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  #1  
Old 03-02-2020, 12:47 PM
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Klobuchar drops out and endorses Biden.


https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/polit...ign/index.html

Looks like the establishment lane is getting behind Biden.
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Old 03-02-2020, 12:49 PM
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I prefer her (and Pete) to Biden, but I get it. Go Joe!
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Old 03-02-2020, 12:50 PM
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Yup. Bernie is toast now. Good riddance.
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Old 03-02-2020, 12:52 PM
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That's good but the feather in the cap Biden needs is Bloomberg. Because the latter only joined the race because he thought Joe isn't strong enough to get over the line. If the center is trying to unite someone needs to tell Bloomberg all he is doing now is being a spoiler, and therefore helping Sanders.
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Old 03-02-2020, 12:56 PM
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I had a feeling this morning that this was the second shoe about to drop.
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Old 03-02-2020, 12:56 PM
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That’s a shame. I very much doubt Biden will beat Trump. And if he does, I very much doubt he’ll even try to implement any real change.

Possible silver lining could be if he picks Pete to be his VP and then let’s Pete run in 2024. That might work. And Pete has a more progressive platform. But still, I doubt Biden stands a chance against Trump so it’s probably all academic anyway.

Last edited by Unreconstructed Man; 03-02-2020 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 03-02-2020, 12:58 PM
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That's good but the feather in the cap Biden needs is Bloomberg. Because the latter only joined the race because he thought Joe isn't strong enough to get over the line. If the center is trying to unite someone needs to tell Bloomberg all he is doing now is being a spoiler, and therefore helping Sanders.
This. If Bloomberg stays in after Super Tuesday then I think Bernie ends up with the most pledged delegates. If Bloomberg drops out after Super Tuesday I can see Biden pulling ahead in the post Super Tuesday primaries.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:05 PM
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Thatís a shame. I very much doubt Biden will beat Trump. And if he does, I very much doubt heíll even try to implement any real change.

Possible silver lining could be if he picks Pete to be his VP and then letís Pete run in 2024. That might work. And Pete has a more progressive platform. But still, I doubt Biden stands a chance against Trump so itís probably all academic anyway.
This is interesting, and I plan on starting another thread on this topic once I have my thoughts more organized on it. From my viewpoint the only change we need is to go back to the way things were in the Obama days and then continue to make slow steady progress from there. Admittedly I did vote for Bernie (early voting in the Texas primary), but this was back when it looked like Bernie was on his way to the nomination. I only voted for him, as I previously noted, to help avoid a contested convention and the damage that would to to the efforts to oust Trump.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:05 PM
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This. If Bloomberg stays in after Super Tuesday then I think Bernie ends up with the most pledged delegates. If Bloomberg drops out after Super Tuesday I can see Biden pulling ahead in the post Super Tuesday primaries.
Isnít the outcome the same if all of Bloombergís delegates switch to Biden at the convention, and this is made clear to the public at the moment Bloomberg drops out of the race?

Granted, Bloombergís exit ASAP may have other advantages, like getting his $$ behind Biden rather than himself sooner rather than later.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:07 PM
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And the advantage for Bloomberg to getting out is that he won’t spend every debate being a punching bag. Let’s face it, there’s not many voters debating between Bernie and Biden.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:10 PM
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Thatís a shame. I very much doubt Biden will beat Trump. And if he does, I very much doubt heíll even try to implement any real change.

Possible silver lining could be if he picks Pete to be his VP and then letís Pete run in 2024. That might work. And Pete has a more progressive platform. But still, I doubt Biden stands a chance against Trump so itís probably all academic anyway.
If only we knew. People are circling the wagons around Biden because they (we?) don't believe Bernie can beat Trump. That's certainly the view in my network of friends and co-workers.

"Real change" is a good thing, but 1) what we really need to do is stop Trump and 2) Bernie advocates for real change but many of us don't think he'd accomplish much.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:10 PM
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Isnít the outcome the same if all of Bloombergís delegates switch to Biden at the convention, and this is made clear to the public at the moment Bloomberg drops out of the race?

Granted, Bloombergís exit ASAP may have other advantages, like getting his $$ behind Biden rather than himself sooner rather than later.
Same outcome in terms of Biden getting the nomination. Different outcome in terms of whether or not Bernie comes out of the convention supporting Biden or being butt hurt and telling his supporters to take their ball and go home for the general election.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:12 PM
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Bloomberg doesn't count. He's just hoping nobody notices he's the New York City Republican in the room. Why anyone takes him seriously is a mystery to me.
So we're down to Bernie (who won't get the nomination no matter how many votes he gets), Liz (who hasn't been winning), and Joe.

Dammit. I really don't want Joe, but at least he might know how to reconstruct what's left of the government if he can get it away from Il Dou'che.

Last edited by Inigo Montoya; 03-02-2020 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:13 PM
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If only we knew. People are circling the wagons around Biden because they (we?) don't believe Bernie can beat Trump. That's certainly the view in my network of friends and co-workers.

"Real change" is a good thing, but 1) what we really need to do is stop Trump and 2) Bernie advocates for real change but many of us don't think he'd accomplish much.
I think there is also a significant contingent of people who believe that Bernie will beat Trump. Those folks are more afraid of what Sanders would do than they are of what Trump is doing.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:16 PM
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Bloomberg doesn't count. He's just hoping nobody notices he's the New York City Republican in the room. Why anyone takes him seriously is a mystery to me.
So we're down to Bernie (who won't get the nomination no matter how many votes he gets), Liz (who hasn't been winning), and Joe.

Dammit. I really don't want Joe, but at least he might know how to reconstruct what's left of the government if he can get it away from Il Dou'che.
What a shining example of democracy in action.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:18 PM
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I think there is also a significant contingent of people who believe that Bernie will beat Trump. Those folks are more afraid of what Sanders would do than they are of what Trump is doing.
I haven't heard that. Maybe they don't say it out loud. (Republicans are afraid of what Bernie might do if elected, but the Democrats I know would be okay moving in that direction.)
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:22 PM
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I haven't heard that. Maybe they don't say it out loud. (Republicans are afraid of what Bernie might do if elected, but the Democrats I know would be okay moving in that direction.)
As a Dem, I'm more afraid of Bernie (or Biden, for that matter) failing to get anything done.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:23 PM
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I haven't heard that. Maybe they don't say it out loud. (Republicans are afraid of what Bernie might do if elected, but the Democrats I know would be okay moving in that direction.)
This is admittedly my guess on the motives of the voters described in 538s article on the never Bernie portion of Biden's supporters.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ly-do-mean-it/
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:27 PM
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Thatís a shame. I very much doubt Biden will beat Trump. And if he does, I very much doubt heíll even try to implement any real change.
First things first; let's get Trump out of office before we worry about implementing a progressive agenda. And besides that, you'll have to have a pretty strong majority in both houses of Congress to actually implement a lot of the more radical stuff the Democratic party is pushing, and I don't see that happening.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:29 PM
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I think there is also a significant contingent of people who believe that Bernie will beat Trump.
I find it interesting that there are significant contingents of people who believe very firmly that only Sanders or only Biden can win, but not the other. It's almost becoming an article of faith.

Sanders is too far left for the greater American public, doesn't have a strong enough appeal to blacks and once the Trump machine gets going on his socialist past, he'll be toast - Sanders can't win!

Biden is too uninspiring and a lackluster campaigner. His bland MOR platform will fail to energize the progressive base and Trump will run roughshod over him - Biden can't win!

Either of the above scenarios is possible of course. But Trump, despite his various advantages, is unusually vulnerable for an incumbent. This will likely be a close election no matter who runs and I think the Biden and Sanders partisans are getting a little too ahead of themselves in their certainty.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:32 PM
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So we're down to Bernie (who won't get the nomination no matter how many votes he gets), Liz (who hasn't been winning), and Joe.
Why do you think this? The party boss system died in 1968 and hasn't picked a nominee since. I've seen this thought before. I personally don't get it.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:32 PM
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But Trump, despite his various advantages, is unusually vulnerable for an incumbent.
I disagree. I'd say Trump is unusually bulletproof for an incumbent. Nothing sticks to him. As far as his base is concerned, the guy could rape a nun on the White House lawn, and his base will blame the nun for provoking him.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:33 PM
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I don't buy that Bernie would do better in the general election than Biden. The other Democrats pretty much handled Bernie with kid gloves to date. The Republicans have a warehouse full of oppo research on Bernie and the money to saturate television and social media with it.

If you're a Democratic Senate candidate in a purple or red state, who would you rather have at the head of your ticket- Bernie or Biden? Personally, I'd prefer not to have to continually defend the head of my ticket being a democratic socialist. Who would be more likely to have a Democratic Senate behind him- Bernie or Biden? If Bernie is nominated, not only would we see him lose and have Turtleman get his 9 right wing Supreme Court justices, we lose democracy itself. And if by some miracle Bernie did win, NONE of his proposals have a ghost of a chance of coming to fruition. All we'd get would be his wish list that the Grim Reaper in the Senate would gladly let languish and die. Jesus, this is serious shit. We HAVE to nominate and elect Biden to have any chance of getting sanity back in government.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:35 PM
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I find it interesting that there are significant contingents of people who believe very firmly that only Sanders or only Biden can win, but not the other. It's almost becoming an article of faith.

Sanders is too far left for the greater American public, doesn't have a strong enough appeal to blacks and once the Trump machine gets going on his socialist past, he'll be toast - Sanders can't win!

Biden is too uninspiring and a lackluster campaigner. His bland MOR platform will fail to energize the progressive base and Trump will run roughshod over him - Biden can't win!

Either of the above scenarios is possible of course. But Trump, despite his various advantages, is unusually vulnerable for an incumbent. This will likely be a close election no matter who runs and I think the Biden and Sanders partisans are getting a little too ahead of themselves in their certainty.
We were burned once already when Hillary lost, so some of us are still overly cautious / pessimistic about the current race.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:37 PM
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We were burned once already when Hillary lost, so some of us are still overly cautious / pessimistic about the current race.
Keep repeating: Our nominee is not Hillary.... our nominee is not Hillary.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:39 PM
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I disagree. I'd say Trump is unusually bulletproof for an incumbent. Nothing sticks to him. As far as his base is concerned, the guy could rape a nun on the White House lawn, and his base will blame the nun for provoking him.
He's unusually bulletproof with his base, I agree. But his base is less that 50% of the electorate and he is also unusually loathed by his opponents. Both unshakeable loyalty and intense revulsion translate into energized voters. It just remains to be seen which side will mobilize better.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:41 PM
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As a Dem, I'm more afraid of Bernie (or Biden, for that matter) failing to get anything done.
I don't know about what exactly you are speaking, but I agree with the concept as far as health care. I maintain the Bernie won't get anything done on health care if he sticks to his plan, even if he does get the House and Senate. Too many people, even Democrats, like the system as it exists. He won't have the votes for radical change he wants.
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Old 03-02-2020, 02:02 PM
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I disagree. I'd say Trump is unusually bulletproof for an incumbent. Nothing sticks to him. As far as his base is concerned, the guy could rape a nun on the White House lawn, and his base will blame the nun for provoking him.
His base is loud but small.

Any *normal* president with this economy would be at 60% approval. He has never broken 50%.
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Old 03-02-2020, 02:04 PM
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Why do you think this? The party boss system died in 1968 and hasn't picked a nominee since. I've seen this thought before. I personally don't get it.
It's simply that the Bernie crowd is a haven for conspiracy theorists. Everything that doesn't break his way, it's an establishment plot. When things go his way, it means he thwarted a plot. Last election when it was one on one, the Dems were trying to coronate Hillary. This time, the Dems purposely "flooded the field" to fuck with Bernie, natch.

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Old 03-02-2020, 02:17 PM
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I don’t think that the Bernie supporters are wrong. The DNC has clearly decided that Biden is the best choice to beat Bernie and is putting a lot of pressure on candidates to drop out and endorse him. I think if the Coronavirus situation continues to worsen, Biden has a better chance against Trump. In times of chaos, people revert to what is familiar and safe. Radical changes can wait for more secure times.
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Old 03-02-2020, 02:17 PM
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It's simply that the Bernie crowd is a haven for conspiracy theorists. Everything that doesn't break his way, it's an establishment plot. When things go his way, it means he thwarted a plot. Last election when it was one on one, the Dems were trying to coronate Hillary. This time, the Dems purposely "flooded the field" to fuck with Bernie, natch.
You're in on it, aren't you?

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Old 03-02-2020, 02:18 PM
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Amy and Pete set to endorse Uncle Joe:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...-endorse-biden

Amy might have helped Biden more by winning Minnesota.
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Old 03-02-2020, 02:23 PM
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If Joe can unite Amy and Pete then there is no doubt in my mind that he can unite America.
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Old 03-02-2020, 02:26 PM
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You're in on it, aren't you?
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Old 03-02-2020, 02:33 PM
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If Joe can unite Amy and Pete then there is no doubt in my mind that he can unite America.
Iím sure heíll perform just as well as he did every other freaking time he ran for President. Heís a horrible candidate and Donald Trump is going to beat him like drum.

His campaign slogan should be ďI suck, but whatcha gonna do - vote Republican?Ē Which seems to be the DNCís motto.

I was, and still marginally am, for Bloomberg. But Bernie would be my second choice.

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Old 03-02-2020, 02:34 PM
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Why do you think this? The party boss system died in 1968 and hasn't picked a nominee since. I've seen this thought before. I personally don't get it.
Let's see what happens, I'll shut up about it in the meantime. I propose one of us will be wrong?
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Old 03-02-2020, 02:36 PM
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Guess Biden promised Amy Attorney General. Pete probably gets Commerce or Labor. or Treasury. Not that it matters since Biden can't win.
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Old 03-02-2020, 02:37 PM
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It's simply that the Bernie crowd is a haven for conspiracy theorists. Everything that doesn't break his way, it's an establishment plot. When things go his way, it means he thwarted a plot. Last election when it was one on one, the Dems were trying to coronate Hillary. This time, the Dems purposely "flooded the field" to fuck with Bernie, natch.
While I neither support nor reject your observation, I would like to point out I am not one of them. The party wants who they want, and that person gets the nod. I don't know. Maybe they're afraid of another Carter.
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Old 03-02-2020, 02:39 PM
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I think the super delegates probably say Sanders cannot win enough black votes . But in the deep south not sure Jesus would win if he ran as a Dem.
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Old 03-02-2020, 02:44 PM
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Not that it matters since Biden can't win.
who the hell knows? I would have bet my house in 2016 that Trump couldn't win.

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Old 03-02-2020, 02:47 PM
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While I neither support nor reject your observation, I would like to point out I am not one of them. The party wants who they want, and that person gets the nod. I don't know. Maybe they're afraid of another Carter.
The irony of that is Carter is a superdelegate.
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Old 03-02-2020, 02:51 PM
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Keep repeating: Our nominee is not Hillary.... our nominee is not Hillary.
Not Hillary, not Al Gore, not John Kerry. But it might as well be. Democrats still canít learn to pick someone that people want to vote for. And they still act like winning the popular vote means something, which it doesnít.
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Old 03-02-2020, 02:53 PM
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B Clinton and Obama won 4 times but they were helped by a down economy in their first runs.
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Old 03-02-2020, 03:05 PM
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Not Hillary, not Al Gore, not John Kerry. But it might as well be. Democrats still canít learn to pick someone that people want to vote for. And they still act like winning the popular vote means something, which it doesnít.
Democrats have won the popular vote in six of the last seven elections. As a trend that has to count for something.

The two Republican presidents in that time got in by a razor thin margin. George W Bush by about 600 votes in Florida and a 5-4 ruling by the Supreme Court. Donald Trump by 70,000 votes across three swing states in the most unprecedented election ever. Comey's decision to reopen the investigation into Hillary's emails a week before election day was huge because it added fuel to the fire for Trump. Russian interference and hacking did happen.

The people were clearly split between Bush/Gore and Clinton/Trump.

They certainly weren't enamoured at all by Bush Sr in 92', Bob Dole, John McCain and Mitt Romney. Why didn't Republicans pick someone the people wanted to vote for? I only ever hear this criticism about Democrats.
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Old 03-02-2020, 03:06 PM
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And they still act like winning the popular vote means something, which it doesnít.
Which surprises then me that you'd put Bernie as your number 2. Bernie can probably win the popular vote against Trump, but I really don't see how he wins the electoral vote (places like Pennsylvania, Florida, Michigan, Wisconsin are going to have a harder time voting for Bernie than they would Biden).

The industrial midwest is often the first place to feel economic turmoil when it hits. I don't see people there voting in the general election for the guy basically campaigning on turning the economy upside down. Guys like Biden and Bloomberg? Sure, they're the stable choice. And I think after four years of this current roller coaster, people (in those places where the electoral college is in the balance) may just be seeking out stability.
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Old 03-02-2020, 03:11 PM
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I think the super delegates probably say Sanders cannot win enough black votes . But in the deep south not sure Jesus would win if he ran as a Dem.
It's not the Deep South that is a concern re: the black vote, but the Rust Belt north. Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin primarily. Also to a slightly lesser extent the purplish south of North Carolina and Florida.
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Old 03-02-2020, 03:16 PM
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Keep repeating: Our nominee is not Hillary.... our nominee is not Hillary.
When it looked like Trump would win the nomination in 2016, I got very scared because I thought neither of the Democratic choices were the right candidate against Trump. My concerns about Sanders have only gotten stronger this time around. I'm definitely not of the opinion that Sanders would have beaten Trump in 2016.

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If Joe can unite Amy and Pete then there is no doubt in my mind that he can unite America.
Seriously!

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B Clinton and Obama won 4 times but they were helped by a down economy in their first runs.
Depending on the course of the pandemic, Dems might get the same advantage this time. Even if it doesn't take a big toll here, there could be ongoing economic effects between now and November, or even a turn back toward normalcy in the summer but then another hit from renewed outbreaks in the fall. I'm not hoping for that -- just noting that it could break in Democrats' favor, plus there is well-deserved criticism of Trump's handling of it. If it creates drag on the economy, Trump could take some blame for the poor response.
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Old 03-02-2020, 03:24 PM
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Not Hillary, not Al Gore, not John Kerry. But it might as well be. Democrats still can’t learn to pick someone that people want to vote for. And they still act like winning the popular vote means something, which it doesn’t.
Exactly. That’s obviously why Bernie getting an extra ten million votes in California and New York means nothing, while Biden getting an extra ten THOUSAND votes in Wisconsin or Pennsylvania means EVERYTHING.

ETA: Ninja’d by Happy L

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Old 03-02-2020, 03:33 PM
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If Joe can unite Amy and Pete then there is no doubt in my mind that he can unite America.
Joe didn't unite Amy and Pete. Amy and Pete were (I'm sure) offered tons of incentives to drop out. Maybe the democrats said they'd prioritize pet projects they have, or that they'd help them with future campaigns, or that they'd get very cushy high ranking private sector jobs.

They didn't fall to their knees and realize uncle Joe would save America.

Also Biden is dangerously naive which is a serious problem. He thinks republicans will work together with democrats in good faith to solve Americas problems. Thats like the leader of the NAACP thinking he can work with the KKK to work towards civil rights in Mississippi in the 1940s. Its pretty pathetic. I 'wish' the GOP would work with democrats to solve problems, but the GOP is a party that is beholden to their reactionary, neofascist white nationalist base.

He can't unite America. The GOP will hate whoever is put up and half the democratic party will vote for him but they'll do it assuming he will be incompetent and gullible as president. That isn't even adding in the fact that Biden will probably win fewer votes and delegates in the primary, but the DNC will give him the nomination anyway.
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 03-02-2020 at 03:35 PM.
  #50  
Old 03-02-2020, 03:34 PM
Dallas Jones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann Hedonia View Post
Not Hillary, not Al Gore, not John Kerry. But it might as well be. Democrats still canít learn to pick someone that people want to vote for. And they still act like winning the popular vote means something, which it doesnít.
Yes, the Democratic party just sucks at picking a strong candidate. They must check off all of the required issue boxes first. This is why there was such a large field of candidates. Appeal to all, disagree about nothing.

And as these candidates drop out and throw their perceived support to Biden they are clearly showing a distain for Bernie. Saying that you endorse a previous rival does not mean that your former supporters are going to listen to you. The votes do not move in regards to your wishes. It is not like Pete or Amyís voter support will go with their endorsement of Biden.

Bernie will be shut out again and the conventional wisdom is that in the end his supporters will all suck it up and vote for the DNC party candidate. I think that this expectation is wildly optimistic. Bernieís supporters are going to be even more pissed than the last time they perceived a shut out.

What we are seeing is the re-election of Donald Trump. Biden is a very weak candidate. Bernie supporters are going to leave him high and dry. And he will get trounced in the election.

I am voting for Dukakis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdhDVXU9vrc
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