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  #151  
Old 03-11-2020, 10:40 AM
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Because we are running a deficit of a trillion dollars a year.

Regards,
Shodan
  #152  
Old 03-11-2020, 11:23 AM
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Tax cut! Especially useful in the middle of a public health emergency!
  #153  
Old 03-11-2020, 11:59 AM
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Because we are running a deficit of a trillion dollars a year.
Then why are we cutting taxes?

The deficit is money we already spent. We can't unspend it. The only way to reduce the deficit is to pay it off. And to do that, the government needs to have money coming in.

Republicans need to stop thinking about what's best for billionaires and start think about what's best for the country.
  #154  
Old 03-11-2020, 12:56 PM
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I maybe the OP is referring to the thought that the zeitgeist of post-Boomer society is "fed up with the status quo". I just typed, and erased, whole paragraphs stating how the GOP and Democratic Leadership are both missing the growing discontent in the country because they are mostly isolated from everyday reality of most people. But it is pointless to try to point it out... you either recognize history or you won't. Folks will try to effect change within the current 2 party system, until enough people feel it is pointless; Then MAJOR change will happen. You think a millionaire ideologue is a step too far? You think a democratic "socialist" candidate is bad? Well, you had better hope it is enough of a seismic shift to release societal pressure...otherwise worse will happen as the status quo continues. MAYBE things will get better after 2028, when the number of X'ers (a much smaller generation) will surpass the Boomers as they die out, and change may accelerate. (The number of Google searches for that information should REALLY be a wake up call.) Then again, who can say? A pandemic might change things before then. Or automated cars may suddenly be a thing and push the economy over the edge. Or global warming will cause a disruption. And if all of THAT sounds a little nuts...then congratulations; Your life is peaches and cream compared to those of us who see a bleak future.
  #155  
Old 03-11-2020, 01:10 PM
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...
Republicans need to stop thinking about what's best for billionaires and start think about what's best for the country.
It will never happen. Those with money and power corrupt the system so that the system requires money and power. If politicians actually wanted to have the best country possible they would ensure that there were very few rich people, few (or no) poor people, and mostly middle class citizens. We have close to half the population with income too low for the federal government to tax. The other half of the population pays 97% of federal taxes, but are taught that the federal government is EVIL for taxing them and it is their right to pay as little as possible. The richer and more powerful you are, the less patriotic you become. Sad but true.
  #156  
Old 03-11-2020, 02:29 PM
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Because we are running a deficit of a trillion dollars a year.

Regards,
Shodan
I'm all for means testing when it comes to who gets social security benefits. How about you?

That said, why the preference in reduction of social security benefits to those with little or no income, vs the increase in taxes on those who are younger, have an income and are going to be paying into a system from which they will eventually benefit, like you are now? Is it because you've made your calculation that your benefits will be grandfathered in? Or have you put away enough in saving that it won't matter to you even if benefits are reduced? Is it an interest in reducing the tax burden on your children? If so, how are you so sure they will not need social security benefits when they are your age?

Unwind this for me.
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  #157  
Old 03-11-2020, 02:30 PM
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Then why are we cutting taxes?
We shouldn't be. Which is why I said I would vote for Biden, or any politician, who cut entitlements.

I don't want a tax cut. I do want spending cuts. I am perfectly willing to accept a tax increase, providing it is coupled with spending cuts, until the deficit is addressed.

But, as I said, that's not how politicians - Democrat or Republican - get elected.
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The deficit is money we already spent. We can't unspend it. The only way to reduce the deficit is to pay it off. And to do that, the government needs to have money coming in.
Not quite a nitpick - the debt is money we have already spent, and which needs to be paid off (or paid down). The deficit is money that we are spending, and are gonna spend. We don't need to pay that back, until after we spend it. If we were to cut entitlements, we wouldn't need to pay anything back.

If you give a politician - Republican or Democrat - $100, he will spend $120. If then you give him $120, he will spend $140.

If he's a Republican, he will spend $140 and tell you he will get the extra $40 from increased economic activity. If he's a Democrat, he will take $120 from you, another $140 from somebody else, and spend $300 on healthcare.

If either of them says he's gonna spend $100, the other side says he is evil and irresponsible and he loses the next election.

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  #158  
Old 03-11-2020, 03:10 PM
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Your proposed solutions might have enthusiastic support once you actually state them.
  #159  
Old 03-11-2020, 06:44 PM
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Responding to the radicalism of Trump requires an equally radical leftwing counterattack...
I agree with your assessment of a possible Biden presidency, but the only person who could get into office will be bland and a bit right of center. Radical left wing is never a good idea - ask Labour's Jeremy Corbyn, if he will ever admit it. In US terms, only a candidate who is not controversial and divisive has a chance to unseat Trump. Biden seems to be more of that than Sanders. I don't think he will be a good POTUS, mainly because he would have the baleful legacy of Trumo to deal with, but he probably won't be a bad prez either.
  #160  
Old 03-12-2020, 11:05 AM
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Within hours of me saying I was worried about Biden's interactions with the public, he tells a factory worker he's full of shit (video) following a fairly softball accusation / question that he was against gun rights.

Once again I was watching through my fingers, especially as Biden's aide(s), clearly used to this, make a valiant effort to wrap things up and get scolded for their efforts.

Apparently Biden's comments have gone down relatively well as "plain-speaking", because that's where American politics is now.
But still, I can't bear to look any more. How many more of these are there going to be in the next 8 months

Last edited by Mijin; 03-12-2020 at 11:07 AM.
  #161  
Old 03-12-2020, 11:12 AM
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"That's where American politics are now" is how I would cast your hot take. In days past, every goddamn thing wasn't recorded and being surrounded by autoworkers is a perfectly fine place to use that kind of language. But now the delicate flowers also get to see it and stagger for the fainting couch.

Last edited by CarnalK; 03-12-2020 at 11:12 AM.
  #162  
Old 03-12-2020, 11:29 AM
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Do those disdainful of Biden prefer the orange terror?
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Those of us who look past optics and personal animus to see actual results consider Biden to be WORSE of the two because his presidency would bring a false sense of "normalcy" to a world situation that is awful and getting worse. Neither Trump nor Biden intend to do a goddamned thing about climate change, they're both absolute ballsuckers to the oil and gas industries and either one of them insures we do NOTHING about climate change or the environment for four more years--in Biden's case, everyone goes back to sleep so it's actually nothing done for MORE than four years. There is no change without discomfort, and Cheeto Jesus certainly brings the discomfort so yes, from an environmentalist point of view especially Trump is preferable.

Now the ACTUAL preference is for neither of these two deranged clowns driving the clown car in favor of an actual competent person but if the American public is too deluded or the DNC/RNC too good at ratfucking the election process then it's gonna be one or the other and yes, I prefer the one who creates the most outrage because that's the one more likely to actually get people off their asses and doing something to effect actual change rather than tastefully rearranging the Titanic's deck chairs.
Susan Sarandon? Is that you?
  #163  
Old 03-12-2020, 11:45 AM
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"That's where American politics are now" is how I would cast your hot take. In days past, every goddamn thing wasn't recorded and being surrounded by autoworkers is a perfectly fine place to use that kind of language. But now the delicate flowers also get to see it and stagger for the fainting couch.
No, it's not that I am offended by the word "shit".
It's that I expect someone vying for the role of president, to not take a soft question and respond like some drunk starting a brawl.
If Biden were my friend, I would be worried about my friend's temperament. Let alone anyone being put in a position of power and responsibility.

I know we're in the post-Trump-election world here, but I for one am hoping, just maybe, we can begin the crawl out of the gutter?

Anyway, get all your handwaving ready, because there is no doubt in my mind Biden is going to do a lot more of this in the coming weeks, and months if he gets that far.
  #164  
Old 03-12-2020, 12:32 PM
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I agree with your assessment of a possible Biden presidency, but the only person who could get into office will be bland and a bit right of center. Radical left wing is never a good idea - ask Labour's Jeremy Corbyn, if he will ever admit it. In US terms, only a candidate who is not controversial and divisive has a chance to unseat Trump. Biden seems to be more of that than Sanders. I don't think he will be a good POTUS, mainly because he would have the baleful legacy of Trumo to deal with, but he probably won't be a bad prez either.
Again, I am dubious about this take. The GOP has only become more and more radical over time, and the consequences of that have been...a stolen Supreme Court majority, legislatively neutered Democratic governors in states like NC and WI, an expanded Senate GOP majority, and until 2018 a gerrymandered House.

Radicalism in the American context is clearly not anathema to voters.
  #165  
Old 03-12-2020, 12:38 PM
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No, it's not that I am offended by the word "shit".
It's that I expect someone vying for the role of president, to not take a soft question and respond like some drunk starting a brawl.
If Biden were my friend, I would be worried about my friend's temperament. Let alone anyone being put in a position of power and responsibility.

I know we're in the post-Trump-election world here, but I for one am hoping, just maybe, we can begin the crawl out of the gutter?

Anyway, get all your handwaving ready, because there is no doubt in my mind Biden is going to do a lot more of this in the coming weeks, and months if he gets that far.
I don't know why you're more offended than the full of shit guy. At 4:30 in the linked video, he seemed to take it in far better stride than you have.

I think that Biden has decided that a 'fight me' attitude is working for the blue collar folks who do support him. So he aims to keep them and maybe get a few that aren't already on his side. And if that offends some, so be it. He's got the gentle democrat support anyway. It's the gettable Trump voters he's after.
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  #166  
Old 03-12-2020, 12:45 PM
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The Senate gave their advice, and it was "No". Sorry you didn't like it.
Mitch McConnell gave his advice. Mitch McConnell ≠ the Senate. Sorry if you donít like it.
  #167  
Old 03-12-2020, 12:45 PM
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Well, at the very least it sounds like Biden would be much better in a pandemic. His speech and plans for coronavirus are MUCH better than Trump's last night.
  #168  
Old 03-12-2020, 12:48 PM
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Joe Biden winning the election 8 months early IMO.
  #169  
Old 03-12-2020, 12:56 PM
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I don't know why you're more offended than the full of shit guy. At 4:30 in the linked video, he seemed to take it in far better stride than you have.



I think that Biden has decided that a 'fight me' attitude is working for the blue collar folks who do support him. So he aims to keep them and maybe get a few that aren't already on his side. And if that offends some, so be it. He's got the gentle democrat support anyway. It's the gettable Trump voters he's after.
I have not used the word "offended" before this sentence.

I'm not offended. I'm embarrassed, and worried it's just a matter of time before the gaffes reach a level of awful that the electorate won't be able to overlook.

No part of that interaction looked bad to you? Like I say, even his aides seemed concerned to me, trying to end the interaction as quickly as they could.

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 using Tapatalk
  #170  
Old 03-12-2020, 02:05 PM
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I have not used the word "offended" before this sentence.

I'm not offended. I'm embarrassed, and worried it's just a matter of time before the gaffes reach a level of awful that the electorate won't be able to overlook.

No part of that interaction looked bad to you? Like I say, even his aides seemed concerned to me, trying to end the interaction as quickly as they could.

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 using Tapatalk
He does seem to be quicker to anger. But I do think he's made the calculation to be more aggressive and I think it's deliberate for the reasons I've already stated. It may not be a good look to you or me, but if you're already a Biden supporter, or an anti-Trumper considering voting for him, this won't really hurt him. I mean, even the guy he insulted didn't hold it against him.
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  #171  
Old 03-14-2020, 03:49 PM
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In an upcoming debate, Biden would stand up to and attack Trump way more convincingly than Sanders - in the eyes of blue collar swing voters in Wi/Mi/Penn, who see Bernie as more of a "socialist threat" than Biden. This demographic's eyes would glaze over as Bernie would try to excoriate Trump on points on M4A policy, while Biden's homespun meat-and-potatoes ad hominem engagement with Don, would, sadly, be the optics that these voters would calibrate their allegiances to, accordingly.
  #172  
Old 03-14-2020, 04:26 PM
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Well put.
  #173  
Old 03-14-2020, 04:40 PM
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No, it's not that I am offended by the word "shit".
It's that I expect someone vying for the role of president, to not take a soft question and respond like some drunk starting a brawl.
You're lying to yourself. These sentences directly contradict each other no matter how many eye roll smiles you use.

Last edited by CarnalK; 03-14-2020 at 04:42 PM.
  #174  
Old 03-14-2020, 05:05 PM
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I'm all for means testing when it comes to who gets social security benefits. How about you?
Welfarizing a program like Social Security is a sucky idea. Means testing really doesn't save you that much; there are way fewer rich people than there are non-rich people.

What it does, however, is create is a constituency for further cutting the program.

Same would be true of a program for low-cost college at public universities. (Actually even more so, since most rich people will continue to send their kids to Harvard and Yale, rather than UVa or any of the other 'public Ivies.' The money to be saved by excluding them is minimal.)
  #175  
Old 03-14-2020, 05:08 PM
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Well put.
Thanks.
Let's just hope Joe doesn't gaffe up too badly over the next while.
  #176  
Old 03-15-2020, 03:45 AM
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No, it's not that I am offended by the word "shit".
It's that I expect someone vying for the role of president, to not take a soft question and respond like some drunk starting a brawl.
If Biden were my friend, I would be worried about my friend's temperament. Let alone anyone being put in a position of power and responsibility.
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You're lying to yourself. These sentences directly contradict each other no matter how many eye roll smiles you use.
Yes, you're absolutely right...in the universe where all English verbs mean the same thing.

In our universe meanwhile, "worried" and "offended" do not mean the same thing.

If my friend was drunk and starting a brawl, I'd be embarrassed for him, and worried about what was going to happen next. I wouldn't be offended though, why should I be?

Likewise when Biden responds to a fairly polite question with "You're full of shit!" I -- like his aides -- am embarrassed by the tone of the response and think it looks bad for him.
Again, I'm not offended. Not Verb-same-iverse.

Last edited by Mijin; 03-15-2020 at 03:47 AM.
  #177  
Old 03-15-2020, 04:10 AM
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Disagree with the thesis of this thread

I think Biden could be very effective in stalling any meaningful progress on climate change, saving fossil fuel reliant companies trillions in the short run.

He would help keep the medical insurance industry going, costing Americans dearly but lining the pockets of investors.

Private prisons, weapons manufacturing would also do better under Biden.

As a racial segregationist, he would help avoid equality of opportunity issues like slavery repetitions becoming a problem.

Biden would be a very useful force for some issues
  #178  
Old 03-15-2020, 04:20 AM
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Yes, you're absolutely right...in the universe where all English verbs mean the same thing.
Before anyone says it: I know, sarcasm fail -- "worried" and "offended" can be verbs, but here they are being used as adjectives. I meant Same-Adjectiverse...
  #179  
Old 03-15-2020, 05:32 AM
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Thanks.
Let's just hope Joe doesn't gaffe up too badly over the next while.
Yes. This is one reason I think Stacy Abrams would make a good running mate. She speaks so well, including off the cuff and responding to questions -- she could do most of the talking, while Joe drove the pickup trucks and chowed down the barbecued meats.

(Others could do the talking just about as well as Abrams -- Castro, Booker, McCaskill...)
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