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  #1  
Old 05-21-2014, 03:14 AM
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Smapti is a coward, a fascist and an idiot


The rules of the pit forbid me from truly expressing my hatred for this sniveling, spineless piece of shit, so I shall attempt to work around that.

Smapti has never met a war crime he didn't like. He is a coward who would destroy everything America should be to protect himself from a handful of incompetent cave-dwellers. He believes that all blame for the misdeeds of his beloved CIA and NSA should lie with those who refuse to whitewash their crimes, and not with the individuals who spend their days shitting on the Constitution. He revels in his ignorance, always bleating about how much better things would be if the world just let his jack-booted puppeteers do our thinking for us.

In short, he is a poor effigy of a human being, an invertebrate that somehow learned to mash a keyboard to create a crude semblance of human conversation, without once engaging in that practice he so despises: thought.
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Old 05-21-2014, 03:26 AM
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Smapti has never met a war crime he didn't like.
"War crime" is what the winner calls it when the loser did the same things the winner would have done in their shoes.

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He is a coward who would destroy everything America should be to protect himself from a handful of incompetent cave-dwellers.
Lofty ideals about freedom and privacy don't mean a lot to a corpse who's just had a skyscraper dropped on it. You'll keep in mind that the fundamental freedoms spoken of in the Constitution are "life, liberty, and property", in that order. When "a handful of incompetent cave-dwellers" can exploit the holes in our system to murder thousands of people in cold blood, then I'm all for changing the rules if the rules are stopping us from protecting American life.

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He believes that all blame for the misdeeds of his beloved CIA and NSA should lie with those who refuse to whitewash their crimes, and not with the individuals who spend their days shitting on the Constitution.
Are we better off knowing about the CIA's vaccination program than we were before? Before it was exposed, people were being vaccinated and we were able to collect data to keep our people safe and hunt down those who would do us harm. Now, people are afraid to get vaccinated and we've lost an important source of intel.

If Lavabit had done its patriotic duty, the NSA could have continued to track lawbreakers for years while all the while they thought their crimes were going unnoticed. Now, we've lost that avenue too.

Why does the right of terrorists and anarchists to plot murder and violence trump my right to live?

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He revels in his ignorance, always bleating about how much better things would be if the world just let his jack-booted puppeteers do our thinking for us.
No, I cherish freedom of thought and expression. That's why I want my government to have the power to protect it from people who would see us all dead for praying the wrong way.

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In short, he is a poor effigy of a human being, an invertebrate that somehow learned to mash a keyboard to create a crude semblance of human conversation, without once engaging in that practice he so despises: thought.
If you say so.
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Old 05-21-2014, 03:30 AM
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Thanks Smapti. I was going to ask the OP for a link to back up his claims but you have provided some good examples to work with locally.
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Old 05-21-2014, 03:38 AM
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The CIA's "vaccination programs"?

Do I even want to ask?
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Old 05-21-2014, 03:44 AM
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For reference, The CIA admits to using vaccination programs for spying

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"
Lofty ideals about freedom and privacy don't mean a lot to a corpse who's just had a skyscraper dropped on it. You'll keep in mind that the fundamental freedoms spoken of in the Constitution are "life, liberty, and property", in that order. When "a handful of incompetent cave-dwellers" can exploit the holes in our system to murder thousands of people in cold blood, then I'm all for changing the rules if the rules are stopping us from protecting American life.
You are an idiot. Just the flu, by itself, kills more Americans every year than Osama Bin Laden ever did in his wildest dreams. Giving a huge part of the world genuine evidence that vaccine programs were involved in any form of government conspiracy just signed the death warrants of exponentially more people than everyone Al Qaeda has ever killed worldwide.
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Old 05-21-2014, 03:50 AM
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You are an idiot. Just the flu, by itself, kills more Americans every year than Osama Bin Laden ever did in his wildest dreams. Giving a huge part of the world genuine evidence that vaccine programs were involved in any form of government conspiracy just signed the death warrants of exponentially more people than everyone Al Qaeda has ever killed worldwide.
So you agree with me that the people who exposed this program are accessories to mass murder, then.
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Old 05-21-2014, 03:54 AM
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So you agree with me that the people who exposed this program are accessories to mass murder, then.
Obviously not. As noted: you are an idiot.

The truth would have come out one way or another. The people who exposed it saved many lives by limiting the damage to what it is and preventing it from continuing.
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Old 05-21-2014, 03:55 AM
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Dude's paranoia makes him get behind anything that looks like it might reduce threats to him (and him alone, others don't matter anywhere near as much). For a good example, see this thread about organ donation where he starts off with a reasonable enough justification and ends up revealing his delusions: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=695406
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Old 05-21-2014, 03:56 AM
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The truth would have come out one way or another. The people who exposed it saved many lives by limiting the damage to what it is and preventing it from continuing.
Maybe it would've come out next year. Maybe it would've come out 50 years from now after everyone involved was already dead. We'll never know. What we do know is that those lives are in danger now because of some lone wolf's decision that "information wants to be free" trumps national security.
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Old 05-21-2014, 03:57 AM
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Dude's paranoia makes him get behind anything that looks like it might reduce threats to him (and him alone, others don't matter anywhere near as much).
I've never said that others don't matter, but if I'm dead, knowing that other people aren't is small comfort (notwithstanding that there isn't even a me left at that point to know.)
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:06 AM
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Maybe it would've come out next year. Maybe it would've come out 50 years from now after everyone involved was already dead. We'll never know. What we do know is that those lives are in danger now because of some lone wolf's decision that "information wants to be free" trumps national security.
No those lives are in danger now because other delusional cowards like you decided it was better to risk millions of lives worldwide in order to snuff out one guy they were afraid was a threat to them.

Maybe the CIA could rig every 5th car in the world to explode the next time it is started. I bet we could wipe out a lot of bad guys that way too.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:12 AM
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No those lives are in danger now because other delusional cowards like you decided it was better to risk millions of lives worldwide in order to snuff out one guy they were afraid was a threat to them.
Right. That's why we spent fifteen years hunting Osama bin Laden - it was because we were afraid he was a threat. It's not like he ever actually did anything to threaten us, right? That old horse thief!

The program wasn't a risk to anyone as long as it remained clandestine. It was doing a public service that probably wouldn't have gotten done at all if not for the CIA's expenditure.

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Maybe the CIA could rig every 5th car in the world to explode the next time it is started. I bet we could wipe out a lot of bad guys that way too.
Because the CIA totally just kills random people with no rhyme or reason whatsoever on the hopes that maybe they were a bad guy.

And I'm the idiot here?
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:15 AM
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Because the CIA totally just kills random people with no rhyme or reason whatsoever on the hopes that maybe they were a bad guy.
Apparently so, or at least on the hopes that maybe they will catch a bad guy.

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And I'm the idiot here?
Yes.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:16 AM
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Apparently so, or at least on the hopes that maybe they will catch a bad guy.
Cite?
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:19 AM
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Cite?
See post #5.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:24 AM
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The next time someone asks me why many the rest of us non-Yanks don't trust Americans to play world policeman, I'm going to have this thread to link to, so there's that.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:25 AM
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See post #5.
Where does post #5 say anything about the CIA killing random people in the hopes that one of them is a bad guy?
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:33 AM
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The next time someone asks me why many the rest of us non-Yanks don't trust Americans to play world policeman, I'm going to have this thread to link to, so there's that.
In our defense, the vast majority of Americans think Smapti is an idiot. We can manage him, but sadly we don't have any control over the rest.

If more whistleblowers muster the guts to shine a light on the situation and force public awareness, a prerequisite to any change, maybe in time we will.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:34 AM
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If more whistleblowers muster the guts to shine a light on the situation and force public awareness, a prerequisite to any change, maybe in time we will.
"Public awareness" is not an end in and of itself. Sometimes, it's a detriment.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:35 AM
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"Public awareness" is not an end in and of itself. Sometimes, it's a detriment.
It is the beginning of any necessary social or political change.
  #21  
Old 05-21-2014, 04:39 AM
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It is the beginning of any necessary social or political change.
Not every social or political change is "necessary", nor necessarily for the better of the people.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:41 AM
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In our defense, the vast majority of Americans think Smapti is an idiot.
They might do now. But back in 2001 there were many, many Smaptis crawling out of the woodwork. We remember.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:47 AM
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They might do now. But back in 2001 there were many, many Smaptis crawling out of the woodwork. We remember.
So do we but nevertheless... it took one of our guys to blow the whistle on them finally, even though countless other governments around the world were cooperating for many years.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:48 AM
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Where does post #5 say anything about the CIA killing random people in the hopes that one of them is a bad guy?
If sabotaging efforts to cure contagious diseases does not count, there's always bombing weddings, bombing funerals, bombing journalists, bombing teenagers and all those other war crimes that you claim would just disappear if we stopped being so impolite as to mention it when the people you carry water for murder civilians.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:49 AM
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So do we but nevertheless... it took one of our guys to blow the whistle on them finally, even though countless other governments around the world were cooperating for many years.
You say "blow the whistle". I say "sell out his country and run away to a far more oppressive illiberal state to live off the Kremlin's largesse while they slowly gobble up Europe".
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:00 AM
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You say "blow the whistle". I say "sell out his country and run away to a far more oppressive illiberal state to live off the Kremlin's largesse while they slowly gobble up Europe".
If only someone had the courage to expose the kremlin's evil tactics to the world, maybe the Russian people would decide enough is enough.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:07 AM
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If only someone had the courage to expose the kremlin's evil tactics to the world, maybe the Russian people would decide enough is enough.
So we're in agreement that the actual injustices committed by Russia are worse than the imaginary injustices committed by the CIA, then.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:14 AM
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So we're in agreement that the actual injustices committed by Russia are worse than the imaginary injustices committed by the CIA, then.
The injustices committed by the CIA aren't imaginary, your version of reality is.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:22 AM
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The injustices committed by the CIA aren't imaginary
Vaccinating people against polio is an injustice? Bringing Osama bin Laden to justice is an injustice?
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:28 AM
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Are we better off knowing about the CIA's vaccination program than we were before?
Yes; now we are able to shut down the CIA's sabotage of the effort, and might manage to wipe out polio despite their attempt to keep it alive.

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If Lavabit had done its patriotic duty
That's precisely what it did do.

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I'm all for changing the rules if the rules are stopping us from protecting American life.
Quote:
Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's spacious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:29 AM
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In short, he is a poor effigy of a human being, an invertebrate that somehow learned to mash a keyboard to create a crude semblance of human conversation, without once engaging in that practice he so despises: thought.
A nice effort, but the classics are still the best:

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Originally Posted by Samuel Adams
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:34 AM
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You say "blow the whistle". I say "sell out his country and run away to a far more oppressive illiberal state to live off the Kremlin's largesse while they slowly gobble up Europe".
So, how does the connection from timeline-Smapti (where Snowden actually booked a trip to Russia) and timeline-reality (where Snowden got stuck in Russia as the result of the US Government's actions) work?
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:37 AM
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Dude's paranoia makes him get behind anything that looks like it might reduce threats to him (and him alone, others don't matter anywhere near as much). For a good example, see this thread about organ donation where he starts off with a reasonable enough justification and ends up revealing his delusions: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=695406
Holy crap....
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  #34  
Old 05-21-2014, 05:40 AM
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Yes; now we are able to shut down the CIA's sabotage of the effort, and might manage to wipe out polio despite their attempt to keep it alive.
Do you suppose that the US government would have been funding those doctors and making it possible for them to vaccinate people if not for the intelligence program? Unlikely. The CIA got people vaccinated who wouldn't have been otherwise. That's a net benefit to the entire world.

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That's precisely what it did do.
Facilitating terrorism and organized crime is patriotic now?
  #35  
Old 05-21-2014, 05:41 AM
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So, how does the connection from timeline-Smapti (where Snowden actually booked a trip to Russia) and timeline-reality (where Snowden got stuck in Russia as the result of the US Government's actions) work?
Snowden chose to make a fugitive of himself, and he chose to accept the Czar's shilling. A patriot would have long since walked over to the US embassy and surrendered - if he had ever fled the country in the first place.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:43 AM
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If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Who said anything about wealth? I love life more than I love liberty. I'd rather be alive and "licking the hands that feed me" than be dead and... nothing else, because then I wouldn't exist anymore.
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:50 AM
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So you agree with me that the people who exposed this program are accessories to mass murder, then.
I am forming a mental image of life in Smaptistan... the armed forced decked out in their International Red Cross iconography, granting them immunity to enemy fire unless some traitor exposes the ruse... the tax-accounting offices where would-be clients are waterboarded until they reveal their real income, shaving away at the deficit as long as security is maintained... the citizens studiously turning away from the sight of some malcontent complaining about his restaurant bill, insuring absolute domestic tranquility provided that no snot-nosed kid yells that the emperor is naked....
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:51 AM
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Facilitating terrorism and organized crime is patriotic now?
Dere dere, da baaad tewwawist isn't gonna steal your kidneys....
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Old 05-21-2014, 05:58 AM
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So Smapti has absolutely no concept of the value of privacy. Okay, I can understand that. I don't agree, but it's at least not completely without merit to rob privacy to serve safety. At least in principle. In practice... Well, Smapti, I think you're a threat to national security. To prove that you aren't, please install a webcam in your living room, dining room, bedroom, and bathroom. Keep them on at all times. I'll be reviewing the livestream to ensure that you aren't doing anything suspicious. I'll also be opening all your mail.

...Sound like something you wouldn't like? Huh. I thought you were totally okay with violating people's privacy to prevent potential terrorism.

P.S. this:

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Originally Posted by you
I choose not to be an organ donor because I am concerned that, in an emergency situation, medical officials might not prioritize saving my life if I had consented in advance to having my organs harvested. Call me paranoid if you like.
Still one of the craziest, dumbest things I've ever seen on this forum.

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  #40  
Old 05-21-2014, 05:59 AM
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the citizens studiously turning away from the sight of some malcontent complaining about his restaurant bill
You have clearly never had to explain the concept of sales tax to a customer who doesn't understand why the menu says $6.99 and his bill is for $7.65.
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Old 05-21-2014, 06:02 AM
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So Smapti has absolutely no concept of the value of privacy. Okay, I can understand that. I don't agree, but it's at least not completely without merit to rob privacy to serve safety. At least in principle. In practice... Well, Smapti, I think you're a threat to national security. To prove that you aren't, please install a webcam in your living room, dining room, bedroom, and bathroom. Keep them on at all times. I'll be reviewing the livestream to ensure that you aren't doing anything suspicious. I'll also be opening all your mail.

...Sound like something you wouldn't like? Huh. I thought you were totally okay with violating people's privacy to prevent potential terrorism.
Send me a copy of the court order, and I'll gladly comply.
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Old 05-21-2014, 06:05 AM
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I love life more than I love liberty.
And yet you are willing to (ab)use your freedom of speech to promulgate preposterous fear-mongering about organ donation, thereby insuring that some will die who otherwise would have lived and placing all (yourself included) at higher risk. Add "massive hypocrite" to the richly deserved description in the OP.

If you're really so addicted to nonsense, can't you at least switch to a pseudo-intellectual version of the nicotine patch? Try transitioning to less malignant forms of twaddle like "Neil Armstrong took one small step onto a soundstage" or "I was once abducted by a space alien" -- silly, but not directly undermining the lives and liberties of everyone around you.
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Old 05-21-2014, 06:07 AM
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Send me a copy of the court order, and I'll gladly comply.
Sorry; it's secret.
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Old 05-21-2014, 06:13 AM
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If you're really so addicted to nonsense, can't you at least switch to a pseudo-intellectual version of the nicotine patch? Try transitioning to less malignant forms of twaddle like "Neil Armstrong took one small step onto a soundstage" or "I was once abducted by a space alien" -- silly, but not directly undermining the lives and liberties of everyone around you.
I prefer to live in the real world, thanks.
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Old 05-21-2014, 06:15 AM
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Sorry; it's secret.
Sorry, even Lavabit was presented with a court order.
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Old 05-21-2014, 06:16 AM
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I prefer to live in the real world, thanks.
Er, you do realize that making the other guy convulse with laughter means you lost the argument, right?

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As noted on the other thread, the gag-order policy makes this impossible to verify. Assertions of fact that are impossible to verify are out of order.
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  #47  
Old 05-21-2014, 06:19 AM
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Er, you do realize that making the other guy convulse with laughter means you lost the argument, right?
I don't live in a world where the Moon landing was faked. I do live in a world where "incompetent men hiding in caves" can kill thousands.

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As noted on the other thread, the gag-order policy makes this impossible to verify.
Which is as it should be.
  #48  
Old 05-21-2014, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
Send me a copy of the court order, and I'll gladly comply.


I almost want to go into politics to make this happen.
  #49  
Old 05-21-2014, 06:25 AM
Steve MB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
I don't live in a world where the Moon landing was faked.
As revealed on the thread that switched my engagement with you toward 30% serious, 70% mock, you live in a demon-haunted world where every doctor who crosses your path is checking you out, and not because they want to tap that. "Real world", indeed!

Quote:
Which is as it should be.
Well, then, you stipulate that you don't get to use the unverifiable fact, and you don't get to discuss the warrant presented to you. I'll have it printed, er, presented as soon as I get around to it....
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  #50  
Old 05-21-2014, 06:28 AM
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I have no desire to enter this mess but I do have an honest question:

Why is it being stated as fact (or genuinely accepted) that millions of parents en mass will now turn their backs on the vaccination program due to the CIA being ousted?

I'm not at all convinced that they will. There might be an initial knee jerk reaction to it, but with a little damage control I see no reason why this vaccination program couldn't get back on track.

I mean jeez, how many parents out there are going to roll the dice on their child's life because the vaccination folks might be watching them?

I know I sure as hell wouldn't (roll the dice that is) if I were in their shoes.
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