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  #251  
Old 03-04-2020, 09:56 AM
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Bloomberg out, Warren discussing her future. The writing is on the wall. This is now a two man race. Bernie's 30% share of the vote looks great when there's 5-10 people in the race, not so much when it's only two. He's great at firing up people who aren't voting in the primaries and won't vote in November. Time to unite behind Biden and save the rest of our gunpowder for November.
  #252  
Old 03-04-2020, 10:02 AM
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Great. Not only have we shot ourselves in the head, we're congratulating ourselves for getting it on the first try.
Trump is going to get on the debate stage and have Biden for lunch, steak sauce provided by the press. I hope to God I'm wrong but I don't think so.
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  #253  
Old 03-04-2020, 10:09 AM
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I think you're giving Donnie Two Scoops way too much credit. Biden's performances have improved over the course of this campaign. Honestly, does anyone vote based on debate performance? We vote our tribes.
  #254  
Old 03-04-2020, 10:10 AM
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He had disappointed me at the beginning of the race so I was going with my second choice which was Warren but the foot is on the other hand now as she's flamed out and he's risen.
Running a campaign is no different than riding a bicycle, it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes.

I'm in a similar boat in that I think both Bernie and Biden are seriously flawed and I'm not crazy about either. Warren is the "just right" to Bernie's too hot and Biden's too cold. But she's probably going to drop out before my mail-in ballot even arrives, so, I get to hold my nose and vote for somebody I don't fully believe in. So just like 2016, I guess. Hope the general goes different this time.
  #255  
Old 03-04-2020, 10:17 AM
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...
I don't care if Biden makes verbal missteps. I do care that he comes across as an authentic caring person. ....
This.

It won't take a "revolutionary" to beat trump. It will take a decent, normal, principled human being with a heart, a brain, and courage. THAT's what's been missing from the White House!

Some of you are old enough to remember the sigh of relief that swept over the country when Gerald Ford took over from Nixon. Ford wasn't the brightest bulb in the box, he wasn't a revolutionary, or an intellectual. (After all, he did try to eat the corn husk on a tamale when he visited Texas one time. The joke of the day was, "What kind of birth control does Betty Ford use?" "She gives Gerry a stick of gum before they go to bed." If you need that explained, I'll explain it.) But he was a decent, normal guy, not a scheming, tortured psycho. And he was savvy in the ways of Congress-- very important and something Biden shares. The country doesn't need more change RIGHT NOW-- we need a return to normalcy, a return to faith in the government.
  #256  
Old 03-04-2020, 10:17 AM
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Two old white guys vs. one old orange guy.

Jeez, what a country we have.
  #257  
Old 03-04-2020, 10:38 AM
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It makes less difference now. But the fact Biden has lost more than a step mentally at the best makes it harder to press that issue against Trump. At worst he could show up a lot less on the ball *than Trump* later in the campaign or debates as he tires.

Among the things Trump has in his favor, and people who want to defeat him should not ignore his strengths, is that he just doesn't GAS on the same level a lot of politicians do. Besides his vanity wrt 'people who say nasty things about me', that is. He's basically happy and relaxed watching lots of TV in the WH. And he loves riffing in front of the big crowds he draws everywhere he chooses to go (places where he wouldn't draw them...he wouldn't go). The campaign is not very tiring and stressful for Trump IMO, just as the idea the responsibilities of the WH would make him melt down turned out a misguided notion. For Biden OTOH the campaign is obviously hard work for an already tired old man. And that could show up even more starkly later in the campaign.

That said I believe Trump would rather run against Sanders than Biden. Although he's not necessarily right. Anyway there's no law saying anyone has to support any candidate just based on uncertain (they almost always are) assessments of his or her electability.
I can respect this take but I don't necessarily believe it. It presumes that the massive turnout that showed up yesterday for a primary is going to not show up to stop Trump but did to stop Bernie.

At best the Bernie supporters don't vote but contrast that with the majority of the never Bernies who showed up yesterday not voting and either way if these groups either one don't vote in mass the country's screwed either way.

In that scenario though Biden does give us the better chance to win because I believe that there are more never Trumpers who could vote for a Biden but not a Bernie than there are Trump Basers who would peel off to support a Bernie over a Biden. There really isn't any incentive for them to do that.

Bernie has been fantastic in his current role. He has pushed the line of acceptable progressive thought in this country and that's fantastic. I heard ideas from the non Bernie candidates that would have been unheard of 4 years ago. The revolution has planted the seeds and once the Bernie backers actually grow old enough to care to vote it's going to be more likely that the revolution comes to fruition.

Last night they didn't do it and there's really no compelling reason to believe that they'd bother to show up in November either. They like the ideas but not enough to do anything productive about it en mass.

I also reject that Biden's gaffes and performance are indicative of mental deterioration. He's always been gaffe prone and never a great campaigner. Saturday was the first time he's ever one a single primary in three bites at the apple. Like with Trump, Joe's weaknesses are already baked into the cake and the public knows what they've been voting for.

It's true that Trump may be wrong to want to face Bernie but his team pulled off a victory that no one outside of his campaign gave him a chance to achieve. I really tend to respect the opinion of the team savvy enough to pull that off to the opinion of those that failed to see it coming.

Time will tell.
  #258  
Old 03-04-2020, 10:38 AM
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With all but one of the precincts reporting (but not all of the mail or provisional ballots counted), here's what I get for the California delegate counts:
(assuming I'm using the right method - I use "round to the nearest delegate, and if there are too many/too few, the candidate that was rounded by the largest value loses/gains one")

Sanders, 221
Biden, 162
Bloomberg, 24
Warren, 7
and, thanks to 8281 voters in the Palm Springs/Joshua Tree area, 1 delegate for Buttigieg
  #259  
Old 03-04-2020, 10:38 AM
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Well put, ThelmaLou.

Omar Little, true enough. One recalls the African American housekeeper’s line in the 1969 film Being There, when she sees her former colleague Chance the Gardener on TV, now as a close advisor to the President of the US.

Last edited by JKellyMap; 03-04-2020 at 10:40 AM.
  #260  
Old 03-04-2020, 10:44 AM
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1979 film, I meant.
  #261  
Old 03-04-2020, 10:54 AM
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Well the Dems have done it again. Doing what they do best. There was a flock of intriguing candidates, many promising young minds to choose from. They should have gone into a smoke-filled room and picked the best one. Instead they bow to the influence of money and end up with two old white men.

The primary system is broken. Sadly, I doubt the Dems will ever admit it.
  #262  
Old 03-04-2020, 10:55 AM
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It makes less difference now. But the fact Biden has lost more than a step mentally at the best makes it harder to press that issue against Trump. At worst he could show up a lot less on the ball *than Trump* later in the campaign or debates as he tires.

Among the things Trump has in his favor, and people who want to defeat him should not ignore his strengths, is that he just doesn't GAS on the same level a lot of politicians do. Besides his vanity wrt 'people who say nasty things about me', that is. He's basically happy and relaxed watching lots of TV in the WH. And he loves riffing in front of the big crowds he draws everywhere he chooses to go (places where he wouldn't draw them...he wouldn't go). The campaign is not very tiring and stressful for Trump IMO, just as the idea the responsibilities of the WH would make him melt down turned out a misguided notion. For Biden OTOH the campaign is obviously hard work for an already tired old man. And that could show up even more starkly later in the campaign.

That said I believe Trump would rather run against Sanders than Biden. Although he's not necessarily right. Anyway there's no law saying anyone has to support any candidate just based on uncertain (they almost always are) assessments of his or her electability.
People are so desperate for the corporate friendly moderate candidate to win that they're glossing over his flaws.

Biden does have a history of creepy behavior with women, and his mental faculties aren't what they were a decade ago. He has also never been a good speaker or good campaigner. Also he doesn't do well with voters under 40, who may not show up to vote in the general. His main appeal is he reminds people of the Obama years. Also despite Trump being the most corrupt president in history, the fact that his son got good jobs because of his dad is going to be an issue and I don't think Biden will handle it well.

I hope if he wins the primary that he wins the general and has large blue coattails, but it may be an uphill climb even with billionaires like Steyer and Bloomberg dumping giant sums of money into his campaign.
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  #263  
Old 03-04-2020, 10:58 AM
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Super Tuesday results: oligarchy wins!
  #264  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:03 AM
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Super Tuesday results: oligarchy wins!
More like: They say they want a revolution, don't you know that you can count me out.
  #265  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:06 AM
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Also he doesn't do well with voters under 40, who may not show up to vote in the general.
Of course they're not going to show up to vote in the general. They won't even show up to support their leader in the primaries and they've had two bites at that apple. Bernie has been relying on the fiction that he'll draw in the young folks but it just hasn't happened this cycle either. It is probably true that he is supported by the under 40 crowd but so what if that can't move the needle on your campaign?
  #266  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:09 AM
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Didn't every Democrat here say that they would support the Nominee, no matter who it was? So support him and play up his good points.
Remember, if the Nominee loses, you may end up having to rim Trump's hiney for the rest of your natural born lives... as will your children*.


*Internment Camps filled separately.
  #267  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:11 AM
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WesleyClark, I don’t disagree with you, except that one thing you said — “Also he doesn't do well with voters under 40, who may not show up to vote in the general” — could be construed as a plus for Biden, if relatively few of those same young folks in purple states end up voting in November no matter who’s on the ballot.

(ETA: What DisgruntledPenguin said).

Last edited by JKellyMap; 03-04-2020 at 11:12 AM.
  #268  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:14 AM
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Well the Dems have done it again. Doing what they do best. There was a flock of intriguing candidates, many promising young minds to choose from. They should have gone into a smoke-filled room and picked the best one. Instead they bow to the influence of money and end up with two old white men.

The primary system is broken. Sadly, I doubt the Dems will ever admit it.
I am not sure where you get "bow to the influence of money" The money was behind the Bloomberg and Steyer campaigns and influenced absolutely no one.

An alternate reading of ST is that African Americans (and others) were positively inclined towards Obama's vice president, and so he got the most votes.
  #269  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:14 AM
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More like: They say they want a revolution, don't you know that you can count me out.
It's gonna be alright.
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  #270  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:15 AM
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Well the Dems have done it again. Doing what they do best. There was a flock of intriguing candidates, many promising young minds to choose from. They should have gone into a smoke-filled room and picked the best one. Instead they bow to the influence of money and end up with two old white men.

The primary system is broken. Sadly, I doubt the Dems will ever admit it.
What a pleasant fiction.

Biden went into Super Tuesday dead broke, pretty much everyone writing his obituary before South Carolina, no field offices, no ads. The "influence of money" crowd were practically kicking his corpse.

The voters gave Biden his resurrection. Nothing else. Your sad, sad song is titled, "Sour Grapes." I hope you can learn a new tune before the general election.
  #271  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:17 AM
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Of course they're not going to show up to vote in the general. They won't even show up to support their leader in the primaries and they've had two bites at that apple. Bernie has been relying on the fiction that he'll draw in the young folks but it just hasn't happened this cycle either. It is probably true that he is supported by the under 40 crowd but so what if that can't move the needle on your campaign?
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WesleyClark, I don’t disagree with you, except that one thing you said — “Also he doesn't do well with voters under 40, who may not show up to vote in the general” — could be construed as a plus for Biden, if relatively few of those same young folks in purple states end up voting in November no matter who’s on the ballot.

(ETA: What DisgruntledPenguin said).
Young people showed up in force in 2018, and thats what flipped the house.

Turnout was about 16% in 2014 for 18-19, and it was 32% in 2018. Age group 30-44 went from a 30% turnout in '14 to 45% turnout in '18

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pr...2QTFQ3f-79XM_s

Granted those are midterm numbers. But the youth vote did spike a bit in 2008 when Obama ran.
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  #272  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:22 AM
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Granted those are midterm numbers. But the youth vote did spike a bit in 2008 when Obama ran.
You mean they showed up more when Biden was on the ballot. interesting.
  #273  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:23 AM
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Primaries just aren't as sexy as a general election. Who wants to make the sausage when you can just show up and eat the sausage? Old people, that's who.
  #274  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:26 AM
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....

Last edited by Boycott; 03-04-2020 at 11:28 AM. Reason: wrong thread
  #275  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:28 AM
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Another interesting factoid, is that in many States yesterday, the number of Republican voters in the primary outnumbered the Democratic voters, and there wasn't really even a reason for them to turn out.
  #276  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:29 AM
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Twitter is just full of butthurt this morning. Bernie supporters, sure, some. Mostly from Warren supporters, though. I'm gonna block everybody who doesn't agree that she's a godsend!
  #277  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:31 AM
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Michael Bloomberg Drops Out Of Presidential Race, Endorses Joe Biden

I didn't expect this this fast. Warren will surely follow. It's just Biden v Sanders, and the only question is when Bernie will stop making it all about him.
  #278  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:36 AM
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Primaries just aren't as sexy as a general election. Who wants to make the sausage when you can just show up and eat the sausage? Old people, that's who.
Then it follows that those not showing up to support Bernie are sure they're getting sausage either way or that they're perfectly happy to eat bologna instead. Either way, that's no way to run a revolution.
  #279  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:37 AM
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Michael Bloomberg Drops Out Of Presidential Race, Endorses Joe Biden

I didn't expect this this fast. Warren will surely follow. It's just Biden v Sanders, and the only question is when Bernie will stop making it all about him.
  #280  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:40 AM
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Time now for Warren and Bernie to drop out and endorse Biden. He's your last best hope for victory this fall.

He won't get my vote. He pissed me off all over again yesterday when he basically gave Beto a blow job on stage with his ridiculous anti-gun crap. I can probably live with Biden as POTUS, but I won't help him get there.
  #281  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:40 AM
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Another interesting factoid, is that in many States yesterday, the number of Republican voters in the primary outnumbered the Democratic voters, and there wasn't really even a reason for them to turn out.
I also noticed that Trump put out the call for republicans to cross over to vote for Bernie in SC and that either did not happen or had no effect. Either way, it shows that Trump supporters are not as lockstep as everyone gives them credit for. That's a plus.
  #282  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:50 AM
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Time now for Warren and Bernie to drop out and endorse Biden. He's your last best hope for victory this fall.

He won't get my vote. He pissed me off all over again yesterday when he basically gave Beto a blow job on stage with his ridiculous anti-gun crap. I can probably live with Biden as POTUS, but I won't help him get there.
Are guns a single issue litmus test for you? If so, was there ever any possibility of any Democrat getting your vote for president?
  #283  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:56 AM
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The Clyburn endorsement was a gamechanger.

Biden was going to win SC regardless. But he needed a huge win. Because his campaign was broke, he barely had any presence in the Super Tuesday states, and he had just 48 hours to get a positive press bounce to build momentum. The week before SC polls were showing a shrunken lead and polls ranged between about 6-12%. Ordinarily a good win, but not good enough to claim a comeback when you staked your candidacy on this one state. Such a result would have been good enough for Sanders to claim some sort of success in second place given he barely set foot in SC.

Clyburn endorses and turn out goes through the roof giving Biden the landslide he needed. He had a good Sunday when he appeared on all the main morning shows and did well and with Buttigieg and Klobuchar clearing the path instead of splitting the moderate vote he's now turned it around. He owes Clyburn big time.
  #284  
Old 03-04-2020, 11:56 AM
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Time now for Warren and Bernie to drop out and endorse Biden.
Bernie not going down without a fight. Even last night, he started with the Him vs. the Democratic Establishment rhetoric. If the Dems want to hold the party together, they are going to need to work out a solution with the Sanders movement to bring them into the party in a more meaningful way. Biden/Sanders 2020... otherwise a lot of Bernie's supporters will stay at home on November 3rd.
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Old 03-04-2020, 11:59 AM
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Bernie not going down without a fight. Even last night, he started with the Him vs. the Democratic Establishment rhetoric.
And today, he's got new ads showing how much Obama really, really loved him.
  #286  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:00 PM
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Biden/Sanders 2020... otherwise a lot of Bernie's supporters will stay at home on November 3rd.
Heaven forbid. That would be the Muppet Show Balcony Ticket. I like Harris or Duckworth for a VP.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:07 PM
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You mean they showed up more when Biden was on the ballot. interesting.
No, they showed up because they knew Steven Chu would be the next secretary of energy.
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  #288  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:07 PM
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Heaven forbid. That would be the Muppet Show Balcony Ticket. I like Harris or Duckworth for a VP.
Does Duckworth qualify as a natural born citizen?
  #289  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:10 PM
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Bernie not going down without a fight. Even last night, he started with the Him vs. the Democratic Establishment rhetoric. If the Dems want to hold the party together, they are going to need to work out a solution with the Sanders movement to bring them into the party in a more meaningful way. Biden/Sanders 2020... otherwise a lot of Bernie's supporters will stay at home on November 3rd.
I don't think they'll stay home but the democratic establishment does need to listen to them. People act like last night was an overwhelming blowout, but after all the ballots are counted, Biden and Sanders will be more or less tied. Biden will be in the lead, but it may be something like 650 vs 600 delegates.
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  #290  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:15 PM
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Does Duckworth qualify as a natural born citizen?
Yes, her father was a U.S. Citizen.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:16 PM
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No, they showed up because they knew Steven Chu would be the next secretary of energy.
Ahh! Chu.
  #292  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:26 PM
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<snip>... otherwise a lot of Bernie's supporters will stay at home on November 3rd.
So nothing new, then. They stayed home yesterday.

I think your information re voter turnout among Dems v. Republicans is out of date -- meaning pre-South Carolina.

Democratic voter turnout was huge yesterday, and it wasn't the Sanders base that turned out. These are new Democrats. People who have never voted before, people who have turned away from Trump.

In Virginia, Democratic primary voter turnout nearly doubled from 2016. In many other states, the turnout increased by 20-30%. Let me say it again: That's with Bernie's base staying home on the one day they really needed to show up for him.

I'd like to see the Sanders people work to unify the party, but like you, I heard Bernie immediately deploy the language of division last night. I'm sorry to say this, but when he starts using snarl terms like "Democratic establishment" and "corporate oligarchy" to describe other Democrats, he sounds exactly like Trump. He uses this Cult of Perpetual Grievance tactic in exactly the same way as Trump does. And yes, that word, "rigged." Can that be far behind? Trump's already using it.

The day Bernie used that same term in 2016 to describe what he believed was happening to him by Democrats even when it was already obvious he could not win the nomination, is the day I turned my back on him forever.

Bernie himself has created this false notion that Democrats are as underhanded and sneaky as Republicans. It persists to this day. You can see it in this thread. Now, whenever Democrats who vote do anything that is adverse to Bernie’s preferences, their motive must be because they “hate Bernie.” Not that they’re pursuing what they believe to be the best and wisest course, not because they seek party unity, not because they actually believe Biden is the best choice for the job. It’s just that they must “hate Bernie.” It sounds so much like Trump I can’t stand it.

Remember a few weeks back when Hillary Clinton said she hoped Bernie would not do a repeat of 2016 and be a spoiler in 2020? I fear she may have been prescient yet again.

"Feel the Bern," indeed.
  #293  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:37 PM
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I don't think they'll stay home but the democratic establishment does need to listen to them. People act like last night was an overwhelming blowout, but after all the ballots are counted, Biden and Sanders will be more or less tied. Biden will be in the lead, but it may be something like 650 vs 600 delegates.
They're acting like it was an overwhelming blowout because it was an overwhelming blowout.

Yesterday was supposed to be Sanders' big day. He was going to come out of Super Tuesday with such an insurmountable delegate lead, no one else would be able to catch him and he would become the presumptive nominee. Biden not only overwhelmed Sanders' projected lead. He outdistanced it handily.

And he did it with almost no money, no advertising and no ground game.

You can try to spin that like it's no big deal, but it's a big ****n' deal.

What must the "democratic establishment" do to persuade Sanders supporters that they are listening to them? Enlisting Beto O'Rourke into working on gun legislation isn't enough? Biden's promise to immediately rejoin the Paris Climate Accord means nothing? His promise to immediately roll back Trump's stupid tax cuts? What will Sanders supporters find persuasive? I'd genuinely like to know.
  #294  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:38 PM
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Last night was the best result the Democrats could have hoped for. Granted, their choices were between a flawed candidate and a disastrous one, but they picked the best hand out of a weak deck.

Biden is still an underdog to win against Trump, but I suspect the race will be close, which means Democrats should at least hold their own in he House and Senate. A Biden loss will still likely leave at least the House in Democratic hands, and Biden has a decent chance to win. So best case, Biden wins. Worst case, you have divided government and the Democrats retain some ability to keep Trump in check.

IMO, a Bernie candidacy would result in a general election blowout, which could easily result in Trump being re-elected with what he thinks is a big mandate, and a Republican House and Senate with the old school Republicans diminished and the Trumpoids ascending, That is the REAL disaster scenario, and even a right-leaning person like me thinks that would be a bad outcome.

Bernie's only chance from here on in is probably to help force a brokered convention, but that would be a disaster for Democrats and Bernie would be crushed by the super delegates and the backroom power brokers anyway. He still has a slim chance to win the delegate race, but the minute Biden gets to the point where Bernie would have to win at the convention he should shut down his campaign and help unify the party against Trump.

But I don't think he will.

Last edited by Sam Stone; 03-04-2020 at 12:41 PM.
  #295  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:39 PM
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I don't think they'll stay home but the democratic establishment does need to listen to them. People act like last night was an overwhelming blowout, but after all the ballots are counted, Biden and Sanders will be more or less tied. Biden will be in the lead, but it may be something like 650 vs 600 delegates.

Good points, Mr. Clark. It's still very close, and there aren't as many South Carolinas left for Biden to rack up big margins in.
  #296  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:44 PM
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I'd like to see the Sanders people work to unify the party, but like you, I heard Bernie immediately deploy the language of division last night. I'm sorry to say this, but when he starts using snarl terms like "Democratic establishment" and "corporate oligarchy" to describe other Democrats, he sounds exactly like Trump. He uses this Cult of Perpetual Grievance tactic in exactly the same way as Trump does. And yes, that word, "rigged." Can that be far behind? Trump's already using it.

......

It sounds so much like Trump I can’t stand it.

......

Remember a few weeks back when Hillary Clinton said she hoped Bernie would not do a repeat of 2016 and be a spoiler in 2020? I fear she may have been prescient yet again.
You seem to be forgetting that TRUMP WON, and in no small part BECAUSE he used those words.

Hillary lost in 2016 because she was a shitty candidate, not because of Bernie Sanders. Biden will, probably, lose in 2020, because he's a shitty candidate, not because of Bernie Sanders.

Let's say I plan an expedition to climb Mount Everest. I've convinced all my friends to donate money to me for supplies and travel expenses. I am an average mountaineer with enough skill to climb average sized mountains, successfully, but I'm generally acknowledged to be past my prime. I've tried several times to climb Mount Everest before, and failed every time. I manage to accumulate enough money for the expedition. I get to Base Camp. I gather all my supplies and prepare the climb. I manage to make it 85% of the way up Mount Everest, before losing my footing and falling down off of the mountain and breaking my neck.

Who's to blame? Bernie Sanders, of course!
  #297  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:45 PM
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Good points, Mr. Clark. It's still very close, and there aren't as many South Carolinas left for Biden to rack up big margins in.
Georgia, Florida, Louisiana, Delaware, and Pennsylvania should be very good for Biden.
  #298  
Old 03-04-2020, 12:53 PM
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Bernie's only chance from here on in is probably to help force a brokered convention, but that would be a disaster for Democrats and Bernie would be crushed by the super delegates and the backroom power brokers anyway. He still has a slim chance to win the delegate race, but the minute Biden gets to the point where Bernie would have to win at the convention he should shut down his campaign and help unify the party against Trump.

But I don't think he will.
Didn't he try this (sort of) at the 2016 Convention, by getting Vermont to be the last state and then personally calling for Clinton's nomination by acclamation?

I don't think he, personally, can unify the party - it's up to his supporters, and it may well be a case of, "We don't support you (as a person); we support your positions, which almost certainly won't be enacted in a Biden administration, so why should we vote for him?"

That's also why I don't see him stepping down - his supporters would never forgive him for "caving in to the moderates." What I think he needs to do once he realizes that Biden is going to be the nominee is, to explain to his supporters while he's campaigning for Biden (assuming his Senate duties let him - I expect another budget fight starting in September) that they need to vote in progressives into Congress as well, so there's a chance that at least some of the proposals will see the light of day.
  #299  
Old 03-04-2020, 01:00 PM
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What I think he needs to do once he realizes that Biden is going to be the nominee is, to explain to his supporters while he's campaigning for Biden (assuming his Senate duties let him - I expect another budget fight starting in September) that they need to vote in progressives into Congress as well, so there's a chance that at least some of the proposals will see the light of day.
He would need to do that even if he was the presumptive nominee. Being POTUS alone doesn't mean your agenda gets passed. His ideas are so far out of mainstream, it will take huge shift in congress to get even a small portion of them passed.
  #300  
Old 03-04-2020, 01:09 PM
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IMO , a Bernie candidacy would result in a general election blowout, which could easily result in Trump being re-elected with what he thinks is a big mandate, and a Republican House and Senate with the old school Republicans diminished and the Trumpoids ascending, That is the REAL disaster scenario, and even a right-leaning person like me thinks that would be a bad outcome.
Funnily enough, this is pretty much exactly, like word for word exactly what the Democrats said would happen to the Republicans when they nominated Trump. You’re replaying all the greatest hits; “They’re a spent force”, “They’ll be in the wilderness for the next twenty years”, “They’ll lose the house and the Senate”, “We’ll be able to get Garland on the SC” etc...etc... All you’ve done is switch the parties.

Sometimes, the wildcard pays off. Sometimes, the wildcard wins the Presidency, the House, the Senate, and gets to stack the SC with wildcard friendly judges. Sometimes, the wildcard destroys the other party.

You can smugly opine that no-one would vote for a socialist. But about 65 million people voted for a half-retarded reality show sex pest last time, so maybe you don’t know the electorate as well as you think you do.

If there was anything to be learned from 2016, it’s that a pissed off population will vote for a maverick over a Washington Insider, even if that maverick has no Earthly idea what he’s doing. Even if he’s a crook. Even if he grabs women by the pussy and lies with every breath that he can muster. People will pick him over the Washington Insider.

And what have the Democrats done? They’ve decided to fall in line behind yet another Washington Insider! Worse, they’re lining up behind a weaker Insider than the last one. Say what you like about Hillary Clinton but at least she was sharp. At least she was quick on her feet. At least she could speak in clear, coherent paragraphs. Joe Biden can barely speak at all. His gaffes are so frequent, and so goddamn weird that it’s hard to dispel the notion that he’s suffering from some form of dementia. Last night, at his victory speech, he got his wife confused with his sister and then promised a cure for cancer. It was pitiful.

I don’t know if Bernie could beat Trump (although the polls suggest he easily could), but I simply can’t crowbar my mind open wide enough to accommodate the notion of a Biden victory. He’s got more chance of winning Glamour’s Woman of the Year.

Last edited by Unreconstructed Man; 03-04-2020 at 01:10 PM.
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