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  #101  
Old 02-26-2020, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Chitwood View Post
It has nothing to do with being young or idealistic. I'm almost 40 and I doubt there is anyone in this thread much more cynical about the political future of this country than me. But yes. Your observation is appalling.

If Pete Buttigieg said, as pure platitude, with no substance and out of context, "Truth is truth," there would be Democrats with tears in their eyes talking about how presidential that young man is. My DC lanyard-class friends would want that shit tattooed on their hearts. And it is the kind of thing Buttigieg has probably focus-grouped, and has a whiteboard full of somewhere: little aphorisms to pepper in and make commercials out of, as long as they don't in any way inform the very artificial way you present information. You want to take the presidency from Donald Trump, and you're saying "Truth is truth." Beautiful. Campaign slogan, even.

The guy who is actually leading the race says it, in the context of explaining why he's not being a hypocrite and explaining the not actually wrong thing he's being attacked for, and this is your response because he's further to the left than you and thus must be insane. Not that his point was inaccurate, or shameful, or bad, or that he should apologize for it. Just that it's politically difficult, and those things have to be dealt with in as manufactured and cosmetic a way as possible at all times.

Not being hypocritical about things when you have no good reason to be hypocritical about them: bad politics. The Democrats, 2020, ladies and gentlemen.
Bravo. Well said.
  #102  
Old 02-26-2020, 07:55 AM
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People need to stop talking about Warren getting the VP slot. Why would she be an "excellent VP"? And it's a nothing job, who cares if they're excellent anyways? And do you really want the Dems to run the angry grandpa-grandma ticket?

The only reason I see, is to backdoor her into the presidential nom in 4 years. After that Bernie will be too old and she'll be a spry 74 years old! Yugh.

She's a good Senator. Quit trying to find her a new job.

Last edited by CarnalK; 02-26-2020 at 07:55 AM.
  #103  
Old 02-26-2020, 08:09 AM
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Such an easy target though that it's almost embarrassing.

I don't know why she's afraid to go after Bernie, but she's done if she doesn't.
warren and sanders have a non aggression pact. they will not attack each other.
  #104  
Old 02-26-2020, 08:16 AM
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Bloomberg's first debate savaging didn't seem to change his polling.
  #105  
Old 02-26-2020, 09:14 AM
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All I saw was a complete shitshow that was literally incomprehensible quite often. I blame that on the moderators, but the desperation of the candidates was also on very much on display.

I still don't think they went after Sanders hard enough. Warren and Sanders obviously have some behind the scenes agreement going on. I am starting to believe after the "a woman can't be president" incident he dealed out a VP slot to get her to shut up.
  #106  
Old 02-26-2020, 09:20 AM
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Impact on me as a center Left Democrat who has been no fan of Sanders:

Bloomberg does not have what it takes.

Biden might after all.

I am more optimistic about the prospects with a Sanders led ticket than I was.
  #107  
Old 02-26-2020, 09:27 AM
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Mods need to act more like sports refs and decisively clamp down and enforce the rules. Cut off candidates hard when they exceed time, enforce some no-interrupting rule.
  #108  
Old 02-26-2020, 09:44 AM
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warren and sanders have a non aggression pact. they will not attack each other.
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Warren and Sanders obviously have some behind the scenes agreement going on.
Then why does she keep on saying that while they generally agree on what needs doing, she's the one who gets stuff done, and he's the one who just yells a lot?
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I am starting to believe after the "a woman can't be president" incident he dealed out a VP slot to get her to shut up.
Why would she want to be VP? Treasury secretary or Fed chair, maybe.

The other thing is, with the importance of minority turnout to the Dems' potential success, an all-white ticket in 2020 would be an own goal, just as it was in 2016.
  #109  
Old 02-26-2020, 09:44 AM
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What’s with Warren bringing up the debunk story she was fired for being pregnant? Was it to get the line in about ‘kill it’’ aimed to Bloomberg?
  #110  
Old 02-26-2020, 10:05 AM
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Naked. Cowboy. Can Bloomers be any more obviously a Republican shill?
I thought Pete looked like the smart kid in a fist fight most of last night.

I've already mailed my ballot. It doesn't matter for me, Colorado will go "not-billionaire Blue" no matter what I say, and I can live with any of those choices. The hardest part was deciding whether to fill out the Republican ballot in favor one of the Not Trump Republicans (the magic of being Unaffiliated), or vote for my favorite Dem.
  #111  
Old 02-26-2020, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Chitwood View Post
It has nothing to do with being young or idealistic. I'm almost 40 and I doubt there is anyone in this thread much more cynical about the political future of this country than me. But yes. Your observation is appalling.

If Pete Buttigieg said, as pure platitude, with no substance and out of context, "Truth is truth," there would be Democrats with tears in their eyes talking about how presidential that young man is. My DC lanyard-class friends would want that shit tattooed on their hearts. And it is the kind of thing Buttigieg has probably focus-grouped, and has a whiteboard full of somewhere: little aphorisms to pepper in and make commercials out of, as long as they don't in any way inform the very artificial way you present information. You want to take the presidency from Donald Trump, and you're saying "Truth is truth." Beautiful. Campaign slogan, even.

The guy who is actually leading the race says it, in the context of explaining why he's not being a hypocrite and explaining the not actually wrong thing he's being attacked for, and this is your response because he's further to the left than you and thus must be insane. Not that his point was inaccurate, or shameful, or bad, or that he should apologize for it. Just that it's politically difficult, and those things have to be dealt with in as manufactured and cosmetic a way as possible at all times.

Not being hypocritical about things when you have no good reason to be hypocritical about them: bad politics. The Democrats, 2020, ladies and gentlemen.
I don't find Pete as 3-D printed as you describe. I think he is smart, talented, and competent as a politician. I think his heart and mind are in the right place. Perhaps, not in the right time.

As to Bernie's 'upside of Castro's Cuba' comments, I find them to be the opposite of a smart political move. I appreciate his integrity of sticking to his opinions, but they do not serve him one iota. Never have. Never will. There is no political or rhetorical up side to informing everyone for years running that 'Say what you will, but Cuba under Castro was a very literate society'.
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  #112  
Old 02-26-2020, 10:14 AM
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What’s with Warren bringing up the debunk story she was fired for being pregnant? Was it to get the line in about ‘kill it’’ aimed to Bloomberg?


Cite that it is debunked? Sounds like right wing bubble nonsense.
  #113  
Old 02-26-2020, 10:19 AM
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Cite that it is debunked? Sounds like right wing bubble nonsense.
Doesn't seem like it will ever be verifiable but it doesn't seem debunked either.
  #114  
Old 02-26-2020, 10:20 AM
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Cite that it is debunked? Sounds like right wing bubble nonsense.
It's not debunked. Early versions of the story have her quitting work to raise a baby, as do school board notes; but school board notes even back in 1970 wouldn't say "We fire any woman who gets pregnant," and "firing" someone by asking for their resignation is so ubiquitous it doesn't require explanation. She's explained the very slight discrepancy by saying that she's felt she could open up about her past since becoming a senator.
  #115  
Old 02-26-2020, 10:21 AM
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People need to stop talking about Warren getting the VP slot. Why would she be an "excellent VP"? And it's a nothing job, who cares if they're excellent anyways? And do you really want the Dems to run the angry grandpa-grandma ticket?

The only reason I see, is to backdoor her into the presidential nom in 4 years. After that Bernie will be too old and she'll be a spry 74 years old! Yugh.

She's a good Senator. Quit trying to find her a new job.
Not to mention Massachusetts has a Republican Governor who'll be able to nominate a short term replacement (I think a special election has to be called within 160 days of a vacancy).
  #116  
Old 02-26-2020, 10:23 AM
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I don't find Pete as 3-D printed as you describe. I think he is smart, talented, and competent as a politician. I think his heart and mind are in the right place. Perhaps, not in the right time.
Four or eight years from now, Buttigieg will be a much more formidable presidential candidate.

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There is no political or rhetorical up side to informing everyone for years running that 'Say what you will, but Cuba under Castro was a very literate society'.
This, pretty much. Considering that Bernie is going to great lengths to point out that "Democratic socialism is not at all the same as what happened in Cuba or Venezuela," why is he then even mentioning Cuba at all? This would be like a Republican claiming that he doesn't support fascism, yet trying to point out how Hitler improved Germany's economy.
  #117  
Old 02-26-2020, 10:33 AM
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Who is coughing?
It looks like it was Mayor Pete I heard:
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Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg has cancelled four events in south Florida set for Wednesday because of illness.

Buttigieg campaign spokesman Chris Meagher says the former mayor is sick with a cold.

Buttigieg stills plans to attend an event Wednesday in Charleston, South Carolina, with the Rev. Al Sharpton, then travel to Washington for previously scheduled meetings.
I hope it is, in fact, just a cold.
  #118  
Old 02-26-2020, 10:46 AM
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I don't find Pete as 3-D printed as you describe. I think he is smart, talented, and competent as a politician. I think his heart and mind are in the right place. Perhaps, not in the right time.
Sure - apologies if that seemed to imply that was all there was to Buttigieg. I only mean to say that one thing that Buttigieg does is say things that are very calculated, and very abstract, and that "truth is truth" strikes me as something that would really sell well as one of those. My point was about a hypothetical reaction by a hypothetical Slacker-analog to a hypothetical Buttigieg who said this particular thing.

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As to Bernie's 'upside of Castro's Cuba' comments, I find them to be the opposite of a smart political move. I appreciate his integrity of sticking to his opinions, but they do not serve him one iota. Never have. Never will. There is no political or rhetorical up side to informing everyone for years running that 'Say what you will, but Cuba under Castro was a very literate society'.
It is my belief that if a time-travelling wizard took the statements "In politics, truth isn't truth" and "I appreciate his integrity of sticking to his opinions, but they do not serve him one iota. Never have. Never will." back in time 6 months to when Democrats expected this primary season to go very differently, center-left Democrats would consider these overwhelmingly distasteful, Republicany and post-truth things to say. If the wizard added the additional context that these were statements made about the "truth" and the "opinion" that helping kids learn to read is good, even if a socialist is doing it, I'm pretty sure I would have to give you more than a few guesses before you said "oh! Those will be our opinions!"

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This, pretty much. Considering that Bernie is going to great lengths to point out that "Democratic socialism is not at all the same as what happened in Cuba or Venezuela," why is he then even mentioning Cuba at all? This would be like a Republican claiming that he doesn't support fascism, yet trying to point out how Hitler improved Germany's economy.
He was answering a question specifically about Cuba. You knew that, though, right? You knew that he mentioned Cuba because Anderson Cooper said to him "hey what about your stance on Cuba in the 80s." It isn't really like your example at all, is it?
  #119  
Old 02-26-2020, 10:51 AM
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Why would she want to be VP? Treasury secretary or Fed chair, maybe.
Okay, so it's for some other position, whatever. I personally think picking Warren as VP would be idiotic, but I wouldn't put that past Bernie either.

Fact is, if she's sticking to a "non-aggression pact" with Bernie at this point in the game, she does NOT want to be President.
  #120  
Old 02-26-2020, 11:02 AM
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She has almost no chance at this point. Distant third her best finish in all the opening votes. 538 is giving her 1% chance of even a plurality. I don't think she'd need to be bribed to take one for team lefty and keep up the Bloomberg attacks.

Last edited by CarnalK; 02-26-2020 at 11:04 AM.
  #121  
Old 02-26-2020, 11:13 AM
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Sure - apologies if that seemed to imply that was all there was to Buttigieg. I only mean to say that one thing that Buttigieg does is say things that are very calculated, and very abstract, and that "truth is truth" strikes me as something that would really sell well as one of those. My point was about a hypothetical reaction by a hypothetical Slacker-analog to a hypothetical Buttigieg who said this particular thing.
No apologies necessary. As impressed as I am by him in this silly season, I am starting to appreciate that he may be a bit shy of the type of experience and political gravitas that will put him over the top if he decides to run again. (If this time does not work out for him.)


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It is my belief that if a time-travelling wizard took the statements "In politics, truth isn't truth" and "I appreciate his integrity of sticking to his opinions, but they do not serve him one iota. Never have. Never will." back in time 6 months to when Democrats expected this primary season to go very differently, center-left Democrats would consider these overwhelmingly distasteful, Republicany and post-truth things to say. If the wizard added the additional context that these were statements made about the "truth" and the "opinion" that helping kids learn to read is good, even if a socialist is doing it, I'm pretty sure I would have to give you more than a few guesses before you said "oh! Those will be our opinions!"
Sorry, I'm not getting you... say that again, more slowly.



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He was answering a question specifically about Cuba. You knew that, though, right? You knew that he mentioned Cuba because Anderson Cooper said to him "hey what about your stance on Cuba in the 80s." It isn't really like your example at all, is it?
Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but didn't Sanders double down with something like, 'It's okay to mention something good that was done by a bad dictator.'?
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  #122  
Old 02-26-2020, 11:27 AM
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She has almost no chance at this point. Distant third her best finish in all the opening votes. 538 is giving her 1% chance of even a plurality. I don't think she'd need to be bribed to take one for team lefty and keep up the Bloomberg attacks.
Well it's at least higher than Buttigieg's chances (0.4% chance of getting a plurality). Right now just Sanders, Biden, and Bloomberg have decent chances of plurality (67%, 24%, and 8% respectively). Of course those numbers can change after Super Tuesday, but they likely wouldn't benefit Warren (or Buttigieg) that much.
  #123  
Old 02-26-2020, 11:41 AM
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Regarding Sanders and Cuba. It is silly to take the position that our bad guys must be pure bad and that any factual positive about them must be denied in service of cartoonish villainess.

Truth actually does matter.

He earns points with me.
  #124  
Old 02-26-2020, 11:53 AM
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Regarding Sanders and Cuba. It is silly to take the position that our bad guys must be pure bad and that any factual positive about them must be denied in service of cartoonish villainess.
So you are saying there are good people on both sides?

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  #125  
Old 02-26-2020, 12:00 PM
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No. He's saying that even bad people can do sometimes do a good thing.

In fact, that's exactly what Bernie said.

See the difference?
  #126  
Old 02-26-2020, 12:01 PM
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Regarding Sanders and Cuba. It is silly to take the position that our bad guys must be pure bad and that any factual positive about them must be denied in service of cartoonish villainess.

Truth actually does matter.

He earns points with me.
Truth does matter. And the truth is that nobody disputes the fact that high literacy rates are a good thing in any society. In my opinion three generations of Kims in North Korea don't get sufficient credit for having among the highest literacy rate in the world.
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  #127  
Old 02-26-2020, 12:08 PM
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Seriously Shodan that is a dumb comment.

Bad people can and usually do still have aspects that are not evil. If there was something positive Trump accomplished or was right about pI wouldn’t pretend it did not exist. Can’t think of anything but if.
  #128  
Old 02-26-2020, 12:30 PM
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Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but didn't Sanders double down with something like, 'It's okay to mention something good that was done by a bad dictator.'?
He did. I think in the 80s, he said that Castro's people liked Castro more than Americans believed, because of things like his literacy programs. Cooper brought it up recently to say, hey, how about the locking up and murdering of dissidents though?

Sanders said yeah, we should condemn authoritarianism, but that also, things like literacy programs are good and people want them, even if somebody like Castro is doing them. I assume the point was that socialist programs in general are, therefore, not bad just because Castro or pick-a-dictator had them, although it would have helped for him to try to make that part more explicit. Maybe he did and it didn't make the sound bites or whatever, I dunno.

I think one of the advantages of holding the line where he did -- bad men bad, good program good -- is that there's going to be fear-mongering regardless, and if he looks like he's walking back, that's inherently untrustworthy. It would be fair to say that after he's been yelling about a revolution for 40 years, it would be obviously phony for him to suddenly say that oh yeah, socialist revolutions have all uniformly been shit, I was wrong about all of those. And people would think oh shit, he's lying about what he wants to do, he really is a scumbag communist who doesn't want us to be able to pick our favorite deodorant because that's capitalism.

If he, instead, clarifies where he's been at all along, and does a better job of articulating that the state is not actually going to seize the means of production from Elon Musk or whatever, even if it raises teacher salaries, then I think that makes clear just how much merit there is to criticisms made in bad faith like:

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So you are saying there are good people on both sides?
  #129  
Old 02-26-2020, 12:39 PM
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He did. I think in the 80s, he said that Castro's people liked Castro more than Americans believed, because of things like his literacy programs. Cooper brought it up recently to say, hey, how about the locking up and murdering of dissidents though?

Sanders said yeah, we should condemn authoritarianism, but that also, things like literacy programs are good and people want them, even if somebody like Castro is doing them. I assume the point was that socialist programs in general are, therefore, not bad just because Castro or pick-a-dictator had them, although it would have helped for him to try to make that part more explicit. Maybe he did and it didn't make the sound bites or whatever, I dunno.

I think one of the advantages of holding the line where he did -- bad men bad, good program good -- is that there's going to be fear-mongering regardless, and if he looks like he's walking back, that's inherently untrustworthy. It would be fair to say that after he's been yelling about a revolution for 40 years, it would be obviously phony for him to suddenly say that oh yeah, socialist revolutions have all uniformly been shit, I was wrong about all of those. And people would think oh shit, he's lying about what he wants to do, he really is a scumbag communist who doesn't want us to be able to pick our favorite deodorant because that's capitalism.

If he, instead, clarifies where he's been at all along, and does a better job of articulating that the state is not actually going to seize the means of production from Elon Musk or whatever, even if it raises teacher salaries, then I think that makes clear just how much merit there is to criticisms made in bad faith like:
I'm not super bent out of shape because he complimented Castro on his literacy record. I get it. I do. But if he's so committed to being consistent about bad guys doing some good things with respect to literacy, then perhaps he should give props to the Kims of NK for their education policies. Or maybe he should have said that his views on it have evolved and matured since then instead of doubling down. It was a politically unsound decision and it's okay to admit that about Sanders, even by those of us who understand his motives.
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  #130  
Old 02-26-2020, 12:55 PM
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It looks like it was Mayor Pete I heard:I hope it is, in fact, just a cold.
Nah. That just means the next pitch would be off speed...
  #131  
Old 02-26-2020, 01:45 PM
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I'm not super bent out of shape because he complimented Castro on his literacy record. I get it. I do. But if he's so committed to being consistent about bad guys doing some good things with respect to literacy, then perhaps he should give props to the Kims of NK for their education policies. Or maybe he should have said that his views on it have evolved and matured since then instead of doubling down. It was a politically unsound decision and it's okay to admit that about Sanders, even by those of us who understand his motives.
Was he asked about North Korea?

I didn't see the debate.
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Old 02-26-2020, 01:49 PM
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Was he asked about North Korea?

I didn't see the debate.
No. But he took the trouble to criticize it anyway. So he might have mentioned their literacy rates in passing.
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  #133  
Old 02-26-2020, 03:21 PM
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People need to stop talking about Warren getting the VP slot. Why would she be an "excellent VP"? And it's a nothing job, who cares if they're excellent anyways? [Snip.] She's a good Senator. Quit trying to find her a new job.
It won't be a nothing job IF we manage to get 50 Dem Senators. Then a Dem VP would be breaking ties on party-line votes morning, noon, and night. Then her being a good Senator would be right in her wheelhouse as VP.
  #134  
Old 02-26-2020, 03:40 PM
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The truth is that Castro didn't even improve the literacy in Cuba that much, so why go out of your way to prop him up?

Is he going to go out of his way to talk about what a great job Trump has done with the economy?
  #135  
Old 02-26-2020, 03:52 PM
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It won't be a nothing job IF we manage to get 50 Dem Senators. Then a Dem VP would be breaking ties on party-line votes morning, noon, and night. Then her being a good Senator would be right in her wheelhouse as VP.
Or she could be a good Senator as a Senator. Why would we need to have her specifically to break ties?
  #136  
Old 02-26-2020, 04:50 PM
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The truth is that Castro didn't even improve the literacy in Cuba that much, so why go out of your way to prop him up?
Cite?
  #137  
Old 02-26-2020, 04:57 PM
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The truth is that Castro didn't even improve the literacy in Cuba that much, so why go out of your way to prop him up?
96% not doing it for you, huh
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Old 02-26-2020, 05:00 PM
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I for one am shocked (SHOCKED!) that Socsback would make an assertion that had no relation to reality and was, in fact, untrue.
  #139  
Old 02-26-2020, 05:10 PM
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Before Castro it was around 77%, according to UNESCO.
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Old 02-26-2020, 05:43 PM
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96% not doing it for you, huh
First of all, they started at 77%, and improved to 96% (reportedly). It's not like they started from zero. They had one of the highest literacy rates in Latin America prior to Castro. Not to mention, why would Bernie take the data from a police state like Castro's Cuba as a legitimate measure? There are all kinds of reasons to question those numbers, obviously. But yeah, let's just take Castro at his word, and give him an attaboy.

Last edited by Socsback; 02-26-2020 at 05:47 PM.
  #141  
Old 02-26-2020, 05:55 PM
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So you have nothing but false assertions to contribute to the thread? Okay.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 02-26-2020 at 05:57 PM.
  #142  
Old 02-26-2020, 06:05 PM
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Giving up evening electronics for Lent. Going to go do something worthwhile. Have a great evening, Snowboarder.
  #143  
Old 02-26-2020, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Chitwood View Post
It has nothing to do with being young or idealistic. I'm almost 40

Which makes you a Millennial.


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Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
Considering that Bernie is going to great lengths to point out that "Democratic socialism is not at all the same as what happened in Cuba or Venezuela," why is he then even mentioning Cuba at all? This would be like a Republican claiming that he doesn't support fascism, yet trying to point out how Hitler improved Germany's economy.

GREAT way to crystallize it. The impression given is "Castro and the Sandinistas had the right idea, but made some mistakes, so I will fine-tune their approach, avoid making some of the same mistakes they did." And in fact this is exactly what his most hardcore supporters want! But it's not what the majority of Americans want, to put it mildly.


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Originally Posted by Jimmy Chitwood View Post
My point was about a hypothetical reaction by a hypothetical Slacker-analog to a hypothetical Buttigieg who said this particular thing.

Looks like you need to work on your analogies. This is what I wrote about Buttigieg last March, and I never became more favorable toward him:


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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
He's very smart and articulate, but he also looks very young, even for 37 (which is young in presidential politics even if you don't look young for your age), and has a weak chin. Seems like the kind of guy who ought to aim for a career as an appointed official in Democratic administrations, something like that.

Note that I didn't say he was a bad candidate because his position on this or that was wrong. I think that's a naive way to look at politics, beyond the broad scope of choosing one party or the other based on which one has policies you like better. Once you do that, you look for the ones you can most easily market to the low-information chumps who swing back and forth from election to election based on anything but a deep, sober, evaluation of the issues.


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Originally Posted by Jimmy Chitwood View Post
It is my belief that if a time-travelling wizard took the statements "In politics, truth isn't truth" and "I appreciate his integrity of sticking to his opinions, but they do not serve him one iota. Never have. Never will." back in time 6 months to when Democrats expected this primary season to go very differently, center-left Democrats would consider these overwhelmingly distasteful, Republicany and post-truth things to say. If the wizard added the additional context that these were statements made about the "truth" and the "opinion" that helping kids learn to read is good, even if a socialist is doing it, I'm pretty sure I would have to give you more than a few guesses before you said "oh! Those will be our opinions!"

You're just wrong. You can go all the way back to the Nineties, when I adored Bill Clinton because he was so good at snowing the rubes. You could see that Republicans knew he was full of shit, but they couldn't convince swing voters of it, and it drove the GOP up the wall with frustration. I loved it!

To sum up: you are vastly underestimating my cynicism about politics. But it's not a bitter cynicism, at least not when the Democrats are being smart politically: it's a gleeful, opportunistic cynicism. (When they give in to idealistic naivete, it does shift to frustration and bitterness.)
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  #144  
Old 02-26-2020, 06:25 PM
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Your particular individual strain of this disease is immaterial to the point I was making.
  #145  
Old 02-26-2020, 06:29 PM
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Not when you say "Slacker-analog". And I believe you are overestimating the degree to which other pragmatic center-left Dems idealistically swoon over their preferred candidates. They may resist articulating it quite as nakedly as I do, but fundamentally they are looking for a showhorse who will win the competition, not a workhorse who will be best at the job.
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Last edited by SlackerInc; 02-26-2020 at 06:31 PM.
  #146  
Old 02-26-2020, 06:37 PM
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OK
  #147  
Old 02-26-2020, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
To sum up: you are vastly underestimating my cynicism about politics. But it's not a bitter cynicism, at least not when the Democrats are being smart politically: it's a gleeful, opportunistic cynicism. (When they give in to idealistic naivete, it does shift to frustration and bitterness.)
FWIW, I'm not underestimating your cynical appreciation for opportunistic disingenuousness. I think it's a pretty important thing for everyone to remember when they read your posts.

You, on the other hand, are vastly overestimating the relevance of your opinions. Your calls for Obama to be a savior are, as I stated earlier, difficult to satirize.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 02-26-2020 at 07:23 PM.
  #148  
Old 02-26-2020, 08:15 PM
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Guarantee! Ha! Love it - I love your magical powers!
Magical indeed!
  #149  
Old 02-26-2020, 08:21 PM
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Impact on me as a center Left Democrat who has been no fan of Sanders:

Bloomberg does not have what it takes.

Biden might after all.

I am more optimistic about the prospects with a Sanders led ticket than I was.
Bloomberg might have what it takes, but he might not have the time to evolve.
  #150  
Old 02-26-2020, 08:49 PM
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I think Bloomberg might have what it takes, as far as his GOTV, ground game and general organization go. I'm not writing him off til I see his Tuesday numbers. He's built a lot of city level associations that he might have set to surprise his polling numbers next week.
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