Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #401  
Old 01-20-2018, 05:49 PM
raventhief raventhief is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,068
Yeah this whole " beards are manly? I had no idea!" thing makes me think he's just messing with us.
  #402  
Old 01-20-2018, 06:12 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 51,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by raventhief View Post
Yeah this whole " beards are manly? I had no idea!" thing makes me think he's just messing with us.
Or else he gets his fashion tips from People of Walmart.
__________________
Itís not you, itís your sports team.
  #403  
Old 01-20-2018, 08:26 PM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 7,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by raventhief View Post
Yeah this whole " beards are manly? I had no idea!" thing makes me think he's just messing with us.
Naaah, beards aren't manly--beards are "male personly."
  #404  
Old 01-20-2018, 09:14 PM
AHunter3 AHunter3 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: NY (Manhattan) NY USA
Posts: 19,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by brainstall View Post
Well, then why the need to label yourself as a male girl? What girlish things do you embrace? The bitchy, sneaky, shallow, vain, back-stabbing, helpless, dependent, weak, overly-emotional, manipulative archetype? Or the warrior princess? Are you kind, gentle, sensitive, nurturing, yet strong? Do you like pretty things? Girl encompasses a lot, do you just pick and choose some qualities and decide those are 'girl' and that's who you are?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
Yes, I'd like an answer on this too. Do you prefer pink things as to blue things? Did you like playing Barbies rather than with G.I. Joes? Give us some concrete examples.
Start with the OP of this thread and consider it to be rather central.

I can tell you that there were other things, prior things, things that I had become aware of as far back as 3rd grade, but the truth is that none of those other things changed my attitude that "it doesn't matter, so what if I'm a boy who is more like girls in this way (and that way etc) than I resemble other boys, it's OK for a boy to be more like girls than he is like other boys".

Dating and sex dynamics made it messy and complicated and made other people's attitudes and opinions relevant in a way they had not been previously.
  #405  
Old 01-20-2018, 09:16 PM
AHunter3 AHunter3 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: NY (Manhattan) NY USA
Posts: 19,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennshark View Post
Neuroscience shows that our brains don't really gel until the early 20s. My thinking/impulses/character are very different 30-years on, and in some aspects radically so. In fact, I'm different in a lot of ways from when I was forty.

I'm curious if you've experienced a similar path.
It's probably partly illusory (some evidence suggests a huge part of our "memories" are somewhat illusory) but I seem to be the same me that I was when I was 5. Things have happened since then but the "core me" is still me.
  #406  
Old 01-21-2018, 03:33 AM
Penfeather Penfeather is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennshark View Post
In other avenues of life I mostly wear guy clothes; at this moment the only "girl thing" I'm wearing is underwear.
Talk about coincidence.
  #407  
Old 01-21-2018, 06:06 AM
Ramira Ramira is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHunter3 View Post
Start with the OP of this thread and consider it to be rather central.
everyone has told you the OP is tedious, and opaque...

the comportment you present, it seems to me you want to create the role of an instructor for yourself - lecturing - and you are stuck in a vision of the gender stereotypes of your specific youth and in the intellectual frameworks of the 1980s literary theory and the similar and that very sterile and tedious obfuscational form of writing that was - maybe still is in their small circles - preferred. (the term paper writing as someone said a little above)

it is not a discourse or an approach that is going to have a wide audience or a wide success as the threads here keep showing.

The response quoted above, it is the response of a professor to the student.

You are not the professor to any reader here and the professor voice, it is not going to be convincing or seductive...

Unuseful to bother telling you as your ears are closed, but voila, this is the truth as demonstrated in your demarches so far.
  #408  
Old 01-21-2018, 06:25 AM
AHunter3 AHunter3 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: NY (Manhattan) NY USA
Posts: 19,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramira View Post
everyone has told you the OP is tedious, and opaque...
That's not really true. Several people on this board have told me that, true enough, but I had someone tell me something entirely different after reading the same post: that reading it helped make concrete some tings they had been feeling and thinking more vaguely for a long time, and that readint this helped them clarify some thoughts and gave them hope.


Quote:
The response quoted above, it is the response of a professor to the student.

You are not the professor to any reader here and the professor voice, it is not going to be convincing or seductive...
No one's keeping you here. Add/drop privileges have been extended indefinitely.
  #409  
Old 01-21-2018, 07:36 AM
AHunter3 AHunter3 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: NY (Manhattan) NY USA
Posts: 19,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by brainstall View Post
Well, then why the need to label yourself as a male girl? What girlish things do you embrace? The bitchy, sneaky, shallow, vain, back-stabbing, helpless, dependent, weak, overly-emotional, manipulative archetype? Or the warrior princess? Are you kind, gentle, sensitive, nurturing, yet strong? Do you like pretty things? Girl encompasses a lot, do you just pick and choose some qualities and decide those are 'girl' and that's who you are?

Dear brainstall:

This question has been asked before, and I forgot you weren't a participant at the time. In this thread from October 2017, an earlier blog post, people kept after me to post "specifics". I didn't want to do that because any individual characteristic that I might mention would yeild some male respondends saying "I have that characteristic, are you saying that I'm not a 'real man', are you saying that I, too, need to identify as a 'male girl'?", and would invariably also yield some female people replying that "Excuse me but that characteristic doesn't apply to me, so are you saying I'm not a 'real woman'?"

And I didn't want to create a "litmus test" quiz for whether a person is or is not "feminine" because it wasn't any characteristic or set of characteristics that I had that made me say "Ooh, if I am like that, that 'makes me feminine', so I guess I'm a girl".

People identify for reasons they themselves may not be fully aware of. And they don't usually do it by making a list like that. It's both more overall-holistic and less deductive-logic than that. It's a sense of "these are the people who are like me". In the transgender community, it is accepted that your gender identity is what you say it is. People aren't asked for femininity-credentials.

When I did finally yield to the repeated and insistent requests to provide some specifics, in this post, people did exactly what I was afraid they were going to do and interpreted it as meaning that I was saying it was a checklist and that anyone who answered "yes that describes me" was feminine whether they thought of themselves as feminine or not and anyone sho answered "that doesn't seem to describe me at all" was not feminine even if they were female people who had never questioned their identity as woman or girl.

People said it proved I had an unduly rigid notion of gender, because I obviously thought this checklist of characteristics "made me a girl" and wasnt savvy to the notion that I could be like this and still be a man or boy, and that that was my problem, that I had internalized a really inflexible concept of how you have to be in order to be a man, and that I believed that my "yes" to these checklist items meant I wasn't a man and was a woman or girl instead.

And, as anticipated, people raised their hands and said "Well I don't match that description at all and I am a woman. Or I thought I was. Gee, I guess I'm really a man or something, ha ha" and "Well, yeesh, your answers sound a lot like me, why do you think this makes you different and special, I'm male and all this is true for me, but I don't go around telling people I'm a 'male girl'."

When you asked the question in this thread, I directed your attention to the OP of this thread. I said the characteristics described there are more important than most other things because the ones described there "make a difference" — that unlike, say, tending to sit with my legs crossed and being told by other boys that I sit like a girl, which I could reply to by saying "yeah, so?" and dismissing it, the world of courting and flirting and dating specifically means needing something from other people, and being put in a position where not meeting expectations had important negative consequences.

Last edited by AHunter3; 01-21-2018 at 07:40 AM.
  #410  
Old 01-21-2018, 07:55 AM
you with the face you with the face is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 11,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHunter3 View Post
That's not really true. Several people on this board have told me that, true enough, but I had someone tell me something entirely different after reading the same post: that reading it helped make concrete some tings they had been feeling and thinking more vaguely for a long time, and that readint this helped them clarify some thoughts and gave them hope.
There was nothing concrete in your advice about flirting, though. So itís a mystery why this person would use that word. As I pointed out earlier, there is not even an attempt to explain how to initiate conversation, which is the biggest hurdle in connecting with someone. And what does the femme guy do if the woman isnít doing anything that he can ďmirrorĒ? Your advice presumes women are all going to be receptive to and sending out the same kind of signals. If sheís special enough to be drawn to a femme man, sheís isnít going to be easily reducible to feminine stereotypes, but your writing does not indicate a consideration of this.

If the person who gave you that positive feedback is not a very astute or experienced person, they likely lack the frame of reference to critique your ideas. Which is really why you should be careful putting it on equal plane with people (like women) that do have that frame of reference.
  #411  
Old 01-21-2018, 10:40 AM
Ramira Ramira is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,319
He wants to engage in his professor fantasy lecturing...

it is entertaining to read the responses at least. Like entertainment of reading the commentary on the bad movie.
  #412  
Old 01-21-2018, 10:46 AM
wonky wonky is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: DC area
Posts: 30,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHunter3 View Post
That's not really true. Several people on this board have told me that, true enough, but I had someone tell me something entirely different after reading the same post: that reading it helped make concrete some tings they had been feeling and thinking more vaguely for a long time, and that readint this helped them clarify some thoughts and gave them hope.
Ah, my favorite internet gambit: the invisible supporter.
  #413  
Old 01-21-2018, 11:31 AM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 51,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by AHunter3 View Post
Start with the OP of this thread and consider it to be rather central.
Quite frankly, like most of your writing, it was basically a bunch of pseudo-intellectual jargon.
Maybe you're better off just keeping a diary. I mean, you obviously love to psycho-analyze the shit out of this stuff, but it seems it's more for your own personal benefit, not for anyone else's.


And I can't imagine being the same person as when I was five. I'm not even the same person I was when I was twenty-five. And I don't WANT to be.
__________________
Itís not you, itís your sports team.
  #414  
Old 01-21-2018, 12:24 PM
monstro monstro is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 19,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
Quite frankly, like most of your writing, it was basically a bunch of pseudo-intellectual jargon.
Maybe you're better off just keeping a diary. I mean, you obviously love to psycho-analyze the shit out of this stuff, but it seems it's more for your own personal benefit, not for anyone else's.


And I can't imagine being the same person as when I was five. I'm not even the same person I was when I was twenty-five. And I don't WANT to be.
And I don't think anyone wants to listen to a lecture from someone who is stuck with a five-year-old's self-concept and perceptions. Especially in the context of gender and sex.
  #415  
Old 01-21-2018, 03:30 PM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 7,232
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonky View Post
Ah, my favorite internet gambit: the invisible supporter.
The lurkers support me in email!
  #416  
Old 01-21-2018, 03:50 PM
Pantastic Pantastic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,382
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstro View Post
And I don't think anyone wants to listen to a lecture from someone who is stuck with a five-year-old's self-concept and perceptions. Especially in the context of gender and sex.
This thread just keeps on giving.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:41 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017