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  #51  
Old 03-09-2020, 09:21 AM
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He will most definitely not attend Biden's inauguration. He will at about 11:45 am, sign a pardon for himself and his family members for any federal crimes they may have committed between birth and the moment he signs the pardons. He will then piss on the Resolute Desk, board Marine 1 for Andrews, flip off the White House and Capitol, and just after noon get a military flight to Mar-a-largo where he will spend the rest of his days tweeting about how terribly he was mistreated.
  #52  
Old 03-09-2020, 09:45 AM
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Yeah. This is my concern. Of course he'll physically leave at the appointed time. He'll get some TV show and bloviate and whip his masses into an Internet frenzy, but that's just a bunch of noise. But he can do serious damage during his lame duck period.
But many people here think he's doing serious damage now. It's a matter of opinion, but like so many matters of opinion like minded clusters of people on the internet treat their opinions as facts and reinforce one another.

There's a 100% chance stuff Trump does after being defeated (assuming it) will be *presented* as 'serious damage' in some quarters. And there's some possibility he would do stuff completely neutral being from another planet would say is serious damage. Then again the completely neutral alien might agree with partisans who say Trump is doing serious damage right now, or not.

A scenario of Trump refusing to leave I think though is mainly a way to get people excited to go vote against him, and see if he does. Anything's possible but that's not likely scenario at all IMO.

Last edited by Corry El; 03-09-2020 at 09:47 AM.
  #53  
Old 03-09-2020, 11:02 AM
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A Presidential self-pardon on January 19.
Keep in mind that he can only grant pardons "for offenses against the United States" (Article II, Section 2). Nothing stops any number of states from pressing their own charges - for example, "Conspiracy to Deprive Human Rights" of anybody he tried to remove from the country, not to mention all of the immigrants in the detention centers.

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If Trump loses I fully expect him to claim massive voter fraud and call the election illegitimate.
Hey, it worked for Rutherford Hayes, although the election is going to have to be close enough that he can get enough states with Republican governors that voted for Biden to switch to Trump.

Then again, it didn't work for Ferdinand Marcos when he tried it, and I expect a similar reaction if Trump even thinks about it, in which case, just as it did in the Philippines, it may come down to which side the Armed Forces back.

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I find it unlikely he will attend the inauguration of his successor.
He'll show up, and then he'll quickly leave, with the cameras showing him boarding Marine One, similar to when Nixon left. He'll probably try to make the day all about him. Meanwhile, I wouldn't be surprised to see the National Mall packed for the inauguration, regardless of whether it's Biden or Sanders, if for no other reason than to show Trump what a real "we packed the Mall" inauguration crowd looks like.

Speaking of Nixon, Trump's wealth gives him another advantage; like Nixon, the Trump Presidential Library can be built with private funds, so he can have it portray him however he wants.
  #54  
Old 03-09-2020, 11:09 AM
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He will then piss on the Resolute Desk, board Marine 1 for Andrews, flip off the White House and Capitol, and just after noon get a military flight to Mar-a-largo where he will spend the rest of his days tweeting about how terribly he was mistreated.
In that case, I can't wait for President Sanders Biden to order the military flight to stay on the ground, have Trump escorted from the from the plane, and force him to fly commercial to Miami.

Last edited by Kent Clark; 03-09-2020 at 11:13 AM.
  #55  
Old 03-09-2020, 11:27 AM
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just after noon get a military flight to Mar-a-largo where he will spend the rest of his days tweeting about how terribly he was mistreated.
Well, his days between "going to Mar-a-Lago" and "being extradited to New York State to face charges not covered by a federal pardon, anyway.
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  #56  
Old 03-09-2020, 01:30 PM
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Keep in mind that he can only grant pardons "for offenses against the United States" (Article II, Section 2). Nothing stops any number of states from pressing their own charges - for example, "Conspiracy to Deprive Human Rights" of anybody he tried to remove from the country, not to mention all of the immigrants in the detention centers.
True. But I think most of Trump's biggest crimes have been federal. Tax evasion and all the laws he's broken as President. A self-pardon should clear up around ninety percent of his legal liabilities.
  #57  
Old 03-09-2020, 01:35 PM
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True. But I think most of Trump's biggest crimes have been federal. Tax evasion and all the laws he's broken as President. A self-pardon should clear up around ninety percent of his legal liabilities.
Certainly there are enough state crimes to keep any lawyer dumb enough to work for him busy for quite some time. I'm not convinced that self-pardons would stand up in court, I'd love to see it challenged.
  #58  
Old 03-09-2020, 04:04 PM
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To be able to sit in a gaudy New York apartment in his underwear and play critic of whomever replaces him is his dream. At the same time re-writing recent history about his time in office as some fantasy of how rosy everything was and how horrible it’s now going to be. A legend in his own mind. And his followers will be there at his feet blindly lapping up the loads of bullshit.
Actually, since he's no longer a citizen of New York, he imagines himself sitting in a suite at Mar-A-Lago in his underwear.

But really, there's no reason to take him out in handcuffs if he decides to stay in the White House. Just announce the day after the inauguration that a WH food service worker has COVID-19. All WH residents will be taken by special bus to a local military base for testing, quarantine and treatment as needed.

If he leaves willingly, great. If he doesn't just let him know that when he's ready to leave, he should put a white flag in a specified window so that workers in hazmat suits can escort him out.

President Sanders Biden will reside in temporary quarters. Before the announcement of the WH quarantine, all landline communications with the WH will be terminated. As soon as the announcement is made, cellphone jammers that surround the WH will be turned on.

With supplies dwindling and all communication with the outside world stopped, I'd say that white flag will be adorning that window in 48 hours, max.
  #59  
Old 03-09-2020, 04:06 PM
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Every president prior to Trump has left office peacefully, and Trump will be no exception.
  #60  
Old 03-09-2020, 04:34 PM
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I can think of a few that didn't.
  #61  
Old 03-09-2020, 04:41 PM
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I dunno, after you get past the dying, death is probably pretty peaceful...
  #62  
Old 03-09-2020, 04:57 PM
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Every president prior to Trump has left office peacefully, and Trump will be no exception.
Lincoln, Kennedy, Garfield, and McKinley beg to differ.
  #63  
Old 03-09-2020, 05:10 PM
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Actually, since he's no longer a citizen of New York, he imagines himself sitting in a suite at Mar-A-Lago in his underwear.

But really, there's no reason to take him out in handcuffs if he decides to stay in the White House. Just announce the day after the inauguration that a WH food service worker has COVID-19. All WH residents will be taken by special bus to a local military base for testing, quarantine and treatment as needed.

If he leaves willingly, great. If he doesn't just let him know that when he's ready to leave, he should put a white flag in a specified window so that workers in hazmat suits can escort him out.

President Sanders Biden will reside in temporary quarters. Before the announcement of the WH quarantine, all landline communications with the WH will be terminated. As soon as the announcement is made, cellphone jammers that surround the WH will be turned on.

With supplies dwindling and all communication with the outside world stopped, I'd say that white flag will be adorning that window in 48 hours, max.
Withhold the diet coke
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Old 03-09-2020, 05:15 PM
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Bush Sr. sent 28k troops to Somalia after he lost in 1992. They were not supposed to be in combat but they did get involved after Clinton took over.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...ops-to-somalia
  #65  
Old 03-09-2020, 05:24 PM
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I don't think he really has what it takes to invalidate the election, but I shudder think of the crazy shit he'll do and/or say as a lame duck. Just imagine the nightmare that Twitter will become. He'll tweet non-stop. Literally, he will spend all day every day tweeting and retweeting memes and conspiracy theories and he'll call every Democrat some new horrible name, demanding investigations and hurling accusations at Biden or Schiff or Pelosi or me or you ... fucking anyone and everyone. It's going to be a heck of a few month.
  #66  
Old 03-09-2020, 05:34 PM
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But really, there's no reason to take him out in handcuffs if he decides to stay in the White House.
It would be fun to watch.
  #67  
Old 03-09-2020, 05:37 PM
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I don't think he really has what it takes to invalidate the election, but I shudder think of the crazy shit he'll do and/or say as a lame duck. Just imagine the nightmare that Twitter will become. He'll tweet non-stop. Literally, he will spend all day every day tweeting and retweeting memes and conspiracy theories and he'll call every Democrat some new horrible name, demanding investigations and hurling accusations at Biden or Schiff or Pelosi or me or you ... fucking anyone and everyone. It's going to be a heck of a few month.
And that will be a relief. If Trump spends his last few weeks in office tweeting out conspiracy theories and planning lawsuits, he'll be too busy to do any serious damage.
  #68  
Old 03-09-2020, 06:50 PM
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not long before Nixon quit the sec of defense , James Schlesinger , told the top generals to check with him if Nixon tried to give them orders directly. That might happen again.
  #69  
Old 03-09-2020, 07:03 PM
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not long before Nixon quit the sec of defense , James Schlesinger , told the top generals to check with him if Nixon tried to give them orders directly. That might happen again.
Could a prez include in his orders an order not to check with the Secretary or anyone else at all?
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Old 03-09-2020, 07:06 PM
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Could a prez include in his orders an order not to check with the Secretary or anyone else at all?
I assume he could include anything he wants. But the military are trained to not follow an illegal order. Remember a lot of Nazis tried to claim they were just following orders to kill Jews.
  #71  
Old 03-09-2020, 07:08 PM
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^^
This. It depends on whether there are sufficient Republicans to support him.
In the US a person does not become President-elect on election night. Or when the electoral college votes. They become it when the result is certified by Congress.

If the election is disputed enough, even with an ostensible Biden/Sanders win, do you guys really think (lets say there is a Republican majority in Congress) that the 'Pubs will not support Trump.
They refuse to certify Biden and instead force it to the House? Voting in state delegations? You think they aren't capable of that. Refuse the returns from enough states to prevent a 270.
In which case, January 20th rolls around and President Pelosi takes over the White House.
  #72  
Old 03-09-2020, 07:26 PM
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Garfield was shot in March but died in September so he lingered on for 6 months. During that time they tried a lot of methods to remove the bullet but that probably just made it worse because in 1881 they were not yet worried about infections. They even tried to find the bullet with a type of metal detector from Alexander Graham Bell. BTW Lincoln's son was there when Garfield was shot.
  #73  
Old 03-09-2020, 11:43 PM
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Why the orange terror will not leave the White House peacefully: Because he'll spend the rest of his life in prison. One minute after Pres. Biden is inaugurated, agents of several states will step up with warrants. Let's see, does he go to Sing-Sing or Folsom?

His only escape is to die in office. Since he's the healthiest president who has ever existed, it's not likely without assistance. Imagine the shrine erected at the spot he keels over and discorporates! It will be a pilgrimage site for generations, even more than Nixon's Yorba Linda birth cabin. Statues will rise. Hymns will resonate. White doves will sail the sky. Gold-dipped underage topless dancers will cavort in in pools of kim-chee sent from Pyongyang. Jehovah will weep, but who cares? Glory to the late God-Emperor! Death to Democrats!

Sorry if I got carried away. But think of the spectacle!
  #74  
Old 03-10-2020, 12:51 AM
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In that case, I can't wait for President Sanders Biden to order the military flight to stay on the ground, have Trump escorted from the from the plane, and force him to fly commercial to Miami.
Yeah, that's realistic and reasonable.
  #75  
Old 03-10-2020, 07:19 AM
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not long before Nixon quit the sec of defense , James Schlesinger , told the top generals to check with him if Nixon tried to give them orders directly. That might happen again.
But Nixon's Secretary of Defense wasn't a toadie. I fear that nobody in the executive branch has the courage to stand up to any order no matter how ridiculous or dangerous.
  #76  
Old 03-10-2020, 07:59 AM
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Yeah, that's realistic and reasonable.
Rather than just naysay every post by a liberal, no matter how hyperbolic, how about actually adding to the conversation?
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Old 03-10-2020, 09:12 AM
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But Nixon's Secretary of Defense wasn't a toadie. I fear that nobody in the executive branch has the courage to stand up to any order no matter how ridiculous or dangerous.
Yes that Sec of Defense also served as Sec of Energy for Carter.

The current SOD is a retired Army Lt. Colonel so I think he can stand up to Trump.
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Old 03-10-2020, 11:51 AM
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I'd like to get ahead of the game.

Will *insert next first-term President here* leave office peacefully when *opponent* wins?
Will *insert next first-term President here* cancel the next Presidential election?
  #79  
Old 03-10-2020, 12:00 PM
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I'd like to get ahead of the game.

Will *insert next first-term President here* leave office peacefully when *opponent* wins?
Will *insert next first-term President here* cancel the next Presidential election?
Keep it handy the next time a fascist is elected president. Of course, the first 44 were not fascists so you might have a long wait.
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Old 03-10-2020, 12:15 PM
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I'd like to get ahead of the game.

Will *insert next first-term President here* leave office peacefully when *opponent* wins?
I would say the next President will leave peacefully and normally when his term of office is done. And I have said that Donald Trump will not leave peacefully and normally when his term of office is done if he loses the election and it's a single term.

I base both of these predictions on the historical record. All of the people who have held the office of President, with one exception, have recognized the dignity of the office and have behaved accordingly. And Trump has been the exception.
  #81  
Old 03-10-2020, 12:19 PM
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Keep it handy the next time a fascist is elected president. Of course, the first 44 were not fascists so you might have a long wait.
You missed the point. This comes up EVERYTIME a President runs for re-election. It happened when Obama ran for re-election ... or are you saying Obama was a Fascist?
  #82  
Old 03-10-2020, 12:20 PM
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I would say the next President will leave peacefully and normally when his term of office is done. And I have said that Donald Trump will not leave peacefully and normally when his term of office is done if he loses the election and it's a single term.

I base both of these predictions on the historical record. All of the people who have held the office of President, with one exception, have recognized the dignity of the office and have behaved accordingly. And Trump has been the exception.
How much of a bet are you willing to make on that prediction?
  #83  
Old 03-10-2020, 12:42 PM
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You missed the point. This comes up EVERYTIME a President runs for re-election. It happened when Obama ran for re-election ... or are you saying Obama was a Fascist?
You missed the point. This is the first time the President himself has floated the idea as have his acolytes.
  #84  
Old 03-10-2020, 12:44 PM
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If Trump wins a second term (shudder), the question may still stand in slightly altered form: Will Trump leave office peacefully and normally at the end of a second term?

By then he'll be 78, if his bad health habits haven't killed him. On the other hand, autocratic types seem to live a long time; didn't Mugabe hold on to power until he was 93? And who knows, maybe Ivanka will be president-elect (double shudder) so he won't mind stepping aside.

So, putting on my Captain Obvious hat for a moment, a lot could happen between now and 2024. But if he hangs on for another term and the new president-elect is not someone from his inner circle, we are apt to be asking about the nature of his departure four years from now.

My prediction, if he loses: I think he'll leave relatively peacefully although he'll call somewhat vaguely for an uprising, and his supporters will talk darkly about a revolution in the streets. Nothing much will come of it, though, despite his increasingly outraged and incoherent tweet-storming. In other words, he'll leave more or less peacefully, but not normally.
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Old 03-10-2020, 02:27 PM
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I have heard this allegation made during the reelection campaigns of Clinton, Bush, and Obama. It's frankly ridiculous.

A president who is not reelected does not have the choice to refuse to leave office. He just becomes a trespasser in the White House. His orders to anyone would be ignored as if I gave orders to government officials. If he orders the Army to attack Canada, that order is as meaningless as if I gave it.

And as any other trespasser, he would be given the opportunity to walk off of the premises either voluntarily or in handcuffs. As a former president, he would be given more of an opportunity for the former before the latter was used. But he is leaving one way or the other.
The problem is that troublesome interval between losing the election in November and the new President being sworn in in January. The loser is still the President and still able to give orders to the military as commander in chief. If he wants to, he can dig his heels in and cry "election fraud". He might, as a consequence, declare a national emergency, necessitating a nullification of the election results and, just maybe, declare martial law. While the House would be in uproar, the Senate, with Mitch McConnell's mouth full of Trump's balls, would likely go along with him. While this sounds far-fetched, consider the shit-stain fucktard we are dealing with. I have a feeling, though, that the military would not cooperate in the end. He has pissed off too many of the generals he claimed to love so much.
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Old 03-10-2020, 02:35 PM
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He will have to be carried out, kicking, screaming and grabbing onto the hand rails, like a whiny little bitch. Then, won't shut up about it for the rest of his worthless life. Which, I hope, will be spent in courts fighting a litany of charges of corruption and other malfeasance.
You just described Hillary to a T!
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Old 03-10-2020, 02:42 PM
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I'd like to get ahead of the game.

Will *insert next first-term President here* leave office peacefully when *opponent* wins?
Will *insert next first-term President here* cancel the next Presidential election?
And I'd like to get a jump ahead in the game: Has any President before Trump done this? Or this? Note that in both cases Trump himself tweeted or retweeted this nonsense. It wasn't attributed to him by opponents (as with Dubya) or thrown out into the ether by over-enthusiastic but unauthorized supporters, Trump adopted it as his own.

And to get two jumps ahead to leapfrog the inevitable "Trump was joking" imagine the GOP/Fox (but I repeat myself) reaction if Obama had made the same joke as sitting President. Not that he would've been stupid enough to make that joke, never mind multiple times.
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Old 03-10-2020, 03:12 PM
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How much of a bet are you willing to make on that prediction?
None. I don't gamble.
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Old 03-10-2020, 03:22 PM
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If Trump wins a second term (shudder), the question may still stand in slightly altered form: Will Trump leave office peacefully and normally at the end of a second term?
I think he'll leave peacefully if not normally after a second term. I would expect a lot of petulant bitterness.

But I think he would have passed his peak by the end of a second term. If Trump gets re-elected in 2020, I predict he will spend a significant portion of his second term trying to change the law so he can run for a third term. And I think he will fail because he doesn't have the skills to push something like that through on his own and he won't get his usual support from other Republicans on that issue.

So Trump will try to lay the groundwork for a third term and fail. And he will then retreat into angry conspiracy theories. Somebody else will become the Republican nominee and Trump will mutter that they're "betraying" him. Trump will be as unhappy being replaced by a Republican as he would be is a Democrat replaces him. Trump doesn't want anyone who isn't himself to be President.

Trump's disapproval will probably split the party and undermine whoever the 2024 Republican candidate is. So the Democrats will probably win in 2024 in Trump gets his second term.
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Old 03-10-2020, 03:52 PM
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You just described Hillary to a T!
In what universe? Is it the one where Spock has a beard?
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Old 03-10-2020, 04:21 PM
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Maybe he meant Sir Edmund Hilary. You know how he was always going about Everest this and Everest that.
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Old 03-10-2020, 05:17 PM
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Maybe "T" means troglodyte?
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Old 03-10-2020, 06:11 PM
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...Statues will rise. Hymns will resonate....
Urinals will flush....
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Old 03-10-2020, 09:50 PM
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Very few people agree with me, but I wouldn't be surprised if he committed suicide somewhere along the way. (No, I don't want that to happen, especially because of Barron.)
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Old 03-10-2020, 10:36 PM
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Urinals will flush....
Back in the Nixonian era, I was gifted with a pad of elegant stickers.
RICHARD M NIXON
MEMORIAL TOILET
I adorned public restrooms across the land. I felt empowered. Right.

But this is a new age in need of new approaches. Sure, I could go with:
DONALD J TRUMP
OFFICIAL PISSPOT
It just doesn't have the right ring to it. We need some vivid slogans.
  #96  
Old 03-11-2020, 09:37 AM
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Back in the Nixonian era, I was gifted with a pad of elegant stickers.
RICHARD M NIXON
MEMORIAL TOILET
I adorned public restrooms across the land. I felt empowered. Right.

But this is a new age in need of new approaches. Sure, I could go with:
DONALD J TRUMP
OFFICIAL PISSPOT
It just doesn't have the right ring to it. We need some vivid slogans.
How about:

AMERICA'S NEW GLOBAL REPUTATION
THANKS, TRUMP!
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Old 03-11-2020, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
I assume he could include anything he wants. But the military are trained to not follow an illegal order. Remember a lot of Nazis tried to claim they were just following orders to kill Jews.
Also remember that every Confederate soldier, from Robert E Lee down to Private Johnny Reb, was pardoned.

Besides, as I like to joke:
Why does the USA have enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world 500 times over?
Because 99.8% of the soldiers with "the keys" would probably ignore the order to launch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RioRico View Post
Why the orange terror will not leave the White House peacefully: Because he'll spend the rest of his life in prison. One minute after Pres. Biden is inaugurated, agents of several states will step up with warrants. Let's see, does he go to Sing-Sing or Folsom?
Neither. San Quentin, in the heart of Deep Blue California. Literally about two miles away from where former Senator Boxer lived when she was in California. There's a ferry that goes right by it every hour or so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
True. But I think most of Trump's biggest crimes have been federal. Tax evasion and all the laws he's broken as President. A self-pardon should clear up around ninety percent of his legal liabilities.
"Tax evasion"? Not revealing your taxes is not evidence of tax evasion. My guess as to why he didn't reveal them is, he doesn't want to reveal how much he claimed in capital losses each year. The last time I looked, you could carry over long-term capital losses past some limit ($3000?) from year to year.
  #98  
Old 03-11-2020, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Gore was the incumbent Vice-President, and staffers vandalized the offices out of spite.

Regards,
Shodan
From your own cite:

Quote:
The accounting office said similar pranks were reported in prior transitions, including the one from Mr. Bush's father to Mr. Clinton in 1993. ''We were unable to conclude,'' it said, ''whether the 2001 transition was worse than previous ones.''
The GAO characterized it as "pranks" and said they were similar to past ones, including ones done by Bush Sr. staffers. So, it doesn't really support the claim that the Clinton staffers did anything "out of spite." Or that what was done was out of the ordinary.
  #99  
Old 03-11-2020, 12:37 PM
Little Nemo is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That Don Guy View Post
"Tax evasion"? Not revealing your taxes is not evidence of tax evasion. My guess as to why he didn't reveal them is, he doesn't want to reveal how much he claimed in capital losses each year. The last time I looked, you could carry over long-term capital losses past some limit ($3000?) from year to year.
It's not proof of tax evasion. (Which is the point of not revealing them. As long as they stay hidden, there's no proof.) But the fact that somebody is refusing to reveal their tax information when it's causing them inconvenience is evidence that revealing them would cause them greater inconvenience.

Trump shows no sign of standing on principles. And he has no problem with making all kinds of personal things public. So the reasonable assumption is that if he's keeping his tax information private, he's doing it out of self-interest and the knowledge that revealing that information would cause him serious problems.
  #100  
Old 03-11-2020, 02:42 PM
DChord568 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RioRico View Post
Back in the Nixonian era, I was gifted with a pad of elegant stickers.
RICHARD M NIXON
MEMORIAL TOILET
I adorned public restrooms across the land. I felt empowered. Right.
Reminds me of the graffiti that adorned the stalls during Nixon's term:

"Republicans: you can't shit here…your asshole is in Washington."
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