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  #51  
Old 02-15-2020, 05:54 PM
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Do you know Sanders polls way better than anyone else in a match-up against Trump?
No I do not know that. Because it is not true. Latest (Morning Consult) has Bloomberg on top with +5 and Sanders at +2. Not that it means too much yet.

I am hoping that Klobuchar brings on some energy and ability to improvise next debate.
  #52  
Old 02-15-2020, 07:22 PM
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Is that why a lot of South Carolina Republicans are going to be voting for Bernie in the primary? If we put this guy on top of the ticket, we not only don't get the Senate, we lose the House too.
Just to point out the stakes here, if the Democratic ticket manages to win in November without a Senate majority (or Senate 50-50), they will be unable to fill any Supreme Court vacancy. Republicans reading this probably are thinking that all the Democrats would have to do is nominate a true moderate. But, aside from Merrick Garland being one, just the fact that a Democratic president nominated someone will convince Republicans to refuse to bring up the nomination, or vote against.

I like Amy. So I'd like to now say that Klobuchar has the political skills to walk us back from the brink of such a constitutional crisis. But I can't. The age of miracles is past.

Last edited by PhillyGuy; 02-15-2020 at 07:26 PM.
  #53  
Old 02-15-2020, 08:01 PM
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Is that why a lot of South Carolina Republicans are going to be voting for Bernie in the primary? If we put this guy on top of the ticket, we not only don't get the Senate, we lose the House too.
I don't know if conventional wisdom applies anymore. I used to believe that about Trump, that he was so radical that the GOP would lose the presidency and the senate.

instead they kept the senate and won the presidency.
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  #54  
Old 02-15-2020, 08:33 PM
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SC is one state:

- General Election: Trump vs. Sanders

I have no idea where you are getting losing the senate (which dems do not have now and are very unlikely to get in 2020) and also losing the House (after AOC rocked the political landscape by beating one of the most powerful congressman).
General election polls are less than useless today, even if they showed Pete with a landslide.

AOC has a very big mouth but sheís powerless. I think I had more political power as president of my 3rd grade class.
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  #55  
Old 02-15-2020, 08:46 PM
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. . . Trump, that he was so radical that the GOP would lose the presidency and the senate.
Trump is radical when it comes to incivility. But his public political positions are, with some exceptions, not that far right. See:

Trump Isn’t a Moderate, But He Plays One on TV

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  #56  
Old 02-17-2020, 07:41 AM
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Started liking Amy a bit more, seems more reasonable on some of the issues of what I've researched on her so far, although, was surprised to hear about her votes on Trump's judges. I hope with her having more money in her campaign now since last debate, she'll continue to rise.
  #57  
Old 02-17-2020, 08:44 AM
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She was better last night than the previous appearance. She is certainly less interesting than most. For me, that's a plus. I long for an uninteresting president. Just go to work, do your job, and stay off twitter. I don't need anything but a return to normalcy, decency, and honesty. She has all that. Not my first pick currently, but I'd feel fine if she wins it all. (I do think she'd beat Trump in the industrial mid-west)
Watched her on Bill Maher, then an interview on CNN or something.

She's meh. Neither offensive nor inspiring. As a bureaucrat, Secretary of Commerce or HUD, she'd be very competent. As a POTUS, she'd be ineffective, IMO.

Much as I would love to see a return to normalcy, that bus has left the depot. Unless and until the senate is out of GOP control, the Democrats will be frustrated and denied meaningful success at every key juncture that requires congressional support. Mitch McConnell will continue to be the thorn in the side of the next Dem administration. I don't see Amy as having the political skills or clout to affect change in that respect.
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  #58  
Old 02-17-2020, 09:22 AM
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I have no idea where you are getting losing the senate (which dems do not have now and are very unlikely to get in 2020) and also losing the House (after AOC rocked the political landscape by beating one of the most powerful congressman).
Last I checked, the Ds are almost as likely to lose the House as to win the Senate.

And I don't know if AOC's election points to what you think. She won in a District that was certain to elect a D. Have any hard-left Ds won in Districts where the Rs are competitive?

I worry that it's more likely that the emergence of Congresswomen like AOC may lead "independents" to vote for Rs as backlash.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(Sadly I just watched the Telemundo interview. I didn't care about forgetting President's name, but I didn't see a candidate with charisma, or inspiring enthusiasm. I'm running out of choices. Silly as it seems, I wonder if some stunt of desperation ó e.g. Draft Michelle Obama ó might now be our best chance.)
  #59  
Old 02-17-2020, 09:48 AM
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Last I checked, the Ds are almost as likely to lose the House as to win the Senate.

And I don't know if AOC's election points to what you think. She won in a District that was certain to elect a D. Have any hard-left Ds won in Districts where the Rs are competitive?
[/B] — might now be our best chance.)
While I didn’t live in AOC’s district, I lived close to the edge of it. A lot of my friends were in her district and the area where I did my shopping, workouts and dining out was in her district. So I’m familiar with her campaign as well as they other campaigns in that district to elect progressives to local offices.

It worked because they campaigned aggressively in a traditionally low turnout election and blind-sided their opponent. It’s one of those dark blue districts where the primary IS the deciding election - while there was a Republican opposite her on the November ballot, he didn’t even file the papers he needed to fundraise. Republicans literally weren't going to waste a dime on that race.

But she’s going to have trouble in a high turnout election. And there is substantial dislike of her among moderate Democrats in her district - a lot of residents ( including myself) that owned property and businesses in the area were really pissed off at the impression that the local progressives killed the Amazon deal and there is a lot of organized opposition.

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  #60  
Old 02-17-2020, 12:35 PM
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While I didnít live in AOCís district, I lived close to the edge of it. A lot of my friends were in her district and the area where I did my shopping, workouts and dining out was in her district. So Iím familiar with her campaign as well as they other campaigns in that district to elect progressives to local offices.

It worked because they campaigned aggressively in a traditionally low turnout election and blind-sided their opponent. Itís one of those dark blue districts where the primary IS the deciding election - while there was a Republican opposite her on the November ballot, he didnít even file the papers he needed to fundraise. Republicans literally weren't going to waste a dime on that race.

But sheís going to have trouble in a high turnout election. And there is substantial dislike of her among moderate Democrats in her district - a lot of residents ( including myself) that owned property and businesses in the area were really pissed off at the impression that the local progressives killed the Amazon deal and there is a lot of organized opposition.
AOC got damn lucky that Abolish ICE was exactly the right issue when the children in cages stories and photos started going viral. I think it sucks that the squad dominated the 2018 election news rather than all the moderate Democrats who actually flipped the House. I do think she could be vulnerable as it seems sheís become far more interested in being a national figure than representing her district. Sheíd better have a damn good staff to kiss and coddle her constituents, I donít think they voted for her only to see her more interested in Bernie Sanders and running her mouth on national TV than in representing her district.

Klobuchar not knowing the Mexican President is a big deal to me. Itís an interview with Spanish media in the Southwest and the trade deal just passed. Trade deals have been kinda a big thing in Democratic politics especially with unions. No one was asking her gotcha questions about Brexit or a solution to the Israeli/Palestinian question or the president of Poland
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  #61  
Old 02-17-2020, 12:51 PM
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Klobuchar not knowing the Mexican President is a big deal to me. Itís an interview with Spanish media in the Southwest and the trade deal just passed. Trade deals have been kinda a big thing in Democratic politics especially with unions. No one was asking her gotcha questions about Brexit or a solution to the Israeli/Palestinian question or the president of Poland
That's my impression of Klobuchar as well. What does she come across as knowing well other than being a proud resident of "fly over" America? And she has stop using the "chips in the failed Trump casino" line unless she can say it without stumbling on the words.

If you're going to pick a smart moderate, why would you go with Klobuchar over Bootegieg?
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  #62  
Old 02-17-2020, 01:29 PM
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I can understand the Klobuchar appeal. She has won statewide by big margins which is a lot more than Pete can say. She at least seems more conventionally qualified than Pete though after her Mexican president snafu you have to wonder whether that is actually true in reality. And finally you have to wonder whether America is quite ready to elect an openly gay candidate. Attitudes have changed fast but there are many old people who still have anti-gay prejudices.

Klobuchar is probably doomed anyway. She has had a surprising surge but she needs an even bigger surge very soon to survive and it looks unlikely. Pete himself is on shaky ground but he has that mysterious star quality and more of a shot of pulling off the unexpected if the Bloomberg surge abates and Biden remains weak.

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  #63  
Old 02-18-2020, 09:12 PM
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5 minutes into every question and you've still not made your point Amy. Make your point, ffs.
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  #64  
Old 02-18-2020, 09:15 PM
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I can understand the Klobuchar appeal. She has won statewide by big margins which is a lot more than Pete can say. She at least seems more conventionally qualified than Pete though after her Mexican president snafu you have to wonder whether that is actually true in reality. And finally you have to wonder whether America is quite ready to elect an openly gay candidate. Attitudes have changed fast but there are many old people who still have anti-gay prejudices.

Klobuchar is probably doomed anyway. She has had a surprising surge but she needs an even bigger surge very soon to survive and it looks unlikely. Pete himself is on shaky ground but he has that mysterious star quality and more of a shot of pulling off the unexpected if the Bloomberg surge abates and Biden remains weak.
She may be succeeding by being the "Not" candidate.

Not a socialist,
Not gay,
Not a billionaire,
Not septuagenarian
Not excessively woke
  #65  
Old 02-18-2020, 09:19 PM
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Not well spoken.
Not inspiring.
Not focused.
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  #66  
Old 02-18-2020, 09:28 PM
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I really appreciate how much contempt Amy has for Trump. But it's been 30 minutes and I still don't know anything about her policies except that she can relate to people who struggle economically. She hasn't said how she'll help them though. Just that she understand and she'll help if elected.
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  #67  
Old 02-18-2020, 09:33 PM
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Enough with the snow story. Your tweet about Trump's hair from 4 months ago wasn't as clever as you insist, Amy.
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  #68  
Old 02-18-2020, 11:03 PM
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I'm coming around to her by process of elimination. Biden looks like he needs his embalming fluid topped off, Bloomberg may have enough skeletons in his closet to open his own anatomy class, Sanders is going to be bludgeoned with hammers and sickles if he gets the nomination, Warren seems to be fading, and I'm not sure if the US is ready to vote for a gay man with little experience. Amy is like a bowl of vanilla ice cream- pleasantly bland but not exciting. I'm starting to think she's exactly what we need after four years of tweetosaurus.
BobLibDem's entire post makes much sense. But ...
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I've seen her on his show recently and wasn't overwhelmed. She strikes me as the least interesting candidate in the entire Dem field. An absolute sleeping pill. Even that loon Marianne was more interesting. I'll have another look and try to keep an open mind.
I'm afraid QuickSilver is correct. The voters don't want competence; they want excitement. Obama was exciting! Trump is exciting!

Al Gore was a man of courage, competence, compassion and vision (and was easy to ridicule), but only got 51% of the vote ó not enough with GOP cheating. Why did he lose? He wasn't exciting.

John Kerry? Same thing. Unexciting. Is it too late to get Serena Williams or Jake Gyllenhaal to run? (Or just call Clowns'R'Us in the yellow pages. American voters are remarkably stupid.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Do you know Sanders polls way better than anyone else in a match-up against Trump?
Uhhh. Wake up and smell the coffee, Mr. Whack-a-Mole. Rightly or wrongly, Putin, the Koch Brothers and Trump's band of crooks and traitors all think Sanders will be easy to beat in November. They want him to be the nominee. Don't be surprised if much of the pro-Sanders buzz on social media was planted by trolls working for the Putin-GOP axis.

After he becomes the nominee, expect that conversation will focus on his communist ties. (The skankier blogs will also mention that he's a Jesus killer.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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One of my concerns with a Klobuchar presidency is constant staff turnoveróa new Chief of Staff every six weeks, a new National Security Advisor every few months, etc.
You think hiring 4-star Generals or top Professors for the highest positions in the land is the same as staffing a Senator's office with interns. Got it.
  #69  
Old 02-19-2020, 03:12 AM
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She may be succeeding by being the "Not" candidate.

Not a socialist,
Not gay,
Not a billionaire,
Not septuagenarian
Not excessively woke

Exactly right. There were other, better candidates of this sort: Bullock and Booker come to mind. But they are gone and she's the only one left--which is good enough for me (especially with how dominant she has been in the exact kinds of places we need to win back).

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I have no idea where you are getting losing the senate (which dems do not have now and are very unlikely to get in 2020) and also losing the House (after AOC rocked the political landscape by beating one of the most powerful congressman).
Setting the record straight on AOC:

--In the primary, she got <17,000 votes in a low-turnout situation, thanks to taking the Democratic incumbent by surprise.

--In the general, the Republican she beat was a college professor who doesn't even have a Wikipedia page. It's an overwhelmingly blue district that a potted plant with (D) next to its name could win.

Progressive PACs Bernie and AOC support backed a bunch of progressive House candidates in 2018. Not one of them defeated a Republican incumbent. Not ONE. In many cases, the candidates for targeted seats they endorsed, gave money to, and stumped for failed to win their primaries. When they did win primaries, they ALL lost in the general election. Every single one. And those were likely missed opportunities to gain more seats!

Pelosi got the gavel last year ENTIRELY from wins by moderate, establishment Democratic challengers. That the media has not made a point of regularly reminding voters of this is Exhibit A to prove that they in fact are not in the back pocket of the Democratic establishment!
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Old 02-19-2020, 06:04 AM
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Uhhh. Wake up and smell the coffee, Mr. Whack-a-Mole. Rightly or wrongly, Putin, the Koch Brothers and Trump's band of crooks and traitors all think Sanders will be easy to beat in November. They want him to be the nominee. Don't be surprised if much of the pro-Sanders buzz on social media was planted by trolls working for the Putin-GOP axis.
.
People keep saying this. What do you think they know that we don't? Why am I caring who Trump thinks he can beat?
  #71  
Old 02-19-2020, 08:06 AM
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I'm afraid QuickSilver is correct. The voters don't want competence; they want excitement.
I'm starting to think Klobuchar is neither. She comes across as officious, rather than particularly competent.
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  #72  
Old 02-20-2020, 11:21 AM
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So what did people think of the Pete-Amy exchange in the debate? Personally I thought he won handily. He wasn't condescending or bullying or "mansplaining", he made valid arguments while staying ice-cool while she was clearly flustered. However I see a lot of divergent opinion about this on Twitter and some people ,including conservatives like Dan McLaughlin, are sympathetic to Klobuchar. It's a fascinating episode.

Last edited by Lantern; 02-20-2020 at 11:26 AM.
  #73  
Old 02-20-2020, 11:27 AM
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I actually think Klobuchar came off better in the exchange. Everytime Buttigieg hammered her, she hit back with his lack of experience which I really think hurts Buttigieg. Though really it probably dinged both in the end while Sanders, Biden, and Warren came off relatively unscathed.

I definitely could see where women thought he was bullying and mansplaining - after one of those tussles, Warren felt like she had to come to Klobuchar's defense because it felt like an unfair attack.

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  #74  
Old 02-20-2020, 11:30 AM
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So what did people think of the Pete-Amy exchange in the debate? Personally I thought he won handily. He wasn't condescending or bullying or "mansplaining", he made valid arguments while staying ice-cool while she was clearly flustered. However I see a lot of divergent opinion about this on Twitter and some people ,including conservatives like Dan McLaughlin, are sympathetic to Klobuchar. It's a fascinating episode.
I can't find a YouTube with the complete debate, so just watch "highlights." But I did see a Pete-Amy exchange.

I thought Pete "won" that exchange, if he did, simply because he was willing to interrupt her repeatedly and his voice ó whether because louder, or because lower-pitched ó overwhelmed her voice.
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Old 02-20-2020, 11:42 AM
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I actually think Klobuchar came off better in the exchange. Everytime Buttigieg hammered her, she hit back with his lack of experience which I really think hurts Buttigieg.
Buttigieg maintained his composure while Amy was visibly shaken and upset. So I'm not sure how she could be seen as having won the exchange.

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I definitely could see where women thought he was bullying and mansplaining - after one of those tussles, Warren felt like she had to come to Klobuchar's defense because it felt like an unfair attack.
The question about her not knowing the name of the Mexican president came from the Telemundo reporter, not Buttigieg. So how was this his fault? I mean, good on Warren for pointing out how stupid the question was and coming to Klobuchar's defense. I think Pete would have been far better served by pointing that out first. However, Klobuchar looked weaker for having to have somebody else come to her defense and not being ready to counter that in an effective manner.
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  #76  
Old 02-20-2020, 11:58 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uPiJowtUl4

Here is the exchange. On watching it again, I think it's actually a masterclass in calmly dismantling a debate opponent although I am bit baffled Pete doesn't appear to have shaved.
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:49 PM
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Buttigieg maintained his composure while Amy was visibly shaken and upset. So I'm not sure how she could be seen as having won the exchange.
Thatís because Buttigieg is a bot, somebody needs to open him up, see if there are any wires; Amy more human. Seen the complete exchanges on You Tube, thought she did well. Does Pete usually have to interrupt so much?
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:52 PM
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Buttigieg maintained his composure while Amy was visibly shaken and upset. So I'm not sure how she could be seen as having won the exchange.
Because she made far better points? Hammering her on forgetting a name of the Mexican President while she pointed out that he got destroyed while running for statewide office.

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The question about her not knowing the name of the Mexican president came from the Telemundo reporter, not Buttigieg. So how was this his fault? I mean, good on Warren for pointing out how stupid the question was and coming to Klobuchar's defense. I think Pete would have been far better served by pointing that out first. However, Klobuchar looked weaker for having to have somebody else come to her defense and not being ready to counter that in an effective manner.
Uh... Buttigieg was the one hammering Klobuchar for not knowing the Mexican President's name. Why would he point out how dumb that question was when he was using it for the basis of the attack? Warren wasn't calling out Telemundo; she was calling out Buttigieg!
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:06 PM
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Thatís because Buttigieg is a bot, somebody needs to open him up, see if there are any wires; Amy more human. Seen the complete exchanges on You Tube, thought she did well. Does Pete usually have to interrupt so much?
"Bot" wouldn't be the first word that popped into my head when watching Buttigieg perform, but we're not in the Pit so I'll go with "bot."

Has the Bot decided he's not going to win, so is fighting with last-place Klobuchar in an effort to save some face by finishing 5th instead of 6th?
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:17 PM
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Uh... Buttigieg was the one hammering Klobuchar for not knowing the Mexican President's name. Why would he point out how dumb that question was when he was using it for the basis of the attack? Warren wasn't calling out Telemundo; she was calling out Buttigieg!
Just watched the clip. I stand corrected.
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:29 PM
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Thatís because Buttigieg is a bot, somebody needs to open him up, see if there are any wires; Amy more human. Seen the complete exchanges on You Tube, thought she did well. Does Pete usually have to interrupt so much?
Amy was rattled and babbling. That's not the fault of Pete's relative composure under pressure. If she can't hold her own in a debate, she's not going to inspire people. She's probably a competent bureaucrat, but a lousy leader.
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Old 02-20-2020, 02:26 PM
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Agree with "rattled and babbling". I thought she was just very clearly out of her depth compared to the other four candidates on the stage. I'm just not getting how some people are perceiving her as being a strong candidate.

And really, no matter what Elizabeth Warren says, the name of the President of Mexico isn't some obscure detail that could plausibly slip the mind of anyone who's well qualified to be President.
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Old 02-20-2020, 02:29 PM
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nm, double post. The hamsters are drunk.

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  #84  
Old 02-20-2020, 02:50 PM
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I thought it was a completely legitimate question from the Telemundo interviewer. He didn't ask about the name initially; he just asked if she knew anything about the Mexican president's policies. She clearly didn't and he then asked her his name. I don't know if Klobuchar is now claiming that she knew the President's name but it had just slipped her mind but it is not a plausible interpretation of the video. And it is a big deal IMO, you cannot claim to have an informed opinion about Mexico if you don't know anything about its president and managing the US-Mexico relationship is an important part of the US President's job. The incident surprised me because I had thought that Klobuchar possessed a basic level of competence. After watching that interview and now this debate I have sharply downgraded my opinion of her and I don't think she is up to the task of running for President.
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Old 02-20-2020, 03:16 PM
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I actually think Klobuchar came off better in the exchange. Everytime Buttigieg hammered her, she hit back with his lack of experience which I really think hurts Buttigieg. Though really it probably dinged both in the end while Sanders, Biden, and Warren came off relatively unscathed.

I think that Amy having the "experience" and STILL not knowing what the hell is going on in Mexico was exactly the point. Experience in Washington is pretty useless if you having gained anything from it.

She also seemed very flustered, and certainly not presidential. "I wish were were all perfect like you, Pete" and "Are you calling me dumb" sounded like middle school retort. Very bad.
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Old 02-20-2020, 03:18 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uPiJowtUl4

Here is the exchange. On watching it again, I think it's actually a masterclass in calmly dismantling a debate opponent although I am bit baffled Pete doesn't appear to have shaved.
It's funny, the whole time I was watching that debate, I was thinking to myself: "Pete seems like he looks a little older, a little tougher, a little less baby-faced than he did before; his chin even looks stronger. But I can't really put my finger on why."

Ridiculous how I didn't notice that it was the slight amount of stubble that did it. But you know something - it made him look better. If he's smart, he'll keep that look.
  #87  
Old 02-20-2020, 03:26 PM
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Interesting. I hadn't thought that it might be deliberate but it does make a certain amount of sense.
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Old 02-21-2020, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Socsback View Post
I think that Amy having the "experience" and STILL not knowing what the hell is going on in Mexico was exactly the point. Experience in Washington is pretty useless if you having gained anything from it.

She also seemed very flustered, and certainly not presidential. "I wish were were all perfect like you, Pete" and "Are you calling me dumb" sounded like middle school retort. Very bad.
This. I'm currently backing Amy, but these made me wonder whether someone else is better able to beat trump. I found it all quite embarrassing.

I have to admit, I don't know the president of Mexico, and I also have trouble dredging up names I do know. But there are a lot of reasons I'm not a politician, and I've never been responsible for the US relationship with Mexico.

Pete didn't look great, either. He looked like a bit of a bully. So I think they both lost that round. But any lost worse.
  #89  
Old 02-21-2020, 08:45 AM
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Your Reagan-era flashback of the day: Klobuchar demanded that USDA classify tomato sauce on pizza as a vegetable.
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Old 02-22-2020, 12:04 AM
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I am bit baffled Pete doesn't appear to have shaved.

As others have pointed out, he is trying to demonstrate that he has, despite other appearances, actually passed through puberty.
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  #91  
Old 03-02-2020, 03:08 PM
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Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar ended her Democratic presidential campaign on Monday and plans to endorse rival Joe Biden in an effort to unify moderate voters behind the former vice president's White House bid.

She is flying to Dallas and plans to join Biden at his rally Monday night, according to her campaign.

Klobuchar was the second presidential candidate to exit the race in less than 24 hours, following Pete Buttigieg’s departure late Sunday. Their decisions reflect an urgent push among moderates to consolidate behind Biden as a counter to progressive rival Bernie Sanders.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elect...en/ar-BB10DG6c
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Old 03-02-2020, 06:55 PM
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Good combo of thread name and author.
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Old 03-02-2020, 06:58 PM
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As one of her constituents, I'm very happy to see her help rally the establishment before it's too late.
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