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  #41951  
Old 03-26-2020, 09:48 PM
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ShitGibbon allegedly put Chinese President Xi on hold so that he could talk to Hannity on the air (this may or may not be a slight exaggeration, or perhaps lie number 83417).
  #41952  
Old 03-26-2020, 09:53 PM
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Citing virus, EPA has stopped enforcing environmental laws:
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The Environmental Protection Agency on Thursday abruptly waived enforcement on a range of legally mandated public health and environmental protections, saying industries could have trouble complying with them during the coronavirus pandemic.

The oil and gas industry were among the industries that had sought an advance relaxation of environmental and public health enforcement during the outbreak, citing potential staffing problems. The EPA’s decision was sweeping, forgoing fines or other civil penalties for companies that failed to monitor, report or meet some other requirements for releasing hazardous pollutants.
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In a statement, EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler said the open-ended waiver was temporary and retroactive to March 13.
  #41953  
Old 03-26-2020, 09:58 PM
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more Disaster Capitalism
  #41954  
Old 03-26-2020, 11:28 PM
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I can't find a decent synonym for diseased, infected, or sick beginning with G. Anyone want to try? "MAGA = Make America Xxxx Again".

And we have a winner!

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MAGA - Make America Gasp for Air
  #41955  
Old 03-27-2020, 12:32 AM
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I saw this clip today.

Peter Navarro (White House trade adviser) helpfully explains to CNN's Brianna Keilar that Trump has taken decisive action and this whole thing is China and Obama's fault. See, Obama apparently left the cupboard empty for the Trump administration. And, the US doesn't need the projected number of ventilators anyway.

I'm not sure how this squares with Trump saying the virus would miraculously go away, that there would soon be zero cases, and disbanding the pandemic team at the NSC but as one Trumpster I saw on Facebook explained, Obama's team was so bad that Trump had to disband it in order to create his own functional team (although they never got around to it, apparently). This seems to be a Trump defender talking point now:

No, the White House didn’t ‘dissolve’ its pandemic response office. I was there.


This person has a different view:

I ran the White House pandemic office. Trump closed it.

[Washington Post pieces may be paywalled]

Snopes take on it:

Did Trump Administration Fire the US Pandemic Response Team?


True

Quote:
Legum outlined a series of cost-cutting decisions made by the Trump administration in preceding years that had gutted the nation’s infectious disease defense infrastructure. The “pandemic response team” firing claim referred to news accounts from Spring 2018 reporting that White House officials tasked with directing a national response to a pandemic had been ousted.

Rear Adm. Timothy Ziemer abruptly departed from his post leading the global health security team on the National Security Council in May 2018 amid a reorganization of the council by then-National Security Advisor John Bolton, and Ziemer’s team was disbanded. Tom Bossert, whom the Washington Post reported “had called for a comprehensive biodefense strategy against pandemics and biological attacks,” had been fired one month prior.

It’s thus true that the Trump administration axed the executive branch team responsible for coordinating a response to a pandemic and did not replace it, eliminating Ziemer’s position and reassigning others, although Bolton was the executive at the top of the National Security Council chain of command at the time.
  #41956  
Old 03-27-2020, 01:00 AM
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Makes one wonder when Tony Fauci will be shown the door.
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Originally Posted by dasmoocher View Post
And Trump will say he knows more about infectious disease than anybody, so who needs Fauci? (Has Trump already said that yet?)
I guess at least Lou Dobbs is saying something like it:

As Trump signals readiness to break with experts, his online base assails Fauci

Quote:
A cadre of right-wing news sites pulled from the fringes in recent years through repeated mention by President Trump is now taking aim at Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s top infectious diseases expert, who has given interviews in which he has tempered praise for the president with doubts about his pronouncements.

Although both men are seeking to tamp down the appearance of tension — “Great job,” Trump commended the doctor during the White House’s briefing on Tuesday — the president is increasingly chafing against medical consensus. He has found support from a chorus of conservative commentators who have cheered his promise to get the U.S. economy going again as well as his decision to tout possible coronavirus treatments not yet approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

“The president was right, and frankly Fauci was wrong,” Lou Dobbs said Monday on his show on the Fox Business Network, referring to the use of experimental medicine.

Beyond prime-time television, however, the disregard for expert guidance being pushed by some conservative and libertarian voices goes further — aimed not simply at proving Fauci wrong but at painting him as an agent of the “deep state” that Trump has vowed to dismantle. The smear campaign taking root online, and laying the groundwork for Trump to cast aside the experts on his own coronavirus task force, relies centrally on the idea that there is no expertise that rises above partisanship, and that everyone has an agenda.

...

Peter Barry Chowka, whose Twitter bio boasts that he has been retweeted by the president, recently referred to Fauci, who has advised multiple presidents of both parties, as a “Deep-State Hillary Clinton-loving stooge.” Trump has not brought these attacks to his own Twitter feed, but he has surfaced previous pieces by Chowka, including praise for Sean Hannity of Fox News.
Who knew? Fauci, who has led NIAID since the '80s, is a "Deep State" plant whose goal is not to combat this outbreak but to bring down Trump by advocating preventive measures that will crash the economy.

This really will be a case of Trump supporters cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Edit: I just saw this video from The Young Turks:

Dr. Fauci Conspiracy Theories Spread By Right-wingers

Last edited by dasmoocher; 03-27-2020 at 01:04 AM.
  #41957  
Old 03-27-2020, 04:50 AM
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I think it might be about time to invoke "national emergency" and use that as authorization to put those nitwit conspiracy theorists in prison for spreading their nonsense.

Oops. My mistake. Their top nut is the freaking president of the United States. We're doomed.
  #41958  
Old 03-27-2020, 05:46 AM
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Damnit. Duplicate.

Last edited by Monty; 03-27-2020 at 05:49 AM.
  #41959  
Old 03-27-2020, 06:12 AM
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Great clip! I especialy enjoyed that twerp saying "the Biden administration". Maybe he realizes his boss is on the way out.

The twerp also stated as fact that "GM and Ford are repurposing factories now".
  #41960  
Old 03-27-2020, 07:11 AM
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Great clip! I especialy enjoyed that twerp saying "the Biden administration". Maybe he realizes his boss is on the way out.

The twerp also stated as fact that "GM and Ford are repurposing factories now".
Yeah, and that GM will supply, by the end of the year, a few thousand ventilators that are needed in the next 2-3 weeks.
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Old 03-27-2020, 07:44 AM
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Great clip! I especialy enjoyed that twerp saying "the Biden administration". Maybe he realizes his boss is on the way out.

The twerp also stated as fact that "GM and Ford are repurposing factories now".
All of Trump's pressers seem like he's plugging American private enterprise.
  #41962  
Old 03-27-2020, 07:52 AM
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A Single Ventilator for Multiple Simulated Patients to Meet Disaster Surge.
Greg Neyman, M.D., Charlene Babcock Irwin, M.D.
Academy of Emergency Medicine, November 2006, Vol 13, No. 11, www.emg.org
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...em.2006.05.009

Her youtube vid about the kluge, in which she notes that it succeeded in the Vegas massacre, and she also notes that since all the patients would be suffering from the same virus, cross-contamination is not as big a risk in the context of them dying without the ventilator:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uClq978oohY

Perth, Ontario, Dr. Alain Guthier, an anesthetist with a PhD in respiratory mechanics, has rigged up one.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...d-19-1.5501891
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  #41963  
Old 03-27-2020, 08:23 AM
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Canadian retired respiratory therapist has designed a ventilator and made it open source.
https://open-source-covid-19-ventilator-canada.mn.co/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...id19-1.5511412
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  #41964  
Old 03-27-2020, 08:31 AM
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Dipstick turns down NY request for ventilators because he just doesn't believe they need that many. So it's the word of health experts vs Donald's gut as to who gets to live. Be honest, Oranganus, it's because you're pissed that Cuomo looks like the leader that you can never be.
  #41965  
Old 03-27-2020, 08:34 AM
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Yeah, and that GM will supply, by the end of the year, a few thousand ventilators that are needed in the next 2-3 weeks.
After Considering $1 Billion Price Tag for Ventilators, White House Has Second Thoughts.

$1 Billion is too much money for 80,000 ventilators for some to stomach. We are edging closer to being able to calculate the exact value that Republicans put on human lives.

Too be fair, this might be one of the 'death panels' that they told us were coming.
  #41966  
Old 03-27-2020, 08:39 AM
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Yeah, and that GM will supply, by the end of the year, a few thousand ventilators that are needed in the next 2-3 weeks.
Here's another clip from the progressive David Packman show (~4:00 mins long) where he shows Trump, besides being amazed there are infra-red thermometers, talking about how the US will soon be producing a lot of complex and sophisticated machines that are known as ventilators. Then Mike Pence at the podium says that ventilators are not complicated and companies are surging forward to produce them.

So,

Trump: ventilators are complex, sophisticated, computerized machines.

Pence, immediately later: ventilators are simple and easy to make.

Why, it's like their message is confused.
  #41967  
Old 03-27-2020, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Kabong View Post
Yeah, and that GM will supply, by the end of the year, a few thousand ventilators that are needed in the next 2-3 weeks.
After Considering $1 Billion Price Tag for Ventilators, White House Has Second Thoughts.

$1 Billion is too much money for 80,000 ventilators for some to stomach. We are edging closer to being able to calculate the exact value that Republicans put on human lives.

Too be fair, this might be one of the 'death panels' that they told us were coming.
Honestly, I would have cancelled the deal because spending a billion dollars to retool an auto parts factory to perhaps be able to make ventilators months from now (by which, perhaps, the crisis is past) seems a wasted effort. Could the existing ventilator production lines be expanded or duplicated more quickly?
  #41968  
Old 03-27-2020, 08:55 AM
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After Considering $1 Billion Price Tag for Ventilators, White House Has Second Thoughts.

$1 Billion is too much money for 80,000 ventilators for some to stomach. We are edging closer to being able to calculate the exact value that Republicans put on human lives.

Too be fair, this might be one of the 'death panels' that they told us were coming.
“I don’t believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators,” he said, a reference to New York, where Gov. Andrew Cuomo has appealed for federal help in obtaining them. “You go into major hospitals sometimes, and they’ll have two ventilators. And now all of a sudden they’re saying, ‘Can we order 30,000 ventilators?’”

Yes. There are not enough. Even major hospitals may only have a few.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
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Old 03-27-2020, 08:57 AM
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Except GM is likely to get a bail out when this is over. Might as well get something useful out of the pile of cash.
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Old 03-27-2020, 09:00 AM
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“I don’t believe you need 40,000 or 30,000 ventilators,” he said, a reference to New York, where Gov. Andrew Cuomo has appealed for federal help in obtaining them. “You go into major hospitals sometimes, and they’ll have two ventilators. And now all of a sudden they’re saying, ‘Can we order 30,000 ventilators?’”

Yes. There are not enough. Even major hospitals may only have a few.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
It continues to amaze me how people can't grok the concept of exponential growth. Like we've gone from 100 cases to 1000 cases in a few days and people have just normalized to that new number, "Well 1000 cases isn't too bad." They just seem to be incapable of continuing that line in their heads up to 100,000 and see the inevitable future of people dying in hallways.
  #41971  
Old 03-27-2020, 09:10 AM
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It continues to amaze me how people can't grok the concept of exponential growth. Like we've gone from 100 cases to 1000 cases in a few days and people have just normalized to that new number, "Well 1000 cases isn't too bad." They just seem to be incapable of continuing that line in their heads up to 100,000 and see the inevitable future of people dying in hallways.
Let's face it: planning ahead has never been their strong suit.
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Old 03-27-2020, 09:13 AM
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I guess if this is another aspect of Trump's fundamental stupidity. Both Forbe's and Bloomberg have run articles stating that if Trump had left his daddy's money in a conservative stock portfolio, he'd have between 4 and 10 times as much money as he says he has. Which is probably a lot more money than he really has.

I think he really, fundamentally doesn't understand exponential growth.
  #41973  
Old 03-27-2020, 09:14 AM
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Or for that matter the multiplication tables.
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Old 03-27-2020, 09:19 AM
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Or for that matter the multiplication tables.
Who knew multiplication could be so complicated.
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Old 03-27-2020, 09:21 AM
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Who knew multiplication could be so complicated.
All those numbers... who knew there were so many numbers?? Make them go away!
  #41976  
Old 03-27-2020, 09:37 AM
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All those numbers... who knew there were so many numbers?? Make them go away!
Can Trump invent so many numbers even he can't understand them all?
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Old 03-27-2020, 09:45 AM
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I'm surprised he's willing to even look at numbers, considering they're Arabic.
  #41978  
Old 03-27-2020, 09:51 AM
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I'm surprised he's willing to even look at numbers, considering they're Arabic.
This is why he hires "short guys that wear yarmulkes every day."

source for quote
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Old 03-27-2020, 09:55 AM
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Can Trump invent so many numbers even he can't understand them all?
Maybe someone should introduce him to the concept of "imaginary numbers," which, let's face it, sounds like a hop, skip, and a jump from FAKE NUMBERS!

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I'm surprised he's willing to even look at numbers, considering they're Arabic.
He probably doesn't know this but someone should tell him immediately.
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Old 03-27-2020, 09:58 AM
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It continues to amaze me how people can't grok the concept of exponential growth. Like we've gone from 100 cases to 1000 cases in a few days and people have just normalized to that new number, "Well 1000 cases isn't too bad." They just seem to be incapable of continuing that line in their heads up to 100,000 and see the inevitable future of people dying in hallways.
Maybe they need a simple example.

Pennies on a chessboard.

Video illustrating exponential growth.
  #41981  
Old 03-27-2020, 10:21 AM
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As Trump signals readiness to break with experts, his online base assails Fauci


Who knew? Fauci, who has led NIAID since the '80s, is a "Deep State" plant whose goal is not to combat this outbreak but to bring down Trump by advocating preventive measures that will crash the economy.

This really will be a case of Trump supporters cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Edit: I just saw this video from The Young Turks:

Dr. Fauci Conspiracy Theories Spread By Right-wingers
Of course we know who Individual-ONE will replace Fauci with. The perfect "doctor" to deal with a hoax pandemic: Dr. Oz.

I mean, how could a con man not adore a scam artist?
  #41982  
Old 03-27-2020, 10:24 AM
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After Considering $1 Billion Price Tag for Ventilators, White House Has Second Thoughts.

$1 Billion is too much money for 80,000 ventilators for some to stomach. We are edging closer to being able to calculate the exact value that Republicans put on human lives.

Too be fair, this might be one of the 'death panels' that they told us were coming.
Someone please check my math, but 80K ventilators at a total cost of $1 billion works out to $12,500 per unit. If the Internet is to be believed, new respiratory ventilators cost somewhere between $25-50K depending on features. Chevy Ventilators = bargain!

Of course, they will show up far too late to ameliorate the present crisis. Oh, well, if this thing resurges next autumn, as some are predicting...
  #41983  
Old 03-27-2020, 10:37 AM
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A couple more examples of the Trump Administration's incompetence and corruption leading to a worsening of the pandemic.

WaPo is reporting that there are 1.5 million of the coveted N95 masks (they're expired, but the CDC says they can be used for the outbreak) in a warehouse in Indiana. Rather than send those masks to the health care professionals who are badly in need of them in LA or NY or even to FEMA, the Trump administration has decided to give them to ... the Department of Transportation.

And, USA today is reporting that the fuckups about testing for Covid 19 early in the crises are having catastrophic effects. "From its biggest cities to its smallest towns, America’s chance to contain the coronavirus crisis came and went in the seven weeks since U.S. health officials botched the testing rollout and then misled scientists in state laboratories about this critical early failure. Federal regulators failed to recognize the spiraling disaster and were slow to relax the rules that prevented labs and major hospitals from advancing a backup."
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:44 AM
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I hope this doesn't backfire. Calling trump names and pointing out his incompetence backfired bigtime on Hillary.
She didn't have the advantage of somebody's Nana cooling next to them while they listened as she critiqued.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:50 AM
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A couple more examples of the Trump Administration's incompetence and corruption leading to a worsening of the pandemic.
An opinion piece summary of slumlord Jared Kushner's role in this:

Don’t Worry, America, Jared Kushner Is Going to Save You From COVID-19

Quote:
Wednesday, during the latest installment of his daily briefings that have become must-see TV, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said he spoke with Jared Kushner. You know Kushner—the president’s son-in-law. The president's son-in-law is a member of the president’s COVID-19 taskforce, but he is not a doctor or an elected official. In fact, Jared has no experience handling pandemics, or any medical background whatsoever. Jared Kushner doesn’t know about science or medicine but Cuomo must appeal to him for help from the federal government.

And that’s not the only place the president’s son-in-law has popped up the last few days. One of the biggest questions we've all been puzzling over is, why won’t the president invoke the wartime Defense Production Act to force companies to make ventilators?

He “signed two executive orders citing provisions of the Defense Production Act” but then refused to use those provisions. Later it was revealed that Trump refused to use the wartime law “reportedly after corporations successfully lobbied his top adviser and son-in-law, Jared Kushner.” Meanwhile, Cuomo holds continual pressers that have the same refrain again and again: “We need the federal help, and we need the federal help now.”
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:57 AM
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It continues to amaze me how people can't grok the concept of exponential growth. Like we've gone from 100 cases to 1000 cases in a few days and people have just normalized to that new number, "Well 1000 cases isn't too bad." They just seem to be incapable of continuing that line in their heads up to 100,000 and see the inevitable future of people dying in hallways.
Ditto this ^^^

People in this country know just enough about statistics and data to be dangerous.
  #41987  
Old 03-27-2020, 11:01 AM
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Someone please check my math, but 80K ventilators at a total cost of $1 billion works out to $12,500 per unit. If the Internet is to be believed, new respiratory ventilators cost somewhere between $25-50K depending on features. Chevy Ventilators = bargain!

Of course, they will show up far too late to ameliorate the present crisis. Oh, well, if this thing resurges next autumn, as some are predicting...
This page on Medtronic's website says they cost $25,000-50,000. So yes, a billion dollars to retool a factory and produce ventilators isn't going to get you 80,000 of them.

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 03-27-2020 at 11:03 AM.
  #41988  
Old 03-27-2020, 11:06 AM
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She didn't have the advantage of somebody's Nana cooling next to them while they listened as she critiqued.
Hmmm... there is that...
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Old 03-27-2020, 11:06 AM
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This page on Medtronic's website says they cost $25,000-50,000. So yes, a billion dollars to retool a factory and produce ventilators isn't going to get you 80,000 of them.
Is that production cost or sale cost?
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Old 03-27-2020, 11:16 AM
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I assume that's sales cost. But how much of the billion is needed for fixed costs? And if, hypothetically, the US government does manage to produce and distribute 80,000 ventilators at cost, that's going to decimate the commercial ventilator business for the next decade.
  #41991  
Old 03-27-2020, 12:00 PM
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The NY Times (god bless them) just launched the results of their effort to track CV cases at the county level. Their article (paywalled) says (bolding mine):

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Originally Posted by NY Times
As the coronavirus has spread across the United States, killing hundreds of people and sickening tens of thousands more, comprehensive data on the extent of the outbreak has been difficult to come by.
No single agency has provided the public with an accurate, up-to-date record of coronavirus cases, tracked to the county level.
To fill the gap, The New York Times has launched a round-the-clock effort to tally every known coronavirus cases in the United States.
Kudos to the Times, and a giant Fuck You to the Trump CV Response Team. This is *your* job, assholes.
  #41992  
Old 03-27-2020, 12:40 PM
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The NY Times (god bless them) just launched the results of their effort to track CV cases at the county level. Their article (paywalled) says (bolding mine):



Kudos to the Times, and a giant Fuck You to the Trump CV Response Team. This is *your* job, assholes.
But that would reduce FREEDOM!! Everyone should do their own tracking independently! Obviously that’s way more efficient! /S
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Old 03-27-2020, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jsc1953 View Post
Kudos to the Times, and a giant Fuck You to the Trump CV Response Team. This is *your* job, assholes.
No, that's what their job is supposed to be. I'm sure we all know what job they're actually doing.
  #41994  
Old 03-27-2020, 01:00 PM
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But that would reduce FREEDOM!! Everyone should do their own tracking independently! Obviously that’s way more efficient! /S
In fact, it's practically communism to have the government track disease cases. Everyone knows that the free market will do a better job of this. Unless it's the horrible New York Times, which is run by Godless Librerals.
  #41995  
Old 03-27-2020, 01:14 PM
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that's going to decimate the commercial ventilator business for the next decade.
To me that is entirely the wrong thing to be thinking about.
  #41996  
Old 03-27-2020, 01:43 PM
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To me that is entirely the wrong thing to be thinking about.
Don't worry. The Trump administration's solution will probably entail making all those lazy laid-off people who will receive stimulus checks to come into clinics and hospitals and use much cheaper fireplace billows to manually ventilate patients.

Win, win for Trump and guys like Lindsey Graham who are complaining about how those checks will incentivize people into not trying to work.

Those unemployed people will have to earn their checks now, and billows must be orders of magnitude less costly than real ventilators.
  #41997  
Old 03-27-2020, 01:50 PM
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So being stuck "working" from home recently, I've been spending far too much time on the web.

On a whim I typed this query into Google: "what has that stupid sob done now."

Google Search

The results were enlightening.
  #41998  
Old 03-27-2020, 01:50 PM
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that's going to decimate the commercial ventilator business for the next decade.
To me that is entirely the wrong thing to be thinking about.
It's a consideration if it means the existing players in the industry get out of the ventilator business. Where will we be when these 80,000 ventilators reach end of life? Who will be there to supply new ones? Perhaps, if 80,000 ventilators are built under this project, perhaps they should be stored in the Strategic Ventilator Reserve when the COVID-19 emergency ends. That, at least, avoids flooding the market.

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 03-27-2020 at 01:54 PM.
  #41999  
Old 03-27-2020, 02:01 PM
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Perhaps, if 80,000 ventilators are built under this project, perhaps they should be stored in the Strategic Ventilator Reserve when the COVID-19 emergency ends.
Overseen, of course, by Top Men.
  #42000  
Old 03-27-2020, 02:24 PM
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Individual 1 first claims that we don't need that many respirators, then demands that GM open a closed plant to start making new respirators. Thing is, GM doesn't own that plant any more, and Individual 1 knows it because he talked about it a year ago (also, he tweeted his demand to a nonexistent Twitter account)
https://politicaltribune.org/trump-s...tory-last-year
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