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  #701  
Old 07-26-2010, 06:25 PM
Staver808 is offline
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Sorry, I'm completely new to playing guitar, and was trying to look through the posts to see if this was already answered, but to be honest almost everything in the first 3 pages was completely over my head. So I play a little acustic guitar. Took a couple classes, but mainly played for a couple months with some people I met in school. We'd meet at someone's house get the grill going, chill a few beers, and just play different stuff, anything goes, kanakapila Sundays kind of thing. To be honest, the most fun I had and I learned a lot, but almost everyone was just here for college so when a bunch of them moved back home, I haven't had a chance to play at all. Sorry for the background, jsut so you know where I'm coming from.

So here's the question, and they're really basic, but:

1. I can't tell how people can listen to a song and say oh, that's an F chord. Is this something that will come with time or am I tone deaf? How would I know if I was tone deaf? To clarify, if someone just plays a random chord, I wouldn't know what it was, but if someone tells me it's an E, and then plays another E, I can tell that it's an E. I can't tell if it's flat, sharp, or higher/lower pitched, etc. Just that it sounds like an E, and I'm not always right.

2. Asuming I'm not tone deaf, is there a way to train my ear to hear the difference, or is this just something that will come to me with time?

3. How do I tell what (I don't know if this is the right word) scale I'm in? I know how to tune my guitar to itself, and while I can't hear the difference between the E chord I'm playing and someone else is playing. To me, it sounds the same, but most everyone else can tell I'm too high or too low. Is there a trick to this? I know I'm not in tune with others because I can feel the vibration in the guitar when we both play the same chord, but I have no idea how to tell if I'm higher or lower than them. basically, right now, I play the chord, and adjust, if the vibration gets worse, I tune the other way until it's gone. However the entire time, aside from the buzz, I couldn't tell the difference.

4. Will an electronic guitar tuner help with this?

5. I have a hard time with a lot of the chords because I have short, fat fingers. Are there certain guitars outt here with smaller or thinner necks I should be looking at? Some of the posts I read seemed to imply as much, but I wasn't sure if it'd make a difference. Am I destined to be a subpar player because I don't have the right hands? I was looking at "Tears in Heaven" and Clapton has this insane F chord that uses his thumb. o_O This is impossible for me to play because I need to drop my thumb t the bottom of the neck to get my hand in the right place to play the F chord. Does this mean I should just give up the hobby as I'll never be able to play properly?

6. What do people mean when they say this guitar has a fast fingerboard?

7. Is there a major difference between electric and acoustic guitars playstyle wise, or will I be able to pick up and elctric with no problem? The reason I ask, is I'd like to be able to play the elctric later, and should I get one now if they require a different skill set to play?

Again, sorry for the simplistic questions, especially if they were asked before, but I honestly don't know enough about guitars or know anyone that does either to give me a honest answer to these questions.
  #702  
Old 07-26-2010, 08:05 PM
Jet Jaguar is offline
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Originally Posted by WordMan View Post
Irrelevant hijack - hey E-Sabs, have you noticed that your humble little GOGT is getting scary-close to 100,000 views? Clearly it is getting more reads than posts - join the conversation folks!
Well, I've been lurking in this thread from time-to-time, but I've only been learning to play for the past year and a half so I haven't posted anything because I don't really feel qualified to talk about guitars and I don't like posting unless I think I have something to add.
  #703  
Old 07-26-2010, 08:10 PM
Sam Stone is offline
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Originally Posted by E-Sabbath View Post
A thread in which we learn, Y Kant Tori Read sheet music. But Sam Stone can and is amazed other people can't.

Also, the subject of gearhead versus other guitar magazines show up. Which is a good question. What _are_ good guitar magazines these days? What are these magazines Sam lists that are full of musical theory?
Okay, so I went back into the Sam Stone magazine archives (my wife hates those!), and dug out a few different magazines at random. Bear in mind that most of my guitar mags date back to the 1990's. But here's what's in them:

"Guitar World" - Oct 1992.

- Sheet music/tab for Eric Clapton's "Wonderful Tonight"
- A column by Wolf Marshall on rock theory - "Triads, Part 4". He talks about harmonic rhythm, chord theory, etc. It's documented with sheet music, tab, and chord notation.
- A breakdown of Springsteen's "Born to Run", notated in sheet music and tab.

"Guitar (For the Practicing Musician)" - June 1989
- Transcriptions in standard music notation and tab for a bunch of songs.
- An article on two-handed bends, with exercises notated in standard music notation and tab
- An analysis of Peter Buck's guitar style, in standard notation and tab
- "Bass Secrets" - Pentatonic scales, Pt. 2. A bunch of scale exercises and description of pentatonic scales, with exercises notated in standard notation and tab
- "Guitar Secrets with Joe Satriani" - Harmonized Minor Pentatonic. Joe covers the A minor Pentatonic scale, and provides exercises in standard notation and tab

"Total Guitar", June 1997
There's tons of stuff in this one. This magazine is an import, and comes with a CD of backing tracks for the songs and licks in the mag. The magazine has performance notes for each one with sheet music and tab, sometimes accompanied by music theory describing what's going on in the song. There's an article on Jazz chord theory for beginners, with sheet music and tab. An article on blues chord progressions, and at the back of the magazine a complete tutorial for reading sheet music and tab, and how they relate to each other.

Guitar Player - Sept 1996
- An article on fingerstyle walking blues
- Theory on Whole-Half Step scales
- Chromatic fingerstyle turnarounds
- Cycles a l a Mode, a theory article by Alex Skolnick talking about the seven modes of the major scale

All of those notated with sheet music and tab

"Acoustic Guitar" - June 1995

Not as much music in this one - a couple of song transcriptions, an article on the "Hawaiian Slack-Key Masters" with sheet music/tab illustrating techniques, and a few other technique articles.

This is a representative sample, and pretty much all my magazines follow this pattern - a few theory articles, a few song transcriptions, an artist profile with some licks or partial song transcriptions, etc.

I have new guitar mags as well, and I don't remember them being much different than the older ones. But my guitar mag buying really dropped off as more information became available on the internet.

Now, almost everything that has standard notation has tab under it, but some of the articles on theory have music snippets are pure standard notation with no tabs. So while a guitarist can certainly pick up these magazines and learn a lot from the tab notation and never learn sheet music, I would think that anyone who reads this stuff seriously would pick up an awful lot. Certainly enough to recognize major and minor scales, to know the names of the notes, to recognize the key signatures, and other stuff like that. But not necessarily be able to sight-read standard notation and play it.
  #704  
Old 07-26-2010, 11:02 PM
Le Ministre de l'au-delà is offline
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Originally Posted by Staver808 View Post
Sorry, I'm completely new to playing guitar... {snip}
Don't be sorry at all - pull up a chair and make yourself at home. If you don't ask questions, you won't learn what you don't already know.


Quote:
1. I can't tell how people can listen to a song and say oh, that's an F chord. Is this something that will come with time or am I tone deaf? How would I know if I was tone deaf? To clarify, if someone just plays a random chord, I wouldn't know what it was, but if someone tells me it's an E, and then plays another E, I can tell that it's an E. I can't tell if it's flat, sharp, or higher/lower pitched, etc. Just that it sounds like an E, and I'm not always right.
Do you mean with the guitar in your hand? Or do you mean with no other frame of reference at all? There are people who have perfect pitch (The Master Speaks) but the rest of us can't do much more than give a good guess when we hear a pitch or a chord without some means of comparing it to a note which we know. (Tuning fork, guitar, piano - something where we can play a note and say 'Okay, that's an 'A', and the note I hear is a minor third below that (Think of the first two pitches of 'The Star Spangled Banner - o-o say...) so then I know I'm hearing an F# in this example.)

If you mean that you are playing an 'E' (major) chord and someone else is playing an 'F' (major) chord, then the answer is 'There is a difference that you might need to train yourself to hear.'


Quote:
2. Asuming I'm not tone deaf, is there a way to train my ear to hear the difference, or is this just something that will come to me with time?
Yes, you can accelerate the process by taking Ear Training. It is also something that comes in time, but it doesn't hurt to work on it. I'd suggest to start with the intervals between single notes and then move into chords.

The PC version of 'Band in a Box' had some ear training software bundled with it, but I haven't mucked with it since I went Mac a few years ago. I'm also not sure what BiaB costs these days, and whether that ear training software is bundled with the basic package. I'll have a look-see to find out what's out there for Ear Training stuff - get back to you in a while...

Quote:
3. How do I tell what (I don't know if this is the right word) scale I'm in? I know how to tune my guitar to itself, and while I can't hear the difference between the E chord I'm playing and someone else is playing. To me, it sounds the same, but most everyone else can tell I'm too high or too low. Is there a trick to this? I know I'm not in tune with others because I can feel the vibration in the guitar when we both play the same chord, but I have no idea how to tell if I'm higher or lower than them. basically, right now, I play the chord, and adjust, if the vibration gets worse, I tune the other way until it's gone. However the entire time, aside from the buzz, I couldn't tell the difference.
I'm not quite sure I get you here - do you mean you have trouble telling if you're in tune with other players even though you think the guitar is in tune with itself?

Quote:
4. Will an electronic guitar tuner help with this?
Umm. An electronic tuner will help you keep your instrument in tune. It will help keep the group's instruments in tune with each other.

It will not help you develop your ear for fine tuning, which it sounds like you could use some work on. (Apologies if I've got the wrong impression.) It's better, in my opinion, to develop your sense of tuning by starting with a reference pitch and tuning your guitar to itself from there.

Experiment with it - this is something I have done with my students. I tune their guitars for them for the first couple of months, but I do it in front of them, and I make them listen. Then, after a couple of months, I deliberately mis-tune one string before I hand it back to them. They have to figure out which string is out, and which way it needs to go. I'm right there, and I warn them when a string might snap from them tuning it too high.

Then again, if you're going to muck with tuning it on your own, you might want the tuner so you can quickly correct any mistakes. They're pretty easy to get these days - most iPhones, iPods, BlackBerries and other shackles of Satan communications devices have applications that will work like tuners. I have a combination tuner/metronome that cost about $40 that has worked out very well.

Quote:
5. I have a hard time with a lot of the chords because I have short, fat fingers. Are there certain guitars outt here with smaller or thinner necks I should be looking at? Some of the posts I read seemed to imply as much, but I wasn't sure if it'd make a difference. Am I destined to be a subpar player because I don't have the right hands? I was looking at "Tears in Heaven" and Clapton has this insane F chord that uses his thumb. o_O This is impossible for me to play because I need to drop my thumb t the bottom of the neck to get my hand in the right place to play the F chord. Does this mean I should just give up the hobby as I'll never be able to play properly?
It does not mean you should give up. Not everyone does thumb wraps. I almost never wrap my thumb around the back, even in playing pieces where the original guitarist did. It has to suit your hand, not somebody else's.

All I can say is try out as many different guitars as you can to see how they feel. My fingers aren't particularly fat, but they are quite short. For all that, I prefer a wide neck - 2 inches at the nut - so that my fingers don't accidentally 'clam' an open string.

(By the way, if you're playing 'Tears in Heaven' in the same key as Clapton, there is no F major chord. I'm assuming you mean the D/F# (D major with an F# in the bass) or the passage that goes f# minor to C# major/E# to A/E to f# minor? There are ways of fingering all of that so you use your four fingers and not your thumb.)

Quote:
6. What do people mean when they say this guitar has a fast fingerboard?
That the guitar is set up in such a way that they find it easy and comfortable to play fast single-note passages, I'd assume. It'd be easier to ask the person who says that what it is they find 'fast' about that fingerboard - it can be radically different for different people.

Quote:
7. Is there a major difference between electric and acoustic guitars playstyle wise, or will I be able to pick up and elctric with no problem? The reason I ask, is I'd like to be able to play the elctric later, and should I get one now if they require a different skill set to play?
I'll let others speak for themselves, but I know that many people who contribute regularly to these threads find that electric guitars are easier to play, in terms of how they feel to your hands.

Quote:
Again, sorry for the simplistic questions, especially if they were asked before, but I honestly don't know enough about guitars or know anyone that does either to give me a honest answer to these questions.
Not at all - in case you hadn't noticed, I love to talk about guitar, and I'm not alone in that. We can always use another guitarist around here.

Last edited by Le Ministre de l'au-delà; 07-26-2010 at 11:03 PM.
  #705  
Old 07-26-2010, 11:27 PM
E-Sabbath is offline
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Originally Posted by WordMan View Post
Irrelevant hijack - hey E-Sabs, have you noticed that your humble little GOGT is getting scary-close to 100,000 views? Clearly it is getting more reads than posts - join the conversation folks!
Awesome! Wait, are you sure it's not just me refreshing like a monkey?

Okay, so my guitar gets weirder and weirder.
I've established that I have two guitars. The Pig, and this.
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-5020611...7_2111_8982905 (picture), the XV-585
http://store.guitarfetish.com/xaxvchcamaso.html (description)
Now, this guitar has been a source of puzzlement to me since I got it. Not that it's bad. It's fantastic. But... it's odd. It's a Les Paul copy, right? Not really. It's chambered, it doesn't sound like a LP at all.
http://store.guitarfetish.com/xvso3matoflm.html This, the XV-500, not the 585, is the LP copy. I decided to re-read the copy on the 585 today, as I was ordering my pickguard for the Pig.
I was amused to realize that yes, it does say the neck is thinner than a LP. This is something I've noticed on my own.
But the other oddness on it is the pickups. Why a P90 at the neck and a humbucker at the bridge? Well, re-reading, I noticed something that ties in to what we've been discussing.
Quote:
We've put our vintage themed GFS VEH pickup in the bridge and our acclaimed GFS Alnico Soapbar P90 in the neck. You get both classic rock power and creamy blues tones in one amazingly versatile guitar.
Bridge... classic rock power... VEH. Van Eddie Halen? It's a stretch... but they sell that humbucker as parts. http://store.guitarfetish.com/veviexhotzep.html
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-5020611...7_2110_7079283 They put the picture in front of a Diver Down flag. Okayyy, that's a little hint as to what they're indicating. Then I read the copy.
Quote:
Everybody Wants Some... some of Eddies early 80's tone that is. You know what I mean.. the big, round BROWN sound... A Marshall head about to explode...variac cranked...bridge humbucker hitting that first 12AX7 HARD...big, fat and round...yet somehow ALSO clean and clear and ridiculously articulate. Did he rewind an old Gibson pickup?? Who knows what the truth is.
Well. Thaaat would explain that, wouldn't it. So, I've got a thin-necked, LP-like, guitar, designed for speed playing, with a Van Halen like bridge and a blues neck. Man, I'm gonna have to grow a lot to be worthy of playing this thing, aren't I?
Still, it's really _neat_ how what you guys said made sense out of some puzzlement I've had over why a guitar would be built this way. (Apparently, it is that good: a friend's already tried to buy it off me for an offer of a few-couple bucks over what I paid.)
Still, it's not a LP copy at all, it just looks like one.
http://store.guitarfetish.com/veviexhotzep.html Sounds like the MP3s in here, though. Sort of. I can see the _potential_ for it to sound like this, I just don't know what to stuff it through to make it do that. Right now, I'm getting the Clean sound pretty right, though.
  #706  
Old 07-26-2010, 11:30 PM
E-Sabbath is offline
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Originally Posted by Staver808 View Post
Sorry, I'm completely new to playing guitar, and was trying to look through the posts to see if this was already answered, but to be honest almost everything in the first 3 pages was completely over my head.
If you notice, Staver, I started in pretty much a worse position than you. I'd had some lessons about (mumble) years ago, and was basically restarting from scratch. Read on through, dive in, and look for my posts: I'm the one asking 'stupid' questions, and Wordman and Squee and the rest have been kindly replying.
  #707  
Old 07-26-2010, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Staver808 View Post
1. I can't tell how people can listen to a song and say oh, that's an F chord. Is this something that will come with time or am I tone deaf? How would I know if I was tone deaf? To clarify, if someone just plays a random chord, I wouldn't know what it was, but if someone tells me it's an E, and then plays another E, I can tell that it's an E. I can't tell if it's flat, sharp, or higher/lower pitched, etc. Just that it sounds like an E, and I'm not always right.

4. Will an electronic guitar tuner help with this?

7. Is there a major difference between electric and acoustic guitars playstyle wise, or will I be able to pick up and elctric with no problem? The reason I ask, is I'd like to be able to play the elctric later, and should I get one now if they require a different skill set to play?
1: I was kinda wondering this in the shower this morning myself.
4: There are two kinds of tuners. The kind that just show the EADGBE (Eddie Ate Dynamite, Good Bye Eddie) and Chromatic Tuners. Get a Chromatic Tuner, the Korg CA-1 is pretty standard, like $20, it shows you all possible notes, and is _much_ easier to tune with.

7: Playing electric is much easier than acoustic, I'm told. Physically. Learning... there are different techniques, but focus on one, and swap to the other later, you'll pick up the differences fairly easily, god knows everyone else seems to have.
  #708  
Old 07-26-2010, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
1. I can't tell how people can listen to a song and say oh, that's an F chord. Is this something that will come with time or am I tone deaf? How would I know if I was tone deaf? To clarify, if someone just plays a random chord, I wouldn't know what it was, but if someone tells me it's an E, and then plays another E, I can tell that it's an E. I can't tell if it's flat, sharp, or higher/lower pitched, etc. Just that it sounds like an E, and I'm not always right.

2. Asuming I'm not tone deaf, is there a way to train my ear to hear the difference, or is this just something that will come to me with time?
I can't always tell exactly what key something is in, but once I do know, I can figure out what the rest of it is, by listening for the differences, the invervals. You get so you can just know that this chord followed that one, by how they sound in relation to each other. It's easier than I'm making it sound, it just takes a little time and practice.
Quote:
I play the chord, and adjust, if the vibration gets worse, I tune the other way until it's gone. However the entire time, aside from the buzz, I couldn't tell the difference.

4. Will an electronic guitar tuner help with this?
Maybe. I use them so I don't have to deal with the noise around me.
Quote:
5. I have a hard time with a lot of the chords because I have short, fat fingers. Are there certain guitars out here with smaller or thinner necks I should be looking at? Some of the posts I read seemed to imply as much, but I wasn't sure if it'd make a difference. Am I destined to be a subpar player because I don't have the right hands? I was looking at "Tears in Heaven" and Clapton has this insane F chord that uses his thumb.
As you keep playing, you can and will have an easier time of it. Also, don't be afraid to use a different "inversion" of the chord. There's more than one way to play the chord, and you will want to learn them. Again, it takes a little practice but it will make sense. It's funny, but a lot of people seem to prefer big "baseball bat" necks. They may have big beefy fingers, to the point where they can't stand a skinny neck.
Quote:
6. What do people mean when they say this guitar has a fast fingerboard?
Opinion time: Unless you plan to be a "shredder", don't even worry about this. It probably won't matter to you for a long long time, if ever. Example: Various guitars, some Ibanez for example, are reputed to be very fast so to speak. Yet, there are people who are plenty fast and can't stand these boards / necks. Some of the most famous "shredding" happened before the fast shred guitars even existed. Quite often, these recordings were done on an old beat up Fender with a "slow" baseball bat for a neck (Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray Vaughan, etc etc).
Quote:
7. Is there a major difference between electric and acoustic guitars play style wise, or will I be able to pick up and electric with no problem? The reason I ask, is I'd like to be able to play the electric later, and should I get one now if they require a different skill set to play?
Again my opinion: If you can play an acoustic and play it well, an electric will be easy. Why? It will be you playing, and not relying on effects or gimmicks, or "riding the gain" to cover up sloppiness. It's the same skill set. As we say on another board, one devoted to guitars, The Tone Is In Your Fingers.
  #709  
Old 07-26-2010, 11:54 PM
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So I went to the E-Sabbath guitar magazine library, and discovered... I had like four, and only one's left. One copy of Guitar World from 1994, and the sheet music to Pretty Woman. It's a pretty good Guitar World, though, it's got a lot of Who songs and some Nirvana. And a Pantera clinic.
Wonder where the other magazines went. I think I must have pulled them out when I started learning again, and put them somewhere safe. Is Guitar World still decent?
  #710  
Old 07-27-2010, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Staver808 View Post
Sorry, I'm completely new to playing guitar
Why apologize? Welcome! Jump right in!

Quote:
1. I can't tell how people can listen to a song and say oh, that's an F chord. Is this something that will come with time or am I tone deaf? How would I know if I was tone deaf? To clarify, if someone just plays a random chord, I wouldn't know what it was, but if someone tells me it's an E, and then plays another E, I can tell that it's an E. I can't tell if it's flat, sharp, or higher/lower pitched, etc. Just that it sounds like an E, and I'm not always right.
2. Asuming I'm not tone deaf, is there a way to train my ear to hear the difference, or is this just something that will come to me with time?
I think this is a technique that you pick up after a while, although it's never perfect. For your basic open major chords, you can listen for the fundamental, the bass note that's the root of the chord. Some examples, all open chords -- for open E, the root is the open E string, the sixth and lowest string. For open D it's the fourth string. For A, it's the fifth string. You get the idea -- the lowest played string in an open chord is almost always the chord name. That might get you started, but there's a lot more ear-smarts that you build up over time as you listen to different guitar progressions. Give it time. Also, I think very very few people listen to music and says "Oh, that's an F". What they do, and you should do, is listen to the song while holding a guitar and fiddle around to find out what chord matches what they're hearing.

It's a skill, it comes with time.

Quote:
3. How do I tell what (I don't know if this is the right word) scale I'm in? I know how to tune my guitar to itself, and while I can't hear the difference between the E chord I'm playing and someone else is playing. To me, it sounds the same, but most everyone else can tell I'm too high or too low. Is there a trick to this? I know I'm not in tune with others because I can feel the vibration in the guitar when we both play the same chord, but I have no idea how to tell if I'm higher or lower than them. basically, right now, I play the chord, and adjust, if the vibration gets worse, I tune the other way until it's gone. However the entire time, aside from the buzz, I couldn't tell the difference.
I'm not sure what you mean here -- are you talking about how to tell if your tuning is correct, or if you're playing the same chord as someone nearby? If it's the former, go buy a tuner, they're really very cheap and very helpful. If it's the latter, I'm not sure what to tell you except look at the other person's hands on the guitar to see if you're playing what they're playing.

Quote:
4. Will an electronic guitar tuner help with this?
Asked and answered -- yes, go get one now. Also learn the technique of tuning your guitar given one correct pitch (comparing low-E or A are a common method). Tuning.

Quote:
5. I have a hard time with a lot of the chords because I have short, fat fingers. Are there certain guitars outt here with smaller or thinner necks I should be looking at?
Yes, there is a wide variation in neck shape and size. Acoustics tend to have wider necks and higher action (the distance from the string to the neck), electrics have narrower necks (but again a wide variation) and lower action.

Quote:
Am I destined to be a subpar player because I don't have the right hands?
No. Look at Django Reinhardt, who managed to play with two fingers after a disfiguring injury. You can play fine with your fingers, just don't get discouraged and keep playing, that's all that matters.

Quote:
I was looking at "Tears in Heaven" and Clapton has this insane F chord that uses his thumb.
This chord? If the thumb is a problem, just forget the low-e string fretted with your thumb, don't fret it and don't pick that string. It'll sound fine.

Quote:
Does this mean I should just give up the hobby as I'll never be able to play properly?
No. You're just in that miserable early stage where everything about an instrument seems impossible. Everyone goes through this. Persevere! You can do it, and it's worth it, and you'll have to trust me but it'll actually become fun eventually. Really!

Quote:
6. What do people mean when they say this guitar has a fast fingerboard?
They mean the neck is narrower or the neck has less depth, or something along those lines. What they really mean is the neck suits their hands well. Someone else may use that neck and disagree. A "fast" neck is specific to a given player, and that neck may work for them and not for you.

Quote:
7. Is there a major difference between electric and acoustic guitars playstyle wise, or will I be able to pick up and elctric with no problem?
There are huge differences, but most of them would work in your favor. As WordMan would put it, on electric you spend 50% of your time making sure some notes sound, and 50% that some do NOT sound.

Quote:
The reason I ask, is I'd like to be able to play the elctric later, and should I get one now if they require a different skill set to play?
It's a pretty personal choice. I'd say you should go try one and see if you like it.
  #711  
Old 07-27-2010, 02:05 AM
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Wow, in the space of one hour Staver808 got a firehose of responses to his questions about beginning guitar. Thread mission accomplished! Staver808, please follow up with more questions as needed, you're most welcome here.
  #712  
Old 07-27-2010, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Jet Jaguar View Post
Well, I've been lurking in this thread from time-to-time, but I've only been learning to play for the past year and a half so I haven't posted anything because I don't really feel qualified to talk about guitars and I don't like posting unless I think I have something to add.
Part of why this is an ongoing thread is to centralize all the other threads that show up. And part of why this is ongoing is to document the learning process people have for other people. Go on and ask some stupid questions. It can't hurt any.

Last edited by E-Sabbath; 07-27-2010 at 06:11 AM.
  #713  
Old 07-27-2010, 06:14 AM
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Irrelevant hijack - hey E-Sabs, have you noticed that your humble little GOGT is getting scary-close to 100,000 views? Clearly it is getting more reads than posts - join the conversation folks!
Argh! I've been busy (still am, fracking XPath) I was planning on a post on guitar cross-training - how practicing (say) classical stuff can suggest new rock options. Sounds obvious but I have got some some crossover improvement playing lead electric rock stuff from praticing accoustic ragtime, didn't expect that.

Back with a proper essay when I have time...
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Old 07-27-2010, 07:22 AM
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Irrelevant hijack - hey E-Sabs, have you noticed that your humble little GOGT is getting scary-close to 100,000 views? Clearly it is getting more reads than posts - join the conversation folks!
Well, I've been lurking in this thread from time-to-time, but I've only been learning to play for the past year and a half so I haven't posted anything because I don't really feel qualified to talk about guitars and I don't like posting unless I think I have something to add.
Entirely fair - thanks for pointing that out and welcome to lurking; we'd love to hear from you, especially if we are over-geeking and not bringing you along.
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Old 07-27-2010, 07:46 AM
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Irrelevant hijack - hey E-Sabs, have you noticed that your humble little GOGT is getting scary-close to 100,000 views? Clearly it is getting more reads than posts - join the conversation folks!
Argh! I've been busy (still am, fracking XPath) I was planning on a post on guitar cross-training - how practicing (say) classical stuff can suggest new rock options. Sounds obvious but I have got some some crossover improvement playing lead electric rock stuff from praticing accoustic ragtime, didn't expect that.

Back with a proper essay when I have time...
Cool - sounds interesting. I don't know what XPath it, but good luck with that, too.

As for Staver - jeez, what good inputs, hope it helps you. Nothing to add. And while hearing from varying levels of players was particularly insightful, special kudos to Le Ministre - what are you, a professional musician and teacher or something? (for newbies - yes, yes he is).

E-Sabs - excellent research and connecting-the-dots regarding your guitar. I know nothing about that brand other than what I have heard (supposed to be decent, like a good Agile or Edwards), but your Sherlock conclusions are sound. Have you played any VH on the guitar? And? Also - pick the neck pickup, put the Volume at about 8-9 and roll the tone completely off. Play Sunshine of Your Love by Cream (through a gained-up amp, of course). Report. You like? Sound like the real song in a good way? If not, what's different?

Last edited by WordMan; 07-27-2010 at 07:48 AM.
  #716  
Old 07-27-2010, 08:22 AM
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Irrelevant hijack...
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Originally Posted by WordMan
I don't know what XPath it, but good luck with that, too.
Here's the XPath to the quote link in your post /html/body[1]/div[@id='posts']/div[16]/div/div/div[@id='edit12731256']/table[@id='post12731256']/tbody/tr[3]/td[@id='td_post_12731256']/div[3]/a/img The stuff I'm having to play with is worse.

Quote:
and roll the tone completely off. Play Sunshine of Your Love by Cream (through a gained-up amp, of course)
The 'Woman Tone' never made sense to me until very recently, the trick is a really really overdriven (valve) amp. All the harmonics come from the amp, and yes, for me it does sound just like the record. Of course when I first read about it and tried it out I was playing a Telecaster. Good luck getting a woman tone out of that.
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Old 07-27-2010, 08:26 AM
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Here's the XPath to the quote link in your post /html/body[1]/div[@id='posts']/div[16]/div/div/div[@id='edit12731256']/table[@id='post12731256']/tbody/tr[3]/td[@id='td_post_12731256']/div[3]/a/img The stuff I'm having to play with is worse.
I undestand none of that, but I feel strangely compelled to buy you a pizza.

Quote:
The 'Woman Tone' never made sense to me until very recently, the trick is a really really overdriven (valve) amp. All the harmonics come from the amp, and yes, for me it does sound just like the record. Of course when I first read about it and tried it out I was playing a Telecaster. Good luck getting a woman tone out of that.
That's why I dropped in a humbucker-sized P-90 into my two homebrew Tele's

And as for overdrive - yes, you need a very gained-up amp, but at that point, I really dial in the Volume on my guitar. There's a fine line between overdrive and out-of-control; I try to find that line. The difference between 9 and 9.5 with my on-board Volume control can be HUGE...
  #718  
Old 07-27-2010, 09:12 AM
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Irrelevant hijack...
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I don't know what XPath it, but good luck with that, too.
Here's the XPath to the quote link in your post /html/body[1]/div[@id='posts']/div[16]/div/div/div[@id='edit12731256']/table[@id='post12731256']/tbody/tr[3]/td[@id='td_post_12731256']/div[3]/a/img The stuff I'm having to play with is worse.
My sympathies - I had thought that XPath was some video game/computer game system to which you had developed an addiction. That looks significantly less fun than what I'd come up with.

On the other hand, that also looks like one of 'those' chords that, by the time you've figured them out, the piece is long over.

ETA - How interesting - when you put that thing in a quote box, it makes Safari open up a horizontal scroll bar at the bottom rather than break the word. Is that what it's supposed to do? And what happens when I click this li

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  #719  
Old 07-27-2010, 09:30 AM
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Have you played any VH on the guitar? And? Also - pick the neck pickup, put the Volume at about 8-9 and roll the tone completely off. Play Sunshine of Your Love by Cream (through a gained-up amp, of course). Report. You like? Sound like the real song in a good way? If not, what's different?
You, ah, overstate my abilities considerably.
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Old 07-27-2010, 09:44 AM
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Have you played any VH on the guitar? And? Also - pick the neck pickup, put the Volume at about 8-9 and roll the tone completely off. Play Sunshine of Your Love by Cream (through a gained-up amp, of course). Report. You like? Sound like the real song in a good way? If not, what's different?
You, ah, overstate my abilities considerably.
No way. Play Sunshine on 1 string - look at the opening riff here - do able.

AND - this particular youtube lesson is revealing - why? Because his tone SUCKS! Just listen to it - tight, nasally, waspy - argh! Hurts my ears!! Now listen to this guy - maybe not as good of a youtube instructor, and he could have more gain on his amp, but listen to that tone - far, far more pleasing to the ear: rich, warm, tubey....

TONE MATTERS!
  #721  
Old 07-27-2010, 10:17 AM
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Will try. Hm. Hey, how many songs can you play on one string? I think Miserlou is playable on one string.
  #722  
Old 07-27-2010, 10:22 AM
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Will try. Hm. Hey, how many songs can you play on one string? I think Miserlou is playable on one string.
There was a thread earlier where I was asserting that one-string rock-outs are important because you are practicing groove, which is just as important as practicing chord forms or scales.

Any cool rock riff can sound good on one string, but obvious ones like the Peter Gunn theme (youtube example featuring the immortal Roy Buchanan), AC/DC's TNT or Whole Lotta Rosie, which are the same as Muddy Water's Mannish Boy; Smoke on the Water - all the major riff groups...

Last edited by WordMan; 07-27-2010 at 10:24 AM.
  #723  
Old 07-28-2010, 12:15 AM
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A thread in which we learn, Y Kant Tori Read sheet music. But Sam Stone can and is amazed other people can't.

Also, the subject of gearhead versus other guitar magazines show up. Which is a good question. What _are_ good guitar magazines these days? What are these magazines Sam lists that are full of musical theory?
Okay, so I went back into the Sam Stone magazine archives (my wife hates those!), and dug out a few different magazines at random. Bear in mind that most of my guitar mags date back to the 1990's. But here's what's in them:

"Guitar World" - Oct 1992.

- Sheet music/tab for Eric Clapton's "Wonderful Tonight"
- A column by Wolf Marshall on rock theory - "Triads, Part 4". He talks about harmonic rhythm, chord theory, etc. It's documented with sheet music, tab, and chord notation.
- A breakdown of Springsteen's "Born to Run", notated in sheet music and tab.

"Guitar (For the Practicing Musician)" - June 1989
- Transcriptions in standard music notation and tab for a bunch of songs.
- An article on two-handed bends, with exercises notated in standard music notation and tab
- An analysis of Peter Buck's guitar style, in standard notation and tab
- "Bass Secrets" - Pentatonic scales, Pt. 2. A bunch of scale exercises and description of pentatonic scales, with exercises notated in standard notation and tab
- "Guitar Secrets with Joe Satriani" - Harmonized Minor Pentatonic. Joe covers the A minor Pentatonic scale, and provides exercises in standard notation and tab

"Total Guitar", June 1997
There's tons of stuff in this one. This magazine is an import, and comes with a CD of backing tracks for the songs and licks in the mag. The magazine has performance notes for each one with sheet music and tab, sometimes accompanied by music theory describing what's going on in the song. There's an article on Jazz chord theory for beginners, with sheet music and tab. An article on blues chord progressions, and at the back of the magazine a complete tutorial for reading sheet music and tab, and how they relate to each other.

Guitar Player - Sept 1996
- An article on fingerstyle walking blues
- Theory on Whole-Half Step scales
- Chromatic fingerstyle turnarounds
- Cycles a l a Mode, a theory article by Alex Skolnick talking about the seven modes of the major scale

All of those notated with sheet music and tab

"Acoustic Guitar" - June 1995

Not as much music in this one - a couple of song transcriptions, an article on the "Hawaiian Slack-Key Masters" with sheet music/tab illustrating techniques, and a few other technique articles.

This is a representative sample, and pretty much all my magazines follow this pattern - a few theory articles, a few song transcriptions, an artist profile with some licks or partial song transcriptions, etc.

I have new guitar mags as well, and I don't remember them being much different than the older ones. But my guitar mag buying really dropped off as more information became available on the internet.

Now, almost everything that has standard notation has tab under it, but some of the articles on theory have music snippets are pure standard notation with no tabs. So while a guitarist can certainly pick up these magazines and learn a lot from the tab notation and never learn sheet music, I would think that anyone who reads this stuff seriously would pick up an awful lot. Certainly enough to recognize major and minor scales, to know the names of the notes, to recognize the key signatures, and other stuff like that. But not necessarily be able to sight-read standard notation and play it.
I got caught up in replying to Staver808's post and forgot to reply to this. Considering I was the one who asked you that question about guitar mags in the other thread, I certainly owe you that reply. Thanks for digging all those up from the vast n' dusty magazine archive! I appreciate it and the commentary you've added.

So, I still think saying that guitar mags are "filled" with standard notation was clearly an exaggeration, but having said that you've made your point pretty well, and I withdraw the snarkier portions of what I'd said in that thread. I agree, there certainly seems to be plenty to eat in the notation kitchen of some mags, depending on which issue you're looking at, and you can consider my ignorance fought. I don't think you'd disagree, though, that quite a lot of the music press is problematic in some ways, most of them being related to chasing and keeping advertisers, but that's only tangential to the topic.

Thanks again for responding (and civilly! ) to my question/snarkfest from that notation thread. Point made, Sam Stone+1 and I tip my hat in your direction.
  #724  
Old 07-28-2010, 01:04 AM
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Aw, that's not necessary. I didn't get that much snark in your first message anyway. I guess our definitions of 'filled' might be a little different. I just generally meant that there is quite a lot of it. In some of these mags, I'd say that between the song transcriptions and theory articles, there's standard music notation on perhaps half of the pages in the magazine.

And if you buy the 'special edition' issues that are devoted to theory or song transcriptions, the whole mag is pretty much music notation, although it's duplicated in tab, so if you don't want to read sheet music you don't have to.

I'm not sure which magazine it was, but I remember one that had very in-depth theory articles by Wolf Marshall, and then every year they'd compile his articles into a special edition like "Learn to play the Blues". The whole issue would be nothing but theory and song transcriptions.

I do also know that there are lots of guitar magazines that have virtually no music in them, and all they are is vapid gear reviews that are little more than thinly disguised ads for advertisers and a few 'human interest' stories like, "Eddie Van Halen shares his choice in stomp boxes!" - which was probably also a thinly veiled ad for the stomp box manufacturer. Whenever I'd impulse buy a guitar mag and find out it was one of those, I'd be really annoyed.

Wordman: I watched that 'tutorial' on Sunshine of your Love. Thanks - my ears are still bleeding. (-: That guy needs to learn how to stay in tune when bending notes.

Last edited by Sam Stone; 07-28-2010 at 01:07 AM.
  #725  
Old 07-28-2010, 01:16 AM
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EADGBE (Eddie Ate Dynamite, Good Bye Eddie)
Heh...I've never heard that mnemonic before. OTOH, that's the low-to-high reading; I learned it high-to-low, as EBGDAE (Elvis Buys Guitars Down At Ed's).
  #726  
Old 07-28-2010, 06:14 AM
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Well, the new pickguard showed, but I was in too much pain to start soldering. Don't ask. Long day, persistent back injury. Too much pain to dig out the Xaviere, too. On the other hand, www.woot.com has some stuff for sale.

1 M-Audio Recording Studio Equipment
M-Audio Protools Recording Studio,
M-Audio Protools Vocal Studio,
M-Audio AV30 Studiophile Speakers
M-Audio Pro Tools KeyStudio 49 Keyboard

The Recording Studio comes with ProTools. I was just saying I needed something to record with. Is this a good idea or a bad idea? (Remember, Woot deals only last till 1 AM Eastern)

Last edited by E-Sabbath; 07-28-2010 at 06:14 AM.
  #727  
Old 07-28-2010, 10:54 AM
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Well, the new pickguard showed, but I was in too much pain to start soldering. Don't ask. Long day, persistent back injury. Too much pain to dig out the Xaviere, too. On the other hand, www.woot.com has some stuff for sale.

1 M-Audio Recording Studio Equipment
M-Audio Protools Recording Studio,
M-Audio Protools Vocal Studio,
M-Audio AV30 Studiophile Speakers
M-Audio Pro Tools KeyStudio 49 Keyboard

The Recording Studio comes with ProTools. I was just saying I needed something to record with. Is this a good idea or a bad idea? (Remember, Woot deals only last till 1 AM Eastern)
Well, it certainly looks like a good deal. I've used M-Audio stuff and it worked reasonably well, though the drivers were buggy. Other thoughts:

- The package does not come with Pro Tools, it comes with "Pro Tools M-Powered Essential", which is a stripped down version.

- I have no idea what "Protools Vocal Studio" is, or if it's useful.

- The speakers are powered, so you can plug them into straight into the line outputs of the interface. I have no idea if the speakers are decent, but at 15 watts I don't think there's much headroom. It seems likely to me that the speakers are about as capable as decent computer speakers, which is a fairly low bar.

- If you're using this rig to record your guitar, you have two ways to do this, both of which involves spending more money on top of this purchase. You can either get a mic and use it to record your current amp, or you can run the guitar straight into the interface and add additional amp modeling software such as this.

- It's nice that the bundle comes with a keyboard, which is pretty useful even for a non-keyboardist. Having said that, you may need to purchase additional Pro Tools plug-ins to make instrument tones that are useful. I don't know if "Pro Tools M-Powered Essential" includes useful keyboard tones or if it's just a straight-up DAW sans things like this. Having said that, you can find cheap or free VST plug-ins online, so this may be a moot issue.

Last edited by squeegee; 07-28-2010 at 10:55 AM.
  #728  
Old 07-28-2010, 01:02 PM
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Part of why this is an ongoing thread is to centralize all the other threads that show up. And part of why this is ongoing is to document the learning process people have for other people. Go on and ask some stupid questions. It can't hurt any.
Okay, here's a potentially stupid question. First, a little background. I currently have two guitars, an Epiphone Les Paul and a real piece of crap acoustic that was given to me (as far as I can determine, it was originally sold through late-night infomercials where you would learn to play guitar by putting little colored stickers on the fretboard). It's been set up as good as it can, but it's got problems. The neck is glued in at the wrong angle and it would cost more than the guitar is worth to fix that. Needless to say, I play the LP almost exclusively, but I'd like to get a good acoustic.

Now the question: Are there any good cutaway acoustics out there that don't have electronics? I've grown accustomed to the upper fret access of my electric guitar, but all the cutaway acoustics I've seen have electronics, which is something I don't really need in an acoustic since I don't plan on gigging and would never use.
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Old 07-28-2010, 01:23 PM
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Part of why this is an ongoing thread is to centralize all the other threads that show up. And part of why this is ongoing is to document the learning process people have for other people. Go on and ask some stupid questions. It can't hurt any.
Okay, here's a potentially stupid question. First, a little background. I currently have two guitars, an Epiphone Les Paul and a real piece of crap acoustic that was given to me (as far as I can determine, it was originally sold through late-night infomercials where you would learn to play guitar by putting little colored stickers on the fretboard). It's been set up as good as it can, but it's got problems. The neck is glued in at the wrong angle and it would cost more than the guitar is worth to fix that. Needless to say, I play the LP almost exclusively, but I'd like to get a good acoustic.

Now the question: Are there any good cutaway acoustics out there that don't have electronics? I've grown accustomed to the upper fret access of my electric guitar, but all the cutaway acoustics I've seen have electronics, which is something I don't really need in an acoustic since I don't plan on gigging and would never use.
Not a stupid question at all. What's your price point? What kinda music do you want to play?

My own stupid question back : Any reason you can't just ignore the electronics? Get a decent Takamine or Yamaha (typically decent $400 - $600 guitars that often come with cutaways but often also have electronics)?

I tend to keep one electric-acoustic around simply for random gigs where I need to amplify an unplugged set...
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:22 PM
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At the Seagull website, the electronics are optional on the Artist Mosaic CW, Artist Studio Cutaway, Artist Portrait Cutaway, Artist Cameo Cutaway and Artist 'Peppino' Cutaway.

Art & Lutherie's cutaways all seem to have the electronics optional.

Without taking up a lot of time, it would seem that the situation is the same through out the Godin family of guitars - Simon and Patrick, Norman, La Patrie.

Electronics are becoming pretty common in all acoustic instruments, not just the ones with cutaways. Part of the reasoning behind that is that it is SO much easier to put whatever system it is in when the guitar is being built. Both my classicals and my steelie have been retro-fitted - it wasn't easy. In fact, it's a bit nerve wracking to consider how easy it would be to fuck up a great instrument in the process of wiring it up.
  #731  
Old 07-28-2010, 03:47 PM
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At the Seagull website, the electronics are optional on the Artist Mosaic CW, Artist Studio Cutaway, Artist Portrait Cutaway, Artist Cameo Cutaway and Artist 'Peppino' Cutaway.

Art & Lutherie's cutaways all seem to have the electronics optional.

Without taking up a lot of time, it would seem that the situation is the same through out the Godin family of guitars - Simon and Patrick, Norman, La Patrie.
Pushing the Canadian stuff, eh, ya big Canuck? (boy I hope I used "Canuck" correctly and didn't offend!!)

Both Seagull and Godin are excellently-made guitars at competitive prices - I don't know the other make.

Quote:
Electronics are becoming pretty common in all acoustic instruments, not just the ones with cutaways. Part of the reasoning behind that is that it is SO much easier to put whatever system it is in when the guitar is being built. Both my classicals and my steelie have been retro-fitted - it wasn't easy. In fact, it's a bit nerve wracking to consider how easy it would be to fuck up a great instrument in the process of wiring it up.
Hence my stupid question above...
  #732  
Old 07-28-2010, 04:21 PM
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- The package does not come with Pro Tools, it comes with "Pro Tools M-Powered Essential", which is a stripped down version.

- I have no idea what "Protools Vocal Studio" is, or if it's useful.


- If you're using this rig to record your guitar, you have two ways to do this, both of which involves spending more money on top of this purchase. You can either get a mic and use it to record your current amp, or you can run the guitar straight into the interface and add additional amp modeling software such as this.
I'm aware of the Essential nature. The Vocal Studio is the mike software, the mike, I am told, is very good.

And if you note, there's a line in on the box that comes with Pro Tools. I was kind of thinking of running my amp through it.


Jet Jaguar, Eskimo Spy:
Somewhere, by the way, earlier down the line, I think I note an Agile acoustic. It's about $200, and about as good as $400 from a big name. Does have electronics, but you can ignore 'em.
http://www.rondomusic.com/fg50ce.html
http://www.rondomusic.com/acoustics.html
There are Agiles there that do not have electrics. I can't really vouch too much for them, but I've heard good things about the specific model I linked.

Last edited by E-Sabbath; 07-28-2010 at 04:25 PM.
  #733  
Old 07-28-2010, 06:01 PM
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Not a stupid question at all. What's your price point? What kinda music do you want to play?

My own stupid question back : Any reason you can't just ignore the electronics? Get a decent Takamine or Yamaha (typically decent $400 - $600 guitars that often come with cutaways but often also have electronics)?

I tend to keep one electric-acoustic around simply for random gigs where I need to amplify an unplugged set...
I thought it was a stupid question because I assumed the answer would be "just ignore the electronics". I figure the electronics must cost something and I'd rather not pay for something I'm not going to use. I could ignore them if I have to. I'd prefer to do without but they're not really a deal-breaker.

As far as price range I'd like to stick to the $400-600 bracket, but I'd be willing to go as high as $800 if necessary. The type of music I play is mostly classic/hard rock with a little blues and folk thrown in. I'd use the acoustic mainly for folk rock.

Thanks for the suggestions. I've heard Seagulls are excellent guitars, but the local Guitar Center didn't have any in stock last time I was there. They supposedly do carry them, I'll have to keep an eye out.

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Jet Jaguar, Eskimo Spy:
That's Rex Dart, actually.

Interesting Canucks were brought up, which reminds me of an undoubtedly stupid question I have. Awhile back my wife and I caught this local band and one of the guitarists was playing a Tele that was painted with an American flag. I told my wife that someday I'd like to have a flag guitar, but since I'm from Canada originally I'd want a Canadian flag. However, my wife says that because I've now lived in the US for longer than I've lived in Canada that I'm not "Canadian enough" to play a Canadian flag guitar. Dual citizenship, so that doesn't help.

So, Canadian flag guitar, yay or nay?
  #734  
Old 07-28-2010, 06:46 PM
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Pushing the Canadian stuff, eh, ya big Canuck? (boy I hope I used "Canuck" correctly and didn't offend!!)

Both Seagull and Godin are excellently-made guitars at competitive prices - I don't know the other make.
Nah, I'm too stupid to take offense.

Pushing the Canadian stuff? Well, I guess, guilty as charged, m'lud. I just haven't seen that much that's in the less than $800 range that impresses me and doesn't come out of that one small town in the crotch between New Hampshire and Maine. Godin is kind of the umbrella company for Norman, Seagull, Simon and Patrick, Art & Lutherie, La Patrie and Godin. They started out in this tiny little out of the way town - La Patrie, Québec, pop. 800. They now have four factories, three in Québec and one in New Hampshire.

I just haven't been as impressed with the Yamahas and Takamines I've played in that same price range. Guilds, Gibsons, Martins, Taylors and Fenders are very good to outstanding in the $1000 to $2000 range, but again, in the lower prices it starts coming down to individual guitars, i.e. that one is sweet, but those other ten don't do much for me at all, and this one is a downright dud.

Once you're over $2000, I reckon you ought to just hook up with a luthier anyway, but I'm spoiled by all the incredible guitar makers we have up here. (I hope to have a long-overdue report on the Montréal Guitar Show tabled some time next week. Sorry - even if I hate vacations, the rest of the family expects me to muck in and enjoy myself against my will.)

I'll hunt down an Agile sometime and check it out. What other good acoustics in the $300 to $500 range have y'all run across? I'm curious...



Jet Jaguar - a Canadian flag guitar would just be so strangely atypical of a Canuck. Even Stompin' Tom Conners, who in some ways is one of our staunchest Canadian nationalists, doesn't go for that kind of overt patriotic symbolism. I think he'd be the first to say "If it ain't in your heart, who cares if it's on your guitar, and if it's in your heart, they'll know it anyway."

Now THIS is a Canadian guitar - Voyageur, the Six String Nation guitar. Go to the link 'Launch the guitar explorer' to see the historical/cultural significance of each piece of this priceless artifact - it's amazing. (I got to play it onstage at the Conservatory in a group concert centred around that instrument - you're almost afraid to touch it at first.)

Last edited by Le Ministre de l'au-delà; 07-28-2010 at 06:48 PM.
  #735  
Old 07-28-2010, 09:01 PM
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And if you note, there's a line in on the box that comes with Pro Tools. I was kind of thinking of running my amp through it.
Well, you had line level already, since that interface has guitar 1/4" jacks, which are basically line level; you'd just need a 1/4" to RCA-style adapter.

So: did you order that bundle?

Last edited by squeegee; 07-28-2010 at 09:01 PM.
  #736  
Old 07-28-2010, 09:14 PM
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Have you played any VH on the guitar? And? Also - pick the neck pickup, put the Volume at about 8-9 and roll the tone completely off. Play Sunshine of Your Love by Cream (through a gained-up amp, of course). Report. You like? Sound like the real song in a good way? If not, what's different?
You, ah, overstate my abilities considerably.
Sunshine of Your Love is not that hard, once you've done it once.
I don't know any "woman tone", to me it's always just been a shit load of harmonics (tube amp and humbuckers).


First part of the intro:

....d......d......c.....d

-------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------
---7-----7------5------7------------------------------------------
---0-----0------0------0------7------6------5-----0-----3-----0--
---5-----5------3------5------0------0------0---------------------
-------------------------------5------4------3---------------------

and go to the top again.
I think I got the tab close enough for gubmint work.

For the solo. Clapton did his usual "trick", switching up between (I think) major pentatonic and minor pentatonic. In short, play some of it in the second (II) position on the neck and some in the fifth (V) position on the neck and you've got damn near all of it covered.

Last edited by SteveG1; 07-28-2010 at 09:18 PM.
  #737  
Old 07-28-2010, 09:31 PM
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What _are_ good guitar magazines these days? What are these magazines Sam lists that are full of musical theory?
Obviously not for rockers, Just Jazz Guitar has a great mix of articles, interviews, tutorials, and lead sheets. Jazz Improv is a quarterly loaded with the stuff for all musicians, not just guitarists, but again, it's for jazzers. It's a quarterly.
  #738  
Old 07-28-2010, 11:02 PM
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Not a stupid question at all. What's your price point? What kinda music do you want to play?

My own stupid question back : Any reason you can't just ignore the electronics? Get a decent Takamine or Yamaha (typically decent $400 - $600 guitars that often come with cutaways but often also have electronics)?

I tend to keep one electric-acoustic around simply for random gigs where I need to amplify an unplugged set...
I thought it was a stupid question because I assumed the answer would be "just ignore the electronics". I figure the electronics must cost something and I'd rather not pay for something I'm not going to use. I could ignore them if I have to. I'd prefer to do without but they're not really a deal-breaker.

As far as price range I'd like to stick to the $400-600 bracket, but I'd be willing to go as high as $800 if necessary. The type of music I play is mostly classic/hard rock with a little blues and folk thrown in. I'd use the acoustic mainly for folk rock.

Thanks for the suggestions. I've heard Seagulls are excellent guitars, but the local Guitar Center didn't have any in stock last time I was there. They supposedly do carry them, I'll have to keep an eye out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Sabbath View Post
Jet Jaguar, Eskimo Spy:
That's Rex Dart, actually.

Interesting Canucks were brought up, which reminds me of an undoubtedly stupid question I have. Awhile back my wife and I caught this local band and one of the guitarists was playing a Tele that was painted with an American flag. I told my wife that someday I'd like to have a flag guitar, but since I'm from Canada originally I'd want a Canadian flag. However, my wife says that because I've now lived in the US for longer than I've lived in Canada that I'm not "Canadian enough" to play a Canadian flag guitar. Dual citizenship, so that doesn't help.

So, Canadian flag guitar, yay or nay?
Nay. Be different and use this..

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...0px-Ratfin.jpg
  #739  
Old 07-28-2010, 11:31 PM
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So: did you order that bundle?
Yep. I just get the device and the Pro Tools. The mike set and the keyboard set and the speakers are all sold separately. But I don't want 'em right now anyhow. The device has a mike-in, you notice? The mike-shaped thingy.

But that's not why I'm posting. I'm posting here to note that this was a triumph.
How big a triumph?
THIS BIG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOUsbtUrXHk

Note that said music approximates my skill. But... My creature lives!
After... a brief panic before I realized the volume knob was turned to zero. Now, it's time for pictures!
Ladies and Gentlemen: The Pig!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...terTuxedo1.jpg

14:1 pseudo-locking Wilkinson tuners.
Brass full-size tremolo replacing the zinc cut-away one it came with. Steel saddles instead of pot metal.
Locks on the strap (Best fifty cents I spent in a while)
D'Addario strings.
Black chromed screws in the pickguard and jack. Black chromed jackplate. (I figured I might as well replace it, it was five bucks)
And, of course, my new pickups and jackplate in Tuxedo.
Total cost... er. Call it $99 new... $60 for the tuners and trem, $70 for the pickups.

The _really odd thing is... I was right. I can hammer on. I can hammer on _three_ notes. I can hammer on two notes, then pull them both off. The new pickups fixed it! Heck, I can even tap. Well. I can fake tapping. I don't know how to actually tap.

BUT WAIT, there's MORE!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ar/XV-5851.jpg
The glory of my 585, the one with the VEH pickups. Gonna try that Sunshine thing tomorrow.

And, for completion's sake, my practice amp, a Pocket Rockit I got as a present.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...etRockitV2.jpg
Fits nicely in the Pig, and it means I don't have cables falling all around me. Runs off AAs.

And my good amp, the Vox DA-5
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...uitar/Vox1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...uitar/Vox3.jpg
  #740  
Old 07-29-2010, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by squeegee View Post
So: did you order that bundle?
Yep. I just get the device and the Pro Tools. The mike set and the keyboard set and the speakers are all sold separately. But I don't want 'em right now anyhow. The device has a mike-in, you notice? The mike-shaped thingy.
I have an MBox/Protools setup at home. I plan on moving up to a Digi Design 003 interface at some point.

Some things about Pro Tools. The learning curve isn't too hard if you have recorded before and understand the different types of tracks and how to route the signal. A powerful part of Pro Tools (and other recording software) is the plugins. My mainstays, plugins I use on every recording are SampleTank, Ableton Live and some of the Digi Design EQs and reverbs. Amplitube is also pretty cool.

If you are recording electric guitar you DO NOT want to do a line in from the amp. It will sound like shit. A huge amount of the tone comes from the speakers moving the air. Mic placement it an art in itself. (Side note, I found the sweet spot for my amp/mic. I don't move it unless I have to. The mic hasn't moved in about four months). There is an exception to this of course, which is you can run a line in straight from your guitar and use Amplitube or another guitar amp plugin to produce the tone. The problem with this is that the tone isn't quite as good as a mic'ed amp and most computers have a lag time. The lag time causes issues because a lot of people have to play without the plug in turned on. Since you can't hear the actual tone you are recording it is hard to tell if you are getting what you want, especially on things like pick harmonics that are greatly affected by the amp. I use Amplitube for some effects (chorus, etc) every once in a while and sometimes for clean tones. The tones are decent, especially the clean stuff, but whenever possible I use my amp unless there is something specific I want that Amplitube can do.

You want separate monitors. A lot of the production is hard with headphones, you don't really hear what it will sound like coming out of speakers.

The plugins will also drive you a bit crazy because once you start buying the things it is hard to stop. My favorite plugin is Sample Tank. It rocks. It has a huge amount of very good samples, piano, bass, strings, horns, percussion, etc. On a side note, IK, the company that makes Sample Tank sells additional sound packages for Sample Tank. Lately they have had some crazy sales going on, like buy 2 get 3 free, though there are some catches.

You will want a decent sized midi keyboard. Midi in Pro Tools without a keyboard interface is the suck. It is very time consuming. With a keyboard and a little practice you can get things close enough that the tools in Pro Tools will let you clean it up and get it on time fairly easily.

If you are going to mic things then you need to buy a couple different mics. You probably want one of the standards for amps, a Sure SM-57. (SM-58 for vocals) The SM-57s is a work horse, good tone and used in a lot of situations, recording and live. A condenser (LDM*) is also a good choice for a vocal/acoustic mic.

There are tons of mic options out there. Some of them are silly expensive (price a Nuemann U 87, an awesome mic).

If you haven't yet bought the package you linked to, I would highly suggest you check out a Digi Design MBox. The great thing about the MBox is that they come in packages, usually with enough plugins to get you started. See here. Also, they have two inputs which can be very handy when recording acoustic guitars. You can do some interesting thing with amps as well. It comes with Pro Tools LE, which is better than the software the package you linked to has. I am not sure of the exact differences off the top of my head but I know there are some.

If you decided to go the Pro Tools route, send me a PM. I wrote up a recording guide for a friend that I can send you.

Slee

*Large diaphragm microphones
  #741  
Old 07-29-2010, 02:01 AM
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[snip]
You want separate monitors. A lot of the production is hard with headphones, you don't really hear what it will sound like coming out of speakers.
[snip]
whenever possible I use my amp unless there is something specific I want that Amplitube can do.
How do you handle the problem of monitoring your backing track while recording your mic'd (extremely loud) guitar amp? I'm interested in tackling recording from my mic'd amp into my Ableton Live setup and was concerned about how I would handle monitoring. I have passive Alesis Monitor One's driven by a 100w/ch HTR, and I don't think this will keep up with the guitar amp when monitoring other parts while I play. You said headphones are not a good solution, so how do people generally handle this? Stuff the guitar amp + mic into the bathroom with a long chord(s) and close the door? Thanks for any suggestions.
  #742  
Old 07-29-2010, 02:04 AM
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Aw, that's not necessary. I didn't get that much snark in your first message anyway.
I'm probably just over compensating for all the shit I've given or will give you in politics threads. It all works out in the end.
  #743  
Old 07-29-2010, 06:35 AM
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On the Pro-Tools route: I have a good microphone, actually, from another project. I'll use it, thanks.
  #744  
Old 07-29-2010, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squeegee View Post
So: did you order that bundle?
Yep. I just get the device and the Pro Tools. The mike set and the keyboard set and the speakers are all sold separately. But I don't want 'em right now anyhow. The device has a mike-in, you notice? The mike-shaped thingy.

But that's not why I'm posting. I'm posting here to note that this was a triumph.
How big a triumph?
THIS BIG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOUsbtUrXHk

Note that said music approximates my skill. But... My creature lives!
After... a brief panic before I realized the volume knob was turned to zero. Now, it's time for pictures!
Ladies and Gentlemen: The Pig!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...terTuxedo1.jpg

14:1 pseudo-locking Wilkinson tuners.
Brass full-size tremolo replacing the zinc cut-away one it came with. Steel saddles instead of pot metal.
Locks on the strap (Best fifty cents I spent in a while)
D'Addario strings.
Black chromed screws in the pickguard and jack. Black chromed jackplate. (I figured I might as well replace it, it was five bucks)
And, of course, my new pickups and jackplate in Tuxedo.
Total cost... er. Call it $99 new... $60 for the tuners and trem, $70 for the pickups.

The _really odd thing is... I was right. I can hammer on. I can hammer on _three_ notes. I can hammer on two notes, then pull them both off. The new pickups fixed it! Heck, I can even tap. Well. I can fake tapping. I don't know how to actually tap.

BUT WAIT, there's MORE!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ar/XV-5851.jpg
The glory of my 585, the one with the VEH pickups. Gonna try that Sunshine thing tomorrow.

And, for completion's sake, my practice amp, a Pocket Rockit I got as a present.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...etRockitV2.jpg
Fits nicely in the Pig, and it means I don't have cables falling all around me. Runs off AAs.

And my good amp, the Vox DA-5
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...uitar/Vox1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...uitar/Vox3.jpg
Good work!!!

As for that Sunshine... I gave the wrong neck positions for the solo. Sorry bout that, but hopefully you get the idea - Clapton plays it in two different spots on the neck. If I had a way to "video'" it, I would show you myself.
  #745  
Old 07-29-2010, 11:31 AM
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E-Sabs - sorry if I missed it - did you tell us what kind of pickups you got and what you think is different about them vs. what was in there? Are they meant to be the same type of pickup, only higher quality? Or were you targeting a different style of pickup as well as upgrading quality?

Last edited by WordMan; 07-29-2010 at 11:31 AM.
  #746  
Old 07-29-2010, 02:06 PM
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What was in there: The cheapest possible sort of pickup one can make. Single coil, all three identically wound. Very weak. HORRIBLY weak. Ceramic, maybe? The new ones? Alnico V rod magnets with cloth wires, bridge is wound to 6K, mid is wound to 5.5K and neck to 5K.

I haven't had much time to explore it, it took me most of the night to get things back in shape. But it barks now. It's got authority it didn't have. Notes ring. Problem is, it's _really_ out of intonation, and also the pickup heights are all wrong. I approximated, going to fix it later.

So both of them were supposed to be Stratocaster style single coil pickups. Just, well, the ones before were kind of faking it. This sounds like the good shit, and I wasn't even using the Vox to test with.

Can anyone give me the one-string tabs for Sunshine? Or is it on that youtube video? I'm not good at following videos.

Last edited by E-Sabbath; 07-29-2010 at 02:07 PM.
  #747  
Old 07-29-2010, 02:51 PM
Ximenean is offline
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This has to be the world's simplest tab :

12-12-10-12 7 6 5 0 3~ 0
Then the same thing on the next string up. Or if you really insist on using one string, just move the whole thing up 5 frets.
  #748  
Old 07-29-2010, 03:27 PM
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I want to practice moving up and down frets, so I'll try that. Start on G?
  #749  
Old 07-29-2010, 09:05 PM
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Can anyone give me the one-string tabs for Sunshine? Or is it on that youtube video? I'm not good at following videos.
It isn't a one string tab, but in Post 736 I gave you the way I learned it way way back when Disraeli Gears was a new album. Try it. It's simpler than it looks. Key of D.
  #750  
Old 07-29-2010, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sleestak View Post
[snip]
You want separate monitors. A lot of the production is hard with headphones, you don't really hear what it will sound like coming out of speakers.
[snip]
whenever possible I use my amp unless there is something specific I want that Amplitube can do.
How do you handle the problem of monitoring your backing track while recording your mic'd (extremely loud) guitar amp? I'm interested in tackling recording from my mic'd amp into my Ableton Live setup and was concerned about how I would handle monitoring. I have passive Alesis Monitor One's driven by a 100w/ch HTR, and I don't think this will keep up with the guitar amp when monitoring other parts while I play. You said headphones are not a good solution, so how do people generally handle this? Stuff the guitar amp + mic into the bathroom with a long chord(s) and close the door? Thanks for any suggestions.
I use the simple approach, my amp is in the hall outside the room I use for my studio. I run my amp at about 5 or 6 on the master (which is pretty damned loud) for recording and it sounds fine. I keep the door partially closed and adjust the monitor volume so that the mix is ok for tracking. Nothing fancy but it beats headphones and I don't get any bleed.

Bathrooms can be good rooms, however they can also setup a lot of odd reverberations and you can get some wacky phase things going on. If you do try the bathroom route play around with the amp and mic placement a lot.

If there are issues with volume you can build or buy an amp isolation box. Basically a big old box that you put over your amp to lower the volume that escapes. I've never used one but know some people who have had good results with them.

For acoustic you gotta use headphones. I hate using headphones for some reason. Anyway, if you are going to do acoustic you need to buy some good headphones. The ones I use right now leak a lot of high end. The mic ends up picking up cymbals and hi-hats from the headphones. One of these days I'll buy some good ones but for now it is not a huge issue unless it is a guitar only track. The problem with guitar only tracks is that the click leaks through and you don't want that. My usual way around this is to record a scratch track with a click. I then record the actual tracks off the scratch track, with my headphones there isn't really any bleed doing it this way.

One of these days I am going to turn a back room I have into a studio. I need to install A/C back there first. Once I get that done I'll probably end up building lots of isolation walls. I might even build a booth. That should be interesting.

Slee
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