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  #901  
Old 06-22-2014, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
they had a drone flying in real time to map out hostile forces. That's more prep work than any assault in WW-II ever had to work with. But by all means start a thread on what you know given your posts on how hard it was to launch an airplane.
OMG, you're still defending it. This is amazing.

Just let it be known, that Magiver's plan, for Benghazi, was to drop commandos on motorcycles into the city, and then... presumably shoot badguys while doing wheelies. Aside from the fact that they possibly didn't have bikes on pallets ready to go, the utter, vapid stupidity of that plan is staggering. No intel, no knowledge of where in the city is safe, pallets of bikes landing on rooftops or in walled compounds, no attack plan, it's nighttime and most of the motorcycle ninjas can't read the street signs, randomly driving around the city, listening to some drone pilot trying to give real time directions to a dozen motorcycles...

If we were stupid enough as a country to enact your plan, we'd have a bunch of deal spec-ops guys and nothing to show for it.


Quote:
all you have to do is prove it.
No, all he has to do is prove it. He has a history of lying and inventing stories. And he is making the claim. I don't have to prove something he says is not true, he has to prove that it is true.

That's how this works. When you make a claim, you bring evidence. Actual journalists have reputations to put on the line, but Klein has squandered his.

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Obama ran a campaign touting transparency. The Benghazi investigation was the exact opposite of transparency. It is a red flag that he's hiding something.
No, it has been investigated several times, and the questions have been answered. And only those with an axe to grind are still suspicious.
  #902  
Old 06-22-2014, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
Prove he's wrong. It's already been shown the protest story was a deliberate lie.
He's a pathological liar with no credibility, even among conservative journalists. I will not spend even ten seconds trying to disprove any claim of his. Why you believe anything he says is the actual issue here.

If Jayson Blair claimed two sources that Bush approved a false-flag operation that brought down the Twin Towers, how much effort would you put into debunking that claim? Your double standards are perfectly clear: you don't believe anything the times prints because of Blair, but you'll regurgitate anything from any whacko source as long as it plays to your own political agenda.

Do you not worry that people will begin (heh) to take your own assertions with the same lack of credibility as virtually everyone else (conservatives included) takes Edward Klein's?
  #903  
Old 06-22-2014, 02:29 PM
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Wow.
If you REALLY want to know how I feel (although it won't, historically, stop you and your partners in insanity from believing all of the counterfactual bullshit you want to believe), I think the majority of modern right-wingers/tea partiers/Republicans ought to be rounded up and committed to an asylum, because they're mostly completely insane and a danger to themselves and others. Maybe we can convert South Carolina...the traditional saying is that it's too big for an insane asylum, but if we manage to catch enough of you crazy people...
  #904  
Old 06-22-2014, 02:34 PM
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Prove he's wrong. It's already been shown the protest story was a deliberate lie.
No, it hasn't. Honestly, it hasn't. There was confusion early in the process and they weren't sure. You have an inept and ignorant view of intelligence gathering where you think it's easier than it is. You think a drone can look at night from miles away and just tell to everyone's satisfaction that there wasn't a protest at a battle site 90 minutes earlier. That's ignorant. People went over that feed frame by frame. It was processed and enhanced over days and weeks. You assume that just looking at the screen, some analyst said, in real time, "Wait, there was no protest here, look no signs on the ground!"

As for Klein, you're supporting a liar, who just so happens to be telling you what you want to hear.

Don't you see how bad that is? If you can't make your case without drivel from guys like Klein, maybe your case can't be made?

You're assuming you're right and flailing around for whatever you can find to justify your position. The fact is, you're wrong, which is why you have nothing but unrelated attacks, and conspiracy theories from known liars to support your position.
  #905  
Old 06-22-2014, 02:40 PM
Magiver Magiver is offline
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OMG, you're still defending it. This is amazing.

Just let it be known, that Magiver's plan, for Benghazi, was to drop commandos on motorcycles into the city, and then... presumably shoot badguys while doing wheelies. Aside from the fact that they possibly didn't have bikes on pallets ready to go, the utter, vapid stupidity of that plan is staggering. No intel, no knowledge of where in the city is safe, pallets of bikes landing on rooftops or in walled compounds, no attack plan, it's nighttime and most of the motorcycle ninjas can't read the street signs, randomly driving around the city, listening to some drone pilot trying to give real time directions to a dozen motorcycles...
OH hell no. You're the one who said it took hrs to launch an airplane when in reality it's minutes. You said we didn't have any way of inserting equipment. I cited the type of equipment available for rapid deployment. You said we couldn't parachute stuff in because we don't know where it would land. I cited GPS driven chute systems. I cited the standard issue stuff that is in the public domain of knowledge. Nothing hi-tech. Do you think people who plan rapid deployments using motorcycles and rubber boats and GPS chute system are stupid?

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Originally Posted by Lobohan View Post
If we were stupid enough as a country to enact your plan, we'd have a bunch of deal spec-ops guys and nothing to show for it.
you know what we call people who show up weeks later after an attack to risk their lives? The Army. The people who go in when time is an issue are those in the various special force groups. This is what they train for.

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Originally Posted by Lobohan View Post
No, all he has to do is prove it. He has a history of lying and inventing stories. And he is making the claim. I don't have to prove something he says is not true, he has to prove that it is true.

That's how this works. When you make a claim, you bring evidence. Actual journalists have reputations to put on the line, but Klein has squandered his.
yes, that's how it works, when you claim there's a protest, PROVE IT. This thread is about Benghazi and the lie that was perpetrated over it.
  #906  
Old 06-22-2014, 02:43 PM
Magiver Magiver is offline
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As for Klein, you're supporting a liar, who just so happens to be telling you what you want to hear.
Prove him wrong.
  #907  
Old 06-22-2014, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
Prove him wrong.
He has a history of being dishonest. Prove him right.

That you can't understand this very simple concept shows why you believe the rubbish you do.
  #908  
Old 06-22-2014, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
Prove him wrong.
So it is your position that you trust pathological liars until they are proven incorrect? This is what you are posting on the Internet, and the type of argument you want people to associate with you?
  #909  
Old 06-22-2014, 03:05 PM
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OH hell no. You're the one who said it took hrs to launch an airplane when in reality it's minutes..
How many minutes do you think it took to put together the Abu Khatallah mission?
  #910  
Old 06-22-2014, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Magiver View Post

“Hillary was stunned when she heard the president talk about the Benghazi attack,” one of her top legal advisers said in an interview. “Obama wanted her to say that the attack had been a spontaneous demonstration triggered by an obscure video on the Internet that demeaned the Prophet Mohammed.”
There was ample evidence right after the attacks that the video played a significant role in them. Why won't you address this fact, that has been cited by myself and others in this thread?
  #911  
Old 06-22-2014, 07:34 PM
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OH hell no. You're the one who said it took hrs to launch an airplane when in reality it's minutes. You said we didn't have any way of inserting equipment. I cited the type of equipment available for rapid deployment. You said we couldn't parachute stuff in because we don't know where it would land. I cited GPS driven chute systems. I cited the standard issue stuff that is in the public domain of knowledge. Nothing hi-tech. Do you think people who plan rapid deployments using motorcycles and rubber boats and GPS chute system are stupid?

you know what we call people who show up weeks later after an attack to risk their lives? The Army. The people who go in when time is an issue are those in the various special force groups. This is what they train for.

yes, that's how it works, when you claim there's a protest, PROVE IT. This thread is about Benghazi and the lie that was perpetrated over it.
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OH hell no. You're the one who said it took hrs to launch an airplane when in reality it's minutes.
Again, simplistic and goofy. It takes hours to outfit a special operations raid. Not counting the days or weeks of intelligence gathering and training. You think this is easy and not necessary because you don't appreciate the complexity.

Quote:
You said we didn't have any way of inserting equipment. I cited the type of equipment available for rapid deployment. You said we couldn't parachute stuff in because we don't know where it would land. I cited GPS driven chute systems. I cited the standard issue stuff that is in the public domain of knowledge. Nothing hi-tech. Do you think people who plan rapid deployments using motorcycles and rubber boats and GPS chute system are stupid?
I'm not arguing that it was impossible, I'm arguing that it's utterly stupid. Dropping motorcycles into a hostile city is fucking silly. Blundering around that city, while getting shot at, so that you can pack survivors out on your motorcycles is stupid. Your whole position would make the worst GI Joe episode of all time.

Quote:
you know what we call people who show up weeks later after an attack to risk their lives? The Army. The people who go in when time is an issue are those in the various special force groups. This is what they train for.
They don't train to have their lives thrown away because you don't know what you're talking about.

Quote:
yes, that's how it works, when you claim there's a protest, PROVE IT. This thread is about Benghazi and the lie that was perpetrated over it.
They thought there was a protest at first. Because the world is more complicated than you give it credit for. Your assertion that the one drone, miles away, gave all the info they'd need to rule out a protest, in real time, is again, the result of not understanding how complex the world is.

And lets be clear, this thread is about the RW delusions and misunderstandings about Benghazi, of which you are the perfect example.
  #912  
Old 06-22-2014, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead View Post
There was ample evidence right after the attacks that the video played a significant role in them. Why won't you address this fact, that has been cited by myself and others in this thread?
Because ideology can be a force field that keeps unwanted facts out.
  #913  
Old 06-23-2014, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead View Post
There was ample evidence right after the attacks that the video played a significant role in them. Why won't you address this fact, that has been cited by myself and others in this thread?
no, there isn't any evidence it was anything other than a direct attack.
  #914  
Old 06-23-2014, 02:29 AM
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Again, simplistic and goofy. It takes hours to outfit a special operations raid. Not counting the days or weeks of intelligence gathering and training. You think this is easy and not necessary because you don't appreciate the complexity.
That's pure nonsense. If the WH comes under attack the response is not going to be hours while people formulate a strategy. for that matter if a school comes under attack they will get an immediate response. From regular police who have no special operations training.

Compared to virtually any combat situation in the history of the United States military this was a goldmine of advantage favoring US troops. We've mapped every square inch of the planet already which creates exact coordinates for gps weapons. We've photographed every square inch of the of the planet which provides the exact layout of any city down to the resolution of a something the size of a car. We had a drone in place to oversee the battlefield in real time.

It was never a question of if special troops could be inserted effectively. It was a matter of doing it in a timely manner. Without the foreknowledge of when this would end the proper response was to send in what we had available in the area.
  #915  
Old 06-23-2014, 02:49 AM
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That's pure nonsense. If the WH comes under attack the response is not going to be hours while people formulate a strategy. for that matter if a school comes under attack they will get an immediate response. From regular police who have no special operations training.
No, they aren't the same.

Please address this:
  • The White House is in America.
  • The White House is in an American controlled city.
  • The White House is located in a city where the defenders would have strong operational knowledge of the city and how to navigate it.
  • The White House has people on standby to defend it at all times.
  • The White House is not in a city where enemies control large sections of it.
  • The insertion of the defenders into the proximity of the White House is unlikely to involve SAMs.
  • The White House is not located in sovereign country that we would violate the airspace of when attempting to insert defenders.
  • The White House is subject to a greater level of operational intelligence than Benghazi.

The fact that you even made that argument should make you feel ashamed. It's drivel, utter nonsense and outright laughable.

Quote:
Compared to virtually any combat situation in the history of the United States military this was a goldmine of advantage favoring US troops.
No, that is a profoundly stupid statement. We don't move troops into other countries with no preparation or intelligence. And your assertion is, again, utterly nonsensical.

Quote:
We've mapped every square inch of the planet already which creates exact coordinates for gps weapons. We've photographed every square inch of the of the planet which provides the exact layout of any city down to the resolution of a something the size of a car. We had a drone in place to oversee the battlefield in real time.
You again have a cartoonish view of our capabilities. GPS doesn't let you magically see which building guys are shooting out of. A drone doesn't magically let you have operational awareness of who is where, who is friendly, who is hostile and is subject to the chaos and fog of war. Your playing Contra as a child doesn't make you a general. Real experts have said you're full of shit. Real experts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoD Gates
“To send some small number of special forces or other troops in without knowing what the environment is, without knowing what the threat is, without having any intelligence in terms of what is actually going on on the ground, I think, would have been very dangerous,” said Gates in an interview aired on CBS’s “Face the Nation.”
“Personally, I would not have approved that because we just don't it's sort of a cartoonish impression of military capabilities and military forces,” he continued. “The one thing that our forces are noted for is planning and preparation before we send people in harm's way. And there just wasn't time to do that.”
Gates thinks you're full of shit and have a cartoonish view of how the military works. End of Line.

Quote:
It was never a question of if special troops could be inserted effectively. It was a matter of doing it in a timely manner. Without the foreknowledge of when this would end the proper response was to send in what we had available in the area.
No, it would be stupid. You are advocating a stance that would get people killed for no reason. Which you've been shown before.

Last edited by Lobohan; 06-23-2014 at 02:52 AM.
  #916  
Old 06-23-2014, 07:33 AM
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My god Magiver's 'knowledge' of our military capabilities is terrible. It's as if we put a 10 year old in charge whose knowledge of the military came entirely from watching old GI Joe cartoons.
  #917  
Old 06-23-2014, 07:36 AM
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Without the foreknowledge of when this would end the proper response was to send in what we had available in the area.
This is not how military command and control works. When something bad happens, the leadership doesn't just pull the trigger and 'send in what we have available'. We don't want to make a bad situation worse -- ten Rangers and a helicopter may be available, but if we don't do our homework and take the time to really understand what's happening, we could just be adding ten casualties and a downed helicopter.
  #918  
Old 06-23-2014, 09:35 AM
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It was never a question of if special troops could be inserted effectively. It was a matter of doing it in a timely manner. Without the foreknowledge of when this would end the proper response was to send in what we had available in the area.
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
This is not how military command and control works. When something bad happens, the leadership doesn't just pull the trigger and 'send in what we have available'. We don't want to make a bad situation worse -- ten Rangers and a helicopter may be available, but if we don't do our homework and take the time to really understand what's happening, we could just be adding ten casualties and a downed helicopter.
He's been told this before, so I doubt one more go-round will make any difference, but what Magiver is talking about is exactly what was done. No less than three special forces teams were ordered to prepare to deploy to Libya: one from Fort Bragg, one from Spain (which arrived in Tripoli after the evacuation from Benghazi), and one from Croatia (which arrived at a base in Italy an hour before the team from Spain reached Tripoli). As it happens, because of physics, they arrived after the consulate staff had been evacuated. Furthermore, a team from Tripoli flew to Benghazi and assisted in the evacuation. Magiver is somehow able to criticize the government for doing exactly what he's saying they should have done.
  #919  
Old 06-23-2014, 09:42 AM
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Doesn't count. They didn't parachute in on motorcycles.
  #920  
Old 06-23-2014, 10:32 AM
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I don't see reports of unarmed F-16s doing low-alt, fuel-less flybys to scare the crowd into submission either. Which obviously means the administration might as well have shot Ambassador Stevens and Vile Rat themselves.
  #921  
Old 06-23-2014, 01:58 PM
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Walter.
You gotta be fairly old to get that reference.


So when is this super duper latest and greatest Benghazi committee going to start meeting? October 2016? And what happens when they get done? Another committee? More questions?
How old is "fairly old"? I feel a lot older than I am and there's nothing fair about it.

I predict there will be (at least) three Benghazi investigations. The trial of Ahmed Abu Khattala, the Select Committee, and the Susan "I should sleep late on Sunday morning" Rice's official Quija Board exonerations of all Sec of State things that Hillary couldn't possibly have been involved with just because she was Sec of State.

Or

A Tuesday. I don't know which Tuesday but I'll go with a Tuesday.
  #922  
Old 06-23-2014, 02:03 PM
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Doesn't count. They didn't parachute in on motorcycles.
Wouldn't that scare the motorcycle? No, wait, wrong joke/punch line. That would scare a blind person's dog. Never mind. Carry on.
  #923  
Old 07-11-2014, 11:58 PM
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Anyone want to talk about the latest testimony released to the public?
Quote:
Two of the four U.S. deaths in Benghazi might have been prevented, military leaders say, if commanders had known more about the intensity of the sporadic gunfire directed at the CIA facility where Americans had taken refuge and had pressed to get a rescue team there faster.

Senior military leaders have told Congress in closed-door testimony that after the first attack on the main U.S. diplomatic compound on Sept. 11, 2012, they thought the fighting had subsided and the Americans who had fled to the CIA base about a mile away were safe. In fact, they were facing intermittent small arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades around midnight and had returned fire. Then the attackers dispersed.

Hours later, at first light, an 11-minute mortar and rocket-propelled grenade attack slammed into the CIA annex, killing security contractors Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty.

In hindsight, retired Gen. Carter Ham, then head of the U.S. military command in Africa, said he would have pressed Libyan contacts in the defense ministry and other officials to help speed up the evacuation of Americans from Benghazi.

Isn't that what this whole thing is about, tho: hindsight? It seems like a bunch of angry Monday morning quarterbacks howling incoherently and inchoately (and incessantly).
  #924  
Old 08-04-2014, 12:55 PM
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Not good news for the All Things Benghazi hearings:
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The House Intelligence Committee, led by Republicans, has concluded that there was no deliberate wrongdoing by the Obama administration in the 2012 attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi ...

-- Intelligence agencies were "warned about an increased threat environment, but did not have specific tactical warning of an attack before it happened."

-- "A mixed group of individuals, including those associated with al Qaeda, (Moammar) Khadafy loyalists and other Libyan militias, participated in the attack."

-- "There was no 'stand-down order' given to American personnel attempting to offer assistance that evening, no illegal activity or illegal arms transfers occurring by U.S. personnel in Benghazi, and no American was left behind."

-- The administration's process for developing "talking points" was "flawed, but the talking points reflected the conflicting intelligence assessments in the days immediately following the crisis."
Anybody think this will stop them? Yeah, I didn't think so either.
  #925  
Old 08-04-2014, 01:52 PM
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Its obvious that "They" have gotten to the committee members.

What we really need is another committee.
  #926  
Old 11-21-2014, 06:35 PM
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For those who do believe that there was an administration cover-up surrounding the 2012 attacks in Benghazi, what piece(s) of information and/or evidence could theoretically change your mind, if such information/evidence were to surface?
Republicans find no wrongdoing by Obama administration
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WASHINGTON (AP) — A two-year investigation by the Republican-controlled House Intelligence Committee has found that the CIA and the military acted properly in responding to the 2012 attack on a U.S. diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya, and asserted no wrongdoing by Obama administration appointees.
  #927  
Old 11-21-2014, 08:18 PM
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Who is Ben Ghazi? Didn't he work with John Cassavetes a lot?
  #928  
Old 11-21-2014, 08:25 PM
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So, Magiver, how's this sit with you?
  #929  
Old 11-21-2014, 08:46 PM
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Shit! Just when I was about to sell my prototype parasail mopeds to the Pentagon! Undercut the whole market.
  #930  
Old 11-21-2014, 09:03 PM
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Shit! Just when I was about to sell my prototype parasail mopeds to the Pentagon! Undercut the whole market.
Sorry, too late, they've been in service since the early '80s. As this documentary video shows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLwe7UqUX7k
  #931  
Old 11-21-2014, 09:06 PM
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So, Magiver, how's this sit with you?
I bet it's like a bunch of fuel starved, unarmed F16s buzzing his heart.
  #932  
Old 11-21-2014, 10:00 PM
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I bet it's like a bunch of fuel starved, unarmed F16s buzzing his heart.
[Scene: Exterior shot of the White House. Cut to fast moving War Room. ]

General McToughnuts: We need to save those folk.
Floridly Homosexual Liberal: We should just see if it'll blow over. Hah!
GMT: No, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna divert unarmed F16s and buzz them over the battlefield. They'll melt like butter.
FHL: You mean over the protest.
GMT: (Ignoring him) Time on target, Liberal?
FHL:Five minutes, because Jet Planes, sir.
GMT: [Steeples fingers] We'll save you, boys.
FHL: But that's past the red line, the jets won't be able to make it back! And there's no friendly LZs in range!!11 JUST LET THEM DIE!!1
GMT: They're gonna ditch in the desert, we don't need them to get back.

[Scene Cuts, picks up with an exterior shot of a gleaming jet flying over the Libyan desert. The camera pans around and under the jet and we see a motorcycle attached to a hardpoint under each wing]
  #933  
Old 11-21-2014, 10:27 PM
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Well, time to start another investigation then!
  #934  
Old 11-21-2014, 10:52 PM
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Well, time to start another investigation then!
Already in progress. Representative Gowdy's Flying Super Select Clown Car Circus is on deck and ready.
  #935  
Old 11-21-2014, 11:14 PM
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And they're so proud of their diligent work that they released the news at 6:00 p.m. on a Friday so we'd have all weekend to talk about it.
  #936  
Old 11-21-2014, 11:30 PM
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Ben = Vince

Ghazi = Foster
  #937  
Old 11-21-2014, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Lobohan View Post
Sorry, too late, they've been in service since the early '80s. As this documentary video shows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLwe7UqUX7k
Holy crap! I thought I'd seen every bad 80s B movie, but I guess I was wrong!
  #938  
Old 11-21-2014, 11:41 PM
Ibn Warraq Ibn Warraq is offline
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And they're so proud of their diligent work that they released the news at 6:00 p.m. on a Friday so we'd have all weekend to talk about it.
I guarantee they will still be screaming about "Benghazi!!!" right up until election night 2016 if Hillary is the nominee.

Or at least the hardcore base who've been fed that propaganda and convinced they're the majority.

The smart Republicans like Karl Rove etc. are doing everything they can to stuff Frankenstein's Monster back in his box.
  #939  
Old 11-22-2014, 04:23 AM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Well, time to start another investigation then!
Sadly, Issa was replaced as committee chairman.
  #940  
Old 11-22-2014, 10:04 AM
C3 C3 is offline
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Well, time to start another investigation then!
No worries! The article says this was the seventh investigation and an eighth is scheduled for May! Phew! They'll get to the bottom of this right up until November 8, 2016!
  #941  
Old 11-22-2014, 05:08 PM
Johnny L.A. Johnny L.A. is online now
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Originally Posted by Ibn Warraq View Post
I guarantee they will still be screaming about "Benghazi!!!" right up until election night 2016 if Hillary is the nominee.
Fox News story on House Benghazi report ignores the entire report
Quote:
You can read the whole Fox story for yourselves. Nowhere in it does it say anything about the report's main findings regarding a lack of wrongdoing by the Administration or the State Department, as reported not only by the AP but by NPR, ("House Panel Finds 'No Intelligence Failure' Before Benghazi Attack"), CNN ("Republican-led report debunks Benghazi theories and accusations"), the Wall Street Journal ("House Report Finds No Attempt to Mislead Public Over Benghazi"), and every other article on the report I could find. Oh, and Fox News' TV coverage of the report also ignored the report, unsurprisingly.

If this isn't journalistic malpractice by Fox News, I don't know what is. Furthermore, this is just another example of how Fox News viewers come to believe lies to be the truth.
  #942  
Old 11-22-2014, 06:24 PM
TonySinclair TonySinclair is offline
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Dang, I lost my bet. I predicted they wouldn't mention the report at all.
  #943  
Old 11-23-2014, 02:16 PM
Johnny L.A. Johnny L.A. is online now
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Sen. Lindsey Graham: GOP-led Benghazi report is 'full of crap'

Of course, Tea Party United calls House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers (R-MI) a RINO.
  #944  
Old 11-25-2014, 09:10 AM
Donald Rump Donald Rump is offline
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Uh-oh. The intrepid reporters at World News Daily have uncovered not one, not two, but five "significant problems" with the House Intelligence Committee report. Namely:

1. The House report calls the facility a "Temporary Mission Facility," whereas it was previously labeled a "U.S. Special Mission." Benghazi!
2. The House report mentions the Chris Stevens was to attend a ceremony in Benghazi establishing a new American Corner at a local Benghazi school. But this was not previously reported. Benghazi!

And on and on.

Hopefully Howdy Gowdy will get to the bottom of it post haste. Benghazi!
  #945  
Old 11-26-2014, 02:52 PM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is offline
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No worries! The article says this was the seventh investigation and an eighth is scheduled for May! Phew! They'll get to the bottom of this right up until November 8, 2016!
They should just save themselves a little time and go ahead and schedule nine, ten, eleven, twelve, and thirteen right now.
  #946  
Old 01-03-2019, 05:16 PM
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JohnT JohnT is online now
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Trey Gowdy leaves Congress a miserable failure, a man who left no legacy, accomplished nothing, and will be forgotten as soon as we can wash his stink out of his old office.
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