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  #751  
Old 04-13-2018, 05:16 PM
Peter Morris Peter Morris is online now
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Is it worthwhile buying Capable level 4? Cost is 100c Helium.

It gives access to Fluffy #4. Description: Corrupt and healthy enemies in active spires have a 50% chance to be missing their special abilities.

Seems a pretty high price for a fairly trivial advantage. At my current level I only do 2 spires per run. It will be quite a while before I reach Spire 3. And half the enemies will be easier to beat. Well, I can beat them already.

Is it as pointless as it appears? Or am I missing something?
  #752  
Old 04-13-2018, 05:26 PM
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The main thing is that Fluffy's levels give damage bonuses in addition to the special abilities, and you can only gain experience towards a level if you have the corresponding level of Capable. Leveling Fluffy up is an important form of progression, so yeah, you want to be doing that. Whether you want to be doing it right now or hold off until you have more helium, I can't say.
  #753  
Old 04-13-2018, 07:33 PM
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... I can get from the start of a run to Spire in less than a day (really only 4-5 hours if I don't have to sleep). Right now I'm just barely making it past zone 60 of Spire, though, and I feel like in a few more runs of pumping up Toughness II and Power II, plus some Motivation II to make the grinding go quicker, I'll be able to unlock Carpentry II and get enough Coordinations to power through (right now I've still got 42 inaccessible coordinations when I reach Spire.) I've managed to beat the 215 Bionic Wonderland, and on my current run I'm pushing to beat 220 so I can get that next achievement bonus.

Anything else I should be doing at this stage? Some of the guides I'm reading say my block should be strong enough to absorb most of the damage I'm taking, but that just hasn't happened for me. I can afford about 700 gyms by the time I reach Spire and the block I get out of that is less than a thousandth of the enemy damage. Should I be investing more in lumberjacks than the 70B I do right now?
It's been a few weeks, so I don't know how relevant this will still be for you.

To beat the Spire, you're going to need the prestiges from zones 201-205, and maybe even from zones 211-215. Used to be, the only way to get those was to beat the Bionic level 215 before beating the Spire. Now you've unlock Extra Zone maps at zone 210, which helps a lot.

You're still going to need a LOT of Coordinated perk until you only have around 21 unused levels of Coordination. And ya, Carpentry II will help a lot with that.

I think you already have plenty of gyms. Build enough to survive Bionic 215 with no deaths, so that you can set your breed timer to a couple hours while grinding. But after that they're not so useful in the Spire itself. As I recall, I was up to 660 gyms when I'd reach the Spire and up to 680 after grinding overnight for metal and prestiges. At this stage it's far more important to have enough Attack and Health
  #754  
Old 04-13-2018, 09:33 PM
Smapti Smapti is offline
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In my latest run I managed to clear zone 80 and pick up Carpentry II. I'm at 41 unused coordinations as of that run - I haven't been able to clear BW 215 from the Spire yet, but hopefully a few more coordinations will get me there.
  #755  
Old 04-13-2018, 10:57 PM
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The main thing is that Fluffy's levels give damage bonuses in addition to the special abilities, and you can only gain experience towards a level if you have the corresponding level of Capable. Leveling Fluffy up is an important form of progression, so yeah, you want to be doing that. Whether you want to be doing it right now or hold off until you have more helium, I can't say.
More specifically, a level 4 evolution 0 fluffy gives +100% damage compared to +60%, stacking a net +25% overall damage. There's going to be a tradeoff where you might not want to spend a huge percentage of your helium for +25% overall boost in damage, but it's quite significant.
  #756  
Old 04-16-2018, 03:26 AM
Smapti Smapti is offline
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Just got my first ethereal heirloom! Woo!

So, post-Spire players; what's your strategy for gigastations? What I've been doing is building as many warpstations and collectors as I can until I first start having unused coordinations before I use my first one, and then use another one as soon as I've built three warpstations more than I had when I used that one before I use the next one. Is there a more efficient way to boost my population?
  #757  
Old 04-16-2018, 07:38 PM
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Just got my first ethereal heirloom! Woo!

So, post-Spire players; what's your strategy for gigastations? What I've been doing is building as many warpstations and collectors as I can until I first start having unused coordinations before I use my first one, and then use another one as soon as I've built three warpstations more than I had when I used that one before I use the next one. Is there a more efficient way to boost my population?
What you're doing is right on target. If you keep track, you'll probably find that you're first giga is being built at about the same time each run. Let's say it's after 30 warpstations. Increasing by 3 each time would be a 30/3 strategy. (If you were increasing by 2, it'd be a 30/2, etc.) It's an easy way to keep track of your progress and strategy, and the last gigas are really the only ones that matter - so you'll likely tweak it in the endgame of each run anyway to best suit your needs. You'll also start tweaking the 30/3 as you experiment with it ("What if I started earlier, but made bigger steps, like a 20/5?", "What if I waited longer, and made small steps, like a 50/1?", etc.).

It's actually been a while since I looked into optimizing mine. I'd like to hear what Sofis is running.

Last edited by Munch; 04-16-2018 at 07:39 PM.
  #758  
Old 04-17-2018, 11:40 AM
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I stopped using Gigastations months ago. I can make it to the magma without slowing down using only unprestiged warpstations and collectors, so no point in the extra clicking. I was using a 50/5 strategy before that.
  #759  
Old 05-08-2018, 03:38 AM
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I finally beat the Spire tonight! I'd reached the point where I had all the level 41 upgrades unlocked and respecced to put as much helium into Coordinated as possible to bring my unused coordinations down to 21, and I steamrolled through Druopitee on my sixth group of Trimps.

Next destination - magma. Any tips for when I get there?
  #760  
Old 05-08-2018, 01:12 PM
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Congratulations!

The magma changes quite a lot. The game up to the magma revolves a lot around using nursery-fueled geneticists to make up for the many coordination upgrades you can't buy, and the various aspects of the magma seem designed to move the game away from that.
  • Nurseries decay with every zone, making the health from them only a temporary boost. For the time being, you'll want to use all your nurseries for the spire, but later it will be a good idea to save some for the end of the run.
  • Each zone applies a stack of overheating to your trimps, which removes one coordination's worth of health and attack, so you'll need to keep buying coordinations just to stay the same strength. You will find your early runs ending pretty quickly in the magma, as you lose strength while the enemies get stronger. Overheating does not affect block though, so keeping it higher than the enemies' attack will become trivial after a while. This will affect which heirloom modifiers are valuable.
  • You get a tremendous boost in power in the form of 100 coordinations... once you have the population to buy them.
  • The potential to give you that population comes in the form of the Dimensional Generator. However, it will need some upgrades before it will be all that impressive. Also, it will require quite a lot of babysitting to begin with, but you will be able to buy upgrades that makes it capable of running mostly on its own. Carpentry and Coordinated perks remain as important, if not more so.
The good news include that you get a x5 helium gain multiplier from zones in the magma, so you'll be raking it in. Also, you'll get Nature powers, which are fun, but I have no idea what they're like in the early magma (they were introduced well after I did that part of the game).
  #761  
Old 05-11-2018, 01:00 PM
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Woohoo! I beat Spire IV! The first time I ever reached Z500 I cleared 5 rows of the Spire, and this was the second time.

It took 49 hours: an afternoon to reach 495, then ran map 501, then ran Bionic 515 overnight “Tier First”. Around 24 hours in, I finally had the Dagger from zone 511. Kept running Bionic until I had all zone 515 equipment.

Then on to zone 500, where I set my breed timer to an hour with all 5200 nurseries and waited for my full Magmamancer bonus. I’d overdone my Health - when I finally ran the Spire I was untouchable except with Corrupted Sharpness (not quit enough Fluffy to remove it completely). And then a night of grinding through rows 9 and 10, and probably 10 hours chipping away at the last Echo.

There’s an Achievement for clearing it in 48 hours. Maybe in a couple weeks I’ll try again. I have Balance C2 active on this run, and I bet I could shave off a couple hours with a different challenge or with no challenge.
  #762  
Old 05-11-2018, 01:29 PM
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It took 49 hours: an afternoon to reach 495, then ran map 501, then ran Bionic 515 overnight “Tier First”. Around 24 hours in, I finally had the Dagger from zone 511. Kept running Bionic until I had all zone 515 equipment.
Correction: Equip First, to get the highest tier Dagger in as few runs as possible. It would have take days with Tier First.
  #763  
Old 05-11-2018, 06:36 PM
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Well done! Sounds like you got a bit lucky to not meet any sharp enemies towards the end of the spire.
  #764  
Old 05-17-2018, 07:23 PM
Smapti Smapti is offline
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Making my first forays into Magma now. Any advice for when I should start worrying about collecting Magmite instead of working on my population? Also, how much effort should I put into buying Magmamancers?
  #765  
Old 05-17-2018, 08:18 PM
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I think you should do several runs gathering nothing but Magmite. Use it to buy Efficiency upgrades, which will increase housing per tick. When you've done that, you can start by gathering fuel, then switch when the tank is full. Don't try to save Magmite, you'll lose 30% on portal.

In your first few runs through the magma, megamancers will only make a tiny difference. You have to wait 2 hours for them to take full effect, and they only add a few percent. As you progress, they become more and more useful.
  #766  
Old 05-19-2018, 11:07 AM
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Still haven't gotten past level 165. I keep doing Challenges. Am I wasting my time?
  #767  
Old 05-19-2018, 12:16 PM
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Still haven't gotten past level 165. I keep doing Challenges. Am I wasting my time?
I'm in a similar boat. I've had this running for many months now, have about 5.4M all-time helium with 45 portals, 266% extra damage from achieves, and perks set to Perky's recommendation for level gain. I've done all the available challenges that don't require days of micro-managing (e.g. "Life"). I still grind to a halt at around level 135, and even getting there takes 3-4 days. Getting to 145 took me over a week. It seems like I've been stuck at more or less this same state for at least two months, getting just incrementally better and collecting helium. But I see people here talking about getting to 500+ in an afternoon. At my current rate, I expect I'd be at that level in about a decade.

I can't help but think I'm missing some major advancement mechanism.
  #768  
Old 05-19-2018, 12:32 PM
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and even getting there takes 3-4 days
You're not portaling often enough. Do the dailies, and portal every day - even if that means portaling at level 90. You're wasting a lot of time on incremental grinding.
  #769  
Old 05-19-2018, 01:33 PM
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Agreed. In the approaching two years I've been at this, I've done week-long runs exactly twice, and runs of length 3-5 days maybe 4 or 5 times. The vast majority of my runs have been one or two days long. They were two days long when I first started playing since there was a lot of micromanagement involved and having the trimps mind themselves during longer grinds optimised the use of my personal time, though not my progress rate. Since unlocking enough automation that it's practical, I've done mostly one-day runs.

Knowed Out, I don't know if that advice is applicable to your situation, but doing daily challenges is a good way of increasing helium gain.
  #770  
Old 05-19-2018, 02:31 PM
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You're not portaling often enough. Do the dailies, and portal every day - even if that means portaling at level 90. You're wasting a lot of time on incremental grinding.
I'll try that. What should I be spending my helium on? -- all the "big" ones are up to the point now where they take multi-hundred-K helium investments to improve.
  #771  
Old 05-19-2018, 02:46 PM
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Have you run the Challenge2s yet?
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Old 05-19-2018, 03:52 PM
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Have you run the Challenge2s yet?
Some of them. Not a lot are doable at my level.
  #773  
Old 05-19-2018, 06:28 PM
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All of them are doable. The trick is to run each one of them quickly. Stop as soon as it becomes a grind. Then move onto the next. You might only pick up about two or three percent from each of them, but after running them all that will give you a 45% boost. Then you can run them again. The boost will be enough to carry you further and increase your bonus.
  #774  
Old 05-20-2018, 03:02 AM
Smapti Smapti is offline
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I'll try that. What should I be spending my helium on? -- all the "big" ones are up to the point now where they take multi-hundred-K helium investments to improve.
If you haven't invested in Looting in awhile, keep in mind that that affects helium as well.
  #775  
Old 05-20-2018, 03:59 PM
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So you guys are saying once it gets to a long grind, portal and take a Daily? Makes sense I guess. I just feel like I keep spinning into the definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
  #776  
Old 05-20-2018, 04:44 PM
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It's only worth grinding if you are close to getting an Achievement or other bonus. If you're at level 158, then grinding to finish 160 is worthwhile. If you're at 162 then grinding to get to 165 is pointless.
  #777  
Old 05-21-2018, 04:34 AM
Smapti Smapti is offline
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As I get into Magma, how should I deal with the loss of my Nurseries? I've only made it a zone or two in so far before portaling, because I'm focusing on magmite and helium at the moment. I feel like I should be firing my Geneticists to get my breed time back to 30 seconds, but that means shrinking my health even deeper in addition to the overheating effect. Should I be investing more in lumberjacks so I can build more nurseries? Or should I be pumping more of my helium into Power and Toughness?
  #778  
Old 05-21-2018, 09:03 AM
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Early in the magma, you just have to accept the loss. When you get a bit further, don't build nurseries at all until the last few zones. Only build as few as you need to stay fast. Save as many as you can for later. Only build more when you start to slow down.
  #779  
Old 06-06-2018, 05:20 AM
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4.8 is out!
  #780  
Old 06-06-2018, 09:12 AM
Peter Morris Peter Morris is online now
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That's a lot of changes.
  #781  
Old 06-06-2018, 10:56 AM
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I don't understand the slider on the housing generator. What's the advantage to setting it below the maximum?

Last edited by Peter Morris; 06-06-2018 at 10:56 AM.
  #782  
Old 06-06-2018, 11:04 AM
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I think it's because higher fuel capacity means you start overclocking later, which means a number of tauntimps will be essentially wasted. Given that tauntimps will make up most of your population towards the end of a run in the deep magma even if you're overclocking the entire way, that can lead to lower final population. I don't know what the optimal capacity is, but I stopped upgrading my capacity past 55 for that reason. The slider functions as a way to fix that issue for anyone that overleveled capacity.

Last edited by Sofis; 06-06-2018 at 11:08 AM.
  #783  
Old 06-06-2018, 12:49 PM
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Is anyone else finding that it just sits at the beginning of a zone until you hit the [Fight] button manually? And yes, I have AutoFight on.

Too weird.

It's been a few months since I opened this last, but I'm pretty sure I'm running the Meditate Challenge2. Maybe it will normalize after I re-set?

Last edited by TruCelt; 06-06-2018 at 12:50 PM.
  #784  
Old 06-06-2018, 01:09 PM
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I've not had that problem. The only thing I know of that would make the game wait to send a battle group while at full population is waiting for Anticipation to stack up. That sometimes happens at the start of a zone after a battle group is blown up by an Omnipotrimp, but that happens (at most) every five zones, and only if you had a group die shortly before killing the Omnipotrimp.
  #785  
Old 06-22-2018, 06:13 AM
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I've just reached zone 236 and the first bit of Nature. Hooray!

As I get deeper into Magma, how should I handle fuel vs. magmite?
  #786  
Old 06-22-2018, 02:11 PM
Peter Morris Peter Morris is online now
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I'll repeat the advice I gave a few weeks ago.

think you should do several runs gathering nothing but Magmite. Use it to buy Efficiency upgrades, which will increase housing per tick. When you've done that, you can start by gathering fuel, then switch when the tank is full. Don't try to save Magmite, you'll lose 30% on portal.

In your first few runs through the magma, megamancers will only make a tiny difference. You have to wait 2 hours for them to take full effect, and they only add a few percent. As you progress, they become more and more useful.
  #787  
Old 06-27-2018, 08:29 AM
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Spire VI. Between Ice and Fluffy, the enemy damage has been 0 throughout. Which you might think would be a good thing, but you'd be wrong. I've been on it for 463 hours now. Yep.

I'm to the point where I can't make heads or tails of the orders of magnitude in the game. My damage is expressed in "Spa" my block in "Oog" and my health in "Uog." The enemy health is in "Usp."

I have no clue whatsoever how these orders relate to each other, beyond the empirical data that "Usp" is clearly substantially higher than "Spa." Does anyone know of a site where I can look up the actual numbers and their abbreviations? Googling the abbreviations gets me nowhere.*



*Actually, the first hit it gets me is a job tracker for the University of Kentucky, which strikes me funny in a comédie noire sort of way.
  #788  
Old 06-27-2018, 11:40 AM
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I use alphabetic notation for numbers. Much easier to understand.

for example, I am right now on zone 365 on my current run. I have :
7.57 ao max health
460 ap block
157 al max damage

current enemy has:
6.27 ak max health
233 al max damage

al is a thousand time greater than ak. That tells me that my damage will totally destroy his health, and carry through to destroy the next cell. Far easier to understand the relative strengths that way.
  #789  
Old 06-29-2018, 10:17 PM
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I have no clue whatsoever how these orders relate to each other, beyond the empirical data that "Usp" is clearly substantially higher than "Spa." Does anyone know of a site where I can look up the actual numbers and their abbreviations? Googling the abbreviations gets me nowhere.*
You can just use normal numerical notation instead. Settings > Layout, upper-left option. Sounds like you're on "Standard Formatting".

Last edited by Caldazar; 06-29-2018 at 10:17 PM.
  #790  
Old 07-02-2018, 01:37 PM
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Spire VI. Between Ice and Fluffy, the enemy damage has been 0 throughout. Which you might think would be a good thing, but you'd be wrong. I've been on it for 463 hours now. Yep.
. . .
After 588 hours I'm finally on the last cell. Unfortunately I had been running AutoTrimps which used fluffy in zone 699, so there's no help for it. If I get through this cell in less than two days I'll be chuffed.

Grim determination is never the best strategic approach to an idle game, but this time I'm just set on finishing.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:16 PM
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I'm into the 240s now and I've managed to start collecting poison tokens. Another run or two and I'll be able to start farming wind and ice tokens as well. What's the best way to invest them?

Last edited by Smapti; 07-11-2018 at 10:20 PM.
  #792  
Old 07-12-2018, 10:44 AM
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I'm into the 240s now and I've managed to start collecting poison tokens. Another run or two and I'll be able to start farming wind and ice tokens as well. What's the best way to invest them?
They don't do much at first, but eventually they'll be a big deal. I like to keep the Empowerment and Transfer levels about the same for each type of Nature. Don't convert from one type to another just yet.

The Ice is going to be really nice to have. As you level up, the only enemies in Ice zones that will hurt you are Sharp. At some point Ice will be high enough that there's no further benefit to upgrading; you deal 99.99% more damage and take 99.99% less damage, vs you deal 99.999% more damage and take 99.999% less damage. By then you should have enough Masteries to efficiently convert excess Ice into Poison or Wind.

In late-late game, you'll want to collect some sweet weapon prestiges before completing each Poison region. Right now I'm at Zone 540 (Poison) farming a level 560 bionic map for prestiges. My Poison is 1000x my Attack. Those prestiges will hopefully carry me to Zone 551 where the next Poison kicks in, and then I'll run Voids in Zone 555.
  #793  
Old 07-13-2018, 12:36 PM
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Personally, I focused on empowerment at first, then after a while started keeping my transfer rate at half my empowerment level, then after I hit empowerment 60/transfer 30 I put everything into transfer rate until it was maxed. There's a table on the wiki page that suggests maxing transfer rate when you have empowerment 36, for some calculation of maximal efficiency. I don't think it'll make too much difference as long as you eventually max transfer rate.

For ice, I stopped upgrading it at level 100, because it's a nice round number. That's way more than needed. The way to think about it is this: sharp corrupted enemies reduce your HP by 20%. If each attack applies an ice stack that reduces damage by significantly more than 20%, the enemy attack will decrease faster than your health, and even sharp enemies will take many minutes to kill you.
  #794  
Old 07-14-2018, 08:46 PM
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They don't do much at first, but eventually they'll be a big deal. I like to keep the Empowerment and Transfer levels about the same for each type of Nature. Don't convert from one type to another just yet.
. . .
In late-late game, you'll want to collect some sweet weapon prestiges before completing each Poison region.
. . .
Right. This is when I really started moving much higher with every run. Whenever you are in Poison try to leap-frog up the next few Bionic maps. Then you can just go to bed and leave the Trimps to catch up with their equipment level while you sleep.
  #795  
Old 07-21-2018, 08:34 PM
Smapti Smapti is offline
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So my strategy for Magma thus far has been to try to wean myself off Geneticists (I'm at about 600 right now whereas pre-Magma I'd have about 1000 at 230) so that I can make it further into the run before I run out of affordable Nurseries (which seems to max out at about 2000 for me.) Is that a sound strategy going past the 240s? What's the best way to cope once I run out of nurseries and have to start cutting geneticists to keep my breed time reasonable?
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Old 07-27-2018, 02:35 PM
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Huh, I never got a notification mail for your post, Smapti. Considering no one else replied either, maybe the mail system was down when you posted.

Anyway, yes, you'll have to make do without nurseries eventually. The key thing is to keep upgrading the generator and Coordinated and Carpentry perks. You will eventually start getting so much population you can buy all your coordinations and have your fighting group stay a small fraction of your population. At that point the large ratio between your fighting group size and your population size is what will give you space for geneticists.
  #797  
Old 08-10-2018, 05:15 AM
manila manila is offline
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Got my first ethereal shield at 0.8% chance ( Z165 ish) 400 crit damage, 70% trimp block, 200% trimp attack and 246% player efficiency (??) this was after filling the empty slot. Okay not brilliant but at my stage in the HZE 180 I'll take \!

I'm not going to swap the player efficiency as its too expensive so I will just use it until I get another.

Questions are wth is player efficiency? i thought efficiency was clock speed.

On an unrelated point, I had level 3 siphonology as per perky, but I don't see any great benefit of it so am doing my current run without.

thoughts please?
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  #798  
Old 08-10-2018, 06:27 AM
Smapti Smapti is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manila View Post
Questions are wth is player efficincy?
Player efficiency is the bonus to Food, Lumber, Metal, or Science that you, the player, contribute when you select that resource. Once you've passed the early-game stage, it's essentially negligible except when you have Turkimp, in which case you'll get a huge bonus to whatever resource you've selected.

Quote:
On an unrelated point, I had level 3 siphonology as per perky, but I don't see any great benefit of it so am doing my current run without.
Siphonology basically makes it easier to stack up your attack multiplier. Let's say you're on Zone X. If you go to maps and complete Map X, then you gain 20% attack for as long as you're on Zone X, which can make it easier for you to finish that Zone and proceed to Zone X+1. However, you only get this bonus if the map you've completed is the same level as the zone you're on.

Each level of Siphonology, however, allows you to get that same bonus on a lower-level map. So if you have level 1 Siphonology, and you're on Zone X, you can get that attack bonus by completing Map X-1.

I've found that Siphonology becomes less important as you get into the post-Spire realm, but by that point the Helium cost is negligible anyway.
  #799  
Old 08-10-2018, 06:45 AM
manila manila is offline
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Ah okay, thanks for that Smapti

I'll pay close attention to this on my current run
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  #800  
Old 08-10-2018, 06:48 AM
Peter Morris Peter Morris is online now
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Siphonology is very useful at the end of a run. You can run a map up to 10 times to get a 200% bonus in the World. If you are at, for instance, level 250 then siphonology will allow you to run a level 247 map to get that bonus. Well worth having. And pretty cheap, as I recall. You won't save a significant amount of helium by not having it.

ETA - What Smapti said.

Last edited by Peter Morris; 08-10-2018 at 06:51 AM.
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