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  #51  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:04 AM
enipla enipla is online now
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I think they should threaten a resolution that the President of the United States must eat food prepared in the White House kitchen when in residence. It's a safety concern after all.

No more 1/4 pounders without pickles and extra ketchup.

If you must negotiate with a toddler, make sure it's about something they understand.
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  #52  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Tru dat.

Here's my proposal: Pelosi should tell Trump that if the Senate passes and Trump signs the House appropriations bill 'as is', then she promises to tack on the $5.7B for the wall onto H.R.1, which she guarantees will pass the House, after which the Senate Republicans will have no Dem opposition to getting it to Trump's desk.

1) The deal should be structured this way so that if Trump agrees to the deal then changes his mind before signing the House bill, the Dems haven't given up anything.

2) If Trump and/or McConnell decide later that H.R.1 is too big a price to pay for wall funding, it's no loss for the Dems: H.R.1 wasn't going to pass anyway.

3) If Trump tells McConnell that he wants his wall funding, dammit, and all that voting rights stuff doesn't matter to him one way or the other, then $5.7B is a small price to pay for getting H.R.1 onto the books.
I agree with whoever said RTFirefly wins the thread. This is genius. Even better, it's realistic.
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  #53  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Lord Feldon View Post
I also kind of want to see if he could be conned into supporting DC statehood. Bait him with comments about how no President since Eisenhower has gotten to change the flag, and how there would be a Trump Star but no Obama Star.
Extremely stupid, but pretty much harmless-works for me.
Washington DC
Puerto Rico
Guam
New Mexico(yeah, I know...but there's a good chance he doesn't )
  #54  
Old 01-11-2019, 12:48 PM
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Aside, why is a government shutdown always the Republican guy's fault?
In this particular case, as others have said, it is mostly because Trump said it was his fault on national television. But in general, its because its generally the Republicans who are trying to upset the status quo. In this time as in other times the Democrats would be perfectly willing to pass a clean spending bill and continuing resolution that keeps the government open. Its the Republicans who want to put things like the wall, or defunding planned parenthood, or defunding the ACA etc. So one side is holding the government hostage until their demands are met, while the otherside wants the hostages released but is unwilling to give into the demands of the hostage takers.

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Originally Posted by BigT View Post
I like the idea of tacking it onto HR1. And the way you said to implement it is brilliant. Tacking it onto a bill Dems want and Pubs don't makes it where the Dems either get a win or are no worse off.

What's more, I think that, if Trump wanted to, he could sell his base on HR1 quite easily, since he actually ran on reducing corruption in government. If he does, the Pubs can either grow balls and not agree with him, or agree with him and give the Dems what they want.

If this was some other forum, I'd have said RTFirefly won the thread. But maybe some of you can come up with something even better.

I'd gladly take that offer, but I can't imagine Trump going for it. Trump doesn't really care personally one way or another about the wall, he just knows he will look bad to his base if he doesn't get it. HR1 on the other hand which will put an ethics spotlight on the whitehouse, would affect him personally. While it is possible to conceive something that Trump would exchange of give up on the wall, there is absolutely nothing that would convince him to pass HR1, no matter what the political costs.

Last edited by Buck Godot; 01-11-2019 at 12:50 PM.
  #55  
Old 01-11-2019, 01:54 PM
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I understand Saudi Arabia takes in fallen despots.
If you want to go outside of Europe, there is always the Philippines also.
  #56  
Old 01-11-2019, 02:24 PM
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I also kind of want to see if he could be conned into supporting DC statehood. Bait him with comments about how no President since Eisenhower has gotten to change the flag, and how there would be a Trump Star but no Obama Star.
Ooh! Ooh! OK, that, then he has to resign and move to Scotland or Monaco or somewhere.
  #57  
Old 01-11-2019, 05:31 PM
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Hmmm... I could swear that I wrote that it was, in fact, an impasse for me.
No. You gave a factual reason why you thought it was an impasse. And I proved your factual reason wrong. It is always possible to negotiate with someone who is dishonest: you just have to cash the check before you give them what they want.

Let me give an example. Let's go wild and say we want LGBT treated as a suspect class in exchange for the Well. The House adds this to the shutdown reversal bill. The Senate passes it because Trump says he will pass it. Trump then can either sign it and thus cannot renege, or he doesn't sign it, and he doesn't get the government funded.

There is no trust issue. We worked around it.

You can continue to personally believe something that is counterfactual, but the facts are that you can in fact negotiate with an untrustworthy opponent. Your claim otherwise is false.
  #58  
Old 01-11-2019, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Buck Godot View Post
I'd gladly take that offer, but I can't imagine Trump going for it. Trump doesn't really care personally one way or another about the wall, he just knows he will look bad to his base if he doesn't get it. HR1 on the other hand which will put an ethics spotlight on the whitehouse, would affect him personally. While it is possible to conceive something that Trump would exchange of give up on the wall, there is absolutely nothing that would convince him to pass HR1, no matter what the political costs.
I might agree if Trump were capable of understanding that the law would hurt him. But I'm not sure he would be, without someone helping him. (He sure didn't figure out that the existing laws could hurt his corruption.) And would Republicans be willing to tell him that it would hurt him, thus admitting Trump is corrupt?

I'm not saying he will definitely accept it: we're assuming a desperate Trump for the purposes of this hypothetical. But I think it's a nice juicy steak to hold out in front of him. "We'll put the Wall funding in HR1 if you will agree to sign it."

He may not care about the Wall itself, but he does care about being seen to win the fight on the Wall. And this would allow him to sell a win to the base. If he's desperate enough, and thinks he's legally untouchable enough, he could do it.
  #59  
Old 01-11-2019, 07:34 PM
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But I think it's a nice juicy steak to hold out in front of him.
A nice, well done steak with catsup.
Oh, the horror!
  #60  
Old 01-12-2019, 10:09 AM
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Ooh! Ooh! OK, that, then he has to resign and move to Scotland or Monaco or somewhere.
No, no, no. Mexico. THEN we can build a very special wall. "Donald who?"
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  #61  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:37 PM
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If you want to go outside of Europe, there is always the Philippines also.
Or Saudi Arabia
  #62  
Old 01-17-2019, 05:58 PM
Ancient Erudite Ancient Erudite is offline
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I wouldn't engage in any transactional horse-trading with Trump. He's completely untrustworthy, and I'd have no faith he would carry out any agreement. He's already making noise about overriding congressional decisions not to fund the wall by declaring an emergency... why should I trust him not to deport DACA kids after a law is passed?

I'd just angle for a border security package that actually does some good and isn't a vanity/campaign project.
There are 10,000+ USA citizens that are victims at the hands of illegal immigration every year, and the drug problem screams for better border security as well.

As for what type of deal can be made? Funding what Trump wants, which represents something like less than .05% of the total USA federal budget in exchange for badly needed infrastructure problems

Democrats were actually for a fence/wall when Obama was president. Why change theri tune now? The answer is obvious, they do not want to give Trump another political victory and are okay doing nothing at the expense of USA victims.
  #63  
Old 01-17-2019, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ancient Erudite View Post
There are 10,000+ USA citizens that are victims at the hands of illegal immigration every year, and the drug problem screams for better border security as well.
90% of drugs crossing the border come through ports of entry. The vast majority of fentanyl, for example, comes from China through normal express mail. How does a wall help that?


Quote:
Democrats were actually for a fence/wall when Obama was president. Why change theri tune now? The answer is obvious, they do not want to give Trump another political victory and are okay doing nothing at the expense of USA victims.
Because what they voted for was a reasonable, workable idea to secure the border. They voted for a package of fences in some places, sensors in others, and drones in others. Trump just wants a wall with his name on it - an obviously stupid idea to anyone who thinks about it for ten seconds.
  #64  
Old Today, 07:24 AM
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Those are good, but I'd add support for letting refugees in, the way it has been traditionally done.
I am not a citizen or resident of the USA but one idea mentioned further up sounds really appealing:

Strong and nationwide gun control against border wall funding.

Let's see which one is more important to his supporters.
  #65  
Old Today, 09:43 AM
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I am not a citizen or resident of the USA but one idea mentioned further up sounds really appealing:

Strong and nationwide gun control against border wall funding.

Let's see which one is more important to his supporters.
I like it.
There would be cries of “Wall? What wall?” throughout the land.
  #66  
Old Today, 11:09 AM
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I am not a citizen or resident of the USA but one idea mentioned further up sounds really appealing:

Strong and nationwide gun control against border wall funding.

Let's see which one is more important to his supporters.
You could even pitch gun control measures as "necessary to keep guns out of the hands of undocumented aliens and potential terrorists." The MAGAts would buy it.
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