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  #5001  
Old 07-14-2015, 06:38 PM
Smapti is offline
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
Most people in this thread have the capability to understand it
"People in this thread" != "the human race".

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You are not. You are lacking something, and I'm not sure if you can fix it. I'm sorry, and it's not your fault, whatever you endured. You didn't cause whatever has damaged you.
This is all you've got left. "You're only disagreeing with me because you're mentally ill or stupid, and so is everyone else in the world; if only they had the benefit of the skills I possess, they would all agree with me".

You may as well be shouting about how we need to let the Holy Spirit fill our hearts, for how evidence-free and dogmatic your meaningless proclamations have become.
  #5002  
Old 07-14-2015, 06:42 PM
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This is all you've got left. "You're only disagreeing with me because you're mentally ill or stupid, and so is everyone else in the world; if only they had the benefit of the skills I possess, they would all agree with me".

You may as well be shouting about how we need to let the Holy Spirit fill our hearts, for how evidence-free and dogmatic your meaningless proclamations have become.
Only to you, broken man. I'm very sorry. It's not your fault.
  #5003  
Old 07-14-2015, 09:28 PM
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Steophan, please provide your non-racist explanation for how black culture makes black men more violent.
You ignored it last time I posted it, instead talking about what happens to black people after they've become criminals. Here it is again.

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But the short answer is there's a culture with few good male role models, and a lack of respect for law and society.
  #5004  
Old 07-14-2015, 10:13 PM
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You ignored it last time I posted it, instead talking about what happens to black people after they've become criminals. Here it is again.
No, I didn't ignore it. It's just poorly written in a passive manner, and I want you to make it clear.

What is it that, in your opinion, is special to black people that causes them in particular to have a "culture with few good male role models, and a lack of respect for law and society."
  #5005  
Old 07-15-2015, 12:13 AM
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Gardena police shooting video: Justified or 'cold-blooded' killing?

I'm going to go with yet another "legal murder."
  #5006  
Old 07-15-2015, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian View Post
No, I didn't ignore it. It's just poorly written in a passive manner, and I want you to make it clear.

What is it that, in your opinion, is special to black people that causes them in particular to have a "culture with few good male role models, and a lack of respect for law and society."
I don't think there's anything special (good or bad) about black people. That's why I think it's the culture that's an issue, not something inherent to the people.
  #5007  
Old 07-15-2015, 01:44 AM
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Gardena police shooting video: Justified or 'cold-blooded' killing?

I'm going to go with yet another "legal murder."
Oooh, how are the S- boys gon' justify that'un ?
  #5008  
Old 07-15-2015, 02:08 AM
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There is no such thing as an inherently immoral act.
Yes, you have claimed that you believe that. But then again you also claim that slaves would be immoral to try to free themselves, so I'm pretty happy wagering just whose position is untenable here.

I mean, I could rattle off an entire pile of acts that by their very nature are evil; genocide; raping a toddler; random acts of murder...but I highly suspect that you would argue that there's nothing inherently immoral about them.

Whether this is just you posing for effect, of whether iiandyiii is correct that you're just a broken shell of a person, well that's a trickier question to answer, and frankly it doesn't matter either way. Whether this is a construct, or actually is who you are, either way it's sad beyond measure.
  #5009  
Old 07-15-2015, 04:09 AM
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Oooh, how are the S- boys gon' justify that'un ?
Well, the cops used the magic get-out-of-jail-free words:
Quote:
the officers could not see Diaz Zeferino's right hand as he dropped it toward his waistband and "believed he was going to reach for a weapon."
Also, one of them had a hat in his hand. A hat!

https://youtu.be/AXZL2fmptkU

See how dangerous that thing is? Gotta be a justified shooting!

Last edited by Battle Pope; 07-15-2015 at 04:10 AM.
  #5010  
Old 07-15-2015, 04:41 AM
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Well, the cops used the magic get-out-of-jail-free words:
Yeah, but um... that's not what happens in the video. No hands go nowhere near no waistband. His hands flop down to his sides. He's definitely not quickdrawing his six-shooter.

And while he did pick something out of his back pocket to throw on the ground in what I assume his drunk ass thought was a surreptitious manner, it's quite obviously him getting rid of drugs which a) is no capital offence and b) is something beat cops must see five times a day.

All this over a stolen bicycle, too. Christ.
  #5011  
Old 07-15-2015, 06:51 AM
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I don't think there's anything special (good or bad) about black people. That's why I think it's the culture that's an issue, not something inherent to the people.
Where does culture come from, if not the people? You're trying to say that black people differ from white people in their law abidingness and esponsible fatherhood which.somehow makes them more violent without wanting to accept how racist that is, and for some reason rejecting the explanation that is both more parsimonious AND empirically supported.

You do know that adding "but it isn't genetic" to the end of what you say doesn't make it less horrifically racist, right?
  #5012  
Old 07-15-2015, 07:14 AM
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No, I'm not saying that black people differ from others at all. That you consider what I am saying to be racist just shows that you haven't a clue what you're talking about, and have no interest in actually looking at what's going on to try to solve it.

If there was an explanation for why young black men are several times more violent than anyone else that was both parsimonious and emprically supported I'd obviously be inclined to believe it. In fact, I'm of the opinion that I've supplied such an explanation - something you've yet to do.
  #5013  
Old 07-15-2015, 07:20 AM
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Gardena police shooting video: Justified or 'cold-blooded' killing?

I'm going to go with yet another "legal murder."
Quote:
judge's decision to release the tape capped months of legal battles, with the city fighting to keep the tape private.
Ha Ha! /Nelson
  #5014  
Old 07-15-2015, 08:24 AM
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No, I'm not saying that black people differ from others at all. That you consider what I am saying to be racist just shows that you haven't a clue what you're talking about, and have no interest in actually looking at what's going on to try to solve it.

If there was an explanation for why young black men are several times more violent than anyone else that was both parsimonious and emprically supported I'd obviously be inclined to believe it. In fact, I'm of the opinion that I've supplied such an explanation - something you've yet to do.
I have. Several times. Why have you missed it? Is it too cognitively or emotionally discordant with what you want to be true? Socioeconomic disadvantage and systemic institutional and interpersonal racism. Empirical support for these factors is not in dispute.

Now, let's consider your theoretical model. 1. You observe an outcome of elevated violent behavior among African American men. 2. You posit that the explanation is that, speaking passively, "a culture" exists in which intact families and law abiding behavior are not encouraged. 3. You deny broader US socioeconomic causes. 4. You claim you are not suggesting that black and white people differ.

If black and white people do not differ in the cause, how can they differ in the outcome? Your own model is inherently unable to explain differential outcomes. It includes no mechanism that would lead to variations in the outcomes. Yet, you also deny inherent exogenous differences as well.

You're just a moron who has painted himself into a corner by wanting to claim black people have lower positive values (in this case, family and law) while also somehow denying racism. You can't even fashion a coherent set of connections among constructs and mechanisms in your own model. Just another stupid racist.

Last edited by Hentor the Barbarian; 07-15-2015 at 08:25 AM.
  #5015  
Old 07-15-2015, 08:51 AM
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I have. Several times. Why have you missed it? Is it too cognitively or emotionally discordant with what you want to be true? Socioeconomic disadvantage and systemic institutional and interpersonal racism. Empirical support for these factors is not in dispute.
Black people are not unique in being disadvantaged or discriminate against. So, there is presumably more to it than that.

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You're just a moron who has painted himself into a corner by wanting to claim black people have lower positive values (in this case, family and law) while also somehow denying racism.
Nope. Not making any statements about black people. As usual, you've decided in advance that I'm being racist, and are contorting everything to fit that view. As I said before, you are unable to argue in good faith.

Last edited by Steophan; 07-15-2015 at 08:53 AM.
  #5016  
Old 07-15-2015, 09:07 AM
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Black people are not unique in being disadvantaged or discriminate against. So, there is presumably more to it than that.



Nope. Not making any statements about black people. As usual, you've decided in advance that I'm being racist, and are contorting everything to fit that view. As I said before, you are unable to argue in good faith.
So explain yourself! Same causes, different outcomes? What's your mechanism, idiot? At what point does some difference occur to explain differential outcome?

You can keep running away by crying "bad faith," but it's clear to everyone that this is just straight up evasion.

ETA besides which, your statement that black people are not unique in the US in their experience of discrimination and disadvantage is just fucking laughable and ignorant. Hell, this thread is a detailed accounting of just that.

Last edited by Hentor the Barbarian; 07-15-2015 at 09:11 AM.
  #5017  
Old 07-15-2015, 09:56 AM
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I'd just like to say Smapti's worldview is absolutely fascinating. Abhorrent, obviously, but still, fascinating. I don't think I've ever encountered such an extreme proponent of authoritarianism. I've talked to people who proudly self-identify as honest-to-God fascists and even they wouldn't go as far as he does. Incredible...
  #5018  
Old 07-15-2015, 10:28 AM
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Black people are not unique in being disadvantaged or discriminate against. So, there is presumably more to it than that.
Should the police get more leeway in questioning Chinese suspects, what with them being all inscrutable and all?
  #5019  
Old 07-15-2015, 12:03 PM
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I'd just like to say Smapti's worldview is absolutely fascinating. Abhorrent, obviously, but still, fascinating. I don't think I've ever encountered such an extreme proponent of authoritarianism. I've talked to people who proudly self-identify as honest-to-God fascists and even they wouldn't go as far as he does. Incredible...
He is grotesque, that's for sure.
  #5020  
Old 07-15-2015, 12:22 PM
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So explain yourself! Same causes, different outcomes? What's your mechanism, idiot? At what point does some difference occur to explain differential outcome?

You can keep running away by crying "bad faith," but it's clear to everyone that this is just straight up evasion.

ETA besides which, your statement that black people are not unique in the US in their experience of discrimination and disadvantage is just fucking laughable and ignorant. Hell, this thread is a detailed accounting of just that.
Oh those crazy black people, if they hadn't got themselves all wrapped in chains and shipped across the Atlantic ... they've only themselves to blame.
  #5021  
Old 07-15-2015, 12:57 PM
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Oh those crazy black people, if they hadn't got themselves all wrapped in chains and shipped across the Atlantic ... they've only themselves to blame.
Are you suggesting that groups of Africans, operating on the continent of Africa, raided African villages in order to capture fellow Africans, who were then to be used as slaves, and to be sold as slaves? That is cRaZy.
  #5022  
Old 07-15-2015, 12:58 PM
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Are you suggesting that groups of Africans, operating on the continent of Africa, raided African villages in order to capture fellow Africans, who were then to be used as slaves, and to be sold as slaves? That is cRaZy.
??? What does this have to do with any part of this discussion?

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 07-15-2015 at 12:59 PM.
  #5023  
Old 07-15-2015, 01:07 PM
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Are you suggesting that groups of Africans, operating on the continent of Africa, raided African villages in order to capture fellow Africans, who were then to be used as slaves, and to be sold as slaves? That is cRaZy.
Of course, they only did so upon prompting from Europeans. A lot of prompting. With guns.

Slavery had always been a byproduct of warfare in Africa (and, really, in the Ancient world period) but the dawn of slavery as an Institution with a capital I not only kicked it into overdrive, it also transformed its very nature - the type of chattel slavery that took place in the Americas and West Indies had very, very little in common with the more "benign" form of slavery practiced until then. Which was bad, but not quite Shoah-level horrible. That took White Man's Ingenuity.
Fact is, in Africa and the Muslim world prior to European involvment, many "slaves" wound up wielding the highest levels of political power for example ; and plenty were educated. And the numbers involved were nothing alike, of course.

TL;DR : fuck off, you disingenuous race-baiting prick.
  #5024  
Old 07-15-2015, 01:24 PM
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I mean, I could rattle off an entire pile of acts that by their very nature are evil; genocide; raping a toddler; random acts of murder...but I highly suspect that you would argue that there's nothing inherently immoral about them.
I would certainly agree that all those things are bad, distasteful, and should not be permitted. But they're not "inherently immoral", because there is quite simply no such thing as "inherent morality". Right and wrong are not some inherent quality of the universe or some dictate handed down by a supernatural being - they're man-made abstractions for the things we've decided we do and don't like.
  #5025  
Old 07-15-2015, 01:32 PM
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.....Slavery had always been a byproduct of warfare in Africa (and, really, in the Ancient world period).....
(post shortened)

That sums it up, quite nicely.
  #5026  
Old 07-15-2015, 01:33 PM
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(post shortened)

That sums it up, quite nicely.
No, it fucking does not.
  #5027  
Old 07-15-2015, 01:38 PM
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(post shortened)

That sums it up, quite nicely.
What does it sum up? What is your point?
  #5028  
Old 07-15-2015, 01:42 PM
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I would certainly agree that all those things are bad, distasteful, and should not be permitted. But they're not "inherently immoral", because there is quite simply no such thing as "inherent morality". Right and wrong are not some inherent quality of the universe or some dictate handed down by a supernatural being - they're man-made abstractions for the things we've decided we do and don't like.
Do you believe that happiness is, by definition, better than suffering?
  #5029  
Old 07-15-2015, 01:45 PM
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Part 1 -
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Originally Posted by Bam Boo Gut View Post
Oh those crazy black people, if they hadn't got themselves all wrapped in chains and shipped across the Atlantic ... they've only themselves to blame.
Part 2 -
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Originally Posted by doorhinge View Post
Are you suggesting that groups of Africans, operating on the continent of Africa, raided African villages in order to capture fellow Africans, who were then to be used as slaves, and to be sold as slaves? That is cRaZy.
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??? What does this have to do with any part of this discussion?
Gosh, just how stupid are you? You just reminded me why I stopped reading, and responding, to your delusional ranting in the first place. Maybe, in your spare time, you could ask Bam Boo Gut the same question?

I was RESPONDING to Bam Boo Gut's post, but you have no way of knowing that.

Last edited by doorhinge; 07-15-2015 at 01:47 PM.
  #5030  
Old 07-15-2015, 01:47 PM
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Gosh, just how stupid are you? You just reminded me why I stopped reading, and responding, to your delusional ranting in the first place. Maybe, in your spare time, you could ask Bam Boo Gut the same question?
Bam Boo Gut was ridiculing the idea of blaming slaves for their own enslavement. Your next post was about Africans enslaving Africans, which had nothing to do with Bam Boo Gut's post (or any other part of this discussion).
  #5031  
Old 07-15-2015, 02:04 PM
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Do you believe that happiness is, by definition, better than suffering?
Yes I would, and I would also agree that a world in which all preventable suffering is minimized would be ideal which I assume is where this is leading. That doesn't mean, however, that the universe itself abhors suffering or that there is some moral imperative incumbent on all humans to minimize suffering. There are people out there who would likely take a different approach and argue that suffering is important to the human experience, or that suffering builds character and weeds out the weak, or that people should be expected to pull themselves out of bad situations without having to rely on society to do it for them. I disagree with those views, but I can't disprove them simply by stating my own opinion.
  #5032  
Old 07-15-2015, 02:14 PM
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It's remarkable to interact with someone who is not a neonate and who is totally devoid of any agency whatsoever. Any and all structure comes from without, but only in the immediate environment - external authority in any form (physical or coercive force or legal authority). Stunning when you think about it.
  #5033  
Old 07-15-2015, 02:27 PM
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Yes I would, and I would also agree that a world in which all preventable suffering is minimized would be ideal which I assume is where this is leading. That doesn't mean, however, that the universe itself abhors suffering or that there is some moral imperative incumbent on all humans to minimize suffering. There are people out there who would likely take a different approach and argue that suffering is important to the human experience, or that suffering builds character and weeds out the weak, or that people should be expected to pull themselves out of bad situations without having to rely on society to do it for them. I disagree with those views, but I can't disprove them simply by stating my own opinion.
Okay. I'm not going in quite the direction you anticipate, but thanks for elaborating. Here's my second question: Do you believe that happiness and suffering correspond to states in the brain which can, in principle at least, be quantified?
  #5034  
Old 07-15-2015, 04:02 PM
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So explain yourself! Same causes, different outcomes? What's your mechanism, idiot? At what point does some difference occur to explain differential outcome?
As I've said, there's something in black culture that is causing their young men to be vastly more violent than anyone else - that's the different cause, the different culture. I've suggested things to do with the culture that might cause it, to which you've unsurprisingly shouted "RACISM!!!" rather than actually discussing it.

Quote:
You can keep running away by crying "bad faith," but it's clear to everyone that this is just straight up evasion.
I'm not running away from anything, you're refusing to actually respond to what I write. For some reason...

Quote:
ETA besides which, your statement that black people are not unique in the US in their experience of discrimination and disadvantage is just fucking laughable and ignorant. Hell, this thread is a detailed accounting of just that.
Black people aren't even the people who've been discriminated against the worst in the US, at least in the last 150 years. No internment, no reservations, no destruction of entire nations of people. And yet, for some reason, the Japanese and the Native Americans aren't several times more violent than anybody else...
  #5035  
Old 07-15-2015, 04:14 PM
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Black people aren't even the people who've been discriminated against the worst in the US, at least in the last 150 years. No internment, no reservations, no destruction of entire nations of people. And yet, for some reason, the Japanese and the Native Americans aren't several times more violent than anybody else...
This is an astoundingly false assertion when the entire 150 years (or prior decades) are considered.
  #5036  
Old 07-15-2015, 04:33 PM
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Black people aren't even the people who've been discriminated against the worst in the US, at least in the last 150 years. No internment, no reservations, no destruction of entire nations of people.
Over 3,400 African-Americans have been lynched in the last 150 years. I forget, how many Japanese and Native Americans were lynched in that time?
  #5037  
Old 07-15-2015, 04:42 PM
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As I've said, there's something in black culture that is causing their young men to be vastly more violent than anyone else - that's the different cause, the different culture.
You know what'd help? If you preface statements like that with "I'm not a racist but". And then maybe follow it with a "some of my best friends are black"

That way no matter how sweeping a statement you care to make about incidents of violence being due to black culture (rather than socio-economic factors or historical issues) people wouldn't mistakenly conclude you're a racist fuck.
  #5038  
Old 07-15-2015, 06:04 PM
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You know what'd help? If you preface statements like that with "I'm not a racist but". And then maybe follow it with a "some of my best friends are black"

That way no matter how sweeping a statement you care to make about incidents of violence being due to black culture (rather than socio-economic factors or historical issues) people wouldn't mistakenly conclude you're a racist fuck.
Obviously you have no idea what racism is, then. Historical issues or socioeconomic issues aren't unique to black people, the young, violent men are. You know why the problem won't be solved? Because even talking about it gets idiots like you screaming "RACISM!!!" rather than actually trying to find out what's happening.

It's like you want to keep a dangerous, destructive culture that kills thousands of people, and harms many many more, because you're too scared to think about it. And yet I bet you'd be the first to condemn other dangerous (or seemingly dangerous) cultures, such as US gun culture, or fundamentalist religion...

I imagine you mistake commenting on the effect of the culture for blaming members of it in general. It isn't, the only people who deserve blame are the ones committing the violent acts - but if we want to stop it, we need to understand why. Kneejerk, thoughtless liberalism won't achieve that.
  #5039  
Old 07-15-2015, 06:09 PM
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Over 3,400 African-Americans have been lynched in the last 150 years. I forget, how many Japanese and Native Americans were lynched in that time?
There were times when that many Native Americans were killed on a weekly basis. Yes, there are problems with young Native men being violent or otherwise criminal, that would be a good baseline for the effect of poverty and bigotry. And yet young black men, despite being treated better, are far more violent.

Unless you're going to contend that the lynching of that many people is somehow worse than the attempted eradication of entire civilisations - an actual series of attempted genocides - in which case, I'd have to conclude you're either insane or literally retarded.
  #5040  
Old 07-15-2015, 06:11 PM
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Obviously you have no idea what racism is, then. Historical issues or socioeconomic issues aren't unique to black people, the young, violent men are.
There are no young, violent white men? Latinos? Asians? Why are all those police departments wasting money fighting gangs?

Calling you an idiot is an insult to idiots.
  #5041  
Old 07-15-2015, 06:22 PM
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Here's my second question: Do you believe that happiness and suffering correspond to states in the brain which can, in principle at least, be quantified?
I'm not a neurologist and I cannot speak confidently or authoritatively on this subject. It is my understanding that human emotions originate in the brain and are in all likelihood associated with a specific electrochemical state which one's body translates or executes as the physical and psychological feelings we associate with that emotion. It is possible that in the future our understanding of how the brain works will evolve to the point that we can identify the specific electrochemical state which induces happiness or suffering, but as far as I know we have not yet reached that point.
  #5042  
Old 07-15-2015, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Fear Itself View Post
There are no young, violent white men? Latinos? Asians? Why are all those police departments wasting money fighting gangs?
Young black men commit vastly more violent crime than any other group. Including whites, Latinos, old black men, and so on.

Quote:
Calling you an idiot is an insult to idiots.
No, it just shows you're incapable of following an argument. Whether you admit it or not, it's an uncontroversial fact that young black men in the US are vastly more violent than anyone else. Your dislike of that fact, and refusal to talk about it, says nothing except that you're a moron.
  #5043  
Old 07-15-2015, 06:32 PM
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This is an astoundingly false assertion when the entire 150 years (or prior decades) are considered.
So, when have black people been interned based solely on their ancestry? When have they been moved to reservations? When have their been attempted (and sometimes successful) genocides of them?
  #5044  
Old 07-15-2015, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by JVDaly View Post
I don't think I've ever encountered such an extreme proponent of authoritarianism. I've talked to people who proudly self-identify as honest-to-God fascists and even they wouldn't go as far as he does. Incredible...
I am a liberal. I believe strongly in the principle that a person should have the right to live their life as they desire so long as their doing so does not actively harm another person without their consent.

This is a position which, historically speaking, is an aberration, and it is one which can only exist in the presence of a government which is strong enough to command obedience of its laws upon people who insist that those laws are wrong and that they therefore have the moral authority to disobey them. When governments are weak and powerless to stop dissenters, the people who suffer most are invariably those whom a strong government would be better able to protect - ethnic and religious minorities, women, non-heterosexual-cisgender people, the mentally ill, and so on. These people need the protection of a greater power, both directly and indirectly, because it is also only through the existence of a stable and powerful government that intellectualism and tolerance can thrive.

I recognize that strong governments can also be wrong, and that the same power that serves to liberate can also be used to enslave. I oppose the unlawful resistance of bad government, in spite of this, because I recognize that my beliefs are in no way objective, and I can not possibly prove to someone whose views are opposed to mine that they are scientifically wrong and I am scientifically right. Therefore, if I assert that I have the right to disobey a government because it has enacted laws that I believe are wrong, then it follows that people who I believe are wrong have the right to disobey a government I believe is right. And down that path lies nothing but the incessant civil war, anarchy, and strife which plagues much of the Third World to this day, the end result of which is that everybody, whether or not I believe they're right or wrong, is worse off.
  #5045  
Old 07-15-2015, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JVDaly View Post
I'd just like to say Smapti's worldview is absolutely fascinating. Abhorrent, obviously, but still, fascinating. I don't think I've ever encountered such an extreme proponent of authoritarianism.
I have, on this board. The poster called Omg a Black Conservative is (or at least was - it's been a while since I've seen him discussing the issue) as determinedly anti-abortion as Smapti is pro-cop, as just as willing to brinkman away all civil rights to that end.
  #5046  
Old 07-15-2015, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JVDaly View Post
I'd just like to say Smapti's worldview is absolutely fascinating. Abhorrent, obviously, but still, fascinating. I don't think I've ever encountered such an extreme proponent of authoritarianism. I've talked to people who proudly self-identify as honest-to-God fascists and even they wouldn't go as far as he does. Incredible...
There's lots of people like that. How do you think they staffed Auschwitz? Those weren't run by robots; they were run by people like Smapti.

There's a lot of folks whose worldview is simply "Authority is right because it's right." Smapti is, if anything, just honest and unfiltered about it; there's other folks I know, and folks right here on the SDMB, who are pretty much the same but know enough to not quite come out and say it as frankly as Smapti does.
  #5047  
Old 07-15-2015, 08:14 PM
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And to what extent are young black men actually more violent, as opposed to being more likely to be arrested (and added to the statistics) when they are, where non-blacks would get a warning or never have the cops called on them in the first place?
  #5048  
Old 07-15-2015, 08:26 PM
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And to what extent are young black men actually more violent, as opposed to being more likely to be arrested (and added to the statistics) when they are, where non-blacks would get a warning or never have the cops called on them in the first place?
Differential minotrity contact doesn't explain disparities in violent behavior. Indicators of socioeconomic disadvantage do. Even accounting for SES, the judicial system disportionately arrests, sentences and incarcerates African Americans.
  #5049  
Old 07-15-2015, 08:29 PM
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So, when have black people been interned based solely on their ancestry? When have they been moved to reservations? When have their been attempted (and sometimes successful) genocides of them?
Throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, you astonishing half-wit.

Also: Shorter Steophan: I'm not racist, there's just something about black culture that makes black men more violent.

(Maybe if he said it out loud to himself, he would be able to hear it.)
  #5050  
Old 07-15-2015, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
I am a liberal.
Fucking liar.
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