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  #101  
Old 09-22-2017, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by PastTense View Post
Look at boxing: boxing doesn't exist at the high school or college level, but you still have professional boxing.
True, but...

Boxing (and, for that matter, MMA, which now seems to be far more popular than boxing is) is an individual sport, not a team sport. You don't need thousands of high-level professionals in boxing, or in MMA, for the sport to do well from a fan standpoint. And, a large number of the participants in the sport (at least in boxing; I know very little about MMA) aren't from the U.S.

Even if there isn't organized, interscholastic boxing or MMA at the high school or college level, I suspect that most boxers and martial artists aren't suddenly picking up the sport at age 20 or 22...many of them are probably starting into the sport (or other martial arts) when they're teenagers.

When I say that the NFL would suffer if there wasn't high school football, what I'm saying is not that high school football, in and of itself, is needed for creating future NFL players -- it's that you need to have *something* in which large numbers of teenaged boys are playing football. And, if large numbers of parents start to prevent their sons from playing, it doesn't matter if there are non-scholastic options for playing football or not. A lack of football players at age 18 or 22 is a lack of those players, period.

The NFL, as it exists today, requires nearly 1700 players on a weekly basis (53 man roster, times 32 teams). Add in injury replacements, mid-season pickups, etc., and you're probably looking at 2000 players or more in a year (not to mention an additional 1000 or more who participate in training camp), nearly all of whom are from the US, and nearly all of whom played football throughout both high school and college.

And that's the problem.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 09-22-2017 at 08:05 PM.
  #102  
Old 09-23-2017, 08:48 AM
LSLGuy LSLGuy is offline
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Agreed. Amateur & youth boxing in the US is a lot more organized than PastTense seems to know. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gloves. In poorer parts of many cities, boxing is an organized school sport. Just as organized high school golf is not rare in expensive upscale suburbs.

Neither sport is on nearly the scale of organized football, but they're both still present. And as kenobi_65 says, the professional demand for skilled boxers (& golfers) is small compared to NFL.


On the football front we may see some schools pull away from sponsoring football teams after the next highly publicized very expensive lawsuit over a player's death or injury. School districts, with their governmentally deep pockets make a nearly ideal lawsuit magnet. Which makes administrators particularly risk-averse.

There is a widespread and popular US youth amateur football league: http://www.popwarner.com/. Right now they mostly cater to younger kids since high schools pretty universally offer football. But as high schools pull away, Pop Warner could easily expand into that niche.

In an alternative outcome Pop Warner could go the other way, destroyed by the same parental concerns that may strangle high school football. IMO watching the relative advance or decline of PW vs. HS football will give us the canary in the coal mine. If PW starts dying out from the young end, HS will be deeply affected by 8 to 10 years later and the NFL 6 to 10 years after that. If not; not.

The punchline here being that the NFL has a large and varied feeder root system. NFL may contract, but it won't die for lack of players until almost all the various tendrils of the roots themselves go dead.

I also think we can safely assume that parental refusal to countenance youth football in its present form will grow from the rich end of the SES first. The fancy set is already playing lacrosse. Poor kids in hardscrabble towns or urban areas will be the last to see football go.

If indeed it does go. Football will live or die based on a developing viral social attitude toward injury risk, most notably CTE risk. Which might spin up either way at any time for no identifiable reason.

Last edited by LSLGuy; 09-23-2017 at 08:52 AM.
  #103  
Old 09-23-2017, 11:04 AM
Manda JO Manda JO is online now
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College ball may disappear first. It's pretty exploitative as it is: adding "you are doing irreparable damage to your brain" on top of all the other issues and a lot of people might start deciding that a scholarship isn't worth the cost.

I wonder how much the pool of potential pro players has to sink before the quality of the game play decreases?
  #104  
Old 09-23-2017, 06:51 PM
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There is another possibility: that fans will simply find a lower level of play than currently exists acceptable, and a new equilibrium is established based on whatever the new standards of "entertaining football" become.
  #105  
Old 09-23-2017, 07:45 PM
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Lots of US folks already prefer watching college football over pro football. College ball, even top-ranked college ball, is significantly less skillful than pro ball.

I used to attend football games of a small local college. They were part of a bush league of a dozen-ish Nowheresville Colleges spread around the central Midwest. They were several notches below the bottom of the NCAA system.

They played very entertaining high energy football. It was real accident-prone, but frankly watching the broken plays and the teams' ad libbed recoveries of whatever mistaken hijinks just happened was lots of fun. An NFL purist would scoff mightily at the crappy play. But it was still plenty fun to watch once you got your mind right about what to expect. The best part was the $5 tickets, the stands full of college girls, and free parking at most 50 yards from the gate. Let's see you top that, NFL. I dare ya.

IMO NFL can survive being less skillful. What they can't survive without major rework is being less popular. If their TV & in-person audience collapsed to NHL levels they'd go broke unless they learned real fast how to be real lean.

Last edited by LSLGuy; 09-23-2017 at 07:46 PM.
  #106  
Old 09-23-2017, 08:37 PM
Kropotkin Kropotkin is offline
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The book Tackling Rugby https://www.versobooks.com/books/1712-tackling-rugby has some sobering arguments about the dangers of rugby. Would also add that the "choice" many boxers and football players make is often bounded by poverty and few options. If you want to calculate how informed and free those choices are, we can construct a pretty simple experiment by offering them remedial education and training and decent jobs and see how many still decide to choose to spin the wheel.
  #107  
Old 09-23-2017, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by LSLGuy View Post
I used to attend football games of a small local college. They were part of a bush league of a dozen-ish Nowheresville Colleges spread around the central Midwest. They were several notches below the bottom of the NCAA system.

They played very entertaining high energy football. It was real accident-prone, but frankly watching the broken plays and the teams' ad libbed recoveries of whatever mistaken hijinks just happened was lots of fun. An NFL purist would scoff mightily at the crappy play. But it was still plenty fun to watch once you got your mind right about what to expect. The best part was the $5 tickets, the stands full of college girls, and free parking at most 50 yards from the gate. Let's see you top that, NFL. I dare ya.
Two years ago, I worked as scorekeeper and assistant statistician for a minor-league arena football team. Definitely a low-rent operation, playing in an indoor soccer arena in suburban Chicago, in front of a few hundred fans. Most of their players were from Division II and III college football programs; a few were from Division I, and they were clearly far more talented than most of the others on the field. Yes, sometimes sloppy, but usually entertaining.

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IMO NFL can survive being less skillful. What they can't survive without major rework is being less popular. If their TV & in-person audience collapsed to NHL levels they'd go broke unless they learned real fast how to be real lean.
Anecdotally, I have several friends who don't follow football nearly as much as they did just a few years ago, and the concussion / CTE issue is one reason why. NFL ratings have been down for a couple of seasons, though there are a number of other possible factors going on (last year's election, this year's hurricanes, some fans annoyed by the National Anthem protests). The next few years will be very interesting.
  #108  
Old 09-24-2017, 12:42 AM
SamuelA SamuelA is offline
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Originally Posted by kenobi 65 View Post
The NFL, as it exists today, requires nearly 1700 players on a weekly basis (53 man roster, times 32 teams). Add in injury replacements, mid-season pickups, etc., and you're probably looking at 2000 players or more in a year (not to mention an additional 1000 or more who participate in training camp), nearly all of whom are from the US, and nearly all of whom played football throughout both high school and college.

And that's the problem.
Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that the total number of kids playing football in high school and college dropped by a factor of 10.

But fans still want to watch NFL football, and viewership is about the same. So the NFL is having to recruit from a 10 times smaller pool.

Would the couch experience of football fans actually be any worse if 10 times less people were trying to become professional football players? Let's assume that the 1/10 who remain are a slice of people with the same average talent as before. And the NFL does pick the best from that slice, but now the new players are objectively worse on average. They are all a little slower, all a little worse in every way.

But their competition - the other players on the field - are also worse.

Can you, as a fan, even tell the difference? If the superstar QB needs a little more time to make an accurate pass, but the defensive players are less good at sacking, it evens out. If the QB throws passes that are easier to intercept, but the average player is less good at making interceptions, it evens out. And so on.

Everyone's stats versus each other are relative, anyway.

Same argument goes if there were 100 times less players. It just means that the college players who do risk the concussions have dramatically better chances of making it to the NFL.

https://www.shmoop.com/careers/footb...etting-in.html

So there are 25,000 NCAA players, and a 7% chance of getting drafted. If 10 times less people wanted to play college football, it would mean a 70% chance of getting drafted. Those are the kind of odds it is worth risking brain injuries for.

Last edited by SamuelA; 09-24-2017 at 12:45 AM.
  #109  
Old 09-24-2017, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by kenobi 65 View Post
Two years ago, I worked as scorekeeper and assistant statistician for a minor-league arena football team. Definitely a low-rent operation, playing in an indoor soccer arena in suburban Chicago, in front of a few hundred fans. Most of their players were from Division II and III college football programs; a few were from Division I, and they were clearly far more talented than most of the others on the field. Yes, sometimes sloppy, but usually entertaining.



Anecdotally, I have several friends who don't follow football nearly as much as they did just a few years ago, and the concussion / CTE issue is one reason why. NFL ratings have been down for a couple of seasons, though there are a number of other possible factors going on (last year's election, this year's hurricanes, some fans annoyed by the National Anthem protests). The next few years will be very interesting.
We also used to attend local low-budget arena football. It was/is definitely a different game than field football, but (dumb) fun nonetheless. And as you say, talent on each team varied wildly.

The absolute most lopsided game we ever watched ended at about 70 to 3. About halfway through the game we figured out why. The low-scoring team only had about half a roster and so the same players were playing both O & D and never got a break. They were exhausted but played their hearts out. Then all went to work at their day jobs the next day.

Anecdotally, I watched only a couple of NFL games last year and last attended in person 6 years ago. I've yet to actually sit down to watch a game this year. I do pay some attention to the snips of games I happen to see in sports bars. Just not that interested. If pressed I could claim that CTE plays a role in my growing disinterest. But that'd probably be at least as much BS as truth. Off-field thuggism is probably a bigger factor.

As a separate matter, the ever more frantic efforts by NFL (& MLB & AB Inbev) to wrap themselves in the flag are far more of a turnoff than any kerfuffle about national anthem protests. IMO jingoism is very off-putting. I suppose my age is starting to show along with my scalp.

Last edited by LSLGuy; 09-24-2017 at 09:28 AM.
  #110  
Old 09-24-2017, 09:38 AM
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Anecdotally, I have several friends who don't follow football nearly as much as they did just a few years ago, and the concussion / CTE issue is one reason why.
I'm another anecdata point of that sort. Rooted for the Redskins for over 40 years, through Lombardi, George Allen, Jack Pardee, both Joe Gibbs eras, Petitbon, Spurrier, etc., but when I found out about CTE a few years back, that was the end of my football fandom.

Once you realize that you're watching the players' brains being slowly turned into a horrible mush, it's hard to keep on watching. Football, like any sporting activity, is supposed to be entertainment, and that's not a very entertaining thought.
  #111  
Old 09-24-2017, 11:02 AM
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Kenobi wrote:
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Anecdotally, I have several friends who don't follow football nearly as much as they did just a few years ago, and the concussion / CTE issue is one reason why. NFL ratings have been down for a couple of seasons, though there are a number of other possible factors going on (last year's election, this year's hurricanes, some fans annoyed by the National Anthem protests). The next few years will be very interesting.
I think the main reason is something that Mark Cuban predicted a few years ago: NFL is on all the time. It's gotten to be too big. I miss the anticipation of games on Sunday, with Monday Night Football to follow. I also think the league has become too star driven, particularly since the rise of fantasy football. Fans these days care a lot about how individual players perform than how teams perform.

The one thing I didn't like about the CTE scandal was how slimy the corporate world of big time football turned out to be. The NFL is no better than Philip Morris.

Last edited by asahi; 09-24-2017 at 11:03 AM.
  #112  
Old 09-24-2017, 11:06 AM
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I'm another anecdata point of that sort. Rooted for the Redskins for over 40 years, through Lombardi, George Allen, Jack Pardee, both Joe Gibbs eras, Petitbon, Spurrier, etc., but when I found out about CTE a few years back, that was the end of my football fandom.

Once you realize that you're watching the players' brains being slowly turned into a horrible mush, it's hard to keep on watching. Football, like any sporting activity, is supposed to be entertainment, and that's not a very entertaining thought.
I think I will continue to watch football even if it remains a violent game, which it most likely will. But I would hope that there are some steps taken in recent years that really place a higher priority on the welfare of the players after football. There needs to be some sort of agreement on medical testing, especially on the brain but also on joints, ligaments, arthritic risks, etc. It's pretty sad to realize that a guy like Jim Plunkett now can barely climb stairs.
  #113  
Old 09-24-2017, 11:50 AM
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Once you realize that you're watching the players' brains being slowly turned into a horrible mush, it's hard to keep on watching. Football, like any sporting activity, is supposed to be entertainment, and that's not a very entertaining thought.
I mean, to be fair, aren't the people in their la-z-boys chugging beer after beer and watching football all weekend doing at least as much damage to their brains, collectively? Why aren't they all working on something useful?
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Old 09-24-2017, 12:06 PM
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To be fair, keeping AB Inbev and Barcalounger in business is something useful. They're doing their bit to keep US factory employment up. It's hard work, but NFL fans are glad to pitch right in.
  #115  
Old 09-24-2017, 12:35 PM
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Can you, as a fan, even tell the difference?
Are you old enough to remember the 1987 NFL strike? The NFL played 3 games without nearly all of their regular players (save for a few who crossed the picket lines), instead fielding teams composed of new players who were willing to also cross the picket lines. Fans complained about the poorer quality of play, though that was (a) a situation in which team's entire rosters were replaced with inferior players overnight, and (b) fans *knew* that they were seeing inferior players. So, even if the quality of play wasn't actually any worse, fans were sensitized to it, and "saw" it.

If the quality of NFL players just gradually declines, it could be a "boiling a frog" sort of thing; maybe fans don't really see it, because it doesn't happen overnight.

On the other hand, while you're right that, to an extent, the players' performances are relative to each other, what you likely *would* lose are the displays of individual skill -- the quarterback who can drop a 50-yard spiral directly into his receiver's hands, the running back who nearly never fumbles, the kicker who makes nearly every extra point, the center who nearly never botches a snap exchange, etc. Those sorts of things aren't relative to the other players on the field, and could well be noticeable to an experienced, observant fan.
  #116  
Old 09-24-2017, 12:46 PM
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On the other hand, while you're right that, to an extent, the players' performances are relative to each other, what you likely *would* lose are the displays of individual skill -- the quarterback who can drop a 50-yard spiral directly into his receiver's hands, the running back who nearly never fumbles, the kicker who makes nearly every extra point, the center who nearly never botches a snap exchange, etc. Those sorts of things aren't relative to the other players on the field, and could well be noticeable to an experienced, observant fan.
I actually thing the opposite would happen. If the NFL has a smaller talent pool to pick from, they would end up having to take a lot of mediocre players. But there would be a few players who are just as good as the best players are today, and they'd be dominant. Kind of how in college football, some superstars play like they are in the NFL already and everyone else on the field is just a redshirt. I remember one Rose bowl game around 2005 (I am not a football fan, it was at someone's house) where a 'triple-threat' player, the team's QB, was on fourth down and decided to just get it done himself and he ninja jukes past all the defenders trying to stop him. This was the conclusion of a game full of dominant plays by the player, where he and the superstar on the opposing team were basically playing 1 v 1, and everyone else was just background.

It might be more interesting if there were more superstars. Today, if every athlete is near the limits of human performance anyways, nobody can stand out by as large of a factor.

Last edited by SamuelA; 09-24-2017 at 12:48 PM.
  #117  
Old 09-24-2017, 06:48 PM
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I mean, to be fair, aren't the people in their la-z-boys chugging beer after beer and watching football all weekend doing at least as much damage to their brains, collectively? Why aren't they all working on something useful?
I hope that's meant facetiously, because to work as a serious comparison, "collectively" has to do more heavy lifting than it can really handle.
  #118  
Old 09-24-2017, 06:57 PM
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I think I will continue to watch football even if it remains a violent game, which it most likely will. But I would hope that there are some steps taken in recent years that really place a higher priority on the welfare of the players after football. There needs to be some sort of agreement on medical testing, especially on the brain but also on joints, ligaments, arthritic risks, etc. It's pretty sad to realize that a guy like Jim Plunkett now can barely climb stairs.
Football's always been a violent game, but before CTE, the risks have always been visible. It's reasonable for an adult to say, "I'll trade my ability to climb stairs when I'm 65 for a chance at a few years of glory."

But the brain damage thing is a whole different kind of tradeoff. It's both harder to see and far more serious. Being barely able to walk is one thing; losing your very self makes that look trivial by comparison. My father-in-law can barely walk, and I'm sure he can't do stairs anymore. But he's still got his own self, and so does Jim Plunkett. But players who've been seriously afflicted by CTE, they really don't anymore. It's pretty horrible shit.
  #119  
Old 09-24-2017, 07:08 PM
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But the brain damage thing is a whole different kind of tradeoff. It's both harder to see and far more serious. Being barely able to walk is one thing; losing your very self makes that look trivial by comparison.
Absolutely agreed. What makes it even more horrible, for the former players who are now developing it, is that the NFL downplayed the risks for years, and actively fought against the doctors and scientists, like Bennet Omalu, who were trying to uncover the problem.

So, we have thousands of former NFL players (as well as those who only played the game in college or high school) who are now developing cognitive problems, or will in the future, and had no idea, at the time that they played, that choosing to play football likely elevated their risk to develop these problems.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 09-24-2017 at 07:09 PM.
  #120  
Old 09-24-2017, 08:46 PM
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Does it really change things? From Cris Carter, all-pro player and sports announcer

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Despite it all, Carter said he wouldn’t undo his decision to dedicate his life to football, had any information about CTE been available when he was younger.

“I wouldn’t change a thing,” he said. “Football gave me a sense of purpose. It gave me a sense of me. There’s not a whole bunch of options in America for a black man. But sports gives you that opportunity. … So where would my life be without football? I don’t know. And I hate to think about. … So for me, I still encourage young people. The game is safer now than it’s ever been.”
and I'm sure he's not alone in these sentiments.

mc
  #121  
Old 09-24-2017, 09:49 PM
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Does it really change things? From Cris Carter, all-pro player and sports announcer



and I'm sure he's not alone in these sentiments.
For some players, it certainly doesn't / won't. But, there've already been several star players who have decided to retire early (such as 49ers linebacker Chris Borland), and specifically cited concerns about CTE as why. I suspect that that'll continue, but what'll be more invisible to us are the kids who don't ever even start playing.

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  #122  
Old 09-24-2017, 10:38 PM
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  #123  
Old 09-24-2017, 11:24 PM
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I hate watching NFL because too damn many commercials and everything has a sponsor. I was also reading how many NFL games now, especially those during the week, have low attendance.
  #124  
Old 09-25-2017, 07:33 AM
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Agree NFL is unwatchable without pre-recording the show then replaying while zapping all the commercials. I wonder how long before some agreement between sponsors and streaming sources makes that impossible for all (non-bootleg) shows?
  #125  
Old 09-25-2017, 11:27 AM
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I actually thing the opposite would happen. If the NFL has a smaller talent pool to pick from, they would end up having to take a lot of mediocre players. But there would be a few players who are just as good as the best players are today, and they'd be dominant. Kind of how in college football, some superstars play like they are in the NFL already and everyone else on the field is just a redshirt. I remember one Rose bowl game around 2005 (I am not a football fan, it was at someone's house) where a 'triple-threat' player, the team's QB, was on fourth down and decided to just get it done himself and he ninja jukes past all the defenders trying to stop him. This was the conclusion of a game full of dominant plays by the player, where he and the superstar on the opposing team were basically playing 1 v 1, and everyone else was just background.

It might be more interesting if there were more superstars. Today, if every athlete is near the limits of human performance anyways, nobody can stand out by as large of a factor.
I suspect that the Rose Bowl player you're thinking of was Texas QB Vince Young, who had a huge game in the 2006 Rose Bowl.

Referring back to the minor-league arena football team for which I briefly worked -- the season before I worked with them, their quarterback was a guy named Juice Williams. Williams had been a reasonably successful player at the University of Illinois, but never even had more than a tryout in the NFL. But, in the talent pool of a minor-league arena team (where most of the players had been at Division II or III schools), he was head and shoulders better than anyone else. My friend, who had been the statistician for the team that year, said it was like watching a high school senior playing against 8th graders.

My understanding is that the early days of the NFL were sort of like that -- there were a few extremely talented players, who were clearly far better than most of their opposition (such as Ernie Nevers or Don Hutson), and who dominated the games in which they played. Maybe you're right, maybe the NFL becomes more like that.

But, part of the conceit of the current NFL is the idea of parity, and that "on any given Sunday, any team can beat any other team." Whether that's true or not is another issue -- ask any Browns fan. But, that's a matter of poor management of some teams more than any fundamental structural flaw in how the league is set up. If the league winds up in a place where there are a few dominant players, then maybe it's a fun game to watch if you're a fan of those players' teams, but if your team isn't fortunate enough to have one of them, it becomes an exercise in futility.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 09-25-2017 at 11:28 AM.
  #126  
Old 09-25-2017, 11:43 AM
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Back to concussions: Forbes has a brand new article out about the possibility of detecting CTE while people are still alive, as opposed to the current situation where CTE can only be discovered after death.
  #127  
Old 09-26-2017, 11:13 AM
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Players of any professional sport need to realize, yes its a game but also, its a product.

It's entertainment. Yes, they play football but the cheerleaders, the mascot, the half time entertainment, the music, and yes, the national anthem are all part of that entertainment. That being their product has to compete with other entertainments and the money from the fans.
  #128  
Old 09-26-2017, 11:15 AM
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I suspect that the Rose Bowl player you're thinking of was Texas QB Vince Young, who had a huge game in the 2006 Rose Bowl.

Referring back to the minor-league arena football team for which I briefly worked -- the season before I worked with them, their quarterback was a guy named Juice Williams. Williams had been a reasonably successful player at the University of Illinois, but never even had more than a tryout in the NFL. But, in the talent pool of a minor-league arena team (where most of the players had been at Division II or III schools), he was head and shoulders better than anyone else. My friend, who had been the statistician for the team that year, said it was like watching a high school senior playing against 8th graders.

My understanding is that the early days of the NFL were sort of like that -- there were a few extremely talented players, who were clearly far better than most of their opposition (such as Ernie Nevers or Don Hutson), and who dominated the games in which they played. Maybe you're right, maybe the NFL becomes more like that.

But, part of the conceit of the current NFL is the idea of parity, and that "on any given Sunday, any team can beat any other team." Whether that's true or not is another issue -- ask any Browns fan. But, that's a matter of poor management of some teams more than any fundamental structural flaw in how the league is set up. If the league winds up in a place where there are a few dominant players, then maybe it's a fun game to watch if you're a fan of those players' teams, but if your team isn't fortunate enough to have one of them, it becomes an exercise in futility.
You know one BIG problem, the price of victory.

Here in Kansas City for years the KC Chiefs really sucked. Then years ago they got better, more fans went to the games and guess what? The ticket prices shot up! So that's the price a fan has to pay when their team does well. So sometimes your hoping your team loses.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:26 AM
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You know one BIG problem, the price of victory.

Here in Kansas City for years the KC Chiefs really sucked. Then years ago they got better, more fans went to the games and guess what? The ticket prices shot up! So that's the price a fan has to pay when their team does well. So sometimes your hoping your team loses.
Anything to say about this new article about the topic of concussions?
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:33 PM
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Anything to say about this new article about the topic of concussions?
Perhaps there would be some comment if you linked to a reputable site--not a garbage site like Forbes.
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:45 PM
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Perhaps there would be some comment if you linked to a reputable site--not a garbage site like Forbes.
What in that cite was garbage?
edited to add: Is The Atlantic also a garbage site?

Last edited by Czarcasm; 09-26-2017 at 12:47 PM.
  #132  
Old 12-21-2018, 04:12 PM
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Updating this thread here is a scientific medical study of concussions in high school football players:

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Of 863 youth followed (996 player-seasons), 51 sustained a football-related concussion, for an athlete-level incidence of 5.1% per season. Youth with history of concussion had a 2-fold increased risk for sustaining an incident concussion (OR, 2.2; 95% CI, 1.1-4.8). Youth with depression had a 5-fold increased risk of concussion (OR, 5.6; 95% CI, 1.7-18.8). After a concussion, 50% of athletes returned to school by 3 days, 50% returned to sport by 13 days, and 50% returned to a baseline level of symptoms by 3 weeks.
https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-...586-5/fulltext
  #133  
Old 01-07-2019, 04:04 PM
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Concussion concerns prompt more Badgers players to leave football:
University of Wisconsin’s Austin Ramesh, Walker Williams and Jake Whalen quit football after brain injuries; ‘I’m gonna have CTE — I just know it,’ Williams says
Quote:
In all, UW-Madison student-athletes were diagnosed with 137 concussions from 2014 to 2018, according to records from an ongoing NCAA and U.S. Department of Defense concussion study obtained by the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism under the state Open Records Law. In all, UW-Madison student-athletes were diagnosed with 137 concussions from 2014 to 2018, according to records from an ongoing NCAA and U.S. Department of Defense concussion study obtained by the Wisconsin Center for Investigative Journalism under the state Open Records Law.
https://www.wisconsinwatch.org/2018/...eave-football/
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