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Old 02-14-2018, 03:49 PM
RickJay RickJay is offline
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It would be interesting to look into the history of contract incentives like that to see how often a player juuuust comes up short of the required appearances due to some managerial wrangling.

Hanley isn't getting 497 plate appearances this year unless he hits like Babe Ruth.
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  #402  
Old 02-14-2018, 04:28 PM
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It would be interesting to look into the history of contract incentives like that to see how often a player juuuust comes up short of the required appearances due to some managerial wrangling.

Hanley isn't getting 497 plate appearances this year unless he hits like Babe Ruth.
Has the Players Association ever filed a labor grievance against a team or manager, alleging chicanery of that fashion? I can't remember hearing of any, but it seems like something nearly impossible to resist, especially towards the end of the season.

Would it even be against their collective bargaining agreement?
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:26 PM
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It strikes me as comparable to the mini-controversy that ensued when Chicago had Kris Bryant start his rookie season in the minors for the first 19 days or so, so that his major league service clock would give the Cubs one additional year of control over him.
  #404  
Old 02-16-2018, 07:12 AM
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Did anything come of the Kris Bryant grievance?

Can anyone think of an instance where a team obviously limited someone's playing time to avoid an option year kicking in?

It would be interesting if Hanley Ramirez hit like Barry Bonds all year, but then was suddenly benched for all of September with 495 plate appearances. Of course it wouldn't happen in Boston because they are geared towards winning. I could see it happening in Miami, though.
  #405  
Old 02-16-2018, 08:16 AM
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In AL East news:

Jaime Garcia to the Blue Jays.

Eduardo Nunez close to a deal with the Red Sox.

Andrew Cashner signs with Baltimore.
  #406  
Old 02-16-2018, 08:25 AM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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It strikes me as comparable to the mini-controversy that ensued when Chicago had Kris Bryant start his rookie season in the minors for the first 19 days or so, so that his major league service clock would give the Cubs one additional year of control over him.
That's common. The Rays did it to Evan Longoria too.
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Old 02-16-2018, 01:43 PM
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Teams playing with the pesky details of the CBA is... well, what the hell are the players complaining about? They agreed to the conditions.

I'm not a guy who begrudged athletes their big bucks. They earn it. But to complain about things like the Bryant callup, or teams avoiding the appearances clause in options, is just spoiled insanity. The reason teams do that is because players are paid so well. The fact that teams are putting more and more effort into manipulating the roster rules in this manner is a direct product of how incredibly wealthy the players are getting. The Cubs held Bryant back because they knew that would save them millions and millions of dollars in a future season. If it was a difference of fifty thousand bucks or something it wouldn't have crossed their minds; when it's maybe a difference of eight million bucks, yeah, you're going to play the CBA game. It would be fiscally irresponsible not to.
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  #408  
Old 02-16-2018, 02:58 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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Any GM worth his salt is perfectly capable of telling an arbitrator "We didn't think the kid was ready on Opening Day, but he was three weeks later." All part of the fun of labor relations.

That's got me wondering if Rafael Devers needs a little tuneup in Pawtucket at the start of the year.
  #409  
Old 02-16-2018, 05:19 PM
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Yep, on the same note, everyone is expected Gleyber Torres to spend about 3 weeks in AAA before he takes over 2b for the Yanks.
  #410  
Old 02-16-2018, 07:03 PM
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I recall when Coco Crisp came to the Indians late in the 2016, he was told he woudln't get enough additional playing time for an option to vest (or perhaps it was get a bonus). I'm pretty sure they were upfront about it, though it might just have been the TV announcers talking. I do think that's a bit different though. He wasn't likely to get it where he was either.
  #411  
Old 02-16-2018, 08:35 PM
Tom Scud Tom Scud is offline
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It will be interesting to see if the Astros deal Collin McHugh - he frankly seems to have a lot more value as some other team's fourth starter than he does as a middle reliever/second emergency starter option for the Stros.
  #412  
Old 02-17-2018, 09:40 AM
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Look out, other teams: the Mets' Matt Harvey still has "a lot left in the tank".

"As a new manager, (Mickey) Callaway has emphasized a focus on the process instead of the results, and building a nurturing environment in which Harvey can thrive."

He may go 5-10 with a 6.30 ERA, but he'll be adequately nurtured.
  #413  
Old 02-17-2018, 12:16 PM
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I imagine they'd trade Harvey but no one would take him.
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  #414  
Old 02-17-2018, 12:43 PM
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I imagine they'd trade Harvey but no one would take him.
Contract: 1 yr/$5.63M, they could trade him, they wouldn't get a lot for him, but they could trade him. I can promise they could get Ellsbury and at least $42 million and a non-top 100 prospect.
  #415  
Old 02-17-2018, 11:04 PM
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Cron to TB for a PTBNL
Odorozzi to Min for a scrub 20 yr old SS
Hosmer to SD

An orgy of activity
  #416  
Old 02-17-2018, 11:06 PM
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What a dreadful decision by San Diego.
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  #417  
Old 02-18-2018, 09:11 AM
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What a dreadful decision by San Diego.
Hosmer is only 28 this season. It is an 8 year contract, front loaded for only $144 or a tax hit of $18 per year. He does have an opt out after 5. So he will be weighing his value for age 33+ in opting out vs the remaining guaranteed 3 years at around $13m per year is what I am reading. I don't think this is so bad.

He has missed very little time in his career, will probably remain a 20+ homer guy for most of the contract with a legit chance of picking up a little more pop as he is now hitting his prime.

So what is dreadful about this deal? I know I'm missing something, but it looks solid too me.
  #418  
Old 02-18-2018, 09:27 AM
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Odorozzi to Min for a scrub 20 yr old SS
I think the Twins got rotation help for a steal unless there is something negative about Odorozzi we don't know.

Looks like Boston is only paying Nunez $4m this year with a player option for $4m next year. This puts them $12.28m over the tax limit of $197m and as it is the $20m there are additional penalties. I would guess JD Martinez is not in really in their plan for this year. But as they didn't pay in 2017 they might push it.

* Figures include the average annual values of contracts for players on the 40-man roster, plus about $14M per club for health and pension benefits.
* Tax Thresholds: Tax is assessed on amount above $195M in 2017, $197M in 2018, $206M in 2019, $208M in 2020, and $210M in 2021.
* Tax Rate: 20% for first-time payors, 30% for second-time payors, 50% for payors for three or more times. Surtax for payroll exceeding threshold by $20M, $40M
* The $20m threshold is an extra 12% and the $40m is +42.5% for 1st time, +45% for 2nd or more.

http://www.mlbplayers.com/ViewArticl...CLID=211336404
  #419  
Old 02-18-2018, 10:40 AM
RickJay RickJay is offline
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Hosmer is only 28 this season. It is an 8 year contract, front loaded for only $144 or a tax hit of $18 per year. He does have an opt out after 5. So he will be weighing his value for age 33+ in opting out vs the remaining guaranteed 3 years at around $13m per year is what I am reading. I don't think this is so bad.

He has missed very little time in his career, will probably remain a 20+ homer guy for most of the contract with a legit chance of picking up a little more pop as he is now hitting his prime.

So what is dreadful about this deal? I know I'm missing something, but it looks solid too me.
First of all, I would guess in any given season Hosmer's chances of hitting 20 home runs aren't even fifty-fifty per year over the course of this contract. He's done that twice in his seven-year career. and while they were the last two years,

1. Petco Park is a terrible park to hit home runs in, and
2. It seems really obvious to me that 2017 was about eighty percent likely to be Hosmer's best year.

San Diego is paying a big, heavy first baseman $144 million for having his career year with another team. Look at his career numbers; he is NOT an elite hitter. 2017 was his best season by far and it wasn't exactly Jason Giambi.

If Hosmer keeps having 2017 over and over again for awhile, sure, they got their money's worth at that point, but I am not at all optimistic that'll happen.
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Last edited by RickJay; 02-18-2018 at 10:41 AM.
  #420  
Old 02-18-2018, 10:46 AM
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First of all, I would guess in any given season Hosmer's chances of hitting 20 home runs aren't even fifty-fifty per year over the course of this contract. He's done that twice in his seven-year career. and while they were the last two years,

1. Petco Park is a terrible park to hit home runs in, and
2. It seems really obvious to me that 2017 was about eighty percent likely to be Hosmer's best year.

San Diego is paying a big, heavy first baseman $144 million for having his career year with another team. Look at his career numbers; he is NOT an elite hitter. 2017 was his best season by far and it wasn't exactly Jason Giambi.

If Hosmer keeps having 2017 over and over again for awhile, sure, they got their money's worth at that point, but I am not at all optimistic that'll happen.
The fact this is his age 28 year, gives me hope he can continue his home run number. This is typically when players like Hosmer (1b/DH) come into their prime as hitters. In the meantime is glove is solid for first base, probably a little above average so he seems like a solid get for the money.

Not that I care that much in the end, few teams concern me less than San Diego. It just seems like a solid enough deal as he is young enough with a good health record. 8 years deals are almost always crazy, but this one is front loaded at least.
  #421  
Old 02-18-2018, 12:37 PM
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The Hosmer deal isn't terrible, but he would have been better off in KC. He's a below average defender and his defensive numbers are trending down. A slow transition to DH would have been the better option for him.
  #422  
Old 02-18-2018, 01:26 PM
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On the Hot Stove Stupidity front, Mets GM Sandy Alderson says he thinks Tim Tebow will play in the major leagues*, and Tebow has been invited to Mets spring training again.

This makes me think that the best hope the Mets have of seriously competing at a major league level is to demote Alderson to running the Class A Columbia Fireflies.

*He may be capable of hitting .160 in a part-time publicity stunt role.
  #423  
Old 02-18-2018, 01:46 PM
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Just to get the numbers out there, Tebow is now 30. Last year he batted .226 in the low minors with 8 home runs and 2 stolen bases. He was the worst defensive outfielder in organized professional baseball.

Wonderful prospect, that.
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  #424  
Old 02-18-2018, 04:05 PM
Ulf the Unwashed Ulf the Unwashed is offline
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Oh, to be a fan of a team in the Mets' division.

Bring him up and keep him up and give him plenty of playing time, say all the Nationals and Braves and Phillies fans out there...
  #425  
Old 02-18-2018, 04:22 PM
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Oh, to be a fan of a team in the Mets' division.

Bring him up and keep him up and give him plenty of playing time, say all the Nationals and Braves and Phillies fans out there...
I like how you left the Marlins out. Its like they have bigger issues then trying to embarrass themselves.

The Mets have had a nice off-season, it looked like they did a fair job improving the team. Then Sandy Alderson has to spew the Tebow stupidity.

I know it looks weird for a Yankee diehard to hope things work out for the Mets, but I like it when both teams are good as long as the Yanks are better.

But when Tebow or owner stupidity is involved it is hard to root for them.
  #426  
Old 02-19-2018, 09:13 AM
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1. Petco Park is a terrible park to hit home runs in, and
2. It seems really obvious to me that 2017 was about eighty percent likely to be Hosmer's best year.
Petco is only slightly worse than Kauffman is. Last year, they ranked #29 and #27 in Park Factor for HRs.

But generally, I absolutely agree. I'm a Royals fan, and love Hosmer - he provided some amazing moments and memories the last 4-5 years watching him. But he's just not that impressive of a hitter, and his defense has been on a big decline the last few years. I wouldn't go so far as describing him as a "big, heavy first baseman", but I would say he's not worth $20 million a year. I'm sad to see him go, and it looks like the Royals have a big hole to fill at 1B, but I'm also really glad that we're not pouring money into that contract.

I'll certainly be keeping an eye on the Padres, though - it'll be fun to finally see Hosmer and Wil Myers play in the same lineup.
  #427  
Old 02-19-2018, 04:52 PM
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JD Rodriguez to the Bosox for $110/5 years

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/m...ear-110m-deal/
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  #428  
Old 02-19-2018, 05:49 PM
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JD Rodriguez to the Bosox for $110/5 years

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/m...ear-110m-deal/
Martinez and Woot! It will be a fun year. Yanks and Bosox slugging it out but long term the Red Sox probably just hamstrung themselves.
  #429  
Old 02-19-2018, 10:36 PM
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5 years is not super long; I suspect Martinez wanted 7 and that was probably the hold-up. You have to figure that these kinds of contracts aren't really going to be worth it in the last year or two in a vacuum.
  #430  
Old 02-20-2018, 07:32 AM
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He gets an opt-out after 2 years. Maybe that was the kicker that finally let Boras let him sign without looking like he caved.

Anyway, my team is now better and I'm happier.
  #431  
Old 02-20-2018, 08:51 AM
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Whatever the wisdom of the term, it makes Boston a better team in 2018, assuming they don't now do something really stupid to make room. Martinez directly fixed Boston's single greatest team weakness from 2017.

If they do the smart thing and find a way to get rid of Hanley, they're much better.
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  #432  
Old 02-20-2018, 09:31 AM
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Man, look at that payroll. It's like Boston just buys championships.
  #433  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:26 AM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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5 years is not super long; I suspect Martinez wanted 7 and that was probably the hold-up. You have to figure that these kinds of contracts aren't really going to be worth it in the last year or two in a vacuum.
This kind of deal makes reasonable sense for both sides. Martinez can hope he has two super years, then opt out of the deal and get someone else to make him a more attractive offer or front-load another (relatively short-term) contract. The Red Sox don't pay as much toward the end of the deal when Martinez' output is probably declining.

If only MLB had approved a pitch clock we could look forward to relatively exciting Red Sox-Yankees games. At least there won't be unlimited trips to the mound during "tense" situations.
  #434  
Old 02-20-2018, 10:30 AM
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If they do the smart thing and find a way to get rid of Hanley, they're much better.
Hanley says his shoulder surgery over the winter went well ("I was hitting with one arm last year") and he's going to be a much better hitter this year. Okay, great. Everybody feels fine in spring.
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:04 AM
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  #436  
Old 02-20-2018, 11:14 AM
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Martinez and Woot! It will be a fun year. Yanks and Bosox slugging it out but long term the Red Sox probably just hamstrung themselves.
I was more concerned that he'd hurt his arm signing the contract or cashing a check (unless Boras allowed the Sox to set him up for Direct Deposit), but now you have me worrying about his hamstring, too.
  #437  
Old 02-20-2018, 01:36 PM
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Hanley says his shoulder surgery over the winter went well ("I was hitting with one arm last year")
Someone should ask him how many arms he was hitting with in 2015.
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  #438  
Old 02-20-2018, 06:33 PM
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Tampa Bay sends Steven Souza to Arizona in a three-team deal.

Yankees get Brandon Drury from Arizona, and per MLB.com's Bryan Hoch, the Yankees will be sending prospects Nick Solak and Taylor Widener to the Rays and Diamondbacks, respectively


https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/r...-with-yankees/
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Last edited by Superdude; 02-20-2018 at 06:33 PM.
  #439  
Old 02-20-2018, 06:38 PM
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Tampa Bay sends Steven Souza to Arizona in a three-team deal.

Yankees get Brandon Drury from Arizona, and per MLB.com's Bryan Hoch, the Yankees will be sending prospects Nick Solak and Taylor Widener to the Rays and Diamondbacks, respectively


https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/r...-with-yankees/
It looks like a good pick up for the Yanks, Drury can play 2B, 3B and corner OF. He has some pop. With rookies the front running for 2B & 3B this is good insurance. Solak is a good hitting 2B prospect but not a very good fielder thus far. I honestly know nothing about Widener, a Righty starting pitcher for high A Tampa Yanks last year.
Forgot to mention; Drury is also Pre-Arb.

Last edited by What Exit?; 02-20-2018 at 06:41 PM.
  #440  
Old 02-23-2018, 07:58 PM
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Baseball is back, I just watched the Tigers @ Yanks. Is it time to bank the fire and start a spring training thread?
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