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Old 03-04-2020, 11:40 AM
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Unifying the Democratic party at the convention


After Super Tues, it appears that Biden has a significantly greater chance at a plurality of delegates than Bernie, with no other candidate having any chance at all. I'm a Bernie supporter and thus disappointed (and I'll still be rooting for the somewhat low chance of a Bernie comeback), but my disappointment is irrelevant for this thread. I think Biden is a weak candidate and there is a real risk of him losing a significant amount of Bernie supporters to staying home or even voting for Trump for spite (I plan to vote for the Democratic nominee).

It still appears that there is a relatively high chance that Biden fails to get a majority of delegates. I think this could be a positive thing for the prospect of unifying the party, as follows:

Let's assume Biden ends up with ~40-45% of delegates, and Bernie ends up with ~30% or so, with other candidates having all the rest. Biden could almost certainly press for the other candidates' delegates to be released to support him, and it's very likely enough of them would be fine with this (after the first vote) to get him a majority, even without superdelegates. But I don't think this would be the right path. I think the best course of action would be to bring in Bernie and his team and negotiate on what it would take for them to support Biden's candidacy. This might mean a VP that is acceptable to Bernie (perhaps Stacey Abrams?), along with some cabinet spots for Bernie allies (and maybe Warren too, for extra unity), and maybe some policy concessions (maybe a more robust public option, postal banks, or all the other things that they're not terribly far apart on). I'm sure that the trolls among Bernie's supporters (a very, very small number, relatively speaking) would still be unhappy (they're trolls, after all), but I believe the great majority are much more like me, and would be much more willing to accept and support Biden beyond merely at the ballot box if we felt that our candidate, with a strong 2nd place performance, had very significant input into the Biden administration and campaign.

The alternative -- ignoring the Bernie supporters and pushing through with other delegates would almost certainly work to get Biden the nomination, but I think it would result in a much lower likelihood of winning in the general. Like it or not, many, many Democrats (millions?) support Bernie, and the nominee will need the support of most of them to beat Trump.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:02 PM
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After the slam in the face that Hillary took in 2016, the Democratic Party definitely realizes that some sort of brokered solution will need to take place, and before the convention.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:09 PM
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They're both polarising candidates. I believe there's only one democrat who could possibly unite the factions in the party to get out and vote and that's Michelle Obama. Young people look up to her and older people respect her.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:10 PM
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Are you suggesting Mobama as Biden's running mate? How does that appease the Sander's movement?
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:11 PM
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The ONLY thing "unifying" Dems (and, I would add, MOST people with BRAINS and COMMON SENSE) is the drive to defeat Mango Mussolini this November. Outside of that, Dems don't "unify" for squat.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:13 PM
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They're both polarising candidates. I believe there's only one democrat who could possibly unite the factions in the party to get out and vote and that's Michelle Obama. Young people look up to her and older people respect her.
"Verbal gaffe" Joe doesn't impress me in the least and if Bernie gets the nod the RePUBEs will do everything they can to turn people off to him from the jump. Elizabeth Warren is as good as out which means that Dems - and the country as a whole - lose.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:13 PM
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Are you suggesting Mobama as Biden's running mate? How does that appease the Sander's movement?
No I mean Michelle Obama swoops in to lead the ticket at the convention if the Biden/Sanders camps are still at war.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:17 PM
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No I mean Michelle Obama swoops in to lead the ticket at the convention if the Biden/Sanders camps are still at war.
You don't follow politics much do you? Sounds great as a movie plot.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:20 PM
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You don't follow politics much do you? Sounds great as a movie plot.
I follow politics quite a bit.

But a man can dream when the nightmare is Biden turning off young voters and stumbling through to November or Bernie alienating allies he needs and the election becomes a referendum on socialism.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:23 PM
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How about telling them to fuck themselves with a rusty hook?

We tried to negotiate with hostage takers in 2016 and it didn’t work. Remember how Bernie got to name a bunch of people to the platform committee? He chose Cornel West who then endorsed Jill Stein.

Biden can pick his own VP, Bernie can give a speech among with all the also ran candidates. I expect they’ll be a bone tossed to AOC to speak as well, an excellent excuse for a beer run and bathroom break.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:30 PM
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How about telling them to fuck themselves with a rusty hook?
If you aren't interested in their votes, perhaps. I'd prefer if as many Democrats (and others!) as possible vote for the Democratic nominee, but YMMV.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:43 PM
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If you aren't interested in their votes, perhaps. I'd prefer if as many Democrats (and others!) as possible vote for the Democratic nominee, but YMMV.
I am NOT playing Charlie Brown!!! Lucy will still pull that football away.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:45 PM
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I follow politics quite a bit.

But a man can dream
I think the OP was seeking real ideas that could help...which I do believe the Party leaders will actually take steps to achieve....the voters may not be happy...as noted by the breakdown of thoughts in this thread only an hour in...
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:47 PM
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I'm pretty sure that many of the exit polls yesterday included a question something like:

Are you voting for the candidate you think:
a) can beat Donald Trump in November, or
b) aligns with your ideals and identity the best?

IIRC, majority of voters picked A.
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Old 03-04-2020, 12:49 PM
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Let's assume Biden ends up with ~40-45% of delegates, and Bernie ends up with ~30% or so, with other candidates having all the rest. Biden could almost certainly press for the other candidates' delegates to be released to support him, and it's very likely enough of them would be fine with this (after the first vote) to get him a majority, even without superdelegates. But I don't think this would be the right path. I think the best course of action would be to bring in Bernie and his team and negotiate on what it would take for them to support Biden's candidacy. This might mean a VP that is acceptable to Bernie (perhaps Stacey Abrams?), along with some cabinet spots for Bernie allies (and maybe Warren too, for extra unity), and maybe some policy concessions (maybe a more robust public option, postal banks, or all the other things that they're not terribly far apart on). I'm sure that the trolls among Bernie's supporters (a very, very small number, relatively speaking) would still be unhappy (they're trolls, after all), but I believe the great majority are much more like me, and would be much more willing to accept and support Biden beyond merely at the ballot box if we felt that our candidate, with a strong 2nd place performance, had very significant input into the Biden administration and campaign.

The alternative -- ignoring the Bernie supporters and pushing through with other delegates would almost certainly work to get Biden the nomination, but I think it would result in a much lower likelihood of winning in the general. Like it or not, many, many Democrats (millions?) support Bernie, and the nominee will need the support of most of them to beat Trump.
What I hear you suggesting is that Biden should make promises he knows he cannot keep in order to get as many Sanders supporters as possible to vote for him in the general election against Trump. I'm okay with that. Beating Trump is infinitely more important.
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Old 03-04-2020, 01:01 PM
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What I hear you suggesting is that Biden should make promises he knows he cannot keep in order to get as many Sanders supporters as possible to vote for him in the general election against Trump. I'm okay with that. Beating Trump is infinitely more important.
The policy stuff is just about what he would advocate for -- I'm sure Bernie knows passing this stuff is quite unlikely, except maybe for a few things done using the processes that can bypass the filibuster. The personnel stuff would be promises meant to be kept.
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Old 03-04-2020, 01:09 PM
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Let's assume Biden ends up with ~40-45% of delegates, and Bernie ends up with ~30% or so, with other candidates having all the rest.
Where are the rest of those delegates going?

There are 3979 total delegates, 1991 needed for the nomination. A total of 105 are pledged to people other than Biden/Sanders and I can't see many more going to them. There's no way the delegate count can end up like you are saying. Only 3% of the delegates are going to anyone beside Biden/Sanders. The worst case scenario is %49 vs %48, with the remaining 3% to the folks who've dropped out.

This ignores the super delegates for now. Or am I missing something in your scenario?
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Old 03-04-2020, 01:15 PM
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What I hear you suggesting is that Biden should make promises he knows he cannot keep in order to get as many Sanders supporters as possible to vote for him in the general election against Trump. I'm okay with that. Beating Trump is infinitely more important.
But Bernie's followers are not big on compromise, and as seen yesterday, many of the young people who are Bernie supporters did not show up to vote. It was worse than 2016 for youth turnout.

And as for Bernie and Biden being two wings of the same party that could unite, I think they are two separate parties under the Democratic umbrella, not the same thing.
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Old 03-04-2020, 01:16 PM
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Where are the rest of those delegates going?

There are 3979 total delegates, 1991 needed for the nomination. A total of 105 are pledged to people other than Biden/Sanders and I can't see many more going to them. There's no way the delegate count can end up like you are saying. Only 3% of the delegates are going to anyone beside Biden/Sanders. The worst case scenario is %49 vs %48, with the remaining 3% to the folks who've dropped out.

This ignores the super delegates for now. Or am I missing something in your scenario?
I believe it's greater than 3% (and Warren is still in the race with the potential to get more delegates), but my estimate probably leaves too many delegates on the table. In any case, my recommendation applies to scenarios in which Biden has more than 50% even on the first vote -- it'd be best for his chances in the general election if he chooses to bring in Bernie to have input on things like VP choice, cabinet, and even policy choices, rather than ignore the Bernie faction and press on. IMO, of course.
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Old 03-04-2020, 01:19 PM
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And as for Bernie and Biden being two wings of the same party that could unite, I think they are two separate parties under the Democratic umbrella, not the same thing.
Which plays to four more years of Trumpville.
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Old 03-04-2020, 01:27 PM
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The policy stuff is just about what he would advocate for -- I'm sure Bernie knows passing this stuff is quite unlikely, except maybe for a few things done using the processes that can bypass the filibuster. The personnel stuff would be promises meant to be kept.
Bernie's really going to have to sell it. Do you think Bernie can and will sell it to his supporters?
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Old 03-04-2020, 01:34 PM
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Bernie's really going to have to sell it. Do you think Bernie can and will sell it to his supporters?
I hope so. We'll see if the Biden camp wants to try it, and we'll see it Bernie agrees to something like it, and then we'll see if Bernie can successfully sell it to most of his supporters. No guarantees, but ignoring the Bernie faction risks losing a big chunk of them for the general election.

The VP would be key, especially because Biden is so old. Picking a VP that Bernie and his supporters like (and one that endorses most of Bernie's major policies) is pretty much picking the next Democratic candidate, should Biden win the general. That could be pretty significant.
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Old 03-04-2020, 01:50 PM
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I believe it's greater than 3% (and Warren is still in the race with the potential to get more delegates), but my estimate probably leaves too many delegates on the table.
It's between 3 and 4 percent. I don't see where Warren is going to pick up more delegates at this point.

But accepting your scenario, the super delegates kick in and give the race easily to Biden.
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Old 03-04-2020, 01:54 PM
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It's between 3 and 4 percent. I don't see where Warren is going to pick up more delegates at this point.

But accepting your scenario, the super delegates kick in and give the race easily to Biden.
But then what? Do they ignore the Bernie supporters, or do they try and give them a stake in the candidate and thus the general election?
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Old 03-04-2020, 02:04 PM
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Are you suggesting Mobama as Biden's running mate? How does that appease the Sander's movement?
I don't know how it appeases the Bernie Bros at all, but my 2 cents is that it would be neat for the 2008-2012 "Obama-Biden" ticket to be followed up by a "Biden-Obama" ticket.
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Old 03-04-2020, 02:09 PM
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But then what? Do they ignore the Bernie supporters, or do they try and give them a stake in the candidate and thus the general election?
Well, Biden can't select another Tim Kaine. But it also can't be someone who is such a sharp contrast to him that it would look like an obvious ploy. There is no possible running mate chemistry between Sanders and Abrams. How would it even pass the sniff test with Biden and Abrams when Sanders has shown so much difficulty attracting young black voters? Biden and Booker, sure. Rolls right off the tongue. Try it.
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Old 03-04-2020, 02:15 PM
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I would hope that Bernie know that if he wants to come even close to getting policies he approves of passed, he will need to bring it. If Biden is the nominee, it is up to Bernie to get his supporters on board. he know that his options are to go all in for the Democratic candidate or have four more years of Trump. He is not stupid. He is not going to delay his support like last time.
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Old 03-04-2020, 02:18 PM
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Well, Biden can't select another Tim Kaine. But it also can't be someone who is such a sharp contrast to him that it would look like an obvious ploy. There is no possible running mate chemistry between Sanders and Abrams. How would it even pass the sniff test with Biden and Abrams when Sanders has shown so much difficulty attracting young black voters? Biden and Booker, sure. Rolls right off the tongue. Try it.
Booker would do nothing to bring in the Bernie crowd. Abrams was endorsed by Our Revolution and, IIRC, supported Bernie in '16. Also, I believe you're wrong about "young black voters" -- Bernie's problem is with older black voters, but IIRC he does quite well with young black voters.

I don't understand your objection here to Abrams. And if you don't like her, do you have a suggestion that could help bring in Bernie and his supporters? Or do you not believe there's any value in trying to bring those voters in?

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Old 03-04-2020, 02:22 PM
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With Bloomberg out, I doubt that we will reach a brokered convention. There are 148 delegates pledged to candidates other than Biden or Sanders. The total delegate count is 4,051, so about 3.65% who are unavailable to the two front runners on the first round. Given that Elizabeth Warren is the only other major candidate still remaining and seemingly unlikely to win more delegates, it now seems unlikely to me that we'll have a contested convention. I think the only way to get there would be if the states that haven't voted yet end up with something like a 52/48 split in favor of Sanders. That could happen, but it doesn't seem very likely at this point.
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Old 03-04-2020, 02:25 PM
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Biden-Yang
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Old 03-04-2020, 02:26 PM
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I would hope that Bernie know that if he wants to come even close to getting policies he approves of passed, he will need to bring it. If Biden is the nominee, it is up to Bernie to get his supporters on board. he know that his options are to go all in for the Democratic candidate or have four more years of Trump. He is not stupid. He is not going to delay his support like last time.
It's not just about Bernie, it's also about Biden. I believe that, if he wins the nomination, Biden's best chance to win the general election is to do everything he can to bring all the Bernie supporters onboard. I hope they all vote for the nominee regardless of who it is, but the best chance of making sure that happens is for the winner to reach out with significant concessions to the loser, IMO.

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With Bloomberg out, I doubt that we will reach a brokered convention. There are 148 delegates pledged to candidates other than Biden or Sanders. The total delegate count is 4,051, so about 3.65% who are unavailable to the two front runners on the first round. Given that Elizabeth Warren is the only other major candidate still remaining and seemingly unlikely to win more delegates, it now seems unlikely to me that we'll have a contested convention. I think the only way to get there would be if the states that haven't voted yet end up with something like a 52/48 split in favor of Sanders. That could happen, but it doesn't seem very likely at this point.
You might be right, but my suggestion would apply to a non-brokered convention too. The idea is that Biden should do everything possible to bring the Bernie voters onboard, because he's much less likely to win if a very large chunk of them stay home or vote Trump.
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Old 03-04-2020, 02:36 PM
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It's not just about Bernie, it's also about Biden. I believe that, if he wins the nomination, Biden's best chance to win the general election is to do everything he can to bring all the Bernie supporters onboard. I hope they all vote for the nominee regardless of who it is, but the best chance of making sure that happens is for the winner to reach out with significant concessions to the loser, IMO.



You might be right, but my suggestion would apply to a non-brokered convention too. The idea is that Biden should do everything possible to bring the Bernie voters onboard, because he's much less likely to win if a very large chunk of them stay home or vote Trump.
I think it's likely Biden already promised Klobuchar the VP spot. Assuming he hasn't, I have no problems with Abrams as a running mate. Either way, I think Bernie himself will determine how his voters react. My hope is that Biden would approach it the old fashioned way, and ask Bernie for his support rather than imply that it should be given just because he's the nominee.
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Old 03-04-2020, 02:36 PM
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Booker would do nothing to bring in the Bernie crowd. Abrams was endorsed by Our Revolution and, IIRC, supported Bernie in '16. Also, I believe you're wrong about "young black voters" -- Bernie's problem is with older black voters, but IIRC he does quite well with young black voters.

I don't understand your objection here to Abrams. And if you don't like her, do you have a suggestion that could help bring in Bernie and his supporters? Or do you not believe there's any value in trying to bring those voters in?
I like Stacy a lot. But I also think she lacks experience to be named VP. I'm also not sure about the kind of political running mate symbiotic vibe she'd have with Biden. But I'm open to being proven wrong on both counts.

I guess I need to see Bernie's numbers wrt young black voters. I'm sure they are out there, somewhere, or will be shortly.
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Old 03-04-2020, 02:42 PM
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I like Stacy a lot. But I also think she lacks experience to be named VP. I'm also not sure about the kind of political running mate symbiotic vibe she'd have with Biden. But I'm open to being proven wrong on both counts.
Okay. Do you have a different suggestion to try and unify with Bernie and his supporters? Or do you think there's no point in trying to do that?

Quote:
I guess I need to see Bernie's numbers wrt young black voters. I'm sure they are out there, somewhere, or will be shortly.
https://www.vox.com/2020/3/3/2116390...bernie-sanders

"Much like in South Carolina, Sanders appeared to do better with younger black voters in the states compared to older voters. While he still lost among black voters ages 30 to 44 in Virginia, for example, he lagged by 11 points among the group. Among black voters 45 to 59 in the state, meanwhile, he lagged by 50 points."

This is only VA, but that's what I could find in a few minutes of googling. He's not winning younger black voters, but he's competitive -- it's with older black voters that he gets blown out.
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Old 03-04-2020, 02:53 PM
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Stacy Abrams is a no-go. Sorry, but she’s been playing footsie too long. She was coyly suggesting she’d take Bloomberg’s VP slot, she’s passed up two senate chances.

Nice run for Governor, but it’s not enough.
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Old 03-04-2020, 02:57 PM
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Okay. Do you have a different suggestion to try and unify with Bernie and his supporters? Or do you think there's no point in trying to do that?
Honestly, if we're talking about a Come to Jesus moment for the Biden and Sanders camps, it's Sanders that has to do the heavy lift here. Because his most strident supporters, and Sanders to the extent that he bears some responsibility, has done the bulk of the damage in driving the wedge between the "revolutionaries" and the "moderates".

So Sanders will have to symbolically bend his knee at some point and command his followers to do the same. I'm skeptical that Sanders will muster the humility to do so. Here again, I'm open to being proven wrong.



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https://www.vox.com/2020/3/3/2116390...bernie-sanders

"Much like in South Carolina, Sanders appeared to do better with younger black voters in the states compared to older voters. While he still lost among black voters ages 30 to 44 in Virginia, for example, he lagged by 11 points among the group. Among black voters 45 to 59 in the state, meanwhile, he lagged by 50 points."

This is only VA, but that's what I could find in a few minutes of googling. He's not winning younger black voters, but he's competitive -- it's with older black voters that he gets blown out.
I appreciate your optimism but, "Better with" is not "majority of".
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Old 03-04-2020, 03:09 PM
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Honestly, if we're talking about a Come to Jesus moment for the Biden and Sanders camps, it's Sanders that has to do the heavy lift here. Because his most strident supporters, and Sanders to the extent that he bears some responsibility, has done the bulk of the damage in driving the wedge between the "revolutionaries" and the "moderates".



So Sanders will have to symbolically bend his knee at some point and command his followers to do the same. I'm skeptical that Sanders will muster the humility to do so. Here again, I'm open to being proven wrong.



I appreciate your optimism but, "Better with" is not "majority of".
I don't care about who bears responsibility (and I strongly disagree with you about who bears it, but it's irrelevant) - I care about a strategy that might have a hope of bringing in as many Democratic voters as possible. I don't think Bernie voters will automatically do what Bernie says - if Biden wants those voters, and IMO he's very foolish if he doesn't, then he might need to actually do something to appeal to them. I think it's very dumb to worry about things like who bears responsibility as compared to how do we get all these voters.
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Old 03-04-2020, 03:18 PM
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I don't care about who bears responsibility (and I strongly disagree with you about who bears it, but it's irrelevant) - I care about a strategy that might have a hope of bringing in as many Democratic voters as possible. I don't think Bernie voters will automatically do what Bernie says - if Biden wants those voters, and IMO he's very foolish if he doesn't, then he might need to actually do something to appeal to them. I think it's very dumb to worry about things like who bears responsibility as compared to how do we get all these voters.
You're saying, "Let's find a way to bring everybody together", but what you're really saying is the moderates have to make an appeal to the revolutionaries. Even though the revolution didn't quite go their way.

But fine. Realpolitik. I get it.

Do you think (if it did not lead to losing a dem senate seat) that choosing a Bernie-lite like Elizabeth Warren for a running mate would satisfy the majority of Sanders voters? I mean, in the spirit of coming together in compromise. I think Biden and Warren would make a very simpatico team. Don't you?
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Old 03-04-2020, 03:23 PM
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Bernie-or-Busters are clustered in blue states (and specific bits of red ones), while Biden-or-Busters — people who voted for Trump or not at all in 2016, and will vote for Biden in November but would vote for Trump or not at all if Bernie were the Dem candidate — are clustered in the places that matter — the purple places, like the small Midwestern city I live in.

So, if telling Bernie and his bros to fuck off means 10 fewer Biden votes from the first group, but 10 more from the second, I’m going with “fuck off.”

The math is even easier than this, though, because the second group actually VOTES more reliably than the first, period.

BUT, the nice, socialist-leaning, compromising, inclusive Democrat (and small-d democrat ) in me sympathizes with the OP’s proposal. Despite the math, I’ll probably end up bending over backwards to stroke the Bernie bros’ hurt feelings. After all, I agree with nearly all their GOALS, wholeheartedly.

Last edited by JKellyMap; 03-04-2020 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 03-04-2020, 03:34 PM
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You're saying, "Let's find a way to bring everybody together", but what you're really saying is the moderates have to make an appeal to the revolutionaries. Even though the revolution didn't quite go their way.



But fine. Realpolitik. I get it.



Do you think (if it did not lead to losing a dem senate seat) that choosing a Bernie-lite like Elizabeth Warren for a running mate would satisfy the majority of Sanders voters? I mean, in the spirit of coming together in compromise. I think Biden and Warren would make a very simpatico team. Don't you?
If the winner wants to maximize his chance in the general, he needs to do everything he can to get those voters. It'd be the same if Bernie wins too. I hope and expect the runner up to endorse, but it's action and not endorsement that has the best chance to get those voters, IMO.

I'd love Warren as VP (or even better, Prez), but I don't think that would appeal to the angry Bernie voters I'm worried about. If getting them is as important as I think it is, the VP pick should be someone that they have no beef with - and IMO Abrams fits that bill. I'm not sure who else does.
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Old 03-04-2020, 03:35 PM
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The math is even easier than this, though, because the second group actually VOTES more reliably than the first, period.
Just because the second group is older. Nothing to do with perceived strokes or slights to the first groupís Bernie-ism.

Last edited by JKellyMap; 03-04-2020 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 03-04-2020, 03:36 PM
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Bernie-or-Busters are clustered in blue states (and specific bits of red ones), while Biden-or-Busters — people who voted for Trump or not at all in 2016, and will vote for Biden in November but would vote for Trump or not at all if Bernie were the Dem candidate — are clustered in the places that matter — the purple places, like the small Midwestern city I live in.

So, if telling Bernie and his bros to fuck off means 10 fewer Biden votes from the first group, but 10 more from the second, I’m going with “fuck off.”

The math is even easier than this, though, because the second group actually VOTES more reliably than the first, period.

BUT, the nice, socialist-leaning, compromising, inclusive Democrat (and small-d democrat ) in me sympathizes with the OP’s proposal. Despite the math, I’ll probably end up bending over backwards to stroke the Bernie bros’ hurt feelings. After all, I agree with nearly all their GOALS, wholeheartedly.
I haven't seen any reason to believe that someone like Abrams as VP would lose Biden any voters. Do you think there are a significant number of Biden voters who would stay home if the VP pick was Abrams (or some other person well liked by Bernie voters)?
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Old 03-04-2020, 03:40 PM
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Excellent question! I can literally ask my neighbors this. Iíll get back to you in a few days with some data!

Iím guessing having Abrams on a Biden ticket would scare away only about 10% of these voters. Warm piss and all that.
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Old 03-04-2020, 03:42 PM
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What's scary about Abrams?
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Old 03-04-2020, 03:50 PM
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What's scary about Abrams?
Not scary to me, of course. I hope I donít have to spell that out. Iíd love to vote for her as PRESIDENT.

But the neighbors Iím taking about ó the ones we need to have vote for Biden ó a few of them are just racist enough and/or just misogynistic enough that this would turn them away.

Of those, Iíd say an even smaller group would be okay with an African American (like Booker) or a woman (like Klobuchar), but not both at the same time.

Iím guessing here, of course, but these are people I talk to almost every day.

Did some of them vote for Obama? Yes, even some of the the somewhat racist ones. The economy sucked in Ď08; they recognized that Obama wasnít ďreallyĒ a Black American; and, they didnít associate him with a particular crop of scary young socialists led by AOC (I know Abrams has little to do with the AOC crowd ó Iím just taking about the associations some of THEM will make).
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Old 03-04-2020, 03:51 PM
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Just how much of the Sanders backers need to be mollified? We're now seeing he doesn't have that awesome voter turnout ability that we all had to fear losing/angering. I am having a hard time imagining a Bernie win leading to Sanders offering the veep slot to Biden's choice.

The Sanders backers howling outrage over the rigged system/oligarchy are not going to be appeased - probably were never going to vote anyways. Some nods to progressiveness are certainly appropriate. Giving Bernie any choice in the matter is kinda outrageous.
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Old 03-04-2020, 03:54 PM
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Just how much of the Sanders backers need to be mollified? We're now seeing he doesn't have that awesome voter turnout ability that we all had to fear losing/angering. I am having a hard time imagining a Bernie win leading to Sanders offering the veep slot to Biden's choice.

The Sanders backers howling outrage over the rigged system/oligarchy are not going to be appeased - probably were never going to vote anyways. Some nods to progressiveness are certainly appropriate. Giving Bernie any choice in the matter is kinda outrageous.
You might be right - my suggestion is based on my own reading of each candidate's supporters, but it's hard to have proof for something like this. We'll see.
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Old 03-04-2020, 03:54 PM
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Let's turn the scenario around. Suppose it's Sanders 49-47. Does Bernie concede on important issues on the platform? Does he select Klobuchar to be his running mate and let Biden pick the Secretary of State? Is he willing to put down the shouts of "Sell Out!" from his most ardent supporters?
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Old 03-04-2020, 04:00 PM
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I'd love Warren as VP (or even better, Prez), but I don't think that would appeal to the angry Bernie voters I'm worried about.
What's their beef with Warren?
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Old 03-04-2020, 04:03 PM
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Kind of weird for the establishment to make accommodations to the guy who is running on the platform of destroying the establishment.

While I recognize that mending fences is usually a good idea, I'm reminded of the time when House Republican Whip Eric Cantor started making demands about the 2009 stimulus package should be entirely tax cuts and virtually no spending, and President Obama reminded him: "Elections have consequences."
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