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Old 03-12-2020, 07:00 PM
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The Politics of Covid-19


It was somewhat refreshing to see the president admit last night that Covid-19 is a real thing- and a real threat. I was finding it odd that the only lawmakers to publicly announce that they were self-quarantining were not just Republicans, but staunch Trump allies. I wonder if that has any part in forcing him to see that there might be a public health emergency brewing.

First we had Ted Cruz, Matt Gaetz, Doug Collins, Mark Meadows, and Paul Gosar self-quarantining after CPAC. Why were they not afraid to go against Herr Trump and his scoffing that the "Chinese Flu" was a big old Democratic scare scam designed to make him look bad, and it would just miraculously go away?

He was refusing to cancel rallies; he was mocking Democrats for cancelling their rallies just two days ago. He was showing zero concern about the Brazilian delegation he met with over the weekend that came down with Covid-19 after returning home. I wonder what changed to make him appear all somber and grave on TV last night, actually admitting that this is a public health emergency?

Today Rick Scott and Lindsey Graham went into self-quarantine due to interaction with the Brazilian delegation at Mar-a-Lago last weekend. Pretty soon his whole inner circle will be able to have a quarantine party together. How's Nunes feeling?
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Old 03-12-2020, 08:00 PM
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As was said in another thread, Trump looked like a hostage reading demands from his captors. And he fucked that up too.

The man is a moron. We know that. He fucks up everything. He hasn't a clue what is going on other than this may make HIM look bad.
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Old 03-12-2020, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MulderMuffin View Post
It was somewhat refreshing to see the president admit last night that Covid-19 is a real thing- and a real threat. I was finding it odd that the only lawmakers to publicly announce that they were self-quarantining were not just Republicans, but staunch Trump allies. I wonder if that has any part in forcing him to see that there might be a public health emergency brewing.

First we had Ted Cruz, Matt Gaetz, Doug Collins, Mark Meadows, and Paul Gosar self-quarantining after CPAC. Why were they not afraid to go against Herr Trump and his scoffing that the "Chinese Flu" was a big old Democratic scare scam designed to make him look bad, and it would just miraculously go away?

He was refusing to cancel rallies; he was mocking Democrats for cancelling their rallies just two days ago. He was showing zero concern about the Brazilian delegation he met with over the weekend that came down with Covid-19 after returning home. I wonder what changed to make him appear all somber and grave on TV last night, actually admitting that this is a public health emergency?

Today Rick Scott and Lindsey Graham went into self-quarantine due to interaction with the Brazilian delegation at Mar-a-Lago last weekend. Pretty soon his whole inner circle will be able to have a quarantine party together. How's Nunes feeling?
I think part of it is that he is the President of the United States. Other politicians can go into self-quarantine, but that isn't a realistic option for this or any president. If there is panic now, what will happen if the President is shown to be hiding in a bunker?

I understand that a reasonable response would be how bad would the panic be if the President got the virus and died, but I think that is where the line in the sand is drawn. Someone has to show leadership (and it doesn't matter whether anyone thinks it is poor leadership) and the President must be that person, even at the risk to his own health.
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Old 03-12-2020, 11:07 PM
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According to the parasite stress hypothesis, when there are contagious diseases running around uncontrolled, people become more conformist and hostile to outsiders, which also makes them more supportive of authoritarian political movements.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...589397168title

So sadly despite trump being an imbecile and total fuck up, the virus may move politics to the right

But who knows if one year is enough time for society to change like that.
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Old 03-12-2020, 11:22 PM
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I think part of it is that he is the President of the United States. Other politicians can go into self-quarantine, but that isn't a realistic option for this or any president. If there is panic now, what will happen if the President is shown to be hiding in a bunker?
The Prime Minister of Canada is currently under self quarantine because his wife tested positive. I don't think there have been riots in the streets or widespread panic. To the contrary, he's being seen as proactive and responsible.

It's not there worst thing in the world to acknowledge that this disease exists, there are ways to try to avoid it, people should be tested if they have reason to believe they have been exposed, and that responsible people self quarantine.

There is already widespread panic in the United States. Walk into any grocery store or pharmacy and try to buy any basic health items. There are none. I can't explain there darth if toilet paper... Look at the stock market. Look at the widespread closures of public buildings, schools, businesses, and spring events. This is panic borne of lack of reliable information from a central, trusted source.

From an anecdotal perspective, my Republican friends think this is all overblown by the media and don't plan to live their lives in any different manner whatsoever, based on what the President has been saying and what Fox News had been reporting. My Democratic friends are practicing social distancing, canceling anything that will bring then into contact with large groups of people, and watching the news obsessively to try to see what is happening. The local news is reporting several presumed cases of Covid-19 in town are unable to get tested despite their doctors orders, because no one has any tests or knows where to get them.

Last edited by MulderMuffin; 03-12-2020 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 03-13-2020, 12:04 AM
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Plague? It's China's fault. It's a Democrat hoax. It's nothing, really. It's all under control, better than anything has ever been controlled before. It's a YUGE! boon for stock-market bargain hunters. It's stark message from Jehovah / Satan / Bill Gates / Lady Gaga. It's biowarfare production gone bad. It's wild bats. It's enough to cancel elections.
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It's only the beginning.
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Old 03-13-2020, 12:59 AM
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I think part of it is that he is the President of the United States. Other politicians can go into self-quarantine, but that isn't a realistic option for this or any president. If there is panic now, what will happen if the President is shown to be hiding in a bunker?

I understand that a reasonable response would be how bad would the panic be if the President got the virus and died, but I think that is where the line in the sand is drawn. Someone has to show leadership (and it doesn't matter whether anyone thinks it is poor leadership) and the President must be that person, even at the risk to his own health.
The risk is not to his health, UV; he either contracted Covid-19 from meeting Bolsonaro's aide or he did not but, either way, quarantining himself now will not change that. The point of quarantine now is to minimise the risk that, if infected himself, he will pass on the infection to others,

Ignoring the risk you present to other people is not "showing leadership"; it's showing a monstrously selfish sense of entitlement.
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Old 03-13-2020, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
I think part of it is that he is the President of the United States. Other politicians can go into self-quarantine, but that isn't a realistic option for this or any president. If there is panic now, what will happen if the President is shown to be hiding in a bunker?

I understand that a reasonable response would be how bad would the panic be if the President got the virus and died, but I think that is where the line in the sand is drawn. Someone has to show leadership (and it doesn't matter whether anyone thinks it is poor leadership) and the President must be that person, even at the risk to his own health.
The first paragraph is a Gish Gallop of stupidity with a small dollop of excluded middle, sorta.

The second paragraph seems to say that we should accept Trump’s actions as what he thinks a leader should be doing, even if we know it to be really stupid.

I find your post utterly unpersuasive.
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Old 03-13-2020, 11:11 AM
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Debates, primaries, conventions, the general election.... it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Rs can afford to cancel or postpone all of them and would most benefit by that happening.

Ds can't and will resist every step of the way for fear of setting a precedent.

Last edited by What the .... ?!?!; 03-13-2020 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 03-13-2020, 11:25 AM
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Haven't the Democratic candidates already voluntarily suspended various rallies and campaign events?

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 03-13-2020 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 03-13-2020, 11:39 AM
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For a President whose hypocrisy knows no bounds, to have a germophobe keep telling America that everything is fine for weeks after it obviously wasn't is just a jaw-dropping, galling event.

Trump's approval for handling this crisis is now 46%. As things get worse, which they surely will before it gets better, and the economy starts reacting beyond the stock market --- man, it's pretty hard to see how this isn't the biggest political disaster since like Watergate.
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Old 03-13-2020, 11:47 AM
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It'll be interesting to see if Trump has the stomach to sign legislation that has Nancy Pelosi's fingerprints on it.
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Old 03-13-2020, 11:48 AM
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Two weeks ago, the Republicans were all saying that it was a hoax.

Yesterday, the Republican Governor of Ohio closed all schools for three weeks, against the recommendation of the CDC, because he thinks that it's being underdiagnosed by a factor of 20,000.
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Old 03-13-2020, 12:02 PM
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If there is panic now, what will happen if the President is shown to be hiding in a bunker?
What will happen if he coughs up a chunk o' lung during his next "speech"?
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Old 03-13-2020, 12:06 PM
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Well, the one comforting thing is that apparently if Trump did try to use this to delay an election, Pelosi would become president on inauguration day (I thought this was an interesting tidbit anyway).
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Old 03-13-2020, 12:10 PM
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I am eagerly awaiting the shitshow that will take place in just under 2 hours.
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I will be having a news conference today at 3:00 P.M., The White House. Topic: CoronaVirus!
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Old 03-13-2020, 12:55 PM
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The most insane thing is that, AFAICT, Trump and those around him refuse to be tested.
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Old 03-13-2020, 01:14 PM
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Well, the one comforting thing is that apparently if Trump did try to use this to delay an election, Pelosi would become president on inauguration day (I thought this was an interesting tidbit anyway).
Like.
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Old 03-13-2020, 01:22 PM
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For a President whose hypocrisy knows no bounds, to have a germophobe keep telling America that everything is fine for weeks after it obviously wasn't is just a jaw-dropping, galling event.
At least he's transparently wrong, and everyone seems to know it, judging by the empty shelves at Walmart, devoid of bottled water, boxes of mac & cheese, and canned vegetables and tuna. Apparently there are no deep freezers nor power generators to be had anywhere either. People are panic-shopping like they did right before 1-1-2000. And you know a lot of them voted for Trump.

When Reagan told everyone they weren't at risk for AIDS if they were among the "good" people, they listened, and no one took the threat seriously for more than a decade.
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Old 03-13-2020, 01:27 PM
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The most insane thing is that, AFAICT, Trump and those around him refuse to be tested.
Well it's that he has also been exposed.
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Old 03-13-2020, 01:49 PM
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The Prime Minister of Canada is currently under self quarantine because his wife tested positive. I don't think there have been riots in the streets or widespread panic. To the contrary, he's being seen as proactive and responsible.


And he's also made the point that he's still doing his job as a work-at-home thing, using the phone and teleconferencing. Since using work-at-home as much as possible is one of the best things we could do to limit the spread of the disease while still getting work done, this is showing actual leadership.

What does it say about Trump that he apparently can't figure out how to do this? JT figured it out before he gave his first public statement.
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Old 03-13-2020, 02:26 PM
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The most insane thing is that, AFAICT, Trump and those around him refuse to be tested.
As I just posted in one of the other threads, I don't believe this for one second, and I doubt anyone else does, either. They're probably being tested hourly.
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Old 03-13-2020, 02:47 PM
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As was said in another thread, Trump looked like a hostage reading demands from his captors. And he fucked that up too.

The man is a moron. We know that. He fucks up everything. He hasn't a clue what is going on other than this may make HIM look bad.
Credit where credit is due. He finally took advice from experts. I don't care that he did it at the point of a gun and every CEO and banker threatened to bankrupt him if he didn't get his shit together for just one night.

He didn't get it perfect but he didn't fuck it up. I think it's sticks that he didn't include countries where he owns gold courses in the travel ban but its better than nothing. I've learned to lower my expectations from government.
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Old 03-13-2020, 04:07 PM
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The most insane thing is that, AFAICT, Trump and those around him refuse to be tested.
Considering that trump and pence have been close to multiple people who have the virus it's pretty absurd.

The president of Brazil supposedly has it and was physically next to trump recently.

I'm guessing trump is being tested he just wouldn't release the results.
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Old 03-13-2020, 04:20 PM
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Someone has to show leadership (and it doesn't matter whether anyone thinks it is poor leadership) and the President must be that person, even at the risk to his own health.
‘I Don’t Take Responsibility At All’ - Donald J. Trump - March 13, 2020
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Old 03-13-2020, 04:27 PM
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“In case you were wondering who’s responsible, I take responsibility. It is my job to make sure that everything is done to shut this down. … But there shouldn’t be any confusion here: The federal government is fully engaged, and I’m fully engaged.”
 - Barrack Obama - May 27, 2010 - re: Deepwater Horizon

In case anyone was wondering what leadership looked like.
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Old 03-13-2020, 04:30 PM
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‘I Don’t Take Responsibility At All’ - Donald J. Trump - March 13, 2020
“No, I don’t take responsibility at all. Because we were given a -- a set of circumstances, and we were given rules, regulations and specifications from a different time. It wasn’t meant for this kind of -- an event with the kind of numbers that we’re talking about.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/13/coro...-of-tests.html

Yeah, and those "circumstances" include the NSC's pandemic response office being closed -- by Trump's own National Security Advisor in 2018. But he's trying to make it sound like Obama's fault. What a scumbag.
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  #28  
Old 03-13-2020, 04:46 PM
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There is already widespread panic in the United States. Walk into any grocery store or pharmacy and try to buy any basic health items. There are none. I can't explain there darth if toilet paper... Look at the stock market. Look at the widespread closures of public buildings, schools, businesses, and spring events. This is panic borne of lack of reliable information from a central, trusted source.
I don't really see any panic in the US so far. I see people making the best decisions they can in an environment of high but very unknown risk.

Runs on supplies aren't an indication of panic. They are the logical and reasoned reaction of people thinking clearly about supply shocks and trying to limit their exposure to disease.

Two weeks ago I went and bought several months of our normal medical supplies. Because I knew that
1. The last place you want to be in a pandemic is a pharmacy where a bunch of sick people will go.
2. Other people will have the same idea, and a supply chain that's set up to normally handle people not buying several months in advance will run out.
3. The global economy is going to have disrupted supply chains for a while, which is going to lead to more shortages.

That's not panic, just a shortage.
  #29  
Old 03-13-2020, 04:55 PM
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Someone has to show leadership (and it doesn't matter whether anyone thinks it is poor leadership) and the President must be that person, even at the risk to his own health.
Or in this case, even at the risk of everyone else's health.
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Old 03-13-2020, 04:56 PM
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I imagine some Fox News watchers and Trump supporters have whiplash. But all these emergency measures, both on the state and federal levels, seem like shutting the barn door after the horse is out. It's a half-assed job of containment, which means it's not containment at all. I've been underwhelmed by the governor's response here. Yes, he closed all schools today, but if you're serious about containment, you don't wait this long to do such things.
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Old 03-13-2020, 05:02 PM
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Anyone who wants to have a foretaste of how Trump will handle the coronavirus crisis can take a look at how he handled Hurricane Maria.
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Old 03-13-2020, 05:30 PM
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‘I Don’t Take Responsibility At All’ - Donald J. Trump - March 13, 2020
Campaign ad sound bite right there. Gonna be tired of it by November.
  #33  
Old 03-13-2020, 10:10 PM
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Credit where credit is due. He finally took advice from experts. I don't care that he did it at the point of a gun and every CEO and banker threatened to bankrupt him if he didn't get his shit together for just one night.

He didn't get it perfect but he didn't fuck it up. I think it's sticks that he didn't include countries where he owns gold courses in the travel ban but its better than nothing. I've learned to lower my expectations from government.

I quoted the President to a friend, telling her how the insurance companies had agreed to cover the cost of testing and treatment without copays for Covid-19. It appears that wasn't true, though. Maybe the testing, that's debatable. But they've agreed to nothing in terms of treatments. I don't know if his scriptwriter gave him bad information, or if he misread it like he misread about cargo being kept from coming in to the country. There have, in fact, been many, many instances of misstatements and wrong facts in that 10 minute speech, I've discovered while researching the insurance company information.
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