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  #51  
Old 05-21-2015, 11:31 PM
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The most recent episode of the show featured Michelle describing how girls should dress modestly so as not to inflame male desires. She loves to tell the story of how, as a teenager, she would mow her lawn wearing a bikini (this was before she found Christ). All of her neighbors' wives hated her and she couldn't figure out why. After she became a fundamentalist she decided that she was guilty of "defrauding" their husbands.

Given the attitudes of their parents, it's highly likely that Josh's sisters feel partly responsible for what Josh did to them.

Last edited by SaharaTea; 05-21-2015 at 11:34 PM.
  #52  
Old 05-21-2015, 11:36 PM
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They do? Cite?
It's the belief of the cult of Gothard, who coincidentally is also a sexual offender. Woman and girls must keep covered, lest they stir up feelings of desire in men, that cannot be righteously fulfilled outside of marriage. They refer to it as defrauding the man. That comes right from the mouths of JimBob and Michelle.
  #53  
Old 05-22-2015, 02:23 AM
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Betcha a nickel the girls never received any counseling, beyond, "Never speak of your shame; it would ruin your brother's life."
  #54  
Old 05-22-2015, 02:36 AM
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Stupid teenagers do stupid shit. Not condoning his behavior, and not saying I did anything like that when I was a kid, but dang I did some dumbass embarrassing shit when I was a teen.
Molesting one's siblings goes way beyond "dumbass embarassing shit".
  #55  
Old 05-22-2015, 05:42 AM
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I'm a bit behind the curve here. How does it come to pass that this is being revealed NOW?

Also I confess to being mildly curious as to whether the FRC was kept in the dark about the situation while Master Duggar was negotiating the terms of his employment.
  #56  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:07 AM
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The most recent episode of the show featured Michelle describing how girls should dress modestly so as not to inflame male desires. She loves to tell the story of how, as a teenager, she would mow her lawn wearing a bikini (this was before she found Christ). All of her neighbors' wives hated her and she couldn't figure out why. After she became a fundamentalist she decided that she was guilty of "defrauding" their husbands.

Given the attitudes of their parents, it's highly likely that Josh's sisters feel partly responsible for what Josh did to them.
I'm glad I've avoided this horrible show. WTF!
  #57  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:23 AM
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Molesting one's siblings goes way beyond "dumbass embarassing shit".
I did all kinds of "dumbass embarrassing shit" as a teenager. Molesting my brother or sister? Nope.

Show of hands. Who here molested their siblings as a teen?
  #58  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:55 AM
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According to their statement the family got counseling for "those affected," but I'm sure it was church counseling, not trained professionals for helping victims of sexual abuse.
  #59  
Old 05-22-2015, 07:56 AM
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Sexual abuse of siblings is not youthful shenanigans.
  #60  
Old 05-22-2015, 08:03 AM
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I'm a bit behind the curve here. How does it come to pass that this is being revealed NOW?
I assume that it came out now because Josh was set to become executive director of the FRC and people looked much more closely at his background. When he was just a reality TV participant, he didn't have the level of scrutiny that he has now, and people who were content to sit on this decided it was now time to talk.
  #61  
Old 05-22-2015, 08:06 AM
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Show of hands. Who here molested their siblings as a teen?
Sorry, but my hands are kinda busy at the moment! Heh heh!


What? What's with the looks? Inappropriate how?
  #62  
Old 05-22-2015, 08:47 AM
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I assume that it came out now because Josh was set to become executive director of the FRC and people looked much more closely at his background. When he was just a reality TV participant, he didn't have the level of scrutiny that he has now, and people who were content to sit on this decided it was now time to talk.
He's been with the FRC for a couple of years already. I think it came out now because he was mumbling about a run for office. With no college degree, and a GED from "The school of the dining room table".

The police report also show one of the kids talking about being beaten with a "rod". That must be a from when the parents were being guided by that horrible book "To Train Up A Child".

Last edited by Honey; 05-22-2015 at 08:50 AM.
  #63  
Old 05-22-2015, 08:51 AM
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The FRC is an evil organization with a crazy, stupid agenda. Not content to be homophobic, anti-birth control and anti divorce those fuckers have this to say about the gardasil, a vaccine designed to help prevent cancer:

Quote:
The New Scientist in Britain quoted the Family Research Council's Bridget Maher warning that "giving the HPV vaccine to young women could be potentially harmful, because they may see it as a licence to engage in premarital sex."

http://content.time.com/time/nation/...206813,00.html
Because my eldest daughter was eleven when she got it. As most of aren't Duggars, we don't think of eleven year olds and promiscuous sex.

  #64  
Old 05-22-2015, 10:07 AM
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It's the belief of the cult of Gothard, who coincidentally is also a sexual offender. Woman and girls must keep covered, lest they stir up feelings of desire in men, that cannot be righteously fulfilled outside of marriage. They refer to it as defrauding the man. That comes right from the mouths of JimBob and Michelle.
Even if that's true -- and you don't cite it either -- that's not quite what you said before.

As a reminder:

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The worst part is that JimBob and J'chelle believe that if a woman is sexually assaulted it's her fault for stirring up desires in the male.
So I'm still interested in a cite for your claim that Jim Bob and Michelle believe that if a woman is sexually assaulted it's her fault for stirring up desires in the male.
  #65  
Old 05-22-2015, 10:22 AM
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The FRC is an evil organization with a crazy, stupid agenda. Not content to be homophobic, anti-birth control and anti divorce those fuckers have this to say about the gardasil, a vaccine designed to help prevent cancer:



Because my eldest daughter was eleven when she got it. As most of aren't Duggars, we don't think of eleven year olds and promiscuous sex.

This is an incoherent argument.
  1. Gardasil is intended to prevent infection by the Human Papillomavirus (HPV)
  2. HPV infections are almost always the result of sexual activity
  3. some HPV infections progress from sub-clinical to clinical, and those are the main cause of cervical cancer

The FRC's claim, as I understand it, is that the better way to avoid HPV-related cervical cancer is to refrain from extra-martial sex, and marry a spouse who has also refrained from extra-martial sex and continues to do so during the marriage.

The FRC feels, it seems to me, that by vaccinating your eleven year old daughter now, you are giving her a license to engage in extra-martial sex at some future point in her life, presumably after she's reached sexual maturity and not at age eleven.

Now, there are obviously holes in the FRC's argument big enough to drive a fleet of trucks into, side-by-side.

But your suggestion that the FRC is "thinking of eleven year olds and promiscuous sex," is a strawman approach to their actual argument. They're not. They're thinking of eleven year olds growing up, and than, at some point in the future, engaging in promiscuous sex.

Since the FRC's actual argument is so weak, it seems to me to be wholly unnecessary to strawman them. Their actual argument is: we care so much about avoiding extramarital sex that we're willing to punish a transgressor with cervical cancer. In my view, that says enough to evaluate their priorities on the matter just fine.
  #66  
Old 05-22-2015, 11:01 AM
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Okay Bricker you made your point. It's a petty and stupid point but go ahead and have your little moment of happiness and minor nitpickery.



Given the fact that the HPV vaccine helps preserve female fertility -- something the FRC prizes above just about anything else -- there's something rather bizarre about their lobbying against a method to help preserve a woman's ability to bear children. There's also something rather vaguely schadenfraudish about their hiring a man who molested his sisters and may even have HPV (like many men) and as a result may have damaged their potential fertility during the course of his abuse.
  #67  
Old 05-22-2015, 11:02 AM
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I don't even follow the show that closely, but it's trivially easy to look at the ages in relation to what we know of the siblings birth order and spacing between ages. They'd have been between 8 and 12.

I hang out at the Free Jinger website (dedicated to exposing fundamentalist nonsense and snarking on folks like the Duggars) and not only has this been blowing up since it officially came to light, but it's been speculated on for years. As such, folks there have been literally combing the police reports in an attempt to make sense of all this. So, according to the mention of the first "filing" (for lack of a better term), this happened in 2003. The oldest sibling behind Josh was said to not have been molested and the identifying markers to correlate with the redacted name was the fact that they were getting their GED and liked working on cars. By a process of elimination (and how long the length of the names are under the blackouts), that means the youngest would be included in those who were abused. That means, at the time, she would have been FOUR years old. That's no youthful hijacks I've ever experienced or known anyone not a sketchy son of a bitch to.

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If you read the police report it says that the victims were the children of JimBob and Michelle Duggar.

And that 4 out of the 5 victims lived at the residence of JimBob and Michelle.

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I'm a bit behind the curve here. How does it come to pass that this is being revealed NOW?

Also I confess to being mildly curious as to whether the FRC was kept in the dark about the situation while Master Duggar was negotiating the terms of his employment.

Couple of trains of thought on the former. In Arkansas, anyone can request this kind of stuff under the Freedom of Information Act. One idea is that the Duggars are being pushed into heavy rotation these days (lots of People spreads and segments on Good Morning, America, for example) that more people are trying to dig up dirt. Others think that only someone involved can request a police report involving minors, so therefore it had to be someone assaulted. A couple of the older girls have left the nest, got married and are reproducing themselves, so might want to expose all this in an attempt to protect their own offspring. Lastly, Josh had political aspirations and many wonder if a rival did this to sink him. Who knows though?

As to the latter, it isn't coincidental, I don't think, that this hit after the show ended, before a long weekend. PR people say that's the best time to break a story like this if you want to defend the guilty. That way, people are to rushed to spend their holiday to pay much attention and by the time they get back to it, they've mostly forgotten and don't care. The responses, from the family and the FRC, appear thought out in advance and seem to be much ado about nothing. Josh hashed time to land a house back near hear parents (why if he plans to stay working?) and the kids who've left home and have been little involved with the group of late, were all ensconced and around everyone together well before this hit the media. Just some speculation floating around out there.

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According to their statement the family got counseling for "those affected," but I'm sure it was church counseling, not trained professionals for helping victims of sexual abuse.

Yeah, no. He got shipped off to do construction work with a family friend. There's some question whether or no he was sent to ALERT, which sounds like some sort of re-education camp type thing for wayward Christian youth. We see how well that's worked for gay kids born into these destructive environments.
  #68  
Old 05-22-2015, 11:06 AM
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It doesn't surprise me in the least that something like this happened. The Duggars' warped ideas about sexuality have led them to raising their children in a very unhealthy environment. I do feel sorry for Josh as he was 12 years ago: a confused, repressed teenager who was being taught all sorts of nutty things (and not only about sexuality). Of course, I feel even more sympathy for his sisters who were the victims of that confusion and repression. I very much doubt that any of them received any effective counseling. They were probably all told that Satan was responsible and they needed to pray more.

I do hope that these revelations mean that the Duggars vanish from public view. I expect they will always be popular on the fundamentalist homeschooling Quiverfull circuit, but if they would disappear from mainstream magazine covers and TV, that would be a true blessing. Can I get an amen?
  #69  
Old 05-22-2015, 11:10 AM
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The truth is that the Duggars are terrible people. And they don't get one tenth of the condemnation they deserve in our society. The promote homophobia, sexism, planetary overpopulation, the view of women as essentially nothing more than vessels for childbearing, creation "science," dangerous and stupid child rearing practices such as blanket training, pure female submission to men and the imposition of an extremist Christian theocracy on the rest of us in place of our democracy. I hope this will finally lead to the cancellation of their show and a shunning by most mainstream media.

Something's wrong with you when you make the Kardashians look like models of sanity and rationality.
  #70  
Old 05-22-2015, 11:12 AM
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It doesn't surprise me in the least that something like this happened. The Duggars' warped ideas about sexuality have led them to raising their children in a very unhealthy environment. I do feel sorry for Josh as he was 12 years ago: a confused, repressed teenager who was being taught all sorts of nutty things (and not only about sexuality). Of course, I feel even more sympathy for his sisters who were the victims of that confusion and repression. I very much doubt that any of them received any effective counseling. They were probably all told that Satan was responsible and they needed to pray more.

I do hope that these revelations mean that the Duggars vanish from public view. I expect they will always be popular on the fundamentalist homeschooling Quiverfull circuit, but if they would disappear from mainstream magazine covers and TV, that would be a true blessing. Can I get an amen?
AMEN!

Let them actually practice modesty and get the hell out of the media!
  #71  
Old 05-22-2015, 11:33 AM
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I think Jim Bob started doing the show out of a genuine desire to share their beliefs and help other families. But like many reality show families, he got swept up in the money and publicity and failed to consider the effects of all that public scrutiny on his kids.

I find their views abhorrent, but I also hate how the kids get ripped apart every time they post something on social media. They are just parroting what their parents taught them.
  #72  
Old 05-22-2015, 12:11 PM
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Yeah, no. He got shipped off to do construction work with a family friend. There's some question whether or no he was sent to ALERT, which sounds like some sort of re-education camp type thing for wayward Christian youth. We see how well that's worked for gay kids born into these destructive environments.
The family's statement, widely circulated in the press this morning, said that all those affected (e.g., the victims) got counseling. But yes, the nature of his counseling makes me think the girls were sat down in a room with some guy in their church who told them Jesus was all about forgiveness.
  #73  
Old 05-22-2015, 12:35 PM
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Okay Bricker you made your point. It's a petty and stupid point but go ahead and have your little moment of happiness and minor nitpickery.
Obviously, I don't agree with this criticism.

An unspoken attitude that seems quite prevalent here at the SDMB is that when a disdained target is discussed, any accusations against that target are fair game. After all, who would want to defend ________ against anything?

This runs counter to the slogan that supposedly animates the SDMB: fighting ignorance. I don't have any real interest in defending the Family Research Council, but I have even less interest in seeing inaccurate accusations flourish against them.

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Given the fact that the HPV vaccine helps preserve female fertility -- something the FRC prizes above just about anything else -- there's something rather bizarre about their lobbying against a method to help preserve a woman's ability to bear children.
Well, I don't know how much they prize fertility, but I agree (and said as much above) that their priorities are severely misplaced if they think it's good to have cervical cancer as a result of a momentary lapse of judgement. Of course, the solution also protects those for whom the "lapse" is not momentary and who don't see it as a lapse, but what of it?

Quote:
There's also something rather vaguely schadenfraudish about their hiring a man who molested his sisters and may even have HPV (like many men) and as a result may have damaged their potential fertility during the course of his abuse.
My understanding is that his acts were limited to fondling the genitals and breasts of the girls, sometimes while they slept If that's the case, then transmission of HPV is unlikely in the extreme. And of course his age -- 14 -- makes it unlikely from a statistical standpoint that he had HPV at all.

So this would be another example of extending the argument past the point of sustainability. I absolutely agree that there's something schadenfraudish about the FRC hiring a man who molested his sisters. If you end the sentence there, it's true, and a fully justified piece of snark; they obviously didn't know about it when they hired him, but given their public image the mere fact that they did is enough to get a 'snerk' in their direction.

The unlikely speculations that follow merely diminish that valid point and focus on another one, one that collapses under the weight of the ad-hoc assumptions that animate it.
  #74  
Old 05-22-2015, 12:43 PM
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It came to light when Oprah suddenly cancelled a scheduled interview with them. Her team had received a tip, did some looking, and chose to back away. Nobody leaked or told, but the cancellation of the interview made others do some digging and that's when it was revealed.
  #75  
Old 05-22-2015, 12:47 PM
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My understanding is that his acts were limited to fondling the genitals and breasts of the girls, sometimes while they slept If that's the case, then transmission of HPV is unlikely in the extreme. And of course his age -- 14 -- makes it unlikely from a statistical standpoint that he had HPV at all.
<snark>He could have gotten it from Michelle.

Or JimBob. </snark>
  #76  
Old 05-22-2015, 12:57 PM
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It doesn't surprise me in the least that something like this happened. The Duggars' warped ideas about sexuality have led them to raising their children in a very unhealthy environment. I do feel sorry for Josh as he was 12 years ago: a confused, repressed teenager who was being taught all sorts of nutty things (and not only about sexuality). Of course, I feel even more sympathy for his sisters who were the victims of that confusion and repression. I very much doubt that any of them received any effective counseling. They were probably all told that Satan was responsible and they needed to pray more.

I do hope that these revelations mean that the Duggars vanish from public view. I expect they will always be popular on the fundamentalist homeschooling Quiverfull circuit, but if they would disappear from mainstream magazine covers and TV, that would be a true blessing. Can I get an amen?
Amen. I do feel sorry for Josh to some extent, he was not raised in a normal household. But of course I feel much more sorry for his victims.

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The family's statement, widely circulated in the press this morning, said that all those affected (e.g., the victims) got counseling. But yes, the nature of his counseling makes me think the girls were sat down in a room with some guy in their church who told them Jesus was all about forgiveness.
I agree, I hope the girls got counseling, but I doubt that it was adequate.

Another thing that I don't think I saw anyone mention here, but the men in the family (and their overall subculture) do seem to have a more weighted opinion than women do. From a Today.com article from last year about the "Duggar's rules of courtship":

Quote:
Rule 3: Brothers know best.


All of the Duggar boys have been chaperones to Ben and Jessa, even the younger ones who will go along with them to a coffee shop or out to dinner. Jim Bob and Michelle say there is something special about the way brothers size up a potential suitor. “The brothers can see how they treat mom and dad, or see whether they show the sisters respect,” Michelle says, adding that each brother has given Jessa their opinion of Ben.
I don't know what exactly that means, if the boys just give their opinions on what the girls should do with their dating lives and the girls can disregard, or if what they say goes and the girls have to fall in line. If the brothers do have authority over the sisters, that's weird and gross for any family, but takes on an extra layer if a brother who molested his sisters later has control over their dating lives.
  #77  
Old 05-22-2015, 01:04 PM
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It came to light when Oprah suddenly cancelled a scheduled interview with them. Her team had received a tip, did some looking, and chose to back away. Nobody leaked or told, but the cancellation of the interview made others do some digging and that's when it was revealed.
Somebody leaked it to Oprah, then. And then others did some more digging.
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Old 05-22-2015, 01:07 PM
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I find their views abhorrent, but I also hate how the kids get ripped apart every time they post something on social media. They are just parroting what their parents taught them.
The eldest kids are in their twenties. They're not kids anymore. Several of them are married with kids. If they don't want to get ripped apart then they should rethink putting themselves out there at every turn. The last time I went food shopping a Duggar girl was staring me in the face at the checkout counter because she was on the cover of People magazine merely for giving birth. My twelve year old daughter knows all of their names and asked me about what happened yesterday. The only good part about it is that I was able to have a sane talk with her about what constitutes appropriate touching.

The best thing that could happen for the television show to get cancelled and for the cameras to go away. Maybe then their kids will grow up to see other options in life besides having enormous families and attempting to impose Christian theocracy on the rest of us. It's about time they got a decent education ideally from someone besides Ma Duggar and her shitty School of the Dining Room Table. Maybe then they might walk away from the crappy Quiverfull idiocy they espouse and away from sexism, homophobia and scientific illiteracy.
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Old 05-22-2015, 01:08 PM
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Even if that's true -- and you don't cite it either -- that's not quite what you said before.

As a reminder:



So I'm still interested in a cite for your claim that Jim Bob and Michelle believe that if a woman is sexually assaulted it's her fault for stirring up desires in the male.
My cite is that I've heard Jim Bob and Michelle say on many occasions that it's the woman's responsibility not to stir up sexual desires in men.

Here's a cite for how Gothard followers handles sexual abuse. Jim Bob and Michelle are have been avid Gothard followers for years.

Counseling sexual abuse
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Old 05-22-2015, 01:17 PM
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This is all gross, but I sincerely wonder if Duggar looked at his much younger sisters (and (Ewwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!) felt them) because he never had any sex ed of any kind. He maybe wanted to know what was up with female genitalia.

That makes it a bit less absolutely horrific IMO. He's responsible for his behavior, but that fucked up system they live in is partly to blame too. Kids play doctor. They're curious about what the other sex looks like naked. I assume the Duggar children have no unrelated acquaintances.
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Old 05-22-2015, 01:17 PM
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Obviously, I don't agree with this criticism.

An unspoken attitude that seems quite prevalent here at the SDMB is that when a disdained target is discussed, any accusations against that target are fair game. After all, who would want to defend ________ against anything?
Usually the disdained targets already have massive issues with reliability and credibility. When someone's been caught lying, or cheating, or said some easily refuted lies, they have less credibility when they make their next outrageous claim. The Duggars and the FRC are a bunch of fundamentalist shitheads with non-science views and a love of bigotry. That's the starting point. So when they do something shitty like this, they don't get the same benefit of the doubt that someone honest like Obama gets. They are held to a different standard because they are different.

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This runs counter to the slogan that supposedly animates the SDMB: fighting ignorance. I don't have any real interest in defending the Family Research Council, but I have even less interest in seeing inaccurate accusations flourish against them.
I don't think so. You don't generally speak up when its about liberals. You either don't participate when they are getting trashed or you only participate when its conservatives. I'm not going to comb through any posts, too lazy, but I will ask that if its not true, you go into the Stupid Liberal Idea of the Day and defend the next 3 dumb liberal ideas with your usual panache of nitpicking and legal semantics
  #82  
Old 05-22-2015, 01:28 PM
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I hang out at the Free Jinger website (dedicated to exposing fundamentalist nonsense and snarking on folks like the Duggars) and not only has this been blowing up since it officially came to light, but it's been speculated on for years. As such, folks there have been literally combing the police reports in an attempt to make sense of all this. So, according to the mention of the first "filing" (for lack of a better term), this happened in 2003. The oldest sibling behind Josh was said to not have been molested and the identifying markers to correlate with the redacted name was the fact that they were getting their GED and liked working on cars. By a process of elimination (and how long the length of the names are under the blackouts), that means the youngest would be included in those who were abused. That means, at the time, she would have been FOUR years old. That's no youthful hijacks I've ever experienced or known anyone not a sketchy son of a bitch to.




And that 4 out of the 5 victims lived at the residence of JimBob and Michelle.




Couple of trains of thought on the former. In Arkansas, anyone can request this kind of stuff under the Freedom of Information Act. One idea is that the Duggars are being pushed into heavy rotation these days (lots of People spreads and segments on Good Morning, America, for example) that more people are trying to dig up dirt. Others think that only someone involved can request a police report involving minors, so therefore it had to be someone assaulted. A couple of the older girls have left the nest, got married and are reproducing themselves, so might want to expose all this in an attempt to protect their own offspring. Lastly, Josh had political aspirations and many wonder if a rival did this to sink him. Who knows though?

As to the latter, it isn't coincidental, I don't think, that this hit after the show ended, before a long weekend. PR people say that's the best time to break a story like this if you want to defend the guilty. That way, people are to rushed to spend their holiday to pay much attention and by the time they get back to it, they've mostly forgotten and don't care. The responses, from the family and the FRC, appear thought out in advance and seem to be much ado about nothing. Josh hashed time to land a house back near hear parents (why if he plans to stay working?) and the kids who've left home and have been little involved with the group of late, were all ensconced and around everyone together well before this hit the media. Just some speculation floating around out there.




Yeah, no. He got shipped off to do construction work with a family friend. There's some question whether or no he was sent to ALERT, which sounds like some sort of re-education camp type thing for wayward Christian youth. We see how well that's worked for gay kids born into these destructive environments.
I hang out there sometimes too. This is the "Sin in the camp" thing that people were talking about a few years ago. At the time we were speculating that Josh may have kissed Jim Holt's daughter. Boy, were be ever wrong.

I wonder if this is the reason why even with a 7,000 square foot house, the girls all sleep in one room, and the boys in another. It would protect the girls at night from someone abusing them while they slept.
  #83  
Old 05-22-2015, 01:29 PM
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This is all gross, but I sincerely wonder if Duggar looked at his much younger sisters (and (Ewwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!) felt them) because he never had any sex ed of any kind. He maybe wanted to know what was up with female genitalia.

That makes it a bit less absolutely horrific IMO. He's responsible for his behavior, but that fucked up system they live in is partly to blame too. Kids play doctor. They're curious about what the other sex looks like naked. I assume the Duggar children have no unrelated acquaintances.
It is likely, considering the ages, that he at least saw some of them in diapers, and maybe even changed diapers when they were younger. IIRC, that is in part how Michelle was able to cope with so many kids, the older ones took care of the younger ones. So he, more than other young boys, probably had a good idea on the physical differences between boys and girls. So he likely knew how it looked.

If this happened in 2003, he was around 14-15, and the youngest sister born at the time was 5-6 (per Wikipedia). He was a juvenile too, so in a way I'm more bothered by how the adults managed the case than him. Now, if he does the same now, when he's nearing 30, it will be different.
  #84  
Old 05-22-2015, 01:38 PM
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And that 4 out of the 5 victims lived at the residence of JimBob and Michelle.


The 5th victim was sleeping on the couch at the time. Who else could it be but cousin Amy?
  #85  
Old 05-22-2015, 01:44 PM
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You think the brothers got stuck child rearing and diaper changing? In such a male dominant household? I doubt that very much.
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Old 05-22-2015, 01:45 PM
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TMZ is reporting that General Mills has already pulled their advertising from the show, and TLC has canceled all planned airings of repeats. It's just a matter of time before the whole show is canceled.
  #87  
Old 05-22-2015, 01:47 PM
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My cite is that I've heard Jim Bob and Michelle say on many occasions that it's the woman's responsibility not to stir up sexual desires in men.

Here's a cite for how Gothard followers handles sexual abuse. Jim Bob and Michelle are have been avid Gothard followers for years.

Counseling sexual abuse
I was actually going to post that same link. Point 4 is particularly vile - Why did God let this happen? As a result of defrauding ( immodest dress on the part of the victim is suggested ) and then point 6- IF the abused is not at fault ...

You know what? The whole thing is pretty bad.
  #88  
Old 05-22-2015, 01:50 PM
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TMZ is reporting that General Mills has already pulled their advertising from the show, and TLC has canceled all planned airings of repeats. It's just a matter of time before the whole show is canceled.
Just wait until Sarah Palin crows that the Duggars' freedom of speech is being oppressed and TLC reverses course.
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Old 05-22-2015, 01:53 PM
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Just wait until Sarah Palin crows that the Duggars' freedom of speech is being oppressed and TLC reverses course.
Why would they listen to that raven maniac?
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Old 05-22-2015, 02:03 PM
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Why would they listen to that raven maniac?
It got the Robertsons their show back.
  #91  
Old 05-22-2015, 02:14 PM
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The family's statement, widely circulated in the press this morning, said that all those affected (e.g., the victims) got counseling. But yes, the nature of his counseling makes me think the girls were sat down in a room with some guy in their church who told them Jesus was all about forgiveness.

Some say the girls might've been sent to something called Journey [of / to / from?] the Heart. I'm sure that's a female equivalent of ALERT. Barring that, I have no doubt you're 100% accurate.

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Somebody leaked it to Oprah, then. And then others did some more digging.

Due to the age of the person listed in the report who supposedly was behind that, some were theorizing that it was one of the grandmothers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey View Post
My cite is that I've heard Jim Bob and Michelle say on many occasions that it's the woman's responsibility not to stir up sexual desires in men.



Here's a cite for how Gothard followers handles sexual abuse. Jim Bob and Michelle are have been avid Gothard followers for years.



Counseling sexual abuse

And tangentially, there's the whole "Nike!" thing. When out and about in public, the girls, if they catch it first, shout that to their brothers if they see a woman who is immodestly dressed. That way, they're helping to prevent them from sinning. It's always the women's / girl's fault for "defrauding" the males. So disgusting. Not to mention damaging when something like this occurs. Then you have victims blaming themselves.

Quote:
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I hang out there sometimes too. This is the "Sin in the camp" thing that people were talking about a few years ago. At the time we were speculating that Josh may have kissed Jim Holt's daughter. Boy, were be ever wrong.



I wonder if this is the reason why even with a 7,000 square foot house, the girls all sleep in one room, and the boys in another. It would protect the girls at night from someone abusing them while they slept.

Could be, as several folks mentioned that and the fact that in the earlier episodes, the girls slept in their clothes. If so, dear God that's horrific.

Quote:
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The 5th victim was sleeping on the couch at the time. Who else could it be but cousin Amy?

That's a good question. Most seem to say that they feel she would've been too old, as that would've made her around 16. I don't know. I just wonder if whoever the other victim is, if she's the one that's requesting the original file be destroyed. It says she's still a minor though, so that only leaves Joy. Who might be coerced from her God awful parents doing spin control on their golden child.

Gah, doesn't matter though. At least the gravy train is about to be over. Not so much for others caught up in their warped kind of worldview.
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Old 05-22-2015, 02:41 PM
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Politician Mike Huckabee weighs in with a bit of inane drivel in support of them. They weren't open and honest. They hushed it up, told the girls to shut up and tried to pretend it never happened in the first place. But he's not gay so it's a-okay!
  #93  
Old 05-22-2015, 03:31 PM
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TMZ is reporting that General Mills has already pulled their advertising from the show, and TLC has canceled all planned airings of repeats. It's just a matter of time before the whole show is canceled.
I agree, TLC will likely cancel the show pretty soon. They canceled Here Comes Honey Boo Boo, including not airing an already taped season, and it was because the mother was dating a child molester, not because one of the featured people on the show was one.

However, it seems that TLC would have had to already know about this. The Oprah special in 2006 was taped but never shown because someone alerted Oprah's production company about the allegations. It seems unlikely that someone would blow the whistle then, but never say anything to TLC.
  #94  
Old 05-22-2015, 03:45 PM
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Stupid teenagers do stupid shit. Not condoning his behavior, and not saying I did anything like that when I was a kid, but dang I did some dumbass embarrassing shit when I was a teen.

I hope for his wife and kids' sake that this isn't some ongoing sexual thing with him, and I actually doubt it is. Like I said, stupid teenagers do stupid shit.
"Daaaaaaad! Josh won't stop molesting me."

"DON'T MAKE ME HAVE TO PULL THIS CAR OVER!!!!"
  #95  
Old 05-22-2015, 04:12 PM
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The counseling thing someone linked to is even worse than I imagined.
  #96  
Old 05-22-2015, 04:59 PM
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Politician Mike Huckabee weighs in with a bit of inane drivel in support of them. They weren't open and honest. They hushed it up, told the girls to shut up and tried to pretend it never happened in the first place. But he's not gay so it's a-okay!
W T F

If fictional TV parents had handled this situation in the same way, the Huckabee's of the world would be decrying the lack of morals in Hollywood. But since it is a reality TV family who has capitalized on its wholesome purity and upstandingness all these years, it is suddenly all "Leave Britney alone!" I guess it is easier to condemn the world of make-believe.

Last edited by monstro; 05-22-2015 at 05:00 PM.
  #97  
Old 05-22-2015, 05:09 PM
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Due to the age of the person listed in the report who supposedly was behind that, some were theorizing that it was one of the grandmothers.

Still a bit weird that it didn't surface before. Perhaps it was indeed because Josh was becoming more and more public that finally pushed them to tip someone, or someone finally dug it out.
  #98  
Old 05-22-2015, 05:10 PM
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Yeah, no.

Last edited by Eddie F.; 05-22-2015 at 05:12 PM.
  #99  
Old 05-22-2015, 05:20 PM
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The family's statement, widely circulated in the press this morning, said that all those affected (e.g., the victims) got counseling. But yes, the nature of his counseling makes me think the girls were sat down in a room with some guy in their church who told them Jesus was all about forgiveness.
If it was anything like the 'counseling' I was given at a Gothard facility then it was wholly inadequate. Their idea of counseling is praying a lot and having you beg forgiveness for anything you might have ever done wrong in your life. Including things that you never even did.
  #100  
Old 05-22-2015, 05:50 PM
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However, it seems that TLC would have had to already know about this. The Oprah special in 2006 was taped but never shown because someone alerted Oprah's production company about the allegations. It seems unlikely that someone would blow the whistle then, but never say anything to TLC.

I agree. I think it was determined that all this went in between the early specials and the first couple of seasons. Some have suggested that they'd heard of them having to deal with CPS over it. If so, there's no way that was hidden from TLC. But regardless, I can't imagine that in Hollywood, one production company wouldn't know what their hired help was doing if it was big enough to land on Oprah's radar. I'm just glad that she did something.


Quote:
Originally Posted by monstro View Post
W T F

If fictional TV parents had handled this situation in the same way, the Huckabee's of the world would be decrying the lack of morals in Hollywood. But since it is a reality TV family who has capitalized on its wholesome purity and upstandingness all these years, it is suddenly all "Leave Britney alone!" I guess it is easier to condemn the world of make-believe.

Such a good point. What were these people yelling about Mama June? Were they willing to pray for her pedo ex that was coming back into those kids lives? If he'd never re-offended and repented of his actions, shouldn't it be all the same? But you're right. It's nothing more than hypocritical posturing. Wonder if they'd like Josh to babysit their kids?
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