Straight Dope Message Board

[2Bits]

Would you? Would most of those that know you consider you to be sane? If so, then please explain. 1

[Napier]

To do for their country.

I don't think I have the ability, but if somebody could prove to me that I did, then yes. 2

[2Bits]

My OP rests upon an assumption that whomever wins the next presidential election is going to have an exceedingly miserable four years ahead of themself. 3

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by 2Bits

Would you? Would most of those that know you consider you to be sane? If so, then please explain.

The awesome perks. And if you dont mind being flexible morally the perks are tenfold. And im not referring to the likes of Trump, he's just absent entirely from any conversation about morals, or ethics or understanding anything outside of his immediate baser impulses or what happened 2 minutes ago or anything that anyone said to him prior to the current person speaking to him or any food besides Big Macs and Oreo McFlurries or why other people dont also have orange skin or the goings on of any country in the world besides Russia and maybe Montenegro or why when they say someone's legs are "paralyzed" yet the person's legs flop around like that? And on and on. 4

[Velocity]

It's a position of tremendous power and influence. The pay - $400,000 a year - would be considered fantastic by 99% of Americans. You get to fly aboard the VC-25. You get to enact - or, at least - try to enact whatever policies you've always wanted to see happen but never happened. You eat great food. You get access to classified secrets that many yearn to know but will never know. You leave your mark on history. You get books written about you, any tweet or Facebook post you make will be read by millions..........

What's not to like? 5

[Wesley Clark]

Why wouldn't you?

It's one of the most prestigious job there is.

The standard of living is better than what a billionaire has access to

Ex presidents easily become multi millionaires. You can make $200,000 a speech in retirement.

You can push your ideological agenda.

You can mold the world.

You have massive power.

Why would you not. 6

[Wesley Clark]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

The awesome perks. And if you dont mind being flexible morally the perks are tenfold. And im not referring to the likes of Trump, he's just absent entirely from any conversation about morals, or ethics or understanding anything outside of his immediate baser impulses or what happened 2 minutes ago or anything that anyone said to him prior to the current person speaking to him or any food besides Big Macs and Oreo McFlurries or why other people dont also have orange skin or the goings on of any country in the world besides Russia and maybe Montenegro or why when they say someone's legs are "paralyzed" yet the person's legs flop around like that? And on and on.

This made me chuckle 7

[Alpha Twit]

Originally Posted by Velocity

What's not to like?

Even for a relatively sane and honorable POTUS, they literally can't do anything without pissing somebody off. Imagine have to choose between having chicken salad vs tuna salad for lunch and knowing that whatever you choose, letters, E-mails and petitions are going to fly questioning your intelligence, your morals, your very soul. EVERY choice you make, every act you perform and somebody hates you for it.

I'm with the OP on this. 8

[naita]

The next president might have trouble with a sharply divided house and senate where politicians are no longer willing to work with each other, but they're also going to have every thinking person in the US go "well at least they're not Trump" no matter what they do to piss people off. 9

[The Other Waldo Pepper]

Originally Posted by Alpha Twit

Even for a relatively sane and honorable POTUS, they literally can't do anything without pissing somebody off. Imagine have to choose between having chicken salad vs tuna salad for lunch and knowing that whatever you choose, letters, E-mails and petitions are going to fly questioning your intelligence, your morals, your very soul. EVERY choice you make, every act you perform and somebody hates you for it.

If you believe that — and I mean really, truly believe it — it sounds super liberating. Wouldn’t it pretty much take the sting out of any criticism? Isn’t it kind of the entire point of that cliché where, If Everything Is X, Then Nothing Is? 10

[Ethilrist]

Trump has really lowered the bar, so it'd be hard not to look awesome in his wake. 11

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by Alpha Twit

Even for a relatively sane and honorable POTUS, they literally can't do anything without pissing somebody off. Imagine have to choose between having chicken salad vs tuna salad for lunch and knowing that whatever you choose, letters, E-mails and petitions are going to fly questioning your intelligence, your morals, your very soul. EVERY choice you make, every act you perform and somebody hates you for it..

How are everyday people availing themselves of the information of the presidents dietary choices on a daily basis? And regarding the general concept of not being able to conduct any duties as POTUS without pissing *someone* off, well, thats why only a very certain and uncommon type of person can make it as POTUS, even be successful (or even survive ) in the campaign to be elected. And a big part of that uncommon person is a large helping of extreme personality traits. Maybe not full blown narcissism (but then again, maybe that has been more of a presence in our Presidents than we realize (we certainly realize it with the current office occupier). They need to have such an astronomixally outsized sense of their own importance and exceptionalism that they can say "You know, I think i *can* become the next President of The United States." 12

[Johnny L.A.]

There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's own safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. If a potential candidate was crazy, he could avoid becoming POTUS. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to become a candidate. A potential candidate would be crazy to Want to be POTUS and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane, he had to run. If he ran, he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to, he was sane and had to. 13

[Velocity]

Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper

If you believe that — and I mean really, truly believe it — it sounds super liberating. Wouldn’t it pretty much take the sting out of any criticism? Isn’t it kind of the entire point of that cliché where, If Everything Is X, Then Nothing Is?

This is what I've been thinking for a long time - whoever succeeds Trump as president - be he a (D) or an (R) - is going to be in a honeymoon period of playing the President Game on the easiest possible difficulty setting. No matter how he or she does (well, within certain parameters,) the media will be gushing about how refreshing it is to finally have a return to sanity and levelheadedness, to have an adult in the Oval Office for once.

Sure, after a year or two the honeymoon period will end, but for a time, that POTUS will be skating by with ease. 14

[KarlGauss]

For anyone who wants to be POTUS:

Do you have any idea the shit they'll dig up on you?

Or the shit they'll make up about you (and the deepfaked docs to prove it)? 15

[Boycott]

Two reasons.

1. Anyone who runs for president at any time has one eye on the history books. Even William Henry Harrison who is just a footnote in presidential history, is part of the history.
   
2. You probably think this is the best chance you'll ever have of being elected because of how divisive the incumbent is. He has his base which will still stand by him but his base is not enough. Not this time when now he has been on the job so can't be the "outsider" anymore. Much like how so many people ran in 1976 because after Watergate and Ford's pardon of Nixon it was assumed it was an election the democrats could not lose so why not throw your hat in the ring to be the guy who wins it all. (of course they almost did lose it).

16

[Tamerlane]

Originally Posted by Velocity

What's not to like?

Literally everything. Put aside the overbearing ego, ambition, sense of entitlement, compromised values and sheer, monstrous hubris it must take to fight your way into that position.

Just focusing on the job itself you have four-eight years on a hot seat, your every move and bowel movement scrutinized in agonizing detail. Despised by large segments of the country, grudgingly tolerated by many others, pathologically adored by a few( those could be the worst ). The constant stress of knowing that even seemingly small decisions you might make might end in a disaster where not only could you be responsible for many deaths, but you could leave a legacy that will haunt an entire country( and you personally ). A life lived in partial confinement, where even wandering out to grab an In-n-Out burger requires either a ridiculous big production or a Get Smart-style incognito raid. God knows how much premature aging.

And then when it is all over after a few short years of being THE MAN you have a continuing lifetime of partial, security-smothered confinement and periodic bursts of intense, intrusive scrutiny. Paparazzi will be haunting you and nutcases will be picking through your garbage until the day you die. And you aren't just inflicting this on yourself, but on your entire family. After you die they'll still be picking through your kid's garbage.

I wouldn't even want to be a well-known character actor. Being president would be a thousand times worse. It's an utterly shit job. Sadly someone has to do it, but I'm glad it isn't me. 17

[RioRico]

Originally Posted by Ethilrist

Trump has really lowered the bar, so it'd be hard not to look awesome in his wake.

A syphilitic hyena would look awesome in Tramp's wake. That'll raise the bar.

What personality defects propel a humanoid toward the presidency, Bierce's "greased pig in the field game of American politics"?

• Lust for power, planes, bribes, sexual access, and hot meals.
• Ability to absorb or ignore critical verbal shit. (Tramp lacks this.)
• An actual desire to benefit the public -- as long as self-interest wins, too.
• Treason, if owned by enemies waging war on the US. (Tramp is there.)
• Curiosity about UFO-ET reports, or desire to quash them because alien.
• If so inclined, it's easier than actually working for a living.

On the downside, candidates and winners will be probed closer than anything but a cow near Area 51 with an alien anal probe. The sensitive (and sane) are disqualified.

Tramp lost the vote but won the White House. Luzers rule! He was impeachable and removable as soon he took office. Had Hillary won 75k more votes in 3 counties, she'd be in the hot seat - and GOPs would have filed impeachment articles on 22 Jan 2017.

US national politics are broken, imposing kakistrocracy (rule by the worst). Smile. 18

[rsat3acr]

so I could appoint people to the Supreme Court that used the Constitution not the bible to rule on cases. 19

[FairyChatMom]

Originally Posted by KarlGauss

For anyone who wants to be POTUS:

Do you have any idea the shit they'll dig up on you?

This is the thing that would stop me from pursuing any office. I don't need the whole world knowing that I got a D on my Aerodynamic final exam. Or that I had an illegal hot plate in my room that one time. Or that Sister Mary Alice made me stand out in the hallway because I didn't follow directions on my worksheet in first grade.

Seriously, while I've tried to live a decent life, I'm sure I've done and said things that could be interpreted or twisted in horrific ways if someone was so inclined. Not to mention what might be said by anyone I may have pissed off in the past.

That, and my total lack of leadership skills. 20

[Two Many Cats]

Originally Posted by Alpha Twit

Even for a relatively sane and honorable POTUS, they literally can't do anything without pissing somebody off. Imagine have to choose between having chicken salad vs tuna salad for lunch and knowing that whatever you choose, letters, E-mails and petitions are going to fly questioning your intelligence, your morals, your very soul. EVERY choice you make, every act you perform and somebody hates you for it.

I'm with the OP on this.

You don't have to read the hate mail. That's what secretaries are for. 21

[RioRico]

Originally Posted by FairyChatMom

This is the thing that would stop me from pursuing any office. I don't need the whole world knowing that I got a D on my Aerodynamic final exam. Or that I had an illegal hot plate in my room that one time. Or that Sister Mary Alice made me stand out in the hallway because I didn't follow directions on my worksheet in first grade.

If enough dirt can't be found on you, it'll be fabricated. OTOH if you were Tramp you'd brag of your crimes and be adored for your honesty. "In kindergarten I grabbed-em by the pigtails. Then I grew taller and aimed lower. It wasn't rape if they enjoyed it."

Seriously, while I've tried to live a decent life, I'm sure I've done and said things that could be interpreted or twisted in horrific ways if someone was so inclined. Not to mention what might be said by anyone I may have pissed off in the past.

I would be knocked out of any race more elevated than county dogcatcher (and dogs like me). I've killed or injured nobody; racked-up no major convictions or settlements; not cheated on taxes much nor spouse at all; used Twitter. But I'm doomed politically. Too many minor creaky details infest my past. Must I bleach my history?

That, and my total lack of leadership skills.

Me too, but such skills seem useless in Tramp's DC. I recall an old underground comix bit showing "leadership training" as eating human shit when so ordered, to know how to similarly break others. Tramp's minions seem fairly well-trained. That's leadership! 22

[Guinastasia]

It's a little outdated, but the Onion had the answer to this:

Black Man Given Nation's Worst Job 23

[Wesley Clark]

Originally Posted by KarlGauss

For anyone who wants to be POTUS:

Do you have any idea the shit they'll dig up on you?

Or the shit they'll make up about you (and the deepfaked docs to prove it)?

Trump is a remoseless sex offender and felon and it didn't stop him in the slightest.

Honestly, considering how radicalized this nation has become the idea of Trumps base disliking the next POTUS would be more of a badge of honor than anything else. 24

[Velocity]

There's a reason many children say they want to be President when they grow up. Sure, they are too young to understand the drawbacks of the position, but it's still one of the greatest, most powerful, most impactful and attention-getting jobs a person could ever possibly get. 25

[Thudlow Boink]

I certainly wouldn't want to be POTUS, now or at any time. But I can imagine plenty of reasons, honorable and dishonorable, why someone (who is different from me) might want to, including:

It's the job their whole life has been leading up to
The fame
The power
The prestige
The opportunity to serve their country
The opportunity to make a difference in the world
The challenge
"Surely I can do a better job than the current occupant of the Oval Office" 26

[puzzlegal]

I wouldn't do it. I would be a really terrible president, and there are lots of aspects of the job I would hate, even if I weren't afraid of making a huge mess of the US. But I can think of lots of reasons a same person would want to do it

Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink

...It's the job their whole life has been leading up to
The fame
The power
The prestige
The opportunity to serve their country
The opportunity to make a difference in the world
The challenge
"Surely I can do a better job than the current occupant of the Oval Office"

The opportunity to make the world a better place
The opportunity to make a TON of money after you are done with the job
At least for a guy, it makes you REALLY sexually attractive. (okay, present president excepted, but in general, power makes a man hot.)
The opportunity to meet lots of interesting people, and have them all care about meeting you.
Great healthcare for the rest of your life. Great security, too. (okay, mostly kidding about those.) 27

[Oredigger77]

I'd love to be president. Honestly, I think I'm qualified today but I don't believe that other people would agree with me enough for me to raise the money necessary to convince people that I'm awesome. Running for president would suck since you have to deal with people going through your background and defending things you did decades ago. Basically, running for president is letting people try and ruin you life if they succeed you get nothing but a ruined life and if they fail you get a great job. That a tought proposition.

Once you're president though things get pretty good. You get access to information and get to make decisions that will change the world. Of course there is stress but every good job has stress. The only real problem with being president is the pay cut by the time people think your qualified for the job 400k per year isn't that much. The life time pension of that 400k makes up for four years of lower earnings. 28

[KarlGauss]

Originally Posted by Oredigger77

Basically, running for president is letting people try and ruin you life if they succeed you get nothing but a ruined life and if they fail you get a great job.

They may fail but they won't give up.

I suppose, though, after four (or eight) years most will have found other targets. 29

[Oredigger77]

Originally Posted by KarlGauss

They may fail but they won't give up.

I suppose, though, after four (or eight) years most will have found other targets.

Ehh, I can't imagine caring about people saying I'm raping babies in the basement of a pizza place or that I'm not an American due to where I was born. In other words being Bill Clinton is a pretty good life being drug through the gutter like Hillary for nothing would suck. 30

[Gatopescado]

I might do it for the healthcare. 31

[thorny locust]

Well in one direction there's this:

Originally Posted by Wesley Clark

It's one of the most prestigious job there is.

The standard of living is better than what a billionaire has access to

Ex presidents easily become multi millionaires. You can make $200,000 a speech in retirement.

You can push your ideological agenda.

You can mold the world.

You have massive power.

but then there's also this:

Originally Posted by Tamerlane

Just focusing on the job itself you have four-eight years on a hot seat, your every move and bowel movement scrutinized in agonizing detail. Despised by large segments of the country, grudgingly tolerated by many others, pathologically adored by a few( those could be the worst ). The constant stress of knowing that even seemingly small decisions you might make might end in a disaster where not only could you be responsible for many deaths, but you could leave a legacy that will haunt an entire country( and you personally ). A life lived in partial confinement, where even wandering out to grab an In-n-Out burger requires either a ridiculous big production or a Get Smart-style incognito raid. God knows how much premature aging.

And then when it is all over after a few short years of being THE MAN you have a continuing lifetime of partial, security-smothered confinement and periodic bursts of intense, intrusive scrutiny. Paparazzi will be haunting you and nutcases will be picking through your garbage until the day you die. And you aren't just inflicting this on yourself, but on your entire family. After you die they'll still be picking through your kid's garbage.

Especially the part about:

Originally Posted by Tamerlane

even seemingly small decisions you might make might end in a disaster where not only could you be responsible for many deaths, but you could leave a legacy that will haunt an entire country

No matter how smart you are, and how well-informed you are, and how great you are at picking advisors: you are almost certainly going to get something wrong.

And people are going to die, because you got it wrong.

Sometimes people are going to die because of what you decided, even if you got it right.

And in some cases, it may not be possible to know for years -- or ever -- whether they died because you got it right, or because you got it wrong. 32

[RioRico]

If installed as president, I promise to serve only long enough for a pension and then to resign and get the hell out of Dodge, maybe to Yucatan to mingle with swamp creatures. 33

[MacTech]

Originally Posted by Ethilrist

Trump has really lowered the bar, so it'd be hard not to look awesome in his wake.

Inanimate Carbon Rod for President!

Vote Rod/Wiggum 2020! 34

[Fugazi]

Also keep in mind that indications show we may be headed for a recession. If the economy tanks, we are fucked. The tools used by the government to fight a recession are usually to cut interest rates, and/or deficit spend to boost the economy. But what are you going to do when interest rates are already low and we're all ready running trillion dollar deficits.

You'll probably spend the 4 years being hated by almost everyone for not being able to fix the unfixable. 35

[Alessan]

Originally Posted by thorny locust

No matter how smart you are, and how well-informed you are, and how great you are at picking advisors: you are almost certainly going to get something wrong.

And people are going to die, because you got it wrong.

Sometimes people are going to die because of what you decided, even if you got it right.

And in some cases, it may not be possible to know for years -- or ever -- whether they died because you got it right, or because you got it wrong.

For a President, hubris isn't a flaw - it's a prerequisite. Even the very best Presidents had a massive ego and an ironclad belief in their own abilities, because otherwise they'd be paralyzed.

That's why, if I were that kind of person, I'd relish serving after Trump. The greater the crisis, the greater the glory. No. 46 will have a shot at being the next FDR. 36

[nightshadea]

I'd think looking at the "before" and "after" pictures of the "winners" would dissuade anyone because why'd you want a job where physically you age that fast in it? 37

[Urbanredneck]

I remember how happy Jimmy Carter looked going being elected in 1980 then look at him just 4 years later with the Iran crisis. 38

[dtilque]

I don't think I'm qualified for the office of president, but if the World Dictator position opens, I'm available. 39

[RioRico]

Originally Posted by dtilque

I don't think I'm qualified for the office of president, but if the World Dictator position opens, I'm available.

You've got it! Now fix global warming before it's too late. Maybe your survivor successor will manage that when if you fail. But have an exit strategy ready. 40

[Velocity]

Originally Posted by dtilque

I don't think I'm qualified for the office of president, but if the World Dictator position opens, I'm available.

Well then you have 10,000 people wanting to assassinate you instead of 500. 41

[Inigo Montoya]

As has been mentioned, #46 will have the easiest presidency ever. Skeletons fabricated/dug out of your closet? Do Not Feed The Trolls--just ignore the reports and they will go away. No need to worry about getting consensus from congress--Obama demonstrated the futility of working with an unrepentantly obstructionist congress, Trump demonstrated that it doesn't have to be a barrier to the agenda. So just put together an innocuous/progressive agenda that feels good in real time to actual citizens and ram that chocolate covered strawberry down the nation's throat, ignore the complainers. All the while your own propaganda machine focuses on celebrating various populations within the USA and their contributions to the overall cultural mosaic in which we live. Suffer no negativity from within the administration--All Americans are fantastic, our motives are the purest, supporters of the previous administration are not to be faulted--they were lied to and conned, Trump and his allies were the real villains. And if the new administration falls short of perfect, meh, just keep doing what you're doing because there'll always be someone who loves you, someone who hates you, and someone who is just happy to not be going off to war. 42

[dtilque]

Originally Posted by Velocity

Well then you have 10,000 people wanting to assassinate you instead of 500.

Only 10,000? I must be doing a good job. 43

[Loach]

Originally Posted by Velocity

It's a position of tremendous power and influence. The pay - $400,000 a year - would be considered fantastic by 99% of Americans. You get to fly aboard the VC-25. You get to enact - or, at least - try to enact whatever policies you've always wanted to see happen but never happened. You eat great food. You get access to classified secrets that many yearn to know but will never know. You leave your mark on history. You get books written about you, any tweet or Facebook post you make will be read by millions..........

What's not to like?

400k seems like a great salary to me until I found out that they don’t live in the White House completely free. There are considerable expenses. Of course you can make up for it later. Even presidents like Clinton and Obama who were of relatively modest means can leave the WH as millionaires. Being president has to suck on many levels but being ex-president is the best job in the world. 44

[robby]

Originally Posted by Urbanredneck

I remember how happy Jimmy Carter looked going being elected in 1980 then look at him just 4 years later with the Iran crisis.

That's funny...I remember Ronald Reagan getting elected in 1980. 45

[thorny locust]

Originally Posted by Alessan

For a President, hubris isn't a flaw - it's a prerequisite. Even the very best Presidents had a massive ego and an ironclad belief in their own abilities, because otherwise they'd be paralyzed.

True. That's part of the problem. Anybody we elect is going to be at least somewhat like that; because nobody else is even going to run.

I've been unable to think of a way to write into law a requirement that wanting the office disqualifies a person from holding it. If I could figure out how to write it, I'd have been arguing for it -- though you may have a point that someone with insufficient hubris to willingly run might also be unable to function in the office. I hadn't thought of that. 46

[Mundane Super Hero]

“Be not afraid of greatness. Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and others have greatness thrust upon them.”
- Shakespeare

"I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody."
-Lily Tomlin 47

[Urbanredneck]

When Sarah Palin was put in as a VP candidate they the next day 150 reporters showed up at the small town in Alaska where she lived. They interviewed everyone they could to dig up any dirt she had on her.

I think that has been what has scared off some worthy potential presidents - the knowledge they will sift thru your, your spouse, and all your families AND your ancestors past to find anything they can. Remember when they brought up how Arnold Schwarzenegger's father was a nazi. Remember when they made a deal of Jimmy Cater's brother Billy's drinking? Remember the fact Hillary had been to Trumps wedding?

Oh and they will go after your business associates AND your kids associates. Remember how they went after Obama's pastor?

And it doesnt matter how long ago or how old you were. Remember how they brought up a charge against a supreme court nominee that happened 34 years earlier when he was 17?

So maybe they did something stupid in their past and dont want it brought up. 48

[Shodan]

Originally Posted by rsat3acr

so I could appoint people to the Supreme Court that used the Constitution not the bible to rule on cases.

The Senate might have something to say about that.

Which is kind of the issue. Maybe I have the greatest ideas in the world (I don't) but it's President, not Dictator. Getting your agenda enacted is the definition of success in a President. And -

Originally Posted by Warren G Harding

I have no trouble with my enemies. I can take care of my enemies in a fight. But my friends, my goddamned friends, they're the ones who keep me walking the floor at nights!

Originally Posted by Ethilrist

Trump has really lowered the bar, so it'd be hard not to look awesome in his wake.

I don't think people generally refer to Jerry Ford as an awesome President.

If Pence is the next POTUS, the Democrats will go after him just as hard as they did Trump, and for the same reasons. If Biden or Warren or Pelosi is the next POTUS, the Republicans will go after them just as hard as the Democrats did against Trump, and for the same reasons.

I could never be President, for a wide variety of reasons. I don't want to be President, for those reasons and a lot more.

Regards,
Shodan 49

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally Posted by Shodan

I don't think people generally refer to Jerry Ford as an awesome President.

And for good reason: he was a vile piece of shit who only ended up in the White House because he chose to work for a slightly more vile piece of shit. He received far fewer votes than even Trump. 50