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  #51  
Old 01-04-2019, 01:24 PM
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Icarus Icarus is online now
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Fear.

Or, more specifically, our perception of and reaction to threats. It seems that everything else is a rooted in that.
  #52  
Old 01-04-2019, 03:35 PM
bump bump is offline
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Originally Posted by msmith537 View Post
Except that isn't quite true. The red/blue divide isn't evenly split between black/white, rich/poor, or urban/rural. Colleges are full of affluent liberals and rural areas are full of poor conservatives. Wall Street tends to run conservative while Silicon Valley tends to run liberal.


If I were to define the divide, I would say it's split between people who want things to stay the same (conservatives) and people who want things to change (liberals).

Conservatives fear societal change because they worry about becoming marginalized in a world where traditional social structures have changed.

Liberals believe they are making the world a better place for everyone, but their policies often have unintended negative consequences.
Well put- I think that's the single biggest divider. Class/income is probably second.

And, I'll go ahead and say that a lot of what we think of as racism in the US is really just classism that is confused with racism, because minorities are disproportionately poor here. So a lot of what people are getting down on is poor people and how they behave, not the color of their skin. But since a lot of those poor people (and people think urban poor typically) aren't white, that gets all wound in and confused with the poverty part.
  #53  
Old 01-05-2019, 09:44 AM
Annie-Xmas Annie-Xmas is offline
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Some people are willing to work, some people think everything should be handed to them.

Seriously. I've known people who think the government should support them and they shouldn't have to do anything to get help. And I was recently homeless and didn't ask anyone to help me get a place. Just made calls and applied till I got somewhere to live.
  #54  
Old 01-05-2019, 09:47 AM
WernhamHogg WernhamHogg is offline
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It seems like every post is about some virtue one group has and the other group doesn't have. Astonishingly, the poster is always from the "in" group.
  #55  
Old 01-05-2019, 09:59 AM
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At a guess, and what happens all over the World and all through history, obsessing over what makes *us* different than *them*.
  #56  
Old 01-05-2019, 10:27 AM
senoy senoy is online now
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Originally Posted by WernhamHogg View Post
It seems like every post is about some virtue one group has and the other group doesn't have. Astonishingly, the poster is always from the "in" group.
Not mine. Both Gesellschaft and Gemeinschaft have pros and cons.
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Old 01-05-2019, 10:59 AM
WernhamHogg WernhamHogg is offline
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At a guess, and what happens all over the World and all through history, obsessing over what makes *us* different than *them*.
Yeah, but "they're protestant and we're catholic" is a bit more empirical than the abstractions here. It shows me that people who aren't talking about race, social class, and other real divisive factors really don't know what the nation's dividing lines are. It does answer the question of why people maintain those divisions, though -- eg Annie's self-serving proclomation of a work ethic is how people justify social stratification.
  #58  
Old 01-05-2019, 11:12 PM
Ale Ale is offline
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Originally Posted by WernhamHogg View Post
Yeah, but "they're protestant and we're catholic" is a bit more empirical than the abstractions here. It shows me that people who aren't talking about race, social class, and other real divisive factors really don't know what the nation's dividing lines are. It does answer the question of why people maintain those divisions, though -- eg Annie's self-serving proclomation of a work ethic is how people justify social stratification.
The dividing lines are created by minding too much the differences between people in the first place.
Unfortunately we are hard wired for tribalism and it takes good mental hygiene habits to stay away from it.

You only need to look at how very artificial lines can be drawn between groups that are essentially identical except for one particular label they apply to themselves and others; a very clear example is members of different sport teams that come from essentially the same homogeneous mix of individuals from a society who, based on nothing but one voluntary, arbitrary and frankly spurious difference can develop a strong antipathy towards each other, even leading to violence.
What happens between two people saying to each other "I like team Red" and "I like team Blue" over a friendly conversation to them bashing each other into a bloody pulp is a downward spiral of ever increasing othering.

At least that is my reckoning because I'm a first principles kind of person.
First the line is drawn, usually over a minimal or inconsequential different, and then various mechanisms kick in to widen it, for example what usually happens is that once an Us vs. Them situation begins the reasons for the division begin to change from first hand experience to what Us say about Them (and vice versa on the other side), this leads to a feedback loop where Group A arbitrarily ascribe negative characteristics to Group B, that group feels slighted and does the same and so on and so forth.
In the end what, for example, starts with a minor difference in the way two groups of people interpret religious scriptures ends up with calling someone a Devil worshiper while doing very nasty things against the bodily integrity of the other.
  #59  
Old 01-06-2019, 09:56 AM
survinga survinga is offline
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Originally Posted by JB99 View Post
Yep. He said out loud what other people said in private.

I keep meeting conservatives who insist they are not racist, because in their minds a ‘racist’ is someone who literally wears a white hood. And yet over, and over, and over, research finds that racial anxiety, animus, and resentment were the strongest correlation in Trump voters. (Even compared to other Republicans)
I remember him promising to not cut any benefits for SS/Medicare/Medicaid, advocating trillions of dollars for infrastructure spending, advocating trade protectionism and higher tariffs, and at one point even talking about raising taxes on some hedge fund people.

And he said all this in a Republican primary, and yet won the primaries. The big factor for his "team" was race/minorities/cultural/immigration, etc. His fans didn't care about the tariffs. But they cheered like crazy when he talked about a wall.
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