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Old 02-16-2019, 09:13 AM
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A list of way Trump is helping Russia, et al.


It appears, to me, anyway, that Trump's actions benefit countries that are our adversaries. In my opinion, his administration is a total Charlie-Foxtrot. But let's forget our biases and focus on data. I'm having trouble keeping track of everything. Is there a list available that shows how Russia, and other adversarial states, benefit by Trump's actions? For example, pulling out of Syria allows Russia and Iran to expand their influence in the country and the region.

Again, I'm not looking for a debate. I'm looking for things Trump has done that do, factually, benefit Russia, North Korea, Iran, et al., with little or no (or negative) benefit to the United States.
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Old 02-16-2019, 09:41 AM
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Trump's rhetoric toward Putin, in and of itself, benefits Putin in several ways. (One could argue that that doesn't benefit Russia itself, but that's a different issue.) Even if Mueller doesn't uncover other definite, incontrovertible evidence of ways in which Trump serves Russia, Trump has already bolstered Putin's patina of legitimacy domestically, simply by how he talks.
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Old 02-16-2019, 10:34 AM
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  • Lifting of Russian sanctions. This has been the number one goal of Putin's ever since they invaded Crimea and murdered Sergei Magnitsky.

  • Diminishing the influence of NATO, by threatening to pull us out of the alliance that has kept the US and other members safe for 70 years.

  • Constant undermining of the United Nations. This weakens the body the world uses to settle disputes and sanction bad actors.

  • Driving wedges between us and traditional allies such as Britain, Canada, Mexico and France.

  • Fomenting extreme discord in our own populace, which keeps us distracted from true concerns that threaten our position on the global stage and our national security.

  • Opening up the Arctic to oil drilling. This is a joint interest between the likes of Rex Tillerson and Russians. The Russians need money. Selling oil is their quickest way to get it.

  • Tariffs. This has weakened America in the global market, particularly with China. A stronger China and a weaker America benefits Russia.

  • Pulling out of the INF Treaty. Russia was already violating the treaty, but by pulling out of it instead of utilizing sanctions to force compliance, Trump enables Russia to continue its violations without consequence.

  • OP already pointed out Trump's trying to pull us out of Syria, which is another biggie. Russia has had its eye on those warm water ports to export its oil and other goods for a long, long time.

These are just off the top of my head. I know there are others but I'm hustling to get out the door this morning.

As I heard someone say, If Trump isn't a Russian asset... how could you tell? Literally all his big moves have benefited Russia and not advanced US interests.
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:37 AM
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The only change that Team Trump requested to the draft 2016 Republican platform was to water down the commitment to aid UKraine, including reducing the likelihood of selling weapons to Ukraine. That benefitted Russia.

Usually the successful nominee wants all sorts of changes to the draft platform, to put his/her own stamp on the party.

Trump was good with everything except a commitment to aid Ukraine.
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:13 PM
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I thought of another one.

Keeping the contents of his meetings with Putin a secret. It puts our national security at risk by keeping the information from our own agencies, and allows Russia to say whatever they want about what occurred. It also creates leverage against the occupant of the Oval Office, because Russians know what Americans don't. Official note takers protect the record and ensure our agencies understand our foreign policy goals. Trump doesn't want that.

Oh, and...

Inviting Russians into the Oval Office itself. No other American president would have done that. I wonder how many bugs were planted that day.

Also...

Excluding the American press at meetings between Putin and Trump. We learn everything from the state-controlled Russian press. Trump's undermining of the American press in general is an attack on our form of government, which of course enshrines the freedom of the press in its very first Amendment to the Constitution. This also benefits Russia.

Last edited by Aspenglow; 02-16-2019 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:21 PM
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Sorry, I won't be able to leave this thread alone and missed the edit window.

Trump's DHS just gutted the two task forces assembled to fight foreign interference in our elections. (Daily Beast) I wonder who might benefit from that move.
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:51 PM
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Summary, using (mostly) direct quotes:

Trump Helping Enemies

If Trump isn't a Russian asset, how could you tell? Literally all his big moves have benefited Russia and not advanced US interests.
  • Lifting of Russian sanctions. This has been the number one goal of Putin's ever since they invaded Crimea and murdered Sergei Magnitsky.
  • Diminishing the influence of NATO, by threatening to pull us out of the alliance that has kept the US and other members safe for 70 years.
  • Constant undermining of the United Nations. This weakens the body the world uses to settle disputes and sanction bad actors.
  • Driving wedges between us and traditional allies such as Britain, Canada, Mexico and France.
  • Fomenting extreme discord in our own populace, which keeps us distracted from true concerns that threaten our position on the global stage and our national security.
  • Opening up the Arctic to oil drilling. This is a joint interest between the likes of Rex Tillerson and Russians. The Russians need money. Selling oil is their quickest way to get it.
  • Tariffs. This has weakened America in the global market, particularly with China. A stronger China and a weaker America benefits Russia.
  • Pulling out of the INF Treaty. Russia was already violating the treaty, but by pulling out of it instead of utilizing sanctions to force compliance, Trump enables Russia to continue its violations without consequence.
  • Pulling out of Syria allows Russia and Iran to expand their influence in the country and the region. Russia has had its eye on those warm water ports to export its oil and other goods for a long, long time.
  • Trump's Department of Homeland Security gutted the two task forces assembled to fight foreign interference in our elections, which benefits the Russians.
  • Keeping the contents of his meetings with Putin a secret. It puts our national security at risk by keeping the information from our own agencies, and allows Russia to say whatever they want about what occurred. It also creates leverage against the occupant of the Oval Office, because Russians know what Americans don't. Official note takers protect the record and ensure our agencies understand our foreign policy goals. Trump doesn't want that.
  • Inviting Russians into the Oval Office itself. No other American president would have done that. I wonder how many bugs were planted that day?
  • Excluding the American press at meetings between Putin and Trump. We learn everything from the state-controlled Russian press. Trump's undermining of the American press in general is an attack on our form of government, which of course enshrines the freedom of the press in its very first Amendment to the Constitution. This also benefits Russia.
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Old 02-20-2019, 05:52 PM
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Here are a few more:

Ongoing, relentless obstruction of the investigation into Russian interference with our 2016 election -- which I expect will be found to also be part of Trump's conspiracy with Putin.

Constant attacks on American media as the "enemy of the people." This undermines one of our foundational principles: Freedom of the press.

He also just terminated the 2 task forces within DHS assembled to fight foreign election interference. This will certainly help Russia to interfere with 2020 and beyond.
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Old 02-21-2019, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
Inviting Russians into the Oval Office itself. No other American president would have done that. I wonder how many bugs were planted that day.
You realize that the Oval is primarily decorative, right? The President (assuming he) does real work in a separate office adjacent to the Oval Office, which is mostly for public and photo-op-type events, and private meetings typically take place in a different room (like, perhaps, the President's private dining room). This is true of most government executives, like governors: the office most people see is not where they spend most of their time. Bugging the Oval Office would not yield all that much.
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by eschereal View Post
You realize that the Oval is primarily decorative, right? The President (assuming he) does real work in a separate office adjacent to the Oval Office, which is mostly for public and photo-op-type events, and private meetings typically take place in a different room (like, perhaps, the President's private dining room). This is true of most government executives, like governors: the office most people see is not where they spend most of their time. Bugging the Oval Office would not yield all that much.
Yes and no. The security analyst types were having coronaries over Trump inviting them in, so I assume they had their reasons. And I'd allow your point is a fair one in a normal presidency. Do you think this one is normal in any way?

Doesn't really matter. He conducts his business on unsecured phones, mostly. All can just listen in. And that's if he doesn't just voluntarily disclose classified information pertaining to the safety of not only our country, but others, during his discussions with Putin, his goons... or whomever.

Out of interest, what actual work do you think this "president" has done during his time in office?
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Old 02-21-2019, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
Out of interest, what actual work do you think this "president" has done during his time in office?
Depends on what you would call "work". He has put a fair bit of effort into destroying the economy, ruining the environment and eroding America's position of respect in the rest of the world (mostly by hiring assholes and fuckups to do it for him). So if you mean "of value", then, none.
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Old 02-22-2019, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by eschereal View Post
Depends on what you would call "work". He has put a fair bit of effort into destroying the economy, ruining the environment and eroding America's position of respect in the rest of the world (mostly by hiring assholes and fuckups to do it for him). So if you mean "of value", then, none.
On this point, we are in complete agreement.
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:20 PM
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I think this belongs in this thread, as Individual-1 is setting an example for Vlad to build upon.
Russia's parliament has passed two bills outlawing "disrespect" of authorities and the spreading of what the government deems to be "fake news".
The first ban refers to "blatant disrespect" of the state, its officials and Russian society, and repeat offenders face up to 15 days in jail.
The second bill prohibits sharing "false information of public interest, shared under the guise of fake news," the TASS state news agency reported.

Last edited by eschereal; 03-18-2019 at 08:22 PM.
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