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Old 02-20-2020, 08:50 PM
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Is it generally in the global eliteís best interests to let/support Trump becoming a fascist leader?


Something Iíve wondered about as a factor in this election and in a possible second Trump administration. I can easily see arguments either way. I can also easily see that they, as individuals, might have different answers to the question. In that case, whatís the majority? How would they fight each other?
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Old 02-20-2020, 09:30 PM
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My gut feeling is that the oligarchy already has the wheel, and it doesn't really matter who is at the reception window.
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Old 02-20-2020, 09:43 PM
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What people at the top want is stability; they're succeeding under the current system so they want to keep that system going unchanged.

Trump's a loose cannon; he does not represent stability.
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Old 02-20-2020, 09:48 PM
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My gut feeling is that the oligarchy already has the wheel, and it doesn't really matter who is at the reception window.
Sure, thatís the entire question, in my mind: would a Trump dictatorial takeover affect their comfortable status quo, and if so, would it be positive or negative?
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Old 02-20-2020, 10:11 PM
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The ideal system for the economic elite is one like Chile under Pinochet. Dictatorship that suppresses leftists, promotes neoliberal economics and is politically stable.

Trump is not politically stable, and he is also empowering a backlash against fascism. In a more dracionian state they could just disenfranchise people who dislike fascism, but in America people can vote (granted due to voter suppression, gerrymandering, right wing courts, etc their resistance isn't always powerful).

A better system for the elites (assuming they couldn't create a military dictatorship like Chile) would be someone as plutocratic as Trump but who was less polarizing so the public remained apathetic about politics.
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Old 02-21-2020, 07:51 AM
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The think that it's best for them.

In reality it isn't.

A large, growing middle class is the key for everyone to do better economically. The problem is that rich people see the money the middle class is getting and think "That's money I should have." and work the system to get it. The middle class is hurt, the economy doesn't do as well, there is less wealth being generated, etc.

Wealth isn't a bounded resource. Work instead to have as many people as possible generating wealth.
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Old 02-21-2020, 08:11 AM
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A large, growing middle class is the key for everyone to do better economically. The problem is that rich people see the money the middle class is getting and think "That's money I should have." and work the system to get it. The middle class is hurt, the economy doesn't do as well, there is less wealth being generated, etc.
Which results in less income for the Elites.

Quite a few people believe there is a conspiracy by the Elites (Bill Gates etc.) to depopulate the world. This is hard to understand, as having vastly fewer people means there's hardly anyone left to exploit.
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Old 02-21-2020, 08:56 AM
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The think that it's best for them.

In reality it isn't.

A large, growing middle class is the key for everyone to do better economically. The problem is that rich people see the money the middle class is getting and think "That's money I should have." and work the system to get it. The middle class is hurt, the economy doesn't do as well, there is less wealth being generated, etc.

Wealth isn't a bounded resource. Work instead to have as many people as possible generating wealth.
I think you're ascribing a lot of motive that probably isn't there. I'd say that the rich probably look at things more as a game, as past a certain point, you're only keeping score and don't actually see lifestyle improvements. So they're looking to maximize their score and aren't really considering how it affects others. Indifference rather than an adversarial mentality toward the middle class, in other words.

But with that in mind, they mostly like to play their game within a stable and relatively static arena- this means not a lot of chaos, economic or otherwise, and not a lot of negative legislative changes. Trump is an engine of chaos, while Democrats are more likely to enact legislation that hinder their game playing, so I imagine that the best option for the rich is a more "normal" Republican than Trump.
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:20 AM
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The think that it's best for them.

In reality it isn't.

A large, growing middle class is the key for everyone to do better economically. The problem is that rich people see the money the middle class is getting and think "That's money I should have." and work the system to get it. The middle class is hurt, the economy doesn't do as well, there is less wealth being generated, etc.

Wealth isn't a bounded resource. Work instead to have as many people as possible generating wealth.
I think you're ascribing a lot of motive that probably isn't there. I'd say that the rich probably look at things more as a game, as past a certain point, you're only keeping score and don't actually see lifestyle improvements. So they're looking to maximize their score and aren't really considering how it affects others. Indifference rather than an adversarial mentality toward the middle class, in other words.

But with that in mind, they mostly like to play their game within a stable and relatively static arena- this means not a lot of chaos, economic or otherwise, and not a lot of negative legislative changes. Trump is an engine of chaos, while Democrats are more likely to enact legislation that hinder their game playing, so I imagine that the best option for the rich is a more "normal" Republican than Trump.
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Old 02-21-2020, 04:30 PM
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Even the Kochs have fallen off the trumpwagon. The elite want stability above all. The German elites thought they could control Hitler and that lesson has not been lost.
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Old 02-24-2020, 06:47 AM
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Fascists generally want gun control, high taxes and restrictions on free speech. Doesn't sound like Trump.
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Old 02-24-2020, 07:16 AM
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Fascists generally want gun control, high taxes and restrictions on free speech. Doesn't sound like Trump.
2 out of 3 is close enough. The middle class are paying higher taxes under Trump, itís only the rich that got a tax break. Trump also is not a supporter of free speech. What he supports is free speech for those who speak in support of him, and restrictions on those who donít.
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Old 02-24-2020, 07:51 AM
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Old 02-24-2020, 08:52 AM
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In their short term interests, possibly. But if you believe, as I do, that policies and practices like Trump puts into place and encourages greatly increase the chance of strife (whether due to economic or climate catastrophes) that could blow back and harm everyone, including the wealthy and powerful, then it would be in their long-term interests to ensure that the masses have a decent chance at a healthy and comfortable life, along with a future for their children.
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