.
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Last edited by Acsenray; 08-06-2019 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:39 PM
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You can't be serious.

This guy has had serious mental health issues his whole life. He has assaulted women since he was a teen-ager. He made a "rape list" and a "kill list" in school, resulting in evacuation and suspension. Several people he had known at various stages in his life felt threatened by him.

He often expressed suicidal thoughts. He often expressed fear of becoming schizophrenic. He admitted that he shouldn't be allowed to own a firearm. He stalked an ex-girlfriend and was this close to leaving a threatening note.

He said he knew he needed treatment but refused to go to a professional for fear of being stigmatized by society.

And yet, and yet, you think it's somehow relevant that one girl he dated for a few months had a "non-conformist lifestyle" because you think it's "weird" that she is ethically non-monogamous? That's sick.
His projected persona was one of shock value. Her non-conformist lifestyle fit right in. She becomes part of his persona.

yes, I think it's relevant that she rejected him. Given his response to a previous rejection It's logical this one triggered antisocial thoughts.
  #87  
Old 08-06-2019, 09:24 PM
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His projected persona was one of shock value.
No; it wasn't. Read what the young lady wrote.
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Throughout the night, he mingled with strangers, charming them with his big smile, baby blues, and intellect. I had more fun than I had in a while being with someone so outgoing and electric.
Quote:
He smiled and said that it was a date, then. We got to my apartment, and he walked me up. We lingered outside my door. I told him that I wanted to kiss him, but I wanted to kiss him sober. He chuckled and said that that was sweet. And we left it at that.
Quote:
He was a perfect gentleman throughout our relationship. He never pushed me to do things I didn’t want to do. His biggest concern was that I was comfortable. Polyamory is confusing for everyone involved, but luckily he and my fiance at the time were both understanding and consenting.
You seems to be ignoring these words and the words of others who knew him casually (where all they would know was the 'projected persona'). If anything, his projected persona was of a calm, rational, reasonably well-adjusted young man.

He was a guy with huge problems, obviously, but 'projecting a persona of shock value' isn't supported at all by what we know of him right now.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 08-06-2019 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 08-06-2019, 09:40 PM
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No; it wasn't. .
Their first date involved him showing her a disturbing video. His band was a shock porn band. he tried to have her deliver a threatening letter to a former girlfriend. He was suspended for writing a hit list on a bathroom wall. etc......

Her discussions with him showed a dark side. At some point she had to cut him loose so I don't understand your point. Many psychopaths can pass themselves off as sociable when it serves their needs.
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Old 08-06-2019, 10:16 PM
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Local news showed images of him in a bar across the street prior to the shooting. He was just looking around. He would have left that bar to get the gun and mask. Also said he was at the recent Klan rally with a long gun and mask protesting it. I would expect that was well photographed so images should be available at some point.
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Old 08-06-2019, 10:25 PM
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Their first date involved him showing her a disturbing video. His band was a shock porn band. he tried to have her deliver a threatening letter to a former girlfriend. He was suspended for writing a hit list on a bathroom wall. etc......

Her discussions with him showed a dark side. At some point she had to cut him loose so I don't understand your point. Many psychopaths can pass themselves off as sociable when it serves their needs.
FFS make up your mind: was he projecting a shock persona or was he projecting a normal persona? You can't even keep your own argument straight.

ETA: Also, you have a lot of facts wrong.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 08-06-2019 at 10:26 PM.
  #91  
Old 08-06-2019, 10:37 PM
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FFS make up your mind: was he projecting a shock persona or was he projecting a normal persona? You can't even keep your own argument straight.

ETA: Also, you have a lot of facts wrong.
What don't you understand? Right out of the gate he showed his previous girlfriend a disturbing video. She talked about all the dark stuff he shared with her. He was suspended at school for writing a hit list on the bathroom wall. The band he played in, IN PUBLIC, was a porno band full of disturbing lyrics. That he was capable of blending in does not make it his normal persona.

I live in this city and frequent the bar district he shot up. By all means, tell me what I got wrong. It's a pretty heavy news item here.
  #92  
Old 08-07-2019, 05:49 PM
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The shirt he was wearing referenced a song from The Acacia Strain called Ramirez. Don't expect Pat Boone. Probably better lyrics than his own band but I haven't looked it up yet.

The news is reporting that the bar employees were trained by the police on what to do in such a situation. There's a picture of the bouncer going outside and grabbing the gun from the shooter who was down at this point. He put himself in the line of fire of the police.

His girlfriend said she never heard his band but he described it to her as something for shock value.

Last edited by Magiver; 08-07-2019 at 05:49 PM.
  #93  
Old 08-12-2019, 01:49 PM
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The shooter's friend is being charged for lying on a federal form when purchasing a firearm. Apparently he was a druggie and helped the shooter acquire some of the equipment he used in the shooting (and hide it from his parents).
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Old 08-12-2019, 03:36 PM
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^bad link
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Old 08-12-2019, 03:53 PM
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You're right, not sure how I screwed that up so badly. Here's the right link: https://www.10tv.com/article/feds-da...ssory-2019-aug
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Old 08-13-2019, 08:39 AM
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^good link
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:05 AM
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USA Today has some additional information about the timeline, route, and victims. It sure sounds to me like he started out by targeting his sister:

Quote:
Biehl said evidence gathered from cellphone communications between Betts, his sister and the friend who accompanied them to the Oregon District indicated Betts knew where they were six minutes before he began shooting.

Their location, a taco stand near the bar Blind Bob's, was the first to be fired upon early Sunday morning, officials said.
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
USA Today has some additional information about the timeline, route, and victims. It sure sounds to me like he started out by targeting his sister:
Yes, I don't think it's a coincidence that he started firing within 5 minutes of them leaving Blind Bob's. Particularly when you take into account they were texting back and forth.

I find it puzzling that we haven't heard from the mutual friend. It makes me think there is a large side story that will come out later.
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Old 08-16-2019, 01:27 AM
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AP with some interesting updates:

It's not exactly surprising that some bystanders were hit in that volley of fire by the police:
Quote:
Dr. Kent Harshbarger said during a Thursday news conference that two people shot Aug. 4 by Betts were also shot by police but that none of the shots were lethal.

Harshbarger said Betts was shot by police about 24 times with wounds mostly to Betts’ upper torso and lower extremities.
FWIW, I think they made the right call. To refrain from firing because there were some bystanders in the backdrop would have allowed the shooter's spree to continue.

Quote:
The coroner said cocaine, antidepressants and alcohol were found in Betts’ system at the time of the shooting.
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Old 08-16-2019, 01:49 AM
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According to the coroner 1 of the people hit by police involved a fatal shot but was also hit by a fatal shot by the shooter. Either bullet would have caused excessive blood loss.
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