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  #201  
Old 07-30-2019, 08:54 AM
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The new American example to the world of dignity and gravitas: A so-called president that is more motivated by partisan morning talk shows than his actual intelligence briefings.
  #202  
Old 07-30-2019, 08:57 AM
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Worse than that, a Leader of the Free World who is actually annoyed by intelligence briefings and would rather just be told how wonderful he is.
  #203  
Old 07-30-2019, 09:08 AM
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Even worse than that, a Leader of the Free World who is actually annoyed by intelligence briefings and is just told how wonderful he is.

Last edited by Monty; 07-30-2019 at 09:10 AM.
  #204  
Old 07-30-2019, 09:34 AM
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Who finds partisan morning talk shows a prime source of motivation.
  #205  
Old 07-30-2019, 09:38 AM
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Kim Jong Eun and people who think like him.
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Old 07-30-2019, 09:44 AM
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(Oh, I didn't mean that as a question, but as a continuation of the 2 posts before it. I should have used the elipticals ...)
  #207  
Old 07-30-2019, 02:18 PM
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I should have used the elipticals ...
You lookin' to get in shape?
  #208  
Old 07-30-2019, 02:26 PM
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You lookin' to get in shape?
Obviously isn't working for Trump.....

......
  #209  
Old 08-10-2019, 11:05 PM
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For the record, current visa processing times, according to USCIS are as such:


6 Months to 8 Months - Permanent resident filing for a spouse or child under 21
9 Months to 11.5 Months - U.S. citizen filing for a spouse, parent, or child under 21
77 Months to 100 Months - U.S. citizen filing for an unmarried son or daughter over 21
75.5 Months to 98.5 Months - Permanent resident filing for an unmarried son or daughter over 21
81 Months to 105.5 Months - U.S. citizen filing for a married son or daughter over 21

https://egov.uscis.gov/processing-times/

It is fair to say that there is a quantitative difference between 10ish months and 80ish months.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 08-10-2019 at 11:06 PM.
  #210  
Old 08-12-2019, 08:11 AM
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For the record...

Gettysburg Address - 1863
First moon landing - 1969

It is fair to say that there is a quantitative difference between 1969 and 1863.
  #211  
Old 08-12-2019, 12:52 PM
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She lived with both men. There was communication between the other husband and her when she said there wasn't. She improperly filed her tax returns. She improperly used campaign funds to correct them.

That's the evidence that we know. The rest can't be found out because people refuse to talk and evidence was deleted. So if you want to believe that's all innocent, you're free to do so. Not sure many will take you seriously outside the bubble of this board though.
I lived with my sister for years (as a kid). I talk to my sister all the time, on the phone. Doesn't mean i married her, you dumb ass troll.

I didn't keep records. Guess that means we're secretly married.

Dumb ass.
  #212  
Old 08-12-2019, 01:26 PM
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For the record, current visa processing times, according to USCIS are as such:
For the record, the "record" doesn't need any facts other than whether or not the dude she was married to was her brother.

Every other fact you dredge up is irrelevant. She says the guy wasn't her brother, and you don't actually have any information that he is, do you?
  #213  
Old 08-12-2019, 05:29 PM
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For the record, the "record" doesn't need any facts other than whether or not the dude she was married to was her brother.

Every other fact you dredge up is irrelevant. She says the guy wasn't her brother, and you don't actually have any information that he is, do you?

Of course not. He's Just Asking Questions in his very own (I guess) poisoning the well special way. Of course he believes that nonsense. That's why he reacts so badly when it's pointed out to him it's bullshit.
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Old 08-12-2019, 06:34 PM
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Of course not. He's Just Asking Questions in his very own (I guess) poisoning the well special way. Of course he believes that nonsense. That's why he reacts so badly when it's pointed out to him it's bullshit.
I'm throwing out hypotheticals that are within the boundaries of the known facts across the entire spectrum from exoneration to guilt, answering questions as they are asked, and correcting anyone who feels the need to declare my intentions as something other than they are.

Personally, I'm ambivalent about whether you choose to hold a particular view on Omar. But if you want to argue her innocence then argue it. Prove or disprove something. Denialism is not evidence. And if you have no interest in that, then stop harping on it and be happy knowing in your heart of hearts that I'm an evil man who makes up lies and impugns the innocent for malicious and unfounded reasons. It's your freedom to believe what you want in your heart. But it's also rude to go telling people what you think of them, Senor I'm-too-partisan-to-logic.

If you're not interested in taking apart the evidence and I don't care about the topic until more better evidence turns up one way or the other, all that leaves us is the ability to call one another poopy-head and shit-cock. Presumably, you have better things to do in your life.

Go. Be happy. Be free. Enjoy your correctness. But, leave me out of it or spend some time trying to prove that the social media posts are faked.
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Old 08-12-2019, 08:15 PM
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Case in point.
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Old 08-12-2019, 09:10 PM
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Case in point.
Yeah. I don't see any evidence of their stupid claims. Instead, they expect us to prove their stupid claims are untrue.

It doesn't work that way.
  #217  
Old 08-12-2019, 10:07 PM
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Yeah. I don't see any evidence of their stupid claims. Instead, they expect us to prove their stupid claims are untrue.

It doesn't work that way.
How's the quote go? Something about extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence?
  #218  
Old 08-12-2019, 10:20 PM
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How's the quote go? Something about extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence?
I don't know that I would classify immigration fraud as an extraordinary event. It's not invisible pink unicorns.

But certainly the evidence for anything untoward by Omar (except a tax documentation oddity) is not there at the moment.
  #219  
Old 08-12-2019, 11:39 PM
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Omar married her brother would classify as an extradordinary event. That claim is the one that requires extraordinary evidence.
  #220  
Old 08-12-2019, 11:40 PM
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I'm throwing out hypotheticals
I once saw a gorilla at the zoo do that.

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Denialism is not evidence.
Neither are accusations and insinuations.

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But certainly the evidence for anything untoward by Omar (except a tax documentation oddity) is not there at the moment.
And that's really all that needed to be said.
But the way you've been carrying on, I get the impression you've been laying the groundwork to pull either an "I told you so" or an "I never said," depending on how things pan out.
  #221  
Old 08-13-2019, 12:03 AM
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But the way you've been carrying on, I get the impression you've been laying the groundwork to pull either an "I told you so" or an "I never said," depending on how things pan out.
I told my grandma that she shouldn't back Kavanaugh because the level and evidence of accusations for sexual assault tend to ramp up, just after Ford came forward.

No one else came forward.

My aim at the time was to urge caution, rather than for her to dive in to back the guy just because he was on her side.

Having failed to predict the future doesn't mean that my warning wasn't correct. I stand by my judgment that jumping in blind was foolhardy.

My advice has been to do the work. You should download the social media images and examine their metadata to see if there is any evidence that they are faked; you should request the school records of Elmi's University to check for people of a different name and birthdate; and you should email City Pages to ask whether Omar requested a change to the names of her family. Hell, just even check whether Elmo was under or above the age of 21 at the time. There is a wide open gap in the hypothetical just sitting there open. This is not hard.

If you're not exercising caution, you're not doing the work, and you're not paying attention to what is actually being said, then you are failing the mission of this website.

If you do that work, you will not prove me wrong nor right because my argument was and is: Stop being a partisan wuss. If you're scared that you'll prove things the wrong way from what you wanted then don't poke your head in. If you're not worried then stop bitching and do the work.

I win if you put in the effort.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 08-13-2019 at 12:08 AM.
  #222  
Old 08-13-2019, 12:50 AM
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My advice has been to do the work.
It's for accusers to "do the work" of actually proving that their accusations are true. People who don't immediately believe poorly supported accusations are under no obligation to do any work to disprove them. Nor are they required to disprove the accusations in order to justify their skepticism about them.

A poorly supported accusation doesn't become more credible just because nobody's bothered to investigate it. If further investigation turns up better support for it, then it becoms more credible. But so far nobody's managed to turn up any better support for the Omar brother-marriage rumors than multiple layers of gossip and speculation.

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I win if you put in the effort.
Nothing you're doing in this discussion can plausibly be called "winning".
  #223  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:30 AM
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I told my grandma that she shouldn't back Kavanaugh because the level and evidence of accusations for sexual assault tend to ramp up, just after Ford came forward.

No one else came forward.

My aim at the time was to urge caution, rather than for her to dive in to back the guy just because he was on her side.

Having failed to predict the future doesn't mean that my warning wasn't correct. I stand by my judgment that jumping in blind was foolhardy.

My advice has been to do the work. You should download the social media images and examine their metadata to see if there is any evidence that they are faked; you should request the school records of Elmi's University to check for people of a different name and birthdate; and you should email City Pages to ask whether Omar requested a change to the names of her family. Hell, just even check whether Elmo was under or above the age of 21 at the time. There is a wide open gap in the hypothetical just sitting there open. This is not hard.

If you're not exercising caution, you're not doing the work, and you're not paying attention to what is actually being said, then you are failing the mission of this website.

If you do that work, you will not prove me wrong nor right because my argument was and is: Stop being a partisan wuss. If you're scared that you'll prove things the wrong way from what you wanted then don't poke your head in. If you're not worried then stop bitching and do the work.

I win if you put in the effort.
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Why are you so ready to believe something with such incredibly weak evidence, and no motive?
I don't believe it, as said in post 79.
Suuure you don't.
  #224  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:52 AM
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She is, fairly undoubtedly, racist against Jews
Apparently I failed to post my mockery of the phrase 'fairly undoubtedly' earlier. I thought I had. That phrase is still an excuse to use an unjustified absolute term ('undoubtedly') by adding a softening adverb ('fairly') which destroys the semantic meaning of the absolute term.

Also, she isn't.

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I told my grandma that she shouldn't back Kavanaugh because the level and evidence of accusations for sexual assault tend to ramp up, just after Ford came forward.

No one else came forward.
Three different women came forward with different but still unsavory stories about Mr Kavanaugh. Maybe not attempted rapes, but not nothing.

(Considering that Blasey Ford was under constant threat for her testimony, it's very possible that there were more women actually raped by Kavanaugh who were sucessfully intimidated or simply killed by the [sigh] Epstein-Barr mob.)
  #225  
Old 08-13-2019, 05:48 AM
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But certainly the evidence for anything untoward by Omar (except a tax documentation oddity) is not there at the moment.
Until there is evidence, Omar is just like anyone else living here, and shouldn't be subjected to claims that she did anything untoward.

Yes, now that she is a public figure, she is going to be subjected to greater scrutiny than others, but if that scrutiny doesn't uncover evidence of wrongdoing, we shouldn't be making up stories and demanding that others disprove them.
  #226  
Old 08-13-2019, 06:08 AM
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I don't know that I would classify immigration fraud as an extraordinary event. It's not invisible pink unicorns.



But certainly the evidence for anything untoward by Omar (except a tax documentation oddity) is not there at the moment.
Immigration fraud?
Becoming an American citizen is one of the greatest things in the world and I admire any young person who desires it enough to cheat a little to get it.
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  #227  
Old 08-13-2019, 06:10 AM
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Until there is evidence, Omar is just like anyone else living here, and shouldn't be subjected to claims that she did anything untoward.

Yes, now that she is a public figure, she is going to be subjected to greater scrutiny than others, but if that scrutiny doesn't uncover evidence of wrongdoing, we shouldn't be making up stories and demanding that others disprove them.

Well, you know, you're right unless the target happens to be Black, Female, Muslim, and an immigrant. Then the hell with acting decent.

At least that's what certain people (Trump, for one, his supporters, and at least two posters on this board) are doing in regards to her.
  #228  
Old 08-13-2019, 06:45 AM
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In my opinion, this needs to be investigated and if true, she needs to be prosecuted.
Any time a right wing "Trumpeteer" says some liberal should be prosecuted, I can only reply, "You're guy first." We'll start with treason and work our way down the line from there.
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  #229  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:36 AM
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All the way down to "misuse of apostrophes".

Regards,
Shodan
  #230  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:37 AM
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Any time a right wing "Trumpeteer" says some liberal should be prosecuted, I can only reply, "You're guy first."
Hopefully without the typo.

Meanwhile, the post count for the deeply-concerned citizen that started this thread still remains resolutely at 1.
  #231  
Old 08-13-2019, 08:54 AM
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All the way down to "misuse of apostrophes".

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What's the maximum sentence for that?

What about for things like cofvefe or infantroopen?
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  #232  
Old 08-13-2019, 09:22 AM
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I told my grandma that she shouldn't back Kavanaugh because the level and evidence of accusations for sexual assault tend to ramp up, just after Ford came forward.

No one else came forward.

My aim at the time was to urge caution, rather than for her to dive in to back the guy just because he was on her side.
Given the credibility of the accusation against Kavagnah, this was wise counsel to give your grandmother if she was about to jump to his defense based on an unthinking desire to defend someone she perceived as being “on her side”.

Especially in light of the fact that there were indeed other accusers and other evidence that emurged. Although clearly not enough to satisfy those who chose to give him one of the most influential positions in the country.

You seem to be suggesting that your intent is to similarly caution folks here against jumping too soon to the defense of someone “on their side” without considering the evidence.

I think a summary of thread context is in order.

1) The OP has made the following claim, WITHOUT providing credible evidence.
Annoyed: “it really does seem like Omar married her brother to get him American citizenship, among other things.”

2) The OP has failed to back up this accusation, or even respond to challenges, and has instead let YOU do the work of digging up other evidence to bolster this claim.

3) Most folks chiming in have said something to the effect of one or more of the following:
There sources of this accusation are spurious.
There is no substantial evidence at this point.
The onus for providing evidence regarding such an accusation should be on the accuser.

4) While strangely obsessing over social media posts, traffic tickets and other “evidence” that you consider pertinent within “the spectrum of possibilities”, You have, at last, stated that there is currently no evidence for Omar having done what the OP accuses her of.



Now, three questions:
1) You really seem hung up on those social media posts. What, if anything, do you think they prove?

2) You’ve told myself and others what we should be doing. What is your message to the OP?

3) If you agree that there is currently no substantial evidence against Omar, why the great dance about traffic tickets, social media posts, and “some folks are saying” journalism? Do you just enjoy playing devil’s advocate, or do you actually have contempt for this congresswoman?


OK, technically four questions.
  #233  
Old 08-13-2019, 01:51 PM
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Given the credibility of the accusation against Kavagnah, this was wise counsel to give your grandmother if she was about to jump to his defense based on an unthinking desire to defend someone she perceived as being “on her side”.

Especially in light of the fact that there were indeed other accusers and other evidence that emurged. Although clearly not enough to satisfy those who chose to give him one of the most influential positions in the country.
Which of the other accusers do you mean - Judy Munro-Leighton, Julie Swetnick, Debbie Ramirez, or Jeffrey Catalan?

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  #234  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:01 PM
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Sandwiched between the bullshit accusations you included these. Let's see... bullshit politics, a dishonest headline, and total irrelevance. But thank you for (once again) casting aspersions on women for doing nothing more than telling their stories, with literally not a shred of evidence that they are lying.
  #235  
Old 08-13-2019, 02:24 PM
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Which of the other accusers do you mean - Judy Munro-Leighton, Julie Swetnick, Debbie Ramirez, or Jeffrey Catalan?
Let us compare and contrast if you will. Each of these accusers claimed to have personally witnessed something done by a Kavanaugh.

Not a single accuser of Ilhan Omar has even claimed to know Ahmed Nur Said Elmi, nor Ilhan Omar personally, nor do any of them have personal direct knowledge of any wrongdoings by either of them, nor do they actually know who either of them are actually related to.

The Kavanaugh accusers *may* have been incorrect or lying or otherwise unreliable, but the form of their accusation was inherently... normal. They said they saw that guy do that thing, or that guy did that thing to me.

Omar's accusers are inherently... nonsense. They are cherrypicking documents about people they don't know, latching onto the tiniest inconsistency, and launching bizarre unfounded accusations as a result. And then expect the rest of the world prove them wrong.

And by the way, we've seen how idiots like this react to being proven wrong. They don't accept it. It doesn't matter what you provide, or who you get to certify it, they will just accuse you of lying about it and repeat their idiotic claims. (See Obama Birf Certificate)
  #236  
Old 08-13-2019, 03:01 PM
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Any time a right wing "Trumpeteer" says some liberal should be prosecuted, I can only reply, "You're guy first." We'll start with treason and work our way down the line from there.
Works for me.
  #237  
Old 08-13-2019, 03:23 PM
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Sandwiched between the bullshit accusations you included these. Let's see... bullshit politics, a dishonest headline, and total irrelevance. But thank you for (once again) casting aspersions on women for doing nothing more than telling their stories, with literally not a shred of evidence that they are lying.
Didn't read the cites, did you? Unless recanting doesn't count as evidence.

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  #238  
Old 08-13-2019, 04:00 PM
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Didn't read the cites, did you? Unless recanting doesn't count as evidence.



Regards,

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I did read the cites, and they don't support any accusation of dishonesty.
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Old 08-13-2019, 04:46 PM
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Dr. Ford's testimony and Deborah Ramirez's testimony are two pieces of direct evidence that corroborate each other.

There is zero direct evidence that Omar married her brother.
  #240  
Old 08-13-2019, 05:51 PM
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Which of the other accusers do you mean
I didn't.
By "the accusation," I was referring to Ford's accusation. Which was very credible.
  #241  
Old 08-13-2019, 06:13 PM
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I believe Kavanaugh lied his way onto the Court.

I also believe there’s something very hinky about Omar’s marriage history, and the Minneapolis Star-Tribune (no right wing rag) has said as much, in journalistic terms. (I have already used up my monthly allotment of free articles on Minnesota Vikings stories, but do a search and you’ll see what I mean.)
  #242  
Old 08-13-2019, 08:43 PM
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I also believe there’s something very hinky about Omar’s marriage history
"Something hinky" could be true, depending on your definition of "hinky", without necessarily equating to "married her own brother".

We know that Omar apparently had a religious marriage with no civil legal validation in 2002 to Ahmed Hirsi, a subsequent separation from Hirsi and a civil marriage with Elmi, and within the last two years a formal petition of divorce from Elmi and reconciliation and civil marriage with Hirsi, who is said to be the father of all three of her children, including the youngest born after their initial separation. Plenty of room there for possible "hinkiness" of some kind, although by Trumpian or even Spitzerian standards of scandalousness it looks pretty damn boring, and I have seen zero actual evidence so far that there's anything there that's anybody's business but hers and her family's.

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[...] the Minneapolis Star-Tribune [...] has said as much, in journalistic terms. (I have already used up my monthly allotment of free articles on Minnesota Vikings stories, but do a search and you’ll see what I mean.)
Link? Even if you can't read the article(s) in question anymore because you're over your quota, can you point us to the URL(s) so we can in fact see what you mean without having to guess?

Last edited by Kimstu; 08-13-2019 at 08:45 PM.
  #243  
Old 08-13-2019, 08:52 PM
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I believe Kavanaugh lied his way onto the Court.

I also believe there’s something very hinky about Omar’s marriage history, and the Minneapolis Star-Tribune (no right wing rag) has said as much, in journalistic terms. (I have already used up my monthly allotment of free articles on Minnesota Vikings stories, but do a search and you’ll see what I mean.)
Is it as hinky as an Uber driver who drives Eastern European woman with a questionable legal status from a strip club to a hotel room?
  #244  
Old 08-13-2019, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
I believe Kavanaugh lied his way onto the Court.

I also believe there’s something very hinky about Omar’s marriage history, and the Minneapolis Star-Tribune (no right wing rag) has said as much, in journalistic terms. (I have already used up my monthly allotment of free articles on Minnesota Vikings stories, but do a search and you’ll see what I mean.)
Wait, how many Vikings players do you think she was married to? Serially or all at once?
  #245  
Old 08-13-2019, 10:14 PM
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I’ll point out for the umpteenth time that Manson (and by the way I gave someone a ride home from his Fargodome concert last week, lol) is desperately spinning my doing what every other Uber driver does on a regular basis (and there are about a million of us just in the US alone). IOW, grasping at straws for dirt on me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
Link? Even if you can’t read the article(s) in question anymore because you’re over your quota, can you point us to the URL(s) so we can in fact see what you mean without having to guess?

How would that work? I would have to scan through articles to look for the one I mean, and I can’t do that. If I remembered specific verbiage from the article I could Google that — but I don’t, sorry. I just remember that I was reading the Strib about her (probably the dead tree version at my in-laws’ house, because I wouldn’t waste a free online article on that) and her marriage and that it all seemed rather dubious. And I don’t agree with you that when someone is running for public office, it’s none of the public’s business.
  #246  
Old 08-13-2019, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Not Carlson View Post
Now, three questions:
1) You really seem hung up on those social media posts. What, if anything, do you think they prove?
If I'm saying, "Don't be lazy." Then asking me, "What does this prove?", is a strange follow-up. And particularly not if you're also quoting me as saying that I don't believe that there's proof.

I'm not interested in this thread beyond to get people to either stop nagging me elsewhere or to get them to stop being intellectually lazy.

Quote:
2) You’ve told myself and others what we should be doing. What is your message to the OP?
To also not be a lazy asshole and actually do some work or find a better hobby than trolling people if he thinks that Omar is boinking her brother or whatever else. None of this topic seems to be anything but idiots parading around on both sides.

Quote:
3) If you agree that there is currently no substantial evidence against Omar, why the great dance about traffic tickets, social media posts, and “some folks are saying” journalism? Do you just enjoy playing devil’s advocate, or do you actually have contempt for this congresswoman?
My stance on Omar is that I'm glad she's in Congress, in general. If it were just people like her, not so much (I'm not progressive) but Congress wildly needs more diversity.

But as I've said, the question was raised, I investigated, I issued a determination. I was willing to debate the quality and import of the evidence. I've since stopped caring and migrated into simply being annoyed at the quality of human on the site (in the Pit). Maybe I've just spent too much of my SDMB career in Great Debates, arguing against conspiracy theorists, but seeing a bunch of people who are meant to be dedicated to fighting ignorance practicing denialism is disappointing. If you're looking at a picture of text written in Somali and telling me that the image was faked, I don't give a rat's ass whether that image is proof of X, Y, or Z, there's a predicate issue that I'm talking to someone who thinks that a right wing idiot spent three years learning fucking Somali so that he could fake a conspiracy against a specific Congressperson.

No, they did not spend 3 years learning fucking Somali. Or, if you believe that they did, you need to show me some better evidence than simply telling me that "Omar is innocent ergo that's fake."

Awesome. Well you know what, that's what the people on the right are doing with Trump. "He's innocent ergo that's been faked."

There's a difference between evidence, proof, and what I'll call "credence".

If a woman claims that Trump molested her, that claim has credence. Saying that her accusation has credence is not the same thing as saying that Trump is guilty of molesting that woman in specific. It means that there's sufficient evidence in that case or in other cases (or the simple number of similar accusations) that pretty much any new accusation has credence. But she could also be a complete liar. Saying that a hypothetical has credence is a different thing from saying "This is what happened. I have proved/disproved it."

There is no such thing as proof. There is only evidence and evidence doesn't mean proof, it means a thing that can be used to reduce the spectrum of hypotheticals.

If your brain only accepts the idea that you can support a person (or idea) or be against a person (or idea), and can't handle the concept of spectrums of eventualities, and to genuinely not care where on the spectrum the ultimate answer ends up, then your brain is broken. Your condition saddens me about the fate of our species if you exist even here.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 08-13-2019 at 11:47 PM.
  #247  
Old 08-14-2019, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
I'm not interested in this thread beyond to get people to either stop nagging me elsewhere or to get them to stop being intellectually lazy. [...]

To also not be a lazy asshole and actually do some work [...]

[...] seeing a bunch of people who are meant to be dedicated to fighting ignorance practicing denialism is disappointing. [...]
There is nothing "intellectually lazy", or "denialist", or "assholish", or anything else objectionable about continuing to be skeptical about a poorly supported accusation that even its own most ardent supporters have not managed to come up with any factual evidence for.

Nor is there anything particularly meritorious about continuing to engage with assloads of unsubstantiated gossip and speculation in order to have the fun of deciding what parts of it seem plausible or implausible to you personally. Feel free to carry on with it for all time if you enjoy it, but trying to scold other people into imagining that they have some kind of intellectual responsibility to participate in it is bullshit.

You're not fighting ignorance, you're playing a pointless neverending game of pattycake with ignorance and trying to dignify it with serious-sounding terms like "work" and "investigating" and "the spectrum of hypotheticals". The fact that other people are making fun of you for this rather than trotting off obediently to help faff around with further inconclusive information about additional unsupported speculations does not mean they're "lazy assholes" or that their "brain is broken".
  #248  
Old 08-14-2019, 03:55 AM
Not Carlson is offline
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Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
If I'm saying, "Don't be lazy." Then asking me, "What does this prove?", is a strange follow-up. And particularly not if you're also quoting me as saying that I don't believe that there's proof.
Dear Sage Rat,

Firstly, kindly stop wagging your finger.

Secondly, rather than typing a half-dozen or so paragraphs scolding me and my fellow sloths, how about just answering the question: "What , if anything, do YOU think they [are evidence toward]"? *
*["proof" being but a figment of lesser minds.]

I haven't said the images are faked!
Let alone make some bonkers claim about precognitive right-wing trolls enrolling in 3-year Somali language courses.
I'm just curious why YOU think they're so pertinent to the accusation that Ilham Omar married her brother.

Again, the context of this discussion is that, as you acknowledge, a lazy asshole (not me, Annoyed) posted a spurious accusation and then buggered off.

A bunch of folks said "well that looks like bullshit."
And then you come along with gumboots and shovel saying "Don't be lazy! Let me show you how it's done!"
After some vigorous shoveling, you declare "Well, on a spectrum of herbaceous digestion, it currently appears to be bullshit . . . OR IS IT?"

Ok, I'm being silly.
Please tell me what you think those social media posts and photos indicate, and where on your spectrum of evidence you feel they lie.
  #249  
Old 08-14-2019, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
There is nothing "intellectually lazy", or "denialist", or "assholish", or anything else objectionable about continuing to be skeptical about a poorly supported accusation that even its own most ardent supporters have not managed to come up with any factual evidence for.
Thank you, Kimtsu.
You have articulated my feelings much better than I could have.

Nevertheless, for my part, I am curious why Sage Rat thinks those social media posts and images are such a big deal. (Or if he doesn't, why he's spent so much time insisting that we give them especial consideration.)
  #250  
Old 08-14-2019, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
There's a difference between evidence, proof, and what I'll call "credence".

If a woman claims that Trump molested her, that claim has credence. Saying that her accusation has credence is not the same thing as saying that Trump is guilty of molesting that woman in specific. It means that there's sufficient evidence in that case or in other cases (or the simple number of similar accusations) that pretty much any new accusation has credence. But she could also be a complete liar. Saying that a hypothetical has credence is a different thing from saying "This is what happened. I have proved/disproved it."
This claim about Omar does not have credence.

It isn't made by someone who purports to have actual knowledge about her and her family. The claim is counter to what is openly known about her family and circumstance. The claim also requires a series of bizarre actions to be taken, not the least of which is a father abandoning his 5 year old son while fleeing Somalia with the rest of the kids, and that son choosing to become a US citizen via a felonious sham marriage rather than just doing it legally, which was his right to do.

Since the claim is made by someone with zero personal knowledge of the situation, in order to HAVE credence they need to present evidence, and they have not.
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