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  #151  
Old 02-12-2020, 12:15 PM
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Good intentions aren't enough, if they lead to bad policies. And this seems to illustrate a problematic Bloombergian mindset: "Let's keep doing what wasn't working before, but this time we'll throw more money at it". It's the attitude that brought us the Vietnam and Iraq wars.
Agreed, they are not enough, because the goal in the end is to fix the problem, not just to try and fix it. But they should count for something, I think. Maybe you could elaborate on the Bloombergian mindset, though. Do you mean as mayor or otherwise?
  #152  
Old 02-12-2020, 12:17 PM
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Late start in this discussion.

Shouldn't Bloomberg if he really wants to win actually be out there campaigning? You know the old travelling around, kissing babies, making speeches, eat at local diners and shaking hands, etc...

All I see from him is annoying ads on you tube.

Ok, another point.

In one ad he brags how he shut down some coal burning power plants. Ok, that sounds nice, but what did he replace them with? Electricity has to come from somewhere.
  #153  
Old 02-12-2020, 12:41 PM
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Late start in this discussion.

Shouldn't Bloomberg if he really wants to win actually be out there campaigning? You know the old travelling around, kissing babies, making speeches, eat at local diners and shaking hands, etc...

All I see from him is annoying ads on you tube.
In the past two weeks Bloomberg has been to:
-Florida
-Michigan
-Virginia
-California
-Maine
-Washington DC
-Pennsylvania
-Texas
-Oklahoma
-Tennessee
-Alabama

To name a few.

Plus he has plans to be in North Carolina tomorrow.
  #154  
Old 02-12-2020, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Urbanredneck View Post
Late start in this discussion.

Shouldn't Bloomberg if he really wants to win actually be out there campaigning? You know the old travelling around, kissing babies, making speeches, eat at local diners and shaking hands, etc...

All I see from him is annoying ads on you tube.
He joined the race too late to get on the ballot for earlier primaries. He is pinning his hopes on Super Tuesday, IIUC.

His claim to have shut down a lot of coal plants is a bit misleading. They have been replaced mostly by oil-fired plants and, especially, natural gas. And, to be fair, some renewable sources as well.

He also wants to shut down natural gas plants. He wants to replace them with "clean energy". I don't find many references to nuclear energy on his website, so it is hard to tell if he is serious or not.

Regards,
Shodan
  #155  
Old 02-12-2020, 03:10 PM
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This fails utterly as an attempt at an analogy. Hitler's goal was to kill people. Bloomberg's goal was to prevent people from being killed.
...it doesn't fail as an analogy. But you don't have to use this particular analogy. I've got a million others. Like the anti-vaxxer analogy that you conveniently ignored. The goal of the anti-vaxxer is to stop people dying. Do they get credit because "their hearts are in the right place?"

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Possibly, or it could simply mean that his policies failed in spite of his good intentions. But since you feel Bloomberg might have had other motivations, what might those be?
What part of "I don't give a fuck about his motivations" are you failing to understand?

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Why the snark? It's tiring.
Welcome to the Straight Dope. Enjoy the veal.

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I am not here to defend Stop and Frisk, and haven't done so. I was against it when it came out and I am against it now.
How could you have been against it? You literally asked me for a cite that sometimes the police threw people up against the wall. You know nothing about stop and frisk.

Quote:
This thread is about Bloomberg's campaign to become president. You think his policy disqualifies him completely, and I respect that opinion. I just happen to think that if someone is trying to save the lives of people, when he is literally trying to keep people alive who would otherwise be killed due to crime in the city he was elected to protect, that he should get some credit for it. But you just dismiss it out of hand, and imply some other motivation.
So you think Bloomberg deserves some credit for a racist policy that terrorized the lives of hundreds of thousands of people of colour in New York for a decade. I'll just quote what I said in my first post in this thread:

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Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
...I just don't understand how anyone could think that someone responsible for such a horrendous, racist, dehumanizing, punitive unconstitutional policy is even remotely qualified to win the nomination. Its almost as if black lives don't matter.

And then I remember that millions of people also voted for Donald Trump and things make more sense.
Yes: I'm dismissing Bloomberg out of hand: and I think I'm justified in doing so. He deserves as much credit for "trying to save lives" as Andrew Wakefield does for his contributions to the medical industry. You've erased black voices from your narrative. You ignore the racism, you ignore the impact this policy had on the black community, you ignore the fact that the policy was obviously unconstitutional. You ignore the fact that Bloomberg still defended Stop and Frisk in 2019.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloomberg in Jan this year
Taking questions from the audience during the United States Naval Academy's 2019 Leadership Conference, Bloomberg was told by a Naval Academy midshipman that "there have been a lot of controversies surrounding your support of the policy of stop and frisk that was being used by law enforcement to target African-Americans and Hispanic-Americans."

"What would you say to those in the two communities that have been negatively affected by the policy that you supported in the past?" the midshipman asked Bloomberg.

"We focused on keeping kids from going through the correctional system ... kids who walked around looking like they might have a gun, remove the gun from their pockets and stop it," Bloomberg said.

...

But on Tuesday, Bloomberg once again voiced his support for "stop and frisk" policing, adding, "I think it's also true that most police departments around the world do the same thing, they just don't report it or use the terminology."
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/22/p...isk/index.html

This man deserves no credit.
  #156  
Old 02-12-2020, 03:14 PM
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One wonders exactly what characteristics these kids might have had that make them "look like they might have a gun".
  #157  
Old 02-12-2020, 03:52 PM
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All I see from him is annoying ads on you tube.
Lucky you. Around here (Texas), it seems like every fourth commercial is a Mike Bloomberg commercial, of which there are maybe 3 variants.
  #158  
Old 02-12-2020, 04:20 PM
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I am curious to see if a backlash will develop to Bloomberg among the elite Democratic donor class; the ordinary multimillionaires who are accustomed to spending campaign season paying $25,000 to attend parties in wine caves, where the candidate personally kisses their ass in an attempt to shake loose some real money.

They probably like Bloomberg's policies, but his model cuts them out of the picture as surely as Bernie's does. We'll see if money starts rolling in for Buttigieg and/or Klobuchar.
  #159  
Old 02-12-2020, 04:36 PM
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They probably like Bloomberg's policies, but his model cuts them out of the picture as surely as Bernie's does. We'll see if money starts rolling in for Buttigieg and/or Klobuchar.
I mean where did you think Buttigieg's money has been coming in from? It isn't like the elite donors were bankrolling Biden's campaign that much.
  #160  
Old 02-12-2020, 04:38 PM
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...it doesn't fail as an analogy. But you don't have to use this particular analogy. I've got a million others. Like the anti-vaxxer analogy that you conveniently ignored. The goal of the anti-vaxxer is to stop people dying. Do they get credit because "their hearts are in the right place?"
I did not conveniently ignore anything. When you make a failed analogy, why should I just move on to the next one? Why? I don't have time to respond to everything you say. And sorry, but you are the one conveniently ignoring. I told you why the Hitler analogy was faulty, and you didn't defend it.

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What part of "I don't give a fuck about his motivations" are you failing to understand?
You suggested he had other motivations, not me, so I asked you about them. Now, I understand that you also don't have time to respond to everything I say, so if you still don't want to tell me what they might be, fine.

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How could you have been against it? You literally asked me for a cite that sometimes the police threw people up against the wall. You know nothing about stop and frisk.
I lived in New York City when Bloomberg was mayor. I was here when SaF was implemented. As I've said, I was against it then and I'm against it now. Asking you about specific abuses does NOT mean I know nothing about it. And it certainly does not mean that I did not know how it was carried out, which is to say, by the indiscriminate detaining of people because of what they look like.

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So you think Bloomberg deserves some credit for a racist policy that terrorized the lives of hundreds of thousands of people of colour in New York for a decade.
I said he deserved credit for trying to save lives, not for the willful terrorizing of anyone.

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Yes: I'm dismissing Bloomberg out of hand: and I think I'm justified in doing so. He deserves as much credit for "trying to save lives" as Andrew Wakefield does for his contributions to the medical industry. You've erased black voices from your narrative. You ignore the racism, you ignore the impact this policy had on the black community, you ignore the fact that the policy was obviously unconstitutional. You ignore the fact that Bloomberg still defended Stop and Frisk in 2019.
This once again shows that you are missing my point. I have NO "narrative" concerning SaF and I am not here to defend it. If I were here to do that and did as you say, yes that would mean I was erasing black voices, ignoring racism, etc., but it's not the case.
  #161  
Old 02-12-2020, 04:50 PM
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I did not conveniently ignore anything. When you make a failed analogy, why should I just move on to the next one? Why?
...but I didn't make a failed analogy.

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I don't have time to respond to everything you say. And sorry, but you are the one conveniently ignoring. I told you why the Hitler analogy was faulty, and you didn't defend it.
Why should Bloomberg get credit for his motivations? Should we give Andrew Wakefield credit for his motivations?

Quote:
You suggested he had other motivations, not me, so I asked you about them. Now, I understand that you also don't have time to respond to everything I say, so if you still don't want to tell me what they might be, fine.
I don't care about his motivations. The claim that he was motivated because "of the children" was the claim I was addressing.

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I lived in New York City when Bloomberg was mayor. I was here when SaF was implemented. As I've said, I was against it then and I'm against it now. Asking you about specific abuses does NOT mean I know nothing about it. And it certainly does not mean that I did not know how it was carried out, which is to say, by the indiscriminate detaining of people because of what they look like.
You lived in New York City while Bloomberg was Mayor and you didn't know that the police sometimes threw people up against the wall.

I think that says it all really.

Quote:
I said he deserved credit for trying to save lives, not for the willful terrorizing of anyone.
Does Andrew Wakefield deserve credit for trying to save lives?

Quote:
This once again shows that you are missing my point. I have NO "narrative" concerning SaF and I am not here to defend it. If I were here to do that and did as you say, yes that would mean I was erasing black voices, ignoring racism, etc., but it's not the case.
Yet another post from you, yet again not one ounce of empathy for the people that Bloomberg terrorised for a decade.

As I said: its almost as if black lives don't matter. The narrative is crystal clear.
  #162  
Old 02-12-2020, 05:07 PM
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Don't spend too much time worrying about Bloomberg as the nominee. For that to happen Sanders, Pete, and Warren would all have to quit the race or end up 6 feet under.
  #163  
Old 02-12-2020, 05:13 PM
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Don't spend too much time worrying about Bloomberg as the nominee. For that to happen Sanders, Pete, and Warren would all have to quit the race or end up 6 feet under.
Or if he wins more delegates than them.

I know it's traditional that the winner of the first two matchups is a favorite but I really don't think it's happening for Buttigieg. Even with a good bounce, he needs a lot better numbers in the other states. In fact, Pete and Bloomberg's odds of winning are about the same way n 538 right now.
  #164  
Old 02-12-2020, 05:23 PM
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If anybody is close to enough votes on first ballot they won't suddenly dump that person. They will probably win on 2nd ballot.
  #165  
Old 02-12-2020, 05:45 PM
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...but I didn't make a failed analogy.



Why should Bloomberg get credit for his motivations? Should we give Andrew Wakefield credit for his motivations?



I don't care about his motivations. The claim that he was motivated because "of the children" was the claim I was addressing.



You lived in New York City while Bloomberg was Mayor and you didn't know that the police sometimes threw people up against the wall.

I think that says it all really.



Does Andrew Wakefield deserve credit for trying to save lives?



Yet another post from you, yet again not one ounce of empathy for the people that Bloomberg terrorised for a decade.

As I said: its almost as if black lives don't matter. The narrative is crystal clear.
Except, apparently, to all the black lives currently endorsing Bloomberg.

You don't like Bloomberg. Got it.
  #166  
Old 02-12-2020, 05:54 PM
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Except, apparently, to all the black lives currently endorsing Bloomberg.

You don't like Bloomberg. Got it.
...don't use black people as a shield to protect the man who terrorised communities of colour for just over a decade. You can pretend that Bloomberg didn't support, promote and defend a racist policy that disproportionately targeted people of colour if you like. You can pretend that he wasn't still defending that policy this year until it was politically inconvenient to do so. You are welcome to erase black people from the narrative except for the ones that happen to agree with you.

I've got it. I know exactly where you stand.
  #167  
Old 02-12-2020, 05:56 PM
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...don't use black people as a shield to protect the man who terrorised communities of colour for just over a decade. You can pretend that Bloomberg didn't support, promote and defend a racist policy that disproportionately targeted people of colour if you like. You can pretend that he wasn't still defending that policy this year until it was politically inconvenient to do so. You are welcome to erase black people from the narrative except for the ones that happen to agree with you.

I've got it. I know exactly where you stand.
So what are you saying about me if I don't condemn Bloomberg completely? Spell it out explicitly, please.

Last edited by Happy Lendervedder; 02-12-2020 at 06:00 PM.
  #168  
Old 02-12-2020, 06:04 PM
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So what are you saying about me if I don't condemn Bloomberg? Spell it out explicitly, please.
...I've said what I said. You are happy to support a man who terrorised black communities for a decade. You've had plenty of opportunity to condemn those acts in this thread but you haven't. You could have taken a stand like RTFirefly who concedes that "he's a racist, sexist asshole" but would vote for him if he were the eventual nominee. (And if I lived in America I would do exactly the same thing) But you haven't.

What else is there for me to say?
  #169  
Old 02-12-2020, 06:14 PM
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Wait, so everyone in this thread who hasn't explicitly come out and condemned stop and frisk to your satisfaction is... what, exactly?
  #170  
Old 02-12-2020, 06:29 PM
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Wait, so everyone in this thread who hasn't explicitly come out and condemned stop and frisk to your satisfaction is... what, exactly?
...I've never seen a more obvious attempt to bait someone into breaking the rules of this board than this.

But it isn't going to work.

Because you are fundamentally missing the point. My opinion on other posters isn't relevant here in Great Debates. The fact that people are so willing to overlook the fact that Bloomberg terrorised communities of colour for a decade is relevant to this debate. This thread is full of rational, intelligent, nice people who are prepared to ignore what Bloomberg did because there is a possibility he might be more "electable" than the other candidates. It doesn't matter that the word "electable" doesn't really mean anything, we can't measure it, and in the current climate is almost impossible to accurately gauge.

Bloomberg would be a terrible candidate. He would be terrible because of what he's done before, he would be terrible because his moral centre can turn on a dime. He is only in the race because he is pumping millions of dollars into propaganda. The question really should be why are you supporting this person who has done these terrible, terrible things?
  #171  
Old 02-12-2020, 06:36 PM
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He seems like a smart cookie who gets things done with generally positive policy positions. If he's the nominee, the black voters will likely give him a pass on stop n frisk. He'd be a solid candidate.
  #172  
Old 02-12-2020, 06:41 PM
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...I've never seen a more obvious attempt to bait someone into breaking the rules of this board than this.

But it isn't going to work.
No baiting. You just seem to be on the hairy edge of making some pretty serious implications about the character of me and, it seems, anyone else who doesn't toe your line on Bloomberg.
  #173  
Old 02-12-2020, 06:42 PM
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He seems like a smart cookie who gets things done with generally positive policy positions. If he's the nominee, the black voters will likely give him a pass on stop n frisk. He'd be a solid candidate.
...all of the candidates are smart cookies who get things done with generally positive policy positions. All of the candidates are solid candidates. If someone else becomes the nominee then black voters will likely give them a pass on all things they've done in the past.

I'm not seeing why Bloomberg is so much better than the other nominees that we should overlook what he's done.
  #174  
Old 02-12-2020, 06:44 PM
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...but I didn't make a failed analogy.
Then tell me how my assertion about the Hitler analogy was wrong.

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Why should Bloomberg get credit for his motivations? Should we give Andrew Wakefield credit for his motivations?
Forgive me as I really don't want to research Wakefield now, as that's really for another thread I think, so just a general comment about your earlier anti-vax analogy. Bloomberg, a long time advocate for gun control, looked at the science saying fewer guns means fewer deaths, and tried to get guns off the streets to save lives. Anti-vax people ignore the science that says vaccinations save lives, but act in a way that will result in more deaths. I don't think your analogy holds.

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You lived in New York City while Bloomberg was Mayor and you didn't know that the police sometimes threw people up against the wall.

I think that says it all really.
I heartily disagree. Yes, I did live there and as I said I was against SaF then. Truly without trying to sound snarky, I did not do drive-alongs with the NYPD and see what they did. And either that type of thing did not make news at that time, or I just didn't see the stories. Can't remember which, but that is beside the point. I knew it was wrong. Still do.

Quote:
Yet another post from you, yet again not one ounce of empathy for the people that Bloomberg terrorised for a decade.

As I said: its almost as if black lives don't matter. The narrative is crystal clear.
I could get angry about this since, and correct me if I'm wrong, you are essentially calling me a racist on the same level as, oh, David Duke. But as you are just someone on the 'net, as am I, I'm not angry. Believe what you will about my empathy or lack thereof as you wish. I don't care.
  #175  
Old 02-12-2020, 06:46 PM
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...all of the candidates are smart cookies who get things done with generally positive policy positions. All of the candidates are solid candidates. If someone else becomes the nominee then black voters will likely give them a pass on all things they've done in the past..
You just said he'd be a terrible candidate. Now, they're all solid?
  #176  
Old 02-12-2020, 06:58 PM
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Then tell me how my assertion about the Hitler analogy was wrong.
...I already have.

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Forgive me as I really don't want to research Wakefield now, as that's really for another thread I think, so just a general comment about your earlier anti-vax analogy. Bloomberg, a long time advocate for gun control, looked at the science saying fewer guns means fewer deaths, and tried to get guns off the streets to save lives. Anti-vax people ignore the science that says vaccinations save lives, but act in a way that will result in more deaths. I don't think your analogy holds.
It isn't about the science. It about the motivation. It doesn't matter if anti-vaxxers ignore the science. Bloomberg ignored the science (despite your assertion that he didn't) . The analogy was about motivation and whether or not we should give them credit it their motivation is to save lives. You think Bloomberg deserves credit because he wanted to save lives. Shouldn't anti-vaxxers get credit because they want to save lives? Its simple yes or no question.

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I heartily disagree. Yes, I did live there and as I said I was against SaF then. Truly without trying to sound snarky, I did not do drive-alongs with the NYPD and see what they did. And either that type of thing did not make news at that time, or I just didn't see the stories. Can't remember which, but that is beside the point. I knew it was wrong. Still do.
Imagine thinking you have to do drive-alongs with the NYPD to know the basic facts surrounding stop and frisk. I live on the other side of the world and have never stepped foot in America and I know more than you. Just to be clear this isn't an indictment on you. Its simple privilege. This never affected you. You view it in the abstract. It was a bad thing: but you can't quite conceive just how bad it was.

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I could get angry about this since, and correct me if I'm wrong, you are essentially calling me a racist on the same level as, oh, David Duke.
If I had intended to call you a racist I would have called you a racist. That wan't my intent. I haven't essentially called you "David Duke." Not even fucking close.

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But as you are just someone on the 'net, as am I, I'm not angry. Believe what you will about my empathy or lack thereof as you wish. I don't care.
You've made it quite clear that you do not care. Imagine walking down the street and having to present your papers on demand. That is what stop and frisk was. Except you lived in New York during Bloomberg and you (apparently) never experienced it. I'd say "lucky you" but it was never about luck.
  #177  
Old 02-12-2020, 07:04 PM
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You just said he'd be a terrible candidate. Now, they're all solid?
..."solid" is a subjective descriptor that (in context of what I wrote) was talking about the other candidates. You consider Bloomberg solid. Do you not disagree that the other candidates are equally solid by your standard of 'solidity'?
  #178  
Old 02-12-2020, 07:07 PM
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..."solid" is a subjective descriptor that (in context of what I wrote) was talking about the other candidates. You consider Bloomberg solid. Do you not disagree that the other candidates are equally solid by your standard of 'solidity'?
I'm not going to dignify this tap dancing bullshit with a response. I didn't say jack about the other candidates and I'm not helping you change the subject.
  #179  
Old 02-12-2020, 07:21 PM
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I'm not going to dignify this tap dancing bullshit with a response. I didn't say jack about the other candidates and I'm not helping you change the subject.
...the subject is Bloomberg. You told me why you thought he was a good candidate. I asked why you thought he was a better candidate when the other candidates have equal claim to the metrics you chose to use.

I'm not the one tap dancing. I know perfectly well you didn't say jack about the other candidates: I bought up the other candidates when I directed the question "why Bloomberg is so much better than the other nominees that we should overlook what he did" with Stop and Frisk to you.
  #180  
Old 02-12-2020, 07:21 PM
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...I already have.
Saying "my analogy was too a good analogy" does not refute it. Hitler wanted to kill people. Bloomberg wanted to save people.

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Bloomberg ignored the science (despite your assertion that he didn't) .
You do this a lot. Take something I said, and pretend it means something else. I said Bloomberg looked at the science behind gun control, nothing more.

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Imagine thinking you have to do drive-alongs with the NYPD to know the basic facts surrounding stop and frisk. I live on the other side of the world and have never stepped foot in America and I know more than you. Just to be clear this isn't an indictment on you. Its simple privilege. This never affected you. You view it in the abstract. It was a bad thing: but you can't quite conceive just how bad it was.
I know the basic facts. Stop people of color indiscriminately and frisk them. Regarding "indictment", etc, this nothing to do with what we started talking about, so, I don't have the time nor inclination to address it.

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If I had intended to call you a racist I would have called you a racist. That wan't my intent. I haven't essentially called you "David Duke." Not even fucking close.
I accept this completely, that's why I said correct me if I'm wrong. But you mention me in one sentence implying I have no empathy for certain people, and then bring up black lives matter. I don't think it's a stretch to assume you were calling me a racist. But fine, we are cool regarding this.

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You've made it quite clear that you do not care.
Once again you pretend something I said means something else.* In the context of me thinking you were calling me a racist, I said I don't care about your opinion on the matter.

*Please stop doing this.
  #181  
Old 02-12-2020, 07:25 PM
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No baiting.
...LOL.

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You just seem to be on the hairy edge of making some pretty serious implications about the character of me and, it seems, anyone else who doesn't toe your line on Bloomberg.
This is Great Debates and I'm debating. I've clarified my position. I have no thoughts at all about your character. I'm debating the positions you hold. Why do you support a candidate for President who defended a racist unconstitutional policy that terrorised hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers over the course of a decade?
  #182  
Old 02-12-2020, 07:33 PM
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Saying "my analogy was too a good analogy" does not refute it. Hitler wanted to kill people. Bloomberg wanted to save people.
...the analogy stands because we are talking about motivations. "Hitler wanted to kill people" is as un-nuanced as the position "Bloomberg wanted to save people." Hitler wanted to save people too. Just not every person.

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You do this a lot. Take something I said, and pretend it means something else. I said Bloomberg looked at the science behind gun control, nothing more.
You do this a lot. You post something completely irrelevant like "Bloomberg looked at the science behind gun control" and you expect me to take that seriously. But I can't and I won't. Bloomberg ignored the actual science. End of story. The science of "gun control" has nothing to do with the science of "stop and frisk."

Quote:
I know the basic facts. Stop people of color indiscriminately and frisk them. Regarding "indictment", etc, this nothing to do with what we started talking about, so, I don't have the time nor inclination to address it.
Its a shame that the people of New York barely know anything about such a devastating period of their history.

Quote:
Once again you pretend something I said means something else.* In the context of me thinking you were calling me a racist, I said I don't care about your opinion on the matter.

*Please stop doing this.
I never called you a racist. I hope that clears things up.
  #183  
Old 02-12-2020, 08:02 PM
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...the analogy stands because we are talking about motivations. "Hitler wanted to kill people" is as un-nuanced as the position "Bloomberg wanted to save people." Hitler wanted to save people too. Just not every person.
You call those two things "un-nuanced." I say they are are a shorthand way of getting to the heart of the matter of what each intended. One had good intentions, the other did not. No matter how you try, you can't twist what Hitler did to compare it with Bloomberg.

Quote:
You do this a lot. You post something completely irrelevant like "Bloomberg looked at the science behind gun control" and you expect me to take that seriously. But I can't and I won't. Bloomberg ignored the actual science. End of story. The science of "gun control" has nothing to do with the science of "stop and frisk."
Are you going retract what you erroneously said about my post or not? We both agree that the way Bloomberg went about this was wrong. Stop and Frisk was wrong. You must know (don't you?) that when I'm talking about the science, it's about how you can reduce deaths from gun violence, not about Stop and Frisk per se.

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I never called you a racist. I hope that clears things up.
You don't have to clear anything up. I thought we were cool on this.
  #184  
Old 02-12-2020, 08:05 PM
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What does he have that the others don't?

Obviously first is his nutso funding and organization abilities/apparatus. His billions were built on information analysis. If he wanted, he could probably have Facebook data focused troll farms that made Russia look silly.

He has a solid history of putting his money where his mouth is on some solid Democratic planks like gun control and climate change.

I rank running NYC at the governor level, so he has best executive experience. I know the Pres can't run the country like a CEO but I wouldn't be surprised if he makes a point of some needed cleaning up bad parts of the civil service

Last edited by CarnalK; 02-12-2020 at 08:05 PM.
  #185  
Old 02-12-2020, 08:57 PM
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Stop and Frisk had racist impacts, as have had and do have many policies that exist currently. Bloomberg owns up to that and it is very important that he get beat up on it now and not wait until it is weaponized in a general.

Can he make the case to Black voters that he made a mistake, owns it, is sorry for it, and is committed to issues that matter to Black voters, including gun violence reduction and to visions of reducing racial wealth inequity as expressed in his philanthropic actions since and in his current proposed plan?

If I had to bet I'd bet that it won't hurt him much. He had decent approval ratings among Black New Yorkers even at the height of Stop and Frisk (albeit lower than among white voters), he's apologized since, and he's done things since that have helped Black communities in many ways ... which is why just today he's picked up three more endorsements - from members of the Black caucus. His track record on trying to reduce gun violence, taking it as a serious problem, plays well to Black registered voters who see gun violence as a more serious problem than even racial prejudice in the justice system and police misconduct.This from 2016, height of BLM awareness:
Quote:
Black voters think most Americans simply do not care about urban gun violence, according to a new phone survey by a prominent Democratic polling firm. But for them, it’s a crucial issue – and a more serious one than police misconduct.

In a February poll, 80% of the registered black voters surveyed described gun violence in communities of color as an “extremely serious” problem, compared with only 50% who called police misconduct an “extremely serious” problem, and 69% who called the incarceration rate an “extremely serious” problem.
Taking on gun violence in as a long term project of great importance, even including having once done so in a way that had racist impacts and failed to do much good, will, I think, sell well among large swaths of Black voters.

But we'll see and better to see now than in the general!
  #186  
Old 02-13-2020, 09:06 AM
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his tweet to Trump :

we know many of the same people in NY. Behind your back they laugh at you & call you a carnival barking clown.
They know you inherited a fortune & squandered it with stupid deals and incompetence.

I have the record & the resources to defeat you. And I will.
  #187  
Old 02-13-2020, 09:22 AM
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also former NC Dem governor Bev Perdue will be there with him today in Raleigh. Assume she is endorsing him. She only served one term and did not run for a 2nd term because it was doubtful she would win her 2nd race.
  #188  
Old 02-13-2020, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
his tweet to Trump :

we know many of the same people in NY. Behind your back they laugh at you & call you a carnival barking clown.
They know you inherited a fortune & squandered it with stupid deals and incompetence.

I have the record & the resources to defeat you. And I will.
Oh snap!

It’s awesome that he’s trolling Trump online and it’s awesome that he’s giving money to Democrats. What I still don’t quite get is why he has to run for President in order to do these things.
__________________
Please...we prefer the term "Bernard Brother".
  #189  
Old 02-13-2020, 09:41 AM
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The argument goes because everyone else running would be the trolled.

He's given money to Democrats (and an occasional Republican) and committed to using his money to defeat Trump in any case (although it would be awkward for Sanders to be the beneficiary of his largesse given how he feels about PACs of billionaires).

Trolling Trump works much better as the candidate.
  #190  
Old 02-13-2020, 10:27 AM
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I said he deserved credit for trying to save lives, not for the willful terrorizing of anyone.
If the Tsar only knew what his Cossacks were doing in his name...
  #191  
Old 02-13-2020, 12:01 PM
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Bloomberg: 2008 Financial Crisis Caused by Banks Not Being Allowed to be Racist.
  #192  
Old 02-13-2020, 01:09 PM
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If I had to bet I'd bet that it won't hurt him much. He had decent approval ratings among Black New Yorkers even at the height of Stop and Frisk (albeit lower than among white voters), he's apologized since, and he's done things since that have helped Black communities in many ways ... which is why just today he's picked up three more endorsements - from members of the Black caucus.
I wouldn't bet either way, but fair enough. It would be interesting to see some polling on how much it would affect the black vote in New York City alone versus that in, say, South Carolina. It goes without saying that everyone, no matter where they live, have a right to be outraged by Bloomberg's policy, but I would imagine that outrage would be a bit more visceral in the place where the stop and frisk policy was carried out. All of this is to say, that should Bloomberg somehow get the nomination in the end, in order to win, he would have to flip Florida and take back one of Wisconsin, Michigan, or Pennsylvania. Or not flip Florida, and win the rest. Without looking up state demographics, the non-white population of those states is relatively small (except Florida), and given that blacks in those states (as well as for the rest of the nation, for that matter) overwhelmingly vote Democratic, I'd guess it would take a massive defection based on stop and frisk to do real damage to Bloomberg's chances in the general.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 02-13-2020 at 01:11 PM.
  #193  
Old 02-13-2020, 01:09 PM
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Saw him today , he looks much younger in person. Talked about local stuff then standard stump type speech. May vote for him but I don't need to decide before March 3rd.
  #194  
Old 02-13-2020, 02:04 PM
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Ultimately, Bloomberg is banking on a brokered convention. He has spread his money out enough that he has a ton of super-delegate votes in his pocket. If no one gets a majority of the bound delegates during the primary, it's going to be a brokered convention. Anything can happen. Clinton only won 1 out of his first 10 primaries so Biden still has a shot at it but if it comes down to a brokered convention, Bloomberg has 60 billion dollars and that can be very convincing to a political party.

Total dollars spent during the 2016 election by the winning candidate 646 million. That's about 1% of what Michael Bloomberg has.

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 02-13-2020 at 02:06 PM.
  #195  
Old 02-13-2020, 02:13 PM
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Also he was on time today which is not common for presidential candidates . I saw the Secret Service there but maybe it was his own security guys.
  #196  
Old 02-13-2020, 02:26 PM
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In one ad he brags how he shut down some coal burning power plants. Ok, that sounds nice, but what did he replace them with? Electricity has to come from somewhere.
He replaced them with a power plant that burns the aborted fetal remains from all over the Northeast US. Then he uses the power to enable black Muslims to give drugs to kids in daycare centers, so that they'll all turn in to ANTIFA zombies who can't be killed. Then the war on conservatives, white people and Jesus REALLY starts!
  #197  
Old 02-13-2020, 03:02 PM
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All racism aside, any woman (or ally) who'd vote for this d-bag seriously needs to have their V-card revoked. He's one sick puppy.
  #198  
Old 02-13-2020, 03:09 PM
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It's been pointed out to me elsewhere that people see "V-card" and think "virginity" (which is a meaningless social construct with no actual validity) rather than "vagina," which demonstrably do exist and are real things in the world. Plz to read it in intended manner, thx.
  #199  
Old 02-13-2020, 03:34 PM
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I'm pretty sure that you re-wrote that headline and I'm also pretty sure that Mr. Bloomberg didn't say or even imply what you said he said and/or implied.

Who's side are you on?
  #200  
Old 02-13-2020, 03:41 PM
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I'm pretty sure that you re-wrote that headline and I'm also pretty sure that Mr. Bloomberg didn't say or even imply what you said he said and/or implied.

Who's side are you on?
The lede:
Quote:
At the height of the 2008 economic collapse, then-New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said the elimination of a discriminatory housing practice known as “redlining” was responsible for instigating the meltdown.
I'm not sure what daylight you see between AP's description of what Bloomberg said, and Thing Fish's description.

Like I said, I'm ready to dance with the devil if that's what it takes to act meaningfully against global warming while there's still time. But I'm not gonna bullshit anyone into thinking he's not the devil.

Last edited by RTFirefly; 02-13-2020 at 03:42 PM.
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