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  #1  
Old 05-19-2020, 02:23 PM
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Trump not unveiling Obama portrait


Not a big deal but yet another example of how he doesn't give a f**k about normal traditions.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...e-house-2020-5
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Old 05-19-2020, 02:31 PM
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Seems to me that this has more to do with his hatred Obama's legacy.
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Old 05-19-2020, 02:35 PM
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Mitch McConnell will be by any moment to condemn this "classless" display.
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Old 05-19-2020, 02:37 PM
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He just can't stop confirming my opinion of him.

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Old 05-19-2020, 02:49 PM
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Well, it really is a big deal. It's a major insult to Obama that would likely be front page news in sane times. It's just that in today's world, this is one more outrage in an endless stream of outrages. It's hard to get upset at Trump dissing a better man when he does so many other things that are worse.
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Old 05-19-2020, 02:57 PM
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Maybe it's better this way. Do we really need another confused, rambling speech about troops with no ammunition, depleted pandemic supplies, Hillary's E-mails, illegal voting, attempted Deep State coups and the Best-Attended Inaugural of All Time?

Last edited by El_Kabong; 05-19-2020 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 05-19-2020, 03:03 PM
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Surprised he hasn't ordered a painting of Obama picking cotton with on the "Trump Alley Plantation (Hotel and Casino) in Louisiana.
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Old 05-19-2020, 03:09 PM
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A small, petty man does a small, petty thing. Film at 11:00.
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Old 05-19-2020, 03:33 PM
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His whining, if his successor pulls the same thing on him, will be easily heard around the world, even if every media outlet in the world does the sane thing and ignores him 5 minutes after he's out of office.
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Old 05-19-2020, 04:08 PM
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Not a big deal but yet another example of how he doesn't give a f**k about normal traditions.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...e-house-2020-5
Did you read the second paragraph?

Quote:
Obama would also not be interested in attending such an event, according to the report, which cited people familiar with the matter.
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Old 05-19-2020, 04:13 PM
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It really does look like both camps decided that it would be best to skip the whole thing.
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Old 05-19-2020, 04:42 PM
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"Obama would also not be interested in attending such an event, according to the report, which cited people familiar with the matter." ...because Trump is an unprecedented piece of shit. This situation has arisen with no other so-called President than Trump, because Trump is a piece of shit.
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Old 05-21-2020, 02:09 PM
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"Obama would also not be interested in attending such an event, according to the report, which cited people familiar with the matter." ...because Trump is an unprecedented piece of shit. This situation has arisen with no other so-called President than Trump, because Trump is a piece of shit.
Trump is not a piece of shit. He is an entire shit. He is the grand daddy of all shit.
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Old 05-21-2020, 06:44 PM
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I myself would be happy to live in a country with neither political prisoners nor hellish penitentiaries.

If what you fantasize had come to pass, I canít see myself having changed my registration from Republican to Democratic in 2016.
No one said anything about political prisoners. They're talking about criminals convicted of crimes in a court of law serving their time.
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Old 05-22-2020, 03:39 PM
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Trump is not a piece of shit. He is an entire shit. He is the grand daddy of all shit.
This hard to argue with. But he's also smaller pieces. "Donald Trump: Piece Of Shit" is a true statement, as well as your's is, too.
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:13 PM
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It really does look like both camps decided that it would be best to skip the whole thing.
Well, you know, both sides have agreed that it's probably a bad idea, har har har. No need to wonder why, peoples! Both sides, OK? Both sides.
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Old 05-19-2020, 04:55 PM
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Did you read the second paragraph?
Really? Are we going to have a conversation about who started it?
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:34 PM
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Really? Are we going to have a conversation about who started it?
I didn't say anything about "who started it".
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:43 PM
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Trump did.
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:57 PM
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Trump did.
Cite please.
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Old 05-19-2020, 07:44 PM
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I didn't say anything about "who started it".
Well, maybe they should have led the story off with the fact that Obama doesn't have any interest in attending his portrait unveiling by Trump at the White House.

Would that have been better?
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Old 05-19-2020, 06:12 PM
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Did you read the second paragraph?
So why do YOU think Obama would not be interested in such an event? George W. Bush was interested in such an event when Obama was president. Clinton was interested in such an event when W. was president. HW was interested in such an event with Clinton was president.

What do YOU think would make Obama not be interested in having his portrait unveiled at the White House, like every other president in recent history has had done?
  #23  
Old 05-19-2020, 11:17 PM
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Did you read the second paragraph?
Yeah, I read it and am not surprised considering how shitty Trump has been toward Obama since he was inaugurated.

If DJT had an ounce of class he would invite Obama and then when Obama declined he would still go ahead and have a ceremony just like any previous President would do. Instead he yet again shows himself to be a petty, childish, narcissistic asshole.
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:03 PM
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McCain banned Trump from his funeral with good reason. When was the last time a sitting president was banned from a funeral of a well known senator?
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:05 PM
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Not a big deal but yet another example of how he doesn't give a f**k about normal traditions.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...e-house-2020-5
As if we needed more examples of what a small man he is.
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:24 PM
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Hardly surprising, considering how badly Chump has been trashing Obama. It would be pretty awkward if Obama did attend. Not awkward for Chump, who has no sense of shame whatsoever, but awkward for everyone else. I agree with Elendil's Heir in another thread, Obama can soon go see it as the guest of President Biden.
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:29 PM
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I don't know. If I were Trump's successor I certainly wouldn't want to unveil his portrait and this would give me coverage to avoid it. Maybe just as well. (Ducks.)
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:37 PM
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I don't know. If I were Trump's successor I certainly wouldn't want to unveil his portrait and this would give me coverage to avoid it. Maybe just as well. (Ducks.)
Trumps potrait will be unveiled in the Arkham Asylum.
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:46 PM
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Back when we had an actual President, who wasn't a piece of shit, President Obama unveiled GWB's portrait. Here's a snippet of the dignity and respect this country used to have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGuxcsRP_uI
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Old 05-19-2020, 06:51 PM
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If I were Trump's successor I certainly wouldn't want to unveil his portrait and this would give me coverage to avoid it. . . ..
If Trump gets the successor he wants -- maybe Trump Jr. -- it won't be a problem.

But if his successor is a small-d democrat (probably also means a big D Democrat), all sorts of honors that normally go to a former President won't go to DJT.

Ideally, it won't be a one-off, but a chance to rethink the dangers of an imperial presidency.

So -- Obama's presidential library should be the last.

The Former Presidents Act should be scaled back to secret-service protection only.

And no more having an on-premises, drug-dispensing-on-request, Physician to the President. Abolish the position, or at least make it an honor, for a senior doc, and thus closer to the Physician to the Queen. People talk about how the President is treated like an king, but doing so would be an improvement.

Limit the President to the normal vacation time allocated to federal employees when going to a golf course or rally. Have a White House inspector general, that the President can't fire, keep his or her leave.

I'm sure there are modest, popular, ideas I haven't thought of that would lower the presidential profile. If they applied to Biden, it would be hard for many Republicans to vote against them.

Ideally, Trump will flee to one of his UAE golf clubs, from which it will hard for him to oppose such a never-Trump-again agenda. A guy can dream, right
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Old 05-20-2020, 07:34 AM
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Morally, Donald Trump is a white supremacist in a business suit. Intellectually, he is the personification of, "Beavis and Butt-head Do America".
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:18 AM
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This makes me wonder whether Biden, if he were elected, would invite Trump for an unveiling ceremony.

And speaking of which, just what would Trump's portrait look like? Would it depict him sitting on a throne or wearing an ermine robe?

Or would he go for something like this:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...icture-twitter

Last edited by joebuck20; 05-20-2020 at 08:22 AM.
  #33  
Old 05-20-2020, 08:27 AM
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This makes me wonder whether Biden, if he were elected, would invite Trump for an unveiling ceremony.
If there is any justice left in this world, Trump will have to ask for permission to attend from the correctional facility authorities.
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Old 05-20-2020, 11:12 AM
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If there is any justice left in this world, Trump will have to ask for permission to attend from the correctional facility authorities.
He could attend via Zoom.
  #35  
Old 05-20-2020, 11:52 AM
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This doesn't surprise me, President Trump acts like a spiteful and spoiled six year old who truly believes everyone who disagrees with him is mean. It is unfortunate.

As for "What would Joe do" or even better, "What would Barak do", it's discouraging that the correct answer isn't obvious: They'd be grownups about it, respectful of the office and of the nation's electoral voice even when they disagree with it, and they'd execute the ceremony with sincere gratitude for the opportunity to participate in a moment of the nation's history.
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Old 05-20-2020, 12:42 PM
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As for "What would Joe do" or even better, "What would Barak do", it's discouraging that the correct answer isn't obvious: They'd be grownups about it, respectful of the office and of the nation's electoral voice even when they disagree with it, and they'd execute the ceremony with sincere gratitude for the opportunity to participate in a moment of the nation's history.
This.

I have great respect for the office of the President of the United States. There are a lot of Trumpanistas that think he is mistreated and that the office should be respected. However, this whole episode shows that HE DOESN'T EVEN RESPECT THE OFFICE HIMSELF. I would hope that the next president would again return respect to the office. I do not like the man, but he was legally elected and has held the office. He will get a portrait, and it will be revealed with respect. After that, I hope some kid draws a mustache on it with a sharpie.
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Old 05-20-2020, 04:32 PM
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He will get a portrait, and it will be revealed with respect. After that, I hope some kid draws a mustache on it with a sharpie.
These two contradictory sentences nicely present the problem.

You can argue that there were presidents who damaged my country more than Trump has so far. A good case could be made for either James Buchanan or Andrew Johnson being a more harmful one-termer. But no other President can match Trump in how often he talked like a dictator. (To test this, go to Wikiquote.com)

If Joe Biden wins, his administration is going to be under pressure to have Trump arrested. As much as it would be deserved, I think it would be a polarizing mistake. But that doesn't mean Biden needs to honor a prime conspiracy theorist who incites crowds against present reporters, jokes about being president for life, cruelly insults women's looks, and is on track to becoming a real tyrant if given another four years.

Should a future President should go to the funeral, showing no rancor? Yes. Trump should be given that much honor. But none before.
  #38  
Old 05-20-2020, 06:21 PM
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These two contradictory sentences nicely present the problem.

If Joe Biden wins, his administration is going to be under pressure to have Trump arrested. As much as it would be deserved, I think it would be a polarizing mistake.
It seems that this is going to be one of the most difficult issues post Trump,
Much of what he's doing looks to be illegal and damaging to democracy - but what if there are no consequences to it?

At some point, don't we have to say that this is NOT acceptable?

Trump is already threatening what looks to be one of the cleanest administrations in recent memory with prosecution, so I do see the danger in investigations of Trump post presidency...
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Old 05-21-2020, 01:23 AM
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At some point, don't we have to say that this is NOT acceptable?
Yes, itís called an election.

Myself thought it was bleedingly obvious in 2016 but next available opportunity would do in a pinch.
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Old 05-22-2020, 04:55 AM
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I can only hope his successor unveils his protrait and lets me paint it. Like that, if I may attempt to be so tasteless as he is.
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:02 PM
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I have great respect for the office of the President of the United States. There are a lot of Trumpanistas that think he is mistreated and that the office should be respected. However, this whole episode shows that HE DOESN'T EVEN RESPECT THE OFFICE HIMSELF.
Their respect for the office is highly dependent on who the occupant is. They don't respect the presidency equally. Trump voters see the world through a tribal lens. James Carville said it right on election night 2016: the people who voted for Trump don't want to be united; they want the world to live by its terms. Part of their contempt for Obama, beyond his ethnicity, was his worldview of inclusion - a worldview that embraces the idea that America's not just a country for white Christians, but also Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Muslims, gays, immigrants, women, and others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Winston OBoogie View Post
I would hope that the next president would again return respect to the office. I do not like the man, but he was legally elected and has held the office. He will get a portrait, and it will be revealed with respect. After that, I hope some kid draws a mustache on it with a sharpie.
Respecting the office means prosecuting all of the criminals who are part of this corrupt cabal. Otherwise, the message going forward will be that criminals who occupy the white house will invariably be exonerated by virtue of political tradition which says "We don't prosecute our political rivals." That's the sticky wicket we're in now. We're forced to confront the assault on our democracy, but confronting that assault means prosecuting political rivals. The apolitical among us might assume that Democrats are just trying to get even.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Last edited by asahi; 05-21-2020 at 07:03 PM.
  #42  
Old 05-20-2020, 05:24 PM
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When Trump dies, all flagpoles should be extended 50%.
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  #43  
Old 05-20-2020, 06:44 PM
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We made that mistake 12 years ago with Obama and “Let’s move on” and no investigations/prosecutions of the criminal morons of the Dubya administration. I for one would be happier with the image of Cheney and Rumsfeld breaking rocks in some hellish southern penitentiary than picturing them living the fat life on their blood money. Let’s not make that mistake again.
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Old 05-20-2020, 07:02 PM
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I for one would be happier with the image of Cheney and Rumsfeld breaking rocks in some hellish southern penitentiary . . .
I myself would be happy to live in a country with neither political prisoners nor hellish penitentiaries.

If what you fantasize had come to pass, I canít see myself having changed my registration from Republican to Democratic in 2016.

As for the political prisoners, Trump would have freed them years ago.

Now, drawing the line between political prisoners and ordinary criminals, who happen to be politicians, can be hard. But the way you do it is to err on the side of not prosecuting.
  #45  
Old 05-20-2020, 08:11 PM
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Now, drawing the line between political prisoners and ordinary criminals, who happen to be politicians, can be hard. But the way you do it is to err on the side of not prosecuting.
"Let criminals go free if they ever held political office, either elected or appointed, because maybe someone somewhere thinks their prosecution might be politically motivated."


I'm gonna go with, "Nah."
  #46  
Old 05-20-2020, 07:19 PM
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We made that mistake 12 years ago with Obama and ďLetís move onĒ and no investigations/prosecutions of the criminal morons of the Dubya administration. I for one would be happier with the image of Cheney and Rumsfeld breaking rocks in some hellish southern penitentiary than picturing them living the fat life on their blood money. Letís not make that mistake again.
Serious question -
If we HAD seen that happen, would it have made it easier for Trump to today be "prosecuting" Obama? Would we now be seeing people from the Obama administration under facing actual charges?

I think politicians need to be held to account for blatant factual lies - just not sure how to do it given the general cluelessness of the electorate
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Old 05-20-2020, 07:14 PM
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No, the way you do it is you prosecute and give the war criminals you supported until 2016 a chance to defend themselves.
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:07 PM
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No, the way you do it is you prosecute and give the war criminals you supported until 2016 a chance to defend themselves.
Alleged war criminals.

I think they had ample opportunity to defend themselves at news conferences while in office.

I have at least two contradictory ideas in my mind here.

One is that, in 2019 federal prosecutions, fewer than 1% went to trial and won their cases. This shows how hard it is to beat a federal charge, even without the massive prejudicial pretrial publicity that Bush/Rumsfeld/Cheney would have faced. So there is a good chance they could have gone to prison until freed by Donald Trump.

On the other hand, the case you propose seems to have little jury appeal.

The prospect of living in a country where losing an election results in prosecution has little appeal to me. Whether it would make life better in Afghanistan is admittedly an open question. I think no.

As far the idea of living in a country where one party, the Democrats, locks up those they defeated, while the Republicans don't do it -- that sounds highly unlikely. But, if it does happen, I may change back to being a Republican.
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:16 PM
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One is that, in 2019 federal prosecutions, fewer than 1% went to trial and won their cases. This shows how hard it is to beat a federal charge, even without the massive prejudicial pretrial publicity that Bush/Rumsfeld/Cheney would have faced. So there is a good chance they could have gone to prison until freed by Donald Trump.
That would totally make sense if the people charged with federal crimes was random. Instead, you might look at the data as "98% of people charged with federal crimes DID it." Are you arguing that federal prosecutors (and grand juries) are just flipping coins to see if someone's charged with a crime? Hell, according to your cite, almost half of states have similar trial rates.

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ďIf anything,Ē a 2017 law journal article said, ďthere is even less likelihood of a case proceeding to trial in state court than in federal court.Ē
  #50  
Old 05-20-2020, 09:10 PM
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Are you arguing that federal prosecutors (and grand juries) are just flipping coins to see if someone's charged with a crime?
No. I have every suspicion that indicted people have a higher incidence of actual criminality than the general population. I also have a strong suspicion that those convicted are more likely to be actual criminals than the acquitted.

However, there is a human tendency to, without significant additional evidence, jump from thinking something is probable to thinking it is certain. Prosecutors, judges, and juries are not exempt from this.

Another factor is the Three Felonies a Day problem. There are so many laws, and so many opportunities for a high administration appointee to break them, that every incoming administration can potentially lock up the one before.
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