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Old 08-10-2019, 08:21 AM
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Epstein Suicide


This just in

NY Times
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Old 08-10-2019, 08:27 AM
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So he hung himself. That is probably to the relief of dozens of very rich and powerful men.
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Old 08-10-2019, 08:32 AM
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So he hung himself. That is probably to the relief of dozens of very rich and powerful men.
Which makes you wonder if he had some help.
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Old 08-10-2019, 08:37 AM
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Which makes you wonder if he had some help.
If he needed help, he probably got it.
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Old 08-10-2019, 08:41 AM
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Which makes you wonder if he had some help.
Trump had him silenced.


SPOILER:
Hey, if people believe Clinton had Seth Rich killed to shut him up, why not introduce a new CT?
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Old 08-10-2019, 09:12 AM
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Trump had him silenced.


SPOILER:
Hey, if people believe Clinton had Seth Rich killed to shut him up, why not introduce a new CT?


Nice spin-job, doctor.
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Old 08-10-2019, 08:28 AM
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I'm surprised there are pedophiles who do not choose suicide when caught.
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Old 08-10-2019, 08:42 AM
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So he dies and is now officially innocent of all charges, right? I mean, as far as the law is concerned.

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Old 08-10-2019, 08:46 AM
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So he dies and is now officially innocent of all charges, right? I mean, as far as the law is concerned.

Is that how the law works? Shouldn't the investigation continue into his customers?
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Old 08-10-2019, 09:01 AM
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Hey, wasn't he supposed to be on suicide watch? Don't they take away stuff like belts and shoelaces that can be used to self-harm in those cases?

One does wonder if he had "help"....
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Old 08-10-2019, 09:03 AM
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Hey, wasn't he supposed to be on suicide watch? Don't they take away stuff like belts and shoelaces that can be used to self-harm in those cases?

One does wonder if he had "help"....
At least one Trump staffer has already blamed Hillary.
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Old 08-10-2019, 09:04 AM
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My immediate knee jerk reaction to hearing he killed himself was "no chance he killed himself. That's just what it looks like"

I may have watched too many movies.


But he did have dirt on people who absolutely could have had this done.
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Old 08-10-2019, 09:04 AM
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Hey, wasn't he supposed to be on suicide watch?
I assume someone watched him do it.
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Old 08-10-2019, 09:34 AM
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I assume someone watched him do it.
Right. They didn't say that they had him on suicide stop.
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:28 AM
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I assume someone watched him do it.
I shared this comment with my son and he used it in a youtube comment. He's quite excited about the number of likes and LOLs he's getting in response. I told him to send you a screenshot of half the likes as compensation; it seems only fair.
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Old 08-10-2019, 11:02 PM
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So he dies and is now officially innocent of all charges, right? I mean, as far as the law is concerned.

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Is that how the law works? Shouldn't the investigation continue into his customers?

I have not read each and every post and IANAL but I was talking to someone who is tonight; if the police and state go after this seriously it is possible - just possible - that it could help. For one thing it takes the big target away and should allow some more freedom/opportunity to pick off the other targets. Secondly he won't be able to misdirect or confuse the investigation. The really good/bad thing is that there are several victims public already who have made it clear that they are not considering this closed at all.

(It's bad that there are any victims; period. But that we have people with the strength ------ it's simply amazing.)
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Old 08-10-2019, 09:21 AM
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Prince Philip's assassins strike again.
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Old 08-10-2019, 09:43 AM
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America's most high profile prisoner - a guy who may very well have had serious dirt on any number of rich and powerful figures - offs himself while on suicide watch a week after a failed attempt?

Nah. Nuh-uh. I'm not a conspiracy minded guy, but I'm going to need to see some serious evidence that the motherfucker wasn't "helped".
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:27 PM
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I'm not a conspiracy minded guy, but I'm going to need to see some serious evidence that the motherfucker wasn't "helped".
How do you prove that something didn't happen? You could have 24hrs footage of him alone in his cell and then killing himself but maybe maybe he was given the instructions on how to make a rope out of cell materials and told his family would be tortured if he didn't do it!

I was reading some older articles and it sounds as though (a) "Suicide watch" is a broad spectrum between someone checking on you every half hour to being strapped to a plastic mattress naked with someone actively staring at you 24hrs a day and (b) suicides while on suicide watch aren't all that rare to assume that someone had to have assistance. I'd need to hear a lot more details about the watch itself and how he died before giving myself over to assuming that Clinton/Trump baked him a cake with a rope in it.

Last edited by Jophiel; 08-10-2019 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 08-10-2019, 04:21 PM
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How do you prove that something didn't happen? You could have 24hrs footage of him alone in his cell and then killing himself but maybe maybe he was given the instructions on how to make a rope out of cell materials and told his family would be tortured if he didn't do it!

I was reading some older articles and it sounds as though (a) "Suicide watch" is a broad spectrum between someone checking on you every half hour to being strapped to a plastic mattress naked with someone actively staring at you 24hrs a day and (b) suicides while on suicide watch aren't all that rare to assume that someone had to have assistance. I'd need to hear a lot more details about the watch itself and how he died before giving myself over to assuming that Clinton/Trump baked him a cake with a rope in it.
Not to mention would Clinton *really* benefit from his demise? Bluntly put, while Bill seems to have benefitted from knowing him [catching rides on his plane, parties, not sure what else] Bill is firmly out of politics and unless he somehow was involved at the 'also get sent to the slammer as an accomplice' there really is nothing more that will happen to him, and Hilary is probably also done with politics unless a future government wants her to become something like an ambassador or judge or whatever.

Seems like Trump is the one benefitting from his death.
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Old 08-10-2019, 04:32 PM
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Whitey Bulger did it. He faked his own murder in prison so he could go undercover and nail Epstein. Who's going to look for a dead man? The perfect crime.

But was he working for the FBI or was he double crossing them (again)?

BTW: There's been mention that if couldn't be murder as it was too risky, the "authorities" would find out too easily, yadda yadda. Um, the prison brass, regardless of what actually happened, are going to be extremely keen on calling it a suicide and walking away from it.
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Old 08-11-2019, 12:26 AM
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I won't be at all surprised if it turned out that Bill Clinton was involved in the sex crimes. We already know from the documents that were unsealed Friday that one of the sex slaves has said she was forced to have sex with former Democrat Gov Bill Richardson and former Democrat Sen George Mitchell. That same woman DID NOT implicate Trump : https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-bi...tein-documents

When you consider that Trump traveled in the same circles with these people before he became president and now, as President, has access to surveillance and intelligence info that other people don't, he probably knows more about what happened than what has been publicly released. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he has a reason for making these allegations against the Clinton.
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Old 08-11-2019, 01:00 AM
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I wouldn't be at all surprised if he has a reason for making these allegations against the Clinton.
He has a great reason. He's a pathological liar.
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Old 08-11-2019, 11:31 AM
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I won't be at all surprised if it turned out that Bill Clinton was involved in the sex crimes. We already know from the documents that were unsealed Friday that one of the sex slaves has said she was forced to have sex with former Democrat Gov Bill Richardson and former Democrat Sen George Mitchell. That same woman DID NOT implicate Trump : https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-bi...tein-documents

When you consider that Trump traveled in the same circles with these people before he became president and now, as President, has access to surveillance and intelligence info that other people don't, he probably knows more about what happened than what has been publicly released. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he has a reason for making these allegations against the Clinton.
So this woman didn't accuse Clinton or Trump. And from this, you conclude Clinton must be guilty and Trump must be innocent.
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Old 08-11-2019, 01:57 PM
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I won't be at all surprised if it turned out that Bill Clinton was involved in the sex crimes. We already know from the documents that were unsealed Friday that one of the sex slaves has said she was forced to have sex with former Democrat Gov Bill Richardson and former Democrat Sen George Mitchell. That same woman DID NOT implicate Trump : https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-bi...tein-documents

When you consider that Trump traveled in the same circles with these people before he became president and now, as President, has access to surveillance and intelligence info that other people don't, he probably knows more about what happened than what has been publicly released. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he has a reason for making these allegations against the Clinton.
Both Clinton and Trump have associated with Epstein, they've both ridden on his plane, they've both attended his parties. Only one of them has boasted about visiting the Miss Teen USA beauty pageant dressing room; which one was that?
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Old 08-10-2019, 09:57 PM
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America's most high profile prisoner - a guy who may very well have had serious dirt on any number of rich and powerful figures - offs himself while on suicide watch a week after a failed attempt?

Nah. Nuh-uh. I'm not a conspiracy minded guy, but I'm going to need to see some serious evidence that the motherfucker wasn't "helped".
I would probably rephrase that more delicately but, I agree whole-heartedly with your assessment.
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:04 AM
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I'm seeing a FB meme posted by a (former?) Doper that says Clinton had him killed. A far-left friend says Clinton did it. To what end? How does that make sense? Trump is the one who benefits from Epstein's death.
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:12 AM
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Epstein may have had ties to intelligence agencies too (maybe they were using his blackmail abilities for their own purposes).

If so I'm sure they'd know how to get a prison guard to 'let' epstein kill himself using carrots and sticks.

I won't be surprised if the cctv camera stopped working too.
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:20 AM
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If so I'm sure they'd know how to get a prison guard to 'let' epstein kill himself using carrots and sticks.
Except I think he used a sheet or something.
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Old 08-11-2019, 09:55 PM
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Except I think he used a sheet or something.
You've never played minecraft
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:37 AM
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The one thing that prevents me from wholeheartedly believing this was a murder:

I'm no criminologist, but does it make sense for a murderer to try the same method twice (make-it-look-like-a-suicide) after the first method failed? Wouldn't a would-be murderer realize that the authorities would be alerted to that kind of method (as, indeed, Epstein was said to be on suicide watch), and try a different one--poison, perhaps?

Besides, if the first time were a murder attempt, wouldn't Epstein have said something about it before this?

My guess is it was a legitimate suicide, but given that pedophiles are the lowest order of scum in prisons (not just among the guards, but among the prisoners--even evil has standards), the guards just "happened" to be taking a very long break in the hope that Epstein would do the world a favor.
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:40 AM
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in the hope that Epstein would do the world a favor.
I don't know about the rest of the world, but this is not a favor to me. Everybody dies at some time or another. Death isn't justice. Facing your accusers and seeing the evidence against you exposed to the public—I would want that before his death.
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:45 AM
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I don't know about the rest of the world, but this is not a favor to me. Everybody dies at some time or another. Death isn't justice. Facing your accusers and seeing the evidence against you exposed to the public—I would want that before his death.
Good point.
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Old 08-10-2019, 11:02 AM
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I don't know about the rest of the world, but this is not a favor to me. Everybody dies at some time or another. Death isn't justice. Facing your accusers and seeing the evidence against you exposed to the public—I would want that before his death.
Me too.
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Old 08-10-2019, 01:29 PM
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My guess is it was a legitimate suicide, but given that pedophiles are the lowest order of scum in prisons (not just among the guards, but among the prisoners--even evil has standards), the guards just "happened" to be taking a very long break in the hope that Epstein would do the world a favor.
My thought is that if there was any sort of outside help, it consisted of bribing guards to be conveniently inattentive if he should attempt suicide again.
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Old 08-10-2019, 01:57 PM
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My thought is that if there was any sort of outside help, it consisted of bribing guards to be conveniently inattentive if he should attempt suicide again.
Yeah, follow the money.

Some of the workers on his estate seem to have come forward, so they might be able to pursue this further. But it's damn convenient for the rich sickos.
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Old 08-10-2019, 09:47 PM
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The one thing that prevents me from wholeheartedly believing this was a murder:

I'm no criminologist, but does it make sense for a murderer to try the same method twice (make-it-look-like-a-suicide) after the first method failed?
Happens a lot in domestic violence cases. Murderers don't tend to be particularly original, movies notwithstanding.
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Old 08-10-2019, 04:29 PM
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I'm seeing a FB meme posted by a (former?) Doper that says Clinton had him killed. A far-left friend says Clinton did it. To what end? How does that make sense? Trump is the one who benefits from Epstein's death.
Anytime anyone who has ever been mentioned in the same sentence with the Clintons dies suddenly, some right wing whack-a-doodles will immediately spread the theory that the Clintons had him/her killed. No matter how tenuous the tie, no matter if no tie exists, the Clintons are responsible for every mysterious death. That's just how that crowd rolls.

The world is a better place for the loss of Epstein. I'm surprised he didn't flee months ago to some nation with no extradition treaty with the US.

Last edited by BobLibDem; 08-10-2019 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:29 AM
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I can't wait to hear the explanation for how a suspect of such a high profile case, on suicide watch, manages to kill himself without anybody preventing it from happening.
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:32 AM
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How convenient for certain people.
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Old 08-10-2019, 10:33 AM
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This ain't the Pit, but rot in hell, you bastard.
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Old 08-10-2019, 11:19 AM
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I can't say how similar my thought processes are to your typical jail guard's but I would want him to go through the humiliation of a trial, get convicted, then sent to prison where he has to spend years in isolation for fear of being offed as a short eye.
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Old 08-10-2019, 11:31 AM
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On r/jokes (reddit):

If you are surprised at the Jeffrey Epstein suicide this morning...

Imagine how he must have felt.
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Old 08-10-2019, 02:05 PM
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On r/jokes (reddit):

If you are surprised at the Jeffrey Epstein suicide this morning...

Imagine how he must have felt.
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Old 08-10-2019, 11:26 AM
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I dunno, I was a little worried the double jeopardy defense might have legs, and I'm happy he's no longer with us.
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Old 08-10-2019, 11:26 AM
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And with his death, we've also lost any information he might have shared about other pedophile monsters, and so there are probably some of them who will walk free as a result.
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Old 08-10-2019, 02:16 PM
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And with his death, we've also lost any information he might have shared about other pedophile monsters, and so there are probably some of them who will walk free as a result.
Actually this is not entirely correct.

Epstein's death does in fact end the criminal complaint against him. However, it doesn't end the civil case against his estate. Cold comfort, but there are fat pickings to be had for his victims.

Even more interesting, Epstein's death effectively ends any possible 4th amendment challenge to search warrants executed against him. Nobody else has any standing to challenge.

True, Epstein can no longer be a star witness against anybody, but at least the state can paw through his $80 million house for dirt on whoever they want, and then sell it for victim compensation. That's something.
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Old 08-10-2019, 11:43 AM
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I’m not one who typically engages in conspiracy thinking but this is fishy.
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Old 08-10-2019, 11:53 AM
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Barring any existing will to the contrary, his brother, who is the sole living immediate relative, will likely inherit the estate and have to deal with all the lawsuits that are certain to follow Epstein's death.
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Old 08-10-2019, 05:26 PM
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Barring any existing will to the contrary, his brother, who is the sole living immediate relative, will likely inherit the estate and have to deal with all the lawsuits that are certain to follow Epstein's death.
The brother could always decline the estate and leave it to defend itself. If the possible claims and awards are at all close to the amount of the estate, that might be a logical choice.
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