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  #151  
Old 03-11-2020, 09:54 AM
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Tired: Socializing Profits

Wired: Socializing Losses

The stock market experts which worried about Bernie Sanders' 'socialism' are now begging for socialism in the form of corporate rescue packages.
  #152  
Old 03-11-2020, 10:29 AM
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I support bailouts for airlines and cruiselines for much the same reason that I support mandatory sick leave for workers: it removes the incentive to be stupid.

Airlines and cruiselines should receive aid, contingent on their offering generous refund policies until the pandemic has subsided. Otherwise, they'll almost certainly be assholes about refunds, which will pressure people into using the trips they've already paid for, which will spread the disease further.

I'm not normally a fan of funneling government money to big companies, but I'm a pragmatist, not an idealist. In cases like this, we do what we need to do, even if it means rewarding people who don't need a reward.
  #153  
Old 03-11-2020, 12:29 PM
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Guys, apparently all the bailouts floated by the Trump Administration, including

... Cruise ships
... Hotels
... Airlines
... Fracking companies
... The Oil Industry
... the shipping industry

has raised the DJIA by 1,100+ points.

Again: Americas economic system is socialism for the wealthy and connected, capitalism for everyone else.

You may not get a check, but your employer will get a payroll tax deduction which should... what was the term... trickle down to you.

(Please note that Trumps remarks today were all about the economic impact, and nary a word about the human impact. This, D'anconia, is why him... and his ideology... are monstrous.)
Darn.

Down 1,145 as I type this. Looks like the Dow is trickling down on the Fed and the Trump Administration.
  #154  
Old 03-11-2020, 03:02 PM
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It's all happening so fast, and swinging so wildly from one day to the next, that it's really hard to assess and forecast what the economic damage will be.

Meanwhile, we're just now getting around to testing people. South Korea tests more people in a single day than we have during the entire epidemic. Countries like South Korea, Germany, and others can test people in their cars; in the US, by contrast, people have waited for the tests, they've gone to be tested only told they don't fit the official criteria for testing eligibility, and worst of all many healthcare workers are dealing with potentially ill patients without wearing any protection or having any protocols on how to manage potential cases - there is no uniform protocol on how to deal with COVID-19! I cannot emphasize just how jaw-droppingly shocking and dangerous this situation is about to become. - because when the healthcare workers themselves get taken down with this illness, the healthcare system will become overwhelmed.

And yet, just look at the sports pages tonight, tomorrow night, and the next several weeks and life is going to continue as planned with tens of thousands of people sitting right next to each other, oblivious to whether the person next to them is sneezing or coughing or picking his nose. And when the game is over many will ride home in Ubers or the local transit system. And they'll presumably go back to work the next day.

If you think the markets are down now, wait until cases spike in Washington, DC, New York City, Chicago, and LA - that's when the fun really begins. I don't think our healthcare system is prepared for what's about to happen, and I don't think our economic policymakers are either. We're in for a rough ride, folks.
  #155  
Old 03-11-2020, 03:16 PM
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As I noted in another thread:

"If the US markets are in free-fall now, bond and credit markets tightening up, while 99% of Americans still go about their normal lives... when this sentiment changes, holy hell will be wreaked on these same markets, making the bailouts promised yesterday appear as band aids."

HOWEVER....

Trump's signature accomplishment... not fucking up the Obama rally... is officially over. Today, 3-11-2020, marks the beginnings of the official TrumpSlump with the DJIA closing down 20.3% since February putting it officially in bear market territory.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...l-coronavirus/

Quote:
Wall Street went into a deep slump Wednesday, falling so far and so fast that the Dow Jones industrial average officially tipped into a bear market, ending a record 11-year stock rally

The bear market reflects a 20 percent fall from record highs, which the Dow hit less than a month ago, and came after the coronavirus officially became a pandemic.
RIP Obama's Bull Market: 3-09-2009 - 3-11-2020.

Official cause of death: Republicans and their voters. (See post 135.)

Last edited by JohnT; 03-11-2020 at 03:17 PM.
  #156  
Old 03-11-2020, 05:03 PM
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Boeing just drew down their credit lines.

In English, they took out the maximum cash advance that their card agreement would allow: $13.8 billion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...market-turmoil
  #157  
Old 03-11-2020, 05:06 PM
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Boeing just drew down their credit lines.

In English, they took out the maximum cash advance that their card agreement would allow: $13.8 billion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...market-turmoil
Is there any sort of historical precedent for what that means?
In other words have other very large companies done that in the past and what happened next?
  #158  
Old 03-11-2020, 05:11 PM
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Yes, it's generally a bad sign, signalling that the company is in major financial trouble. I can find examples of this in 2008, but would have to go home and read some books. I'm thinking Bear Stearns and/or Lehman Brothers did the same thing... oh! Enron did this, but not in 2008... and there are some others.

The only time it was done successfully (in my memory) was Ford in 2008, who effectively mortgaged the entire company as to not be put under receivership ala GM. It worked, but Ford is still struggling... even before this crash, their stock traded below $10.

Last edited by JohnT; 03-11-2020 at 05:13 PM.
  #159  
Old 03-11-2020, 05:26 PM
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Thanks. Interesting times.
  #160  
Old 03-11-2020, 05:38 PM
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The NCAA announced the no fans attending March Madness games. World Health Organization just declared covid-19 a pandemic.
  #161  
Old 03-11-2020, 06:41 PM
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If you think the markets are down now, wait until cases spike in Washington, DC, New York City, Chicago, and LA - that's when the fun really begins. I don't think our healthcare system is prepared for what's about to happen, and I don't think our economic policymakers are either. We're in for a rough ride, folks.
First case in downtown Chicago confirmed today.
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Old 03-11-2020, 07:33 PM
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First case in downtown Chicago confirmed today.
Yep, just a matter of time.

But let's think about what happens when it starts disrupting the very people who work and make decisions in some of the more critical 'nerve centers' of our government and economy. We're getting closer to that moment, I'm afraid.
  #163  
Old 03-11-2020, 07:34 PM
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The NCAA announced the no fans attending March Madness games. World Health Organization just declared covid-19 a pandemic.
Well that's the smart decision - color me impressed. Now if they could just do the same with NBA and NHL.
  #164  
Old 03-11-2020, 08:01 PM
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Yes, it's generally a bad sign, signalling that the company is in major financial trouble. I can find examples of this in 2008, but would have to go home and read some books. I'm thinking Bear Stearns and/or Lehman Brothers did the same thing... oh! Enron did this, but not in 2008... and there are some others.

The only time it was done successfully (in my memory) was Ford in 2008, who effectively mortgaged the entire company as to not be put under receivership ala GM. It worked, but Ford is still struggling... even before this crash, their stock traded below $10.
I'm guessing Boeing will get some 'socialism'.

Others? Not so much.
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Old 03-11-2020, 08:24 PM
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Yes, it's generally a bad sign, signalling that the company is in major financial trouble. I can find examples of this in 2008, but would have to go home and read some books. I'm thinking Bear Stearns and/or Lehman Brothers did the same thing... oh! Enron did this, but not in 2008... and there are some others.

The only time it was done successfully (in my memory) was Ford in 2008, who effectively mortgaged the entire company as to not be put under receivership ala GM. It worked, but Ford is still struggling... even before this crash, their stock traded below $10.
dp

Last edited by asahi; 03-11-2020 at 08:25 PM.
  #166  
Old 03-11-2020, 09:07 PM
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People are about to find out that our "strong" economy...isn't really that strong.
I think we've pretty much established that, ROFLMAO.

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Without question, this type of shock event would hurt an economy that was more focused on stability than growth (i.e. a more socialized economy), but because we've been trying to pump up the boom side of the cycle, the bust is going to hurt like a mother. Count on it. We're headed for a deep recession.
Yep - that, too. And that's because...

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The only question right now is how long it lasts, and that depends a lot on the decisions that policymakers make - not just here in the US but elsewhere.
And looking at markets in Tokyo (and Dow futures), it looks like the Mango Moghul is well on his way to fucking up your retirement.

Congratulations, 'Merkuh'! You made your bed, now fucking sleep in it.

Last edited by asahi; 03-11-2020 at 09:08 PM.
  #167  
Old 03-11-2020, 09:19 PM
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Except the people sleeping in it often aren't the ones who made it. I'll probably be fine. The restaurant I ate in tonight said they're working with half staff. I doubt there's a lot of Trump voters in the San Francisco bartender population.
  #168  
Old 03-11-2020, 09:25 PM
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The silver lining here is that some health officials and some business leaders aren't waiting for Trump and his ham-handed HHS/CDC; they're taking the initiative on their own. The presidents of universities who made the decision to close schools, the commissioner of the NBA, the NCAA...they're saving lives. A tip of the hat to them all, and I'll walk back some of my dire warnings and criticisms. If they can inspire others to do the same, maybe we'll get past this crisis a little sooner.
  #169  
Old 03-12-2020, 07:58 AM
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Markets, however, are a different matter. Like COVID, calming markets will depend on how governments respond, and it doesn't look like the markets have much confidence in this administration.

We're already headed toward a recession - that is no longer in question. But a recession is not as bad as things could get. We could have a complete, total market meltdown globally, which would lead to a depression.

I don't say this lightly. I wouldn't say the odds are 50/50 just yet, but we can no longer consider these chances as 'remote.' There's a real chance that missteps could trigger panic selling that could spread into a massive global contagion that would be unrecoverable.

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  #170  
Old 03-12-2020, 08:07 AM
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I'll put it this way: if Trump admin doesn't offer plans for direct infusion of capital to companies impacted by this, and if they don't immediately implement plans to put cash in the hands of people - working people - who will be impacted by layoffs...if that doesn't happen right quick, we're headed for total economic collapse. And the reason I say that is because this is moving so fast. It's moving so fast and people at the controls are thinking more about politics when they need to be thinking about what the fuck they're doing to stop the bleeding.

It's not 2008 - that's true. But it's no less dangerous to the economy, and what's more dangerous now is that the people in charge are dangerously incompetent, and there is a lot less global cooperation - again no thanks to Trump's 'America First' policies which discourage cooperation.

We're a lot closer to 1929 than people realize.

Last edited by asahi; 03-12-2020 at 08:09 AM.
  #171  
Old 03-12-2020, 02:56 PM
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So now the NY Fed is going to inject 500 billion into the stock market. Does that mean Powell is ordering this or is it someone else? The markets gained somewhat upon this news.
  #172  
Old 03-12-2020, 03:23 PM
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So now the NY Fed is going to inject 500 billion into the stock market. Does that mean Powell is ordering this or is it someone else? The markets gained somewhat upon this news.
Temporarily, but the Dow is down 2,352 over the day, almost exactly 10%.

I am more and more thinking we need to do a hard shut-down. Close every school, every business except grocery stores and drug stores. Send out Universal Basic Income checks of $1,000 to every person. Make sure people have what they need to live, and little else, until we see declining numbers.
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Old 03-12-2020, 06:44 PM
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Temporarily, but the Dow is down 2,352 over the day, almost exactly 10%.

I am more and more thinking we need to do a hard shut-down. Close every school, every business except grocery stores and drug stores. Send out Universal Basic Income checks of $1,000 to every person. Make sure people have what they need to live, and little else, until we see declining numbers.
Speaking strictly about the economics of this, any "stimulus" - whatever the hell the fed and admin want to call it - has to focus on putting cash in people's hands. It's the cash that matters. It's the liquidity, and it has to take into account the liquidity that people will need in order to survive a massive shutdown of the economy.

But even if we do that, as LHOD posted above, we are probably going to need a hard shutdown - maybe 2-4 weeks - of all but the most essential of business. And let's be real: this is going to present difficulties that are unprecedented and scary as hell.

We're going to have some old people going to your local ER by the dozens, and while that's happening, those who are not yet ill are going to be shitting in their pants at the thought of daring to venture outside their homes to get food and medicine.

Beyond that, we're going to have grocery stores and pharmacies that are open, but employees who are afraid to go to work.

We're going to have supply chains severely disrupted, and we're going to have demand that is so uncertain nobody will know how large their orders should be. Maritime commerce is going to be disrupted, with empty ships at the docks and laid off longshoremen.

We're going to have gas station employees afraid to go to work. Train and bus terminals, and airports that are well below capacity.

Yes, we will eventually come back to normal, but it might not start to feel that way until late summer or even early fall, which would be not too far away from the next virus season.

We are way, way behind on this, and I don't think we've come anywhere close to seeing the worst of the nightmare.
  #174  
Old 03-12-2020, 09:21 PM
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This is where I'm wondering if government workers like me oughtta be repurposed.

If/when my school closes, it's likely I'll still be paid. Putting teachers across the nation out of a paycheck would be a body blow to the economy, not to mention the court cases that would arise from contract violations.

But a lot of parents will be staying home with kids. And there will be elderly folks who need deliveries of food and medicine.

Since the government is paying us anyway, it might make sense to put us in charge of this. Our cafeteria staff can work on food prep; we can be a massive Meals [and Pills] on Wheels program, handling the grunt-level work.

This isn't really work I'd enjoy, but it might be vital work over the next few weeks.
  #175  
Old 03-12-2020, 11:33 PM
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8 am more and more thinking we need to do a hard shut-down. Close every school, every business except grocery stores and drug stores. Send out Universal Basic Income checks of $1,000 to every person. Make sure people have what they need to live, and little else, until we see declining numbers.
A bit off topic, but I struggle to imagine how this would be imposed and enforced without giving the federal government, led by Donald Trump, extraordinary powers that itíll never give up. Not to mention figuring out what industries to keep open (water and electricity, obviously, but how about the internet?).

As for ďchecks,Ē something like that will definitely be necessary, no matter what happens from here on in, but donít forget all the people who are too poor to have bank accounts. Whoís going to cash those checks for them?
  #176  
Old 03-13-2020, 12:37 AM
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I think we've pretty much established that, ROFLMAO.



Yep - that, too. And that's because...



And looking at markets in Tokyo (and Dow futures), it looks like the Mango Moghul is well on his way to fucking up your retirement.

Congratulations, 'Merkuh'! You made your bed, now fucking sleep in it.
Címon now. Look at all the stuff that has occurred in history beyond the last two weeks. World wars, genocides, real pandemics all were disruptive and led to mass death. Yet, technological progress and productivity continued to improve.

So unless you are retiring tomorrow and are foolishly in 100% equities that close to retirement then there is nothing to worry about. In 10 years if this board is still up check your stocks and post the difference in their value between now and then. I do one think itís an even better time to buy. But thatís because I am a student of history.
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Old 03-13-2020, 08:57 AM
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Please see post 135 for an analysis of "history beyond the last two weeks", Octopus.
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Old 03-13-2020, 10:03 AM
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Trump is set to speak at 3pm.

The markets will still be open at 3pm.

My bet: It's delayed until after 4pm.
  #179  
Old 03-13-2020, 11:17 AM
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Please see post 135 for an analysis of "history beyond the last two weeks", Octopus.
What I conclude from Post 135 is that the markets will rebound nicely during the Biden administration.

I don't agree with Octopus on much, but I think he's right here. If you have a time horizon of at least ten years, now* is a good time to buy.

*With a ten-plus year time horizon, any time is a good time to buy.
  #180  
Old 03-13-2020, 11:29 AM
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I completely refute Octopuses assertion. The markets are still in free fall, so now is the right time to hold.

And I refute the "10 year horizon" statement of "any time is a good time to buy" as one can look at DJIA history and find 10-year flat periods with ease.

My grandparents started investing in 1934. I think that made a helluva difference in their returns than if they started investing in 1924.

Last edited by JohnT; 03-13-2020 at 11:31 AM.
  #181  
Old 03-13-2020, 11:46 AM
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... too late to edit, but my grandparents sold their holdings in 1999, 2000. Timing matters. Imagine if their horizon was 1944-2009 - that would've made a massive difference in their returns. Still good, great even, but nothing like the spectacular luck which they had.
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Old 03-13-2020, 11:47 AM
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I completely refute Octopuses assertion. The markets are still in free fall, so now is the right time to hold.

And I refute the "10 year horizon" statement of "any time is a good time to buy" as one can look at DJIA history and find 10-year flat periods with ease.

My grandparents started investing in 1934. I think that made a helluva difference in their returns than if they started investing in 1924.
Unlike those who advocate for a nanny state I believe you have the choice to manage your life as you wish. My advice is still much better than those who hyperventilate every time a headline has bold letters and an exclamation point.
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Old 03-13-2020, 12:28 PM
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I completely refute Octopuses assertion. The markets are still in free fall, so now is the right time to hold.
You're right. Buying at the bottom is a better strategy. Thank you for the correction.
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Old 03-13-2020, 02:03 PM
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Unlike those who advocate for a nanny state I believe you have the choice to manage your life as you wish. My advice is still much better than those who hyperventilate every time a headline has bold letters and an exclamation point.
So, your only reassurance that you are correct is, not one, but two generalized insults?

Here are my citations that buying in this market is a losers game:

https://twitter.com/jsblokland/statu...980355584?s=20

https://northmantrader.com/2020/03/13/the-big-short/

https://www.ft.com/content/f013c18e-...3-fe4680ea68b5

... to that last...

Quote:
Investors are racing to protect themselves from the risk of corporate defaults as uncertainty intensifies over the economic implications of coronavirus, sending the cost of credit insurance to levels not seen in the US for eight years.

With credit markets reeling from the widening outbreak and an oil price war that has raised questions over the health of energy companies, trading in credit default swaps has been elevated and prices have soared.

An index of credit default swaps on investment-grade companies on Thursday hit 140 basis points, its highest since December 2011, while an equivalent index for CDS on junk-rated companies hit 688 basis points, its highest since June 2012, according to data from IHS Markit.

...

Credit default swaps are instruments that pay compensation if a borrower defaults, and IHS Markitís CDX indices include CDS on dozens of companies. Borrowers included in the investment-grade index include Boeing, whose airline customers have borne the brunt of travel bans, and Disney, which shut its Los Angeles theme park on Thursday. The junk bond CDS index includes oil producer Murphy Oil, drilling contractor Transocean, and Whiting Petroleum, an oil exploration company.
  #185  
Old 03-13-2020, 02:10 PM
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I completely refute Octopuses assertion. The markets are still in free fall, so now is the right time to hold.

And I refute the "10 year horizon" statement of "any time is a good time to buy" as one can look at DJIA history and find 10-year flat periods with ease.

My grandparents started investing in 1934. I think that made a helluva difference in their returns than if they started investing in 1924.
Long time Dopers might remember that back in 2005 when Bush was talking about changing Social Security into a program that allowed money to be put into the market, conservatives would say that the Dow was always up over any 10 year period. (Since the Depression, that is.) 2008 put an end to that record.

Holding and accumulating cash in case you lose your job is probably the right thing to do now - but buying is probably better than selling.
All assuming you don't need money now.
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Old 03-13-2020, 02:17 PM
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But even then, that wasn't true as even a cursory glance at that link shows. (Prices are adjusted for inflation.)

For example, adjusted for inflation, the DJIA hit a high in October of 1965 which wasn't exceeded until 30 years later, in 1995.

Like I said: Conservative views of economics are purely faith-based.

Last edited by JohnT; 03-13-2020 at 02:22 PM.
  #187  
Old 03-13-2020, 04:07 PM
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So, your only reassurance that you are correct is, not one, but two generalized insults?

Here are my citations that buying in this market is a losers game:

https://twitter.com/jsblokland/statu...980355584?s=20

https://northmantrader.com/2020/03/13/the-big-short/

https://www.ft.com/content/f013c18e-...3-fe4680ea68b5

... to that last...
Tell you what, you can look at any down period in history aside from this current one and youíll see an even higher peak. Iíll value that historical data over a twitter opinion.
  #188  
Old 03-13-2020, 04:13 PM
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To my point: faith-based economics.

"If you look at a partial set of data, using nominal dollars, my theory is correct!"

Last edited by JohnT; 03-13-2020 at 04:16 PM.
  #189  
Old 03-13-2020, 04:26 PM
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To my point: faith-based economics.
Yet, productivity and progress keep moving forward! What, precisely, is your investment strategy? I donít know about you but my crystal ball, my tea leaves, my duck entrails donít work to find absolute minimums or maximums in markets. And since I donít buy nor sell at one period in time I donít care about extrema in any event.

In long term investing you canít be guided by emotions, hysteria, or bad information. Tell me, what are you doing with your retirement accounts? Whatís your age? Are you selling everything in a panic and putting it in so-called cash? Itís your money so what you do with it is up to you. However, advocating foolish advice inspired by mass hysteria is irresponsible and irrational.

Iíll tell you what Iím doing with our retirement accounts and our taxable investing accounts. We are adding more. And we are making sure we donít have excess cash. So as soon as bills are paid we take a few thousand of the extra each month and put in into taxable accounts. We wonít need that money until 2045 at the earliest so I donít care if the market drops another 30%. If we arenít at a higher level of national productivity in 2045 we will have bigger societal and personal problems than numbers in a database.

Now if one is living off of savings and that is oneís sole source of income and it is in 100% equities and one canít afford a 50% drop than one is being greedy and foolish. Notice all the conditionals.

Last edited by octopus; 03-13-2020 at 04:28 PM.
  #190  
Old 03-13-2020, 04:29 PM
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AmErIcA iS sPeCiAl! ThIs CaN nEvEr HaPpEn To Us!

Actually, it can.
  #191  
Old 03-13-2020, 04:35 PM
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Yet, productivity and progress keep moving forward! What, precisely, is your investment strategy? I donít know about you but my crystal ball, my tea leaves, my duck entrails donít work to find absolute minimums or maximums in markets. And since I donít buy nor sell at one period in time I donít care about extrema in any event.

In long term investing you canít be guided by emotions, hysteria, or bad information. Tell me, what are you doing with your retirement accounts? Whatís your age? Are you selling everything in a panic and putting it in so-called cash? Itís your money so what you do with it is up to you. However, advocating foolish advice inspired by mass hysteria is irresponsible and irrational.

Iíll tell you what Iím doing with our retirement accounts and our taxable investing accounts. We are adding more. And we are making sure we donít have excess cash. So as soon as bills are paid we take a few thousand of the extra each month and put in into taxable accounts. We wonít need that money until 2045 at the earliest so I donít care if the market drops another 30%. If we arenít at a higher level of national productivity in 2045 we will have bigger societal and personal problems than numbers in a database.

Now if one is living off of savings and that is oneís sole source of income and it is in 100% equities and one canít afford a 50% drop than one is being greedy and foolish. Notice all the conditionals.
Again, you're fantasizing, making up things, and accusing me of them. Since when did I ever, ever mention "my investing strategy"?

My investment strategy? I was born to a wealthy family. Lots of inheritance money in accounts I barely even look at, just have my guy rebalance them. Cool trick if you can manage it. I even get a free dinner every year and invites to the money managers swank Christmas party!

Last edited by JohnT; 03-13-2020 at 04:40 PM.
  #192  
Old 03-13-2020, 04:43 PM
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Again, you're fantasizing, making up things, and accusing me of them. Since when did I ever, ever mention "my investing strategy"?

My investment strategy? I was born to a wealthy family. Lots of inheritance money in accounts I barely even look at, just have my guy rebalance them. Cool trick if you can manage it. I even get a free dinner every year and invites to the money managers swank Christmas party!
So what are you advocating folks to do? You are saying I live in fantasy land but you arenít offering any practical advice? Stick your neck out just a little.
  #193  
Old 03-13-2020, 04:45 PM
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I said this was the time to hold, not sell, nor buy. If you're doing a DCA, continue it. If you're trying to time the market, stop.

I would like to note that you literally responded to my "The markets are still in free fall, so now is the right time to hold" comment, and then 10-odd posts later, you challenge me to give my advice.
  #194  
Old 03-13-2020, 04:52 PM
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I said this was the time to hold, not sell, nor buy. If you're doing a DCA, continue it. If you're trying to time the market, stop.

I would like to note that you literally responded to my "The markets are still in free fall, so now is the right time to hold" comment, and then 10-odd posts later, you challenge me to give my advice.
Oops! Well I stand corrected. My apologies.
  #195  
Old 03-13-2020, 05:39 PM
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No problem, my friend.

As far as personal investing is concerned, we are on the same page. But ones returns are a function of historical timing, which is uncontrollable.

Last edited by JohnT; 03-13-2020 at 05:42 PM.
  #196  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:11 AM
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I think we've pretty much established that, ROFLMAO.



Yep - that, too. And that's because...



And looking at markets in Tokyo (and Dow futures), it looks like the Mango Moghul is well on his way to fucking up your retirement.

Congratulations, 'Merkuh'! You made your bed, now fucking sleep in it.
Just wondering... were you aware you were responding to yourself?

Last edited by JohnT; 03-15-2020 at 09:15 AM.
  #197  
Old 03-15-2020, 01:39 PM
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Just wondering... were you aware you were responding to yourself?
Absolutely. I could start a thread of my own, and me, myself, and I would have quite the discussion - believe me.
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Old 03-15-2020, 04:50 PM
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The Federal Reserve has just cut the Fed Funds Rate by 100 basis points to 0%. And they're going to launch as massive $700bn quantitative easing program.

I'm speechless. Trump knows he can't win the election if the economy goes against him, so he's decided to print money until everyone's happy. Unbelievable.
  #199  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:00 PM
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The Federal Reserve has just cut the Fed Funds Rate by 100 basis points to 0%. And they're going to launch as massive $700bn quantitative easing program.

I'm speechless. Trump knows he can't win the election if the economy goes against him, so he's decided to print money until everyone's happy. Unbelievable.
If he really cared, he'd find ways to make sure that the money goes right into the hands of the consumer; instead it's going into the banks' hands.

A bigger problem, though, is that Jay Powell's being bullied into making political decisions. The Fed is increasingly subject to political manipulation, and that's bad.

Last edited by asahi; 03-15-2020 at 09:01 PM.
  #200  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Sefton View Post
The Federal Reserve has just cut the Fed Funds Rate by 100 basis points to 0%. And they're going to launch as massive $700bn quantitative easing program.

I'm speechless. Trump knows he can't win the election if the economy goes against him, so he's decided to print money until everyone's happy. Unbelievable.
That's not the problem. The emergency cut on Sunday means the Fed thinks the economy is in a crisis situation. That's going to spook the markets - and already has, since futures are down.

Goldman Sachs forecast 0 growth in the first quarter (which may be optimistic) and negative growth in the second quarter. What does the Fed have left when we officially go into recession?

Movie ticket sales were down 44% this weekend. Several major brands are closing all their stores. Starbucks is going drive-through only.
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