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  #101  
Old 03-12-2020, 02:07 PM
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Biden reminds me of a character in a favorite show. The Robot in Lost in Space, the 60s version not the new one.
How is Biden like an overprotective neurotic robot?
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  #102  
Old 03-13-2020, 07:23 AM
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Chuck "my mom cuts my hair this way because it's easier for her to comb for me in the mornings" Todd called Bernie Bros "brownshirts" on the air. This Nazi reference came just before Chris Mathews likened Bernie's surge as a Nazi invasion.

On Reddit, they are being accused of personally attacking Warren and being in general uncouth and frothingly rabid, without any regard to the FBI stated fact that Russia has a concerted effort to troll as "Bernie Bros" to wreak chaos.
Touchť. I guess NBC really is as cloddish as FoxNews in some ways. (This reminds me once again that American politics really were saner when we all just got our news from Walter Cronkite.)

Speaking of Chris Matthews, there was a genuine heroine on the Democratic stage. I still wonder why voters are too stupid to choose her. "Elizabeth Warrenís political legacy should include destroying Mike Bloomberg and Chris Matthews."
  #103  
Old 03-13-2020, 09:23 AM
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I haven't even heard one bernie supporter say this in 2019 or 20.

I think it's a little bit of a slur to say this about Bernie. He has said he would support Biden. His priorities are much more transparent than almost anyone else this season.
Iím sure he would feel obligated to say he supports Biden. But he will continue to drag things out.

If you havenít heard of anyone saying that are abandoning the Democratic Party if Bernie loses go over to twitter and check out #demexit. Sure they are all Russian bots. Believe that at your own peril. There is a portion of Bernie supporters who donít want to win the next election they want revolution and nothing short of that will do. If there happens to be enough of them in key states it could be disastrous.
  #104  
Old 03-13-2020, 09:48 AM
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[QUOTE=asahi;22181482It's fair to question whether he'd be an effective president, and I think reporters and voters have a right to start asking him some hard questions, like what he does if McConnell filibusters key legislation. What does he do if the SCOTUS strikes down the ACA, thereby rendering any expansion of said legislation moot? These are fair questions to ask, and as much as I support Biden, he's not even been asked these questions let alone answered them.[/QUOTE]

Other than Joe's lack of support for removing the filibuster (which assumes that the Democrats take back the Senate - which is probably 50-50 at best), what would you expect any Democratic president to do in those cases?
  #105  
Old 03-13-2020, 10:03 AM
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Other than Joe's lack of support for removing the filibuster (which assumes that the Democrats take back the Senate - which is probably 50-50 at best), what would you expect any Democratic president to do in those cases?
I've been thinking about this some, and while I think that any dem prez who wins election and has a dem majority in the senate should absolutely support removing the filibuster once they are in office, I think it might not make sense to announce that support ahead of time. The worst case is that all the dem nominees loudly announce their support for removing the filibuster, then the GOP retains a narrow control of the senate, and, well, gosh, looks like the democrats want the filibuster removed, so...

(Also, it's entirely up to the senate, so what does the president's opinion even matter?)
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  #106  
Old 03-13-2020, 11:00 AM
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Speaking of Chris Matthews, there was a genuine heroine on the Democratic stage. I still wonder why voters are too stupid to choose her. "Elizabeth Warrenís political legacy should include destroying Mike Bloomberg and Chris Matthews."
Why voters are too stupid to choose her? Really? It's the voters' fault? The voters' fault that she stumbled right into a ridiculous trap with the DNA test, firmly establishing her reputation as "white lady desperately clutching at straws of PoC identity"? The voters' fault that she had all the stage presence of a mom at a PTA meeting lecturing parents about the dangers of Eminem and Marilyn Manson? The voters' fault that she scolded her audience for laughing - "Don't laugh!! It's not funny!" The voters' fault that she appealed only to a very narrow niche of well educated white academics and political policy nerds?

When are people going to accept that she was a lackluster candidate and that's the only reason why she failed?
  #107  
Old 03-13-2020, 12:09 PM
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Yes, Joe can win but my reasoning has changed. I originally thought that the burgeoning yoot vote would be what turned the tide in favor of the Dem candidate but now I see that Biden can get the oldsters out -- a few of whom may have sat things out in a few key states in '16 -- and deny Donald another inside straight in Pa/Mi/Wi.
  #108  
Old 03-13-2020, 12:34 PM
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Why voters are too stupid to choose her? Really? It's the voters' fault? The voters' fault that she stumbled right into a ridiculous trap with the DNA test, firmly establishing her reputation as "white lady desperately clutching at straws of PoC identity"? The voters' fault that she had all the stage presence of a mom at a PTA meeting lecturing parents about the dangers of Eminem and Marilyn Manson? The voters' fault that she scolded her audience for laughing - "Don't laugh!! It's not funny!" The voters' fault that she appealed only to a very narrow niche of well educated white academics and political policy nerds?

When are people going to accept that she was a lackluster candidate and that's the only reason why she failed?
Lackluster candidate? I couldn't disagree with you MORE on THAT count. She was easily the smartest, most-accomplished, most-impressive candidate of all of them. Why didn't she get further than she did? Do you really have to ask that question knowing that the U.S. electorate picked the person who currently occupies the W.H. in the last election? (If you do, here's a hint: we, as a country, aren't smart enough right now to elect someone like Elizabeth Warren to be president)
  #109  
Old 03-13-2020, 01:24 PM
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I’m sure he would feel obligated to say he supports Biden. But he will continue to drag things out.

If you haven’t heard of anyone saying that are abandoning the Democratic Party if Bernie loses go over to twitter and check out #demexit. Sure they are all Russian bots. Believe that at your own peril. There is a portion of Bernie supporters who don’t want to win the next election they want revolution and nothing short of that will do. If there happens to be enough of them in key states it could be disastrous.
Bernie Sanders gave a nearly perfect speech explaining this but who in your world would even care?

The man earned his right to state his case until it's been heard, have his debate with Biden, and has demonstrated character and clarity of intentions. But peoples projections are not under his control.

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  #110  
Old 03-13-2020, 01:30 PM
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Lackluster candidate? I couldn't disagree with you MORE on THAT count. She was easily the smartest, most-accomplished, most-impressive candidate of all of them. Why didn't she get further than she did? Do you really have to ask that question knowing that the U.S. electorate picked the person who currently occupies the W.H. in the last election? (If you do, here's a hint: we, as a country, aren't smart enough right now to elect someone like Elizabeth Warren to be president)
I voted for Warren, but early in the campaign she sure bugged me a lot. She thought it was a good idea to take a page from Reagan's playbook "Let me tell you about a remarkable young mother named Denise I met in Des Moines who's twin 5 year old girls had cancer but no heath insurance...."
  #111  
Old 03-13-2020, 01:49 PM
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I voted for Warren, but early in the campaign she sure bugged me a lot. She thought it was a good idea to take a page from Reagan's playbook "Let me tell you about a remarkable young mother named Denise I met in Des Moines who's twin 5 year old girls had cancer but no heath insurance...."
Okay, maybe her presentation put some people off. But I still insist that she was the best candidate for Prez this time around. Too bad the Dems cast her aside in favor of a couple of old white dudes both of whom I feel are the true "lackluster candidates" of this campaign.
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Old 03-13-2020, 02:15 PM
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Another problem for Warren is that she doesn't come across as the leader/boss personality type. It's not her gender; Hillary Clinton, for example, was comfortable in those roles. As is Nancy Pelosi. She's seems more suited to professor/senator/judge type positions. A cabinet secretary or ambassador as well. Having that somewhat arrogant 'I'm in charge' vibe is important if you want to be elected president. I'm not saying she couldn't be an excellent POTUS, but you have to sell it. It's just the way it is. There's truth to the stupid 'have a beer with the guy' meme about presidential candidates too. It's America. We're idiots.
  #113  
Old 03-13-2020, 02:31 PM
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I know a lot of Bernie supporters that SAY they're choosing to vote for the green party because they don't feel Bernie got a fair shake.

I agree he didn't get a fair shake, but I don't want 4 more years of Trump. I hope this isn't another 2016 scenario. I'm really scared. I really hate how everyone on TV were working against Bernie, and I'm EXTREMELY discouraged. It's as if the Democratic establishment and the Republicans are two sides of the same coin. I almost feel like not voting at all... But more Trump is going to force my hand into voting, just like 2016. I can't take it anymore. It's not that I'm pissed because it's not 'MY GUY' that's running, it's that all these powerful forces made it extremely difficult for 'my guy' that gets to me.

Go ahead and gloat that Bernie probably won't win, that's just going to discourage people more. It's horse crap. How do I talk to the other Bernie supporters, and encourage them to vote Biden? I can't blame them for being mad. I'm mad. I don't want to have anything to do with this crud. The establishment wants me not to have a voice, so why bother?

If this were any other situation... I would say f it, and not vote. I'm saving my protests for another day. Another Supreme Court decision is the only reason I'm involving myself in the process.
Bernie did not get a fair shake?? Look, he has run on his ideology and lost most of the races. What part of that is not fair? Even a lot of younger voters are opting for Biden over Bernie because they believe that Bernie is a bit too radical for the country, overall, to accept.
  #114  
Old 03-13-2020, 02:35 PM
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I'll vote for Biden, but I doubt he wins.
  #115  
Old 03-13-2020, 02:41 PM
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Okay, maybe her presentation put some people off. But I still insist that she was the best candidate for Prez this time around. Too bad the Dems cast her aside in favor of a couple of old white dudes both of whom I feel are the true "lackluster candidates" of this campaign.
And which dems do you blame for casting her aside?
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Old 03-13-2020, 03:38 PM
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Bernie Sanders gave a nearly perfect speech explaining this but who in your world would even care?

The man earned his right to state his case until it's been heard, have his debate with Biden, and has demonstrated character and clarity of intentions. But peoples projections are not under his control.
Why would anyone care that he ďearned his right?Ē What is important is who wins in November. More importantly itís who doesnít win.
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Old 03-13-2020, 03:40 PM
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And which dems do you blame for casting her aside?
All the ones who feel that "Socialist" Bernie and/or Gaffey Joe are better candidates for Prez than she is. That's who.
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Old 03-13-2020, 04:59 PM
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Another problem for Warren is that she doesn't come across as the leader/boss personality type. It's not her gender; Hillary Clinton, for example, was comfortable in those roles. As is Nancy Pelosi. She's seems more suited to professor/senator/judge type positions. A cabinet secretary or ambassador as well. Having that somewhat arrogant 'I'm in charge' vibe is important if you want to be elected president. I'm not saying she couldn't be an excellent POTUS, but you have to sell it. It's just the way it is. There's truth to the stupid 'have a beer with the guy' meme about presidential candidates too. It's America. We're idiots.
Unfortunately I agree with you 100% on this.
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Old 03-13-2020, 05:07 PM
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All the ones who feel that "Socialist" Bernie and/or Gaffey Joe are better candidates for Prez than she is. That's who.
Oh you mean the voters. Yeah itís a shame that everyone doesnít agree with me all the time. Itís always their fault.
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Old 03-13-2020, 05:12 PM
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All the ones who feel that "Socialist" Bernie and/or Gaffey Joe are better candidates for Prez than she is. That's who.
Fair enough, but you accept that voters voted for these candidates - they weren't 'selected' as 'chosen ones.' Right?
  #121  
Old 03-13-2020, 05:33 PM
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Ok... So I didn't think Bernie could have done everything. I really just hoped for M4A..
Bernie can't do that. That would require an act of Congress. The chances will be the same no matter what Democrat becomes president. The only way it passes is if all Democratas support it, and that's enough to pass it. That's highly unlikely, given how hard it was to even pass the ACA.
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Old 03-13-2020, 05:51 PM
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And Joe is going to be losing some of his base to the coronavirus.
It seems likely Trump will lose more. The first demographic where he won a majority was among people over 50.

Biden isn't the enthusiastic guy I would like, but Bernie is the guy who chose to say he's a socialist and continue to support Castro. He also just largely doesn't play well with others--he doesn't seem to care to get any of the other candidates or Dems to like him.

His hope was to get out the youth vote, but he didn't. So now we're back to hoping that we can have a more moderate candidate to appeal to the swing voters. We're back to Dana Carvey (as GW Bush)'s claim that you have to cozy to the middle to win.

I know that my mom, who believes me that Trump is awful, also said that she didn't Bernie in the exact same way she said it about Clinton. And she doesn't generally dislike people. I'm glad I'm not going to have to convince her to vote for him anyways to stop Trump.
  #123  
Old 03-13-2020, 06:20 PM
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Ok... So I didn't think Bernie could have done everything. I really just hoped for M4A. ...

I know Bernie Sanders can't save the environment all on his own but I think that it's urgent to act fast, and I don't see Biden taking big action that we need.
Sanders UHC plan- which has nothing whatsoever to do with Medicare- is the cadillac of UHC plans and requires a total dismantling of the uS health care system, getting rid of every health insurance company, putting tens of thousands out of work, and having every Doctor and Nurse now work solely for the Government. Mind you, it is a very complete plan. But it could never, ever pass Congress in a million years, not even if the Dems had solid control over both houses. It's a pipe dream.

Biden is proposing things that could actually pass Congress.

If "big action" wont pass, but smaller action can- which works better?
  #124  
Old 03-13-2020, 06:21 PM
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By whom?
By Sanders, actually, according to Warren herself.
  #125  
Old 03-13-2020, 06:33 PM
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There's no way Biden could win.. If he gets the nomination, millions will sit home, and in the general, we'll see all those videos (seems like every day) of Biden abusing his "supporters", telling his female aide today to "SHUSH"... Didn't treat Anita Hill well, either.

/

He opposes:
- legal pot
- wealth tax
- medicare for all
- free college
- canceling student debt..

If you want to get rid of Trump, vote for Bernie.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...rijuana-111642
In the recording, Biden restated his cannabis plan ó which would decriminalize cannabis, expunge some cannabis-related records, make medical marijuana legal and create opportunities for more research ó adding twice that he does not believe cannabis is "a gateway drug." He then said he thinks cannabis needs to be "basically, legalized." Biden wants the states to handle legalization, the Feds will just decriminalize, allowing them to do so.

Sanders UHC plan can never, ever pass Congress. Joe knows that so his plan is:
https://joebiden.com/healthcare/
All Americans will have a new, more affordable option. The public option, like Medicare, will negotiate prices with providers, providing a more affordable option for many Americans who today find their health insurance too expensive.

Biden will get every American free college for two years.
https://joebiden.com/beyondhs/

And- Bernie has lost. He's done. Stick a fork in him.
  #126  
Old 03-13-2020, 06:36 PM
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Interesting poll. Biden beats Trump in Arizona, but Sanders loses to Trump in Arizona.

https://ohpredictiveinsights.cmail19...FB8100885F948E
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Old 03-13-2020, 06:43 PM
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Why would anyone care that he ďearned his right?Ē What is important is who wins in November. More importantly itís who doesnít win.
I was just explaining why he will, and ought to, stay in the race and debate Joe for the good of democracy.

Or maybe it's a better idea to take the dude whose ideas are the present and future of the party, and Bidens platform too, and act like his ideas don't matter a pip for democracy. What a great look for the democratic party.
  #128  
Old 03-13-2020, 08:16 PM
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Oh, is Sanders a Democrat? I thought of him more as a coattail rider.

Last edited by bobot; 03-13-2020 at 08:17 PM.
  #129  
Old 03-13-2020, 08:23 PM
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Oh, is Sanders a Democrat? I thought of him more as a coattail rider.
That would be a new one on me.

He is making the polices that are the future of the party.

He ran in 2016 and won a national platform for his 2020 bid.

He is the favorite of younger voters.

I will vote for Joe if he's up, but on the "hack/vacuous" scale he trounces Bernie Sanders. He is a suit that they fill up with the former vp, and we have to hope he is not a dead hand.
  #130  
Old 03-13-2020, 08:35 PM
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Interesting poll. Biden beats Trump in Arizona, but Sanders loses to Trump in Arizona.

https://ohpredictiveinsights.cmail19...FB8100885F948E
I wonder if those results are because of Trumps terrible treatment of McCain before and after his death. I mean Trump tried to vilified a beloved Senator and war hero (to enough of the Arizona populous) and Biden gave his eulogy.
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Old 03-13-2020, 08:35 PM
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...
He is the favorite of younger voters.
...
Who don't actually get out and, you know, vote.
  #132  
Old 03-13-2020, 09:09 PM
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I was just explaining why he will, and ought to, stay in the race and debate Joe for the good of democracy.

Or maybe it's a better idea to take the dude whose ideas are the present and future of the party, and Bidens platform too, and act like his ideas don't matter a pip for democracy. What a great look for the democratic party.
You know what would be a great look for the Democratic Party? Winning. But Bernie is an ideologue and not a democrat. Winning is secondary to pushing his ideology. Thatís an outlook followed by the #demexit crowd. If his ideas were the present of the party he would be beating Biden.
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Old 03-13-2020, 09:28 PM
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You know what would be a great look for the Democratic Party? Winning. But Bernie is an ideologue and not a democrat. Winning is secondary to pushing his ideology. Thatís an outlook followed by the #demexit crowd. If his ideas were the present of the party he would be beating Biden.
If you are a democrat this is a decent point to make. But Biden's policy planks are under the sway of the democratic socialist.

So he's the coat chaser.

I guess its the way of the mob here that bernie can't win the election. But Biden is not strong. it took Clyburn. There was no steam.

I hope you're all right.
  #134  
Old 03-13-2020, 10:02 PM
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Oh you mean the voters. Yeah itís a shame that everyone doesnít agree with me all the time. Itís always their fault.
Of course it's the idiot voters' fault. How did you expect me to respond?
  #135  
Old 03-13-2020, 10:08 PM
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Fair enough, but you accept that voters voted for these candidates - they weren't 'selected' as 'chosen ones.' Right?
Beats me. I don't work behind the scenes. All I know is that Elizabeth Warren, the best candidate for Prez this cycle (no matter WHAT "Loach" thinks [if what he/she does can honestly be referred to as "thinking"]) is now out of the race. Which means that who wins in November is pretty much up in the air (at best if you want the Mango Idiot out of the W.H. which I most certainly do).
  #136  
Old 03-13-2020, 10:41 PM
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If you are a democrat this is a decent point to make. But Biden's policy planks are under the sway of the democratic socialist.

So he's the coat chaser.

I guess its the way of the mob here that bernie can't win the election. But Biden is not strong. it took Clyburn. There was no steam.

I hope you're all right.
I donít think Biden is strong either. He worries the hell out of me. The way I see it his downsides are less than Bernieís and a hell of a lot less than Trump.
  #137  
Old 03-14-2020, 08:03 AM
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If you are a democrat this is a decent point to make. But Biden's policy planks are under the sway of the democratic socialist.

So he's the coat chaser.

I guess its the way of the mob here that bernie can't win the election. But Biden is not strong. it took Clyburn. There was no steam.

I hope you're all right.
Actually, what you think of as Biden's weakness is he's strength, and ironically, it's Sanders' weakness.

Biden has developed a strong network of personal relationships in congress, and that network is how you actually build coalitions in congress to make or break legislation.

I respect Bernie Sanders' passion and his causes - I agree with many of his ideas, either fully or partially. And I still think he'd be a bad president, and perhaps it's for this reason more than any other: Bernie doesn't really seem to have strong friendships or relationships in congress.

That might not seem important, but it is, because when you're whipping votes you need to know where people stand as legislation is introduced, as it's being worked on in committee, as it's coming out of committee, and is it's proposed in one house and sent to the other. I'm not saying Bernie doesn't understand how this works - he's been a multi-term senator, after all. But I am saying that Joe Biden seems to have more experience and success in this area.
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Old 03-14-2020, 08:13 AM
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*his strength, not he's
  #139  
Old 03-14-2020, 11:54 AM
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Actually, what you think of as Biden's weakness is he's strength, and ironically, it's Sanders' weakness.

Biden has developed a strong network of personal relationships in congress, and that network is how you actually build coalitions in congress to make or break legislation.

I respect Bernie Sanders' passion and his causes - I agree with many of his ideas, either fully or partially. And I still think he'd be a bad president, and perhaps it's for this reason more than any other: Bernie doesn't really seem to have strong friendships or relationships in congress.

That might not seem important, but it is, because when you're whipping votes you need to know where people stand as legislation is introduced, as it's being worked on in committee, as it's coming out of committee, and is it's proposed in one house and sent to the other. I'm not saying Bernie doesn't understand how this works - he's been a multi-term senator, after all. But I am saying that Joe Biden seems to have more experience and success in this area.
I can't say I know what his successes are. He's been around the block? I think you are projecting too much onto this.

He needs to win first, in order to be that guy who bests bernie in "working with others"

But some think he can't win in the first place.

A lot of talk here about how the democrats are speaking loud and clear etc. in rejecting Bernie. But it was the african american influence on this that made it happen. Any black american who was even vaguely happy about having a black US potus for 8 years has been dragged through the worst prefascist destruction of a potus' legacy, all for a sick hateful ideology in the oval office.

I am so disgusted by this, that I have no problem with a black vote in favor of Biden as embodying the legacy that is being tarnished so viciously. But I have fears about whether he can win.
  #140  
Old 03-14-2020, 12:35 PM
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I can't say I know what his successes are. He's been around the block? I think you are projecting too much onto this.

He needs to win first, in order to be that guy who bests bernie in "working with others"
Look it up. Biden had a reputation as a Senator who got laws passed. He may not have the best skills as a public figure but he has great legislative skills.
  #141  
Old 03-14-2020, 12:54 PM
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Look it up. Biden had a reputation as a Senator who got laws passed. He may not have the best skills as a public figure but he has great legislative skills.
When was the last time you argued vehemently for your potus nominee as having "great legislative skills"?

Is this a good sign at all?

I mean this is the USPE we are living through that is directly addressed to the topic of whether we are going to just pack it in and go fascist with a tv star at the helm.
  #142  
Old 03-14-2020, 02:21 PM
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  #143  
Old 03-14-2020, 02:36 PM
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..
He is the favorite of younger voters.
...
Who couldn't be arsed to actually, you know- "vote" for him.
  #144  
Old 03-14-2020, 03:53 PM
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To the Bernie Bros I know, the issue is that, compared to Bernie, there is very little difference between Trump and Biden.

Not everyone is "ew Trump" about everything.
  #145  
Old 03-14-2020, 03:59 PM
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To the Bernie Bros I know, the issue is that, compared to Bernie, there is very little difference between Trump and Biden.

Not everyone is "ew Trump" about everything.
They, they are unbelievably stupid and out of touch.

That's like saying there was very little difference between Churchill and Hitler.
  #146  
Old 03-14-2020, 04:24 PM
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To the Bernie Bros I know, the issue is that, compared to Bernie, there is very little difference between Trump and Biden.
Wow, and I thought all the total morons were Trumpistas. As with hardcore Trump supporters, thereís no point in trying to convince such idiots. Ignore them.
  #147  
Old 03-14-2020, 04:39 PM
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Funny that. One could make the comparison with Bernie.

- Populist blowhard who has created a cult of personality that only he can fix things and who will never leave him no matter what.

- Repeats the same stump speech over and over and is very inflexible when pushed away from it (see that disastrous 60 minutes interview)

- Has little to no support from members of congress showing an inability to build relationships and allies

- Dodgy nepotism (Hunter Biden and Burisma can be flipped to Jane Sanders, Burlington College)

Look, Bernie if elected, will probably go down as a do-nothing president who is beaten in 2024. He promises so much that would require a Democratic-controlled Senate to pass as he cannot magically produce his programs. Can Bernie at the top of the ticket help flip red seats? If he could, where are the endorsements? That tells a lot.

Last edited by Boycott; 03-14-2020 at 04:40 PM.
  #148  
Old 03-14-2020, 05:57 PM
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People sure don't want a potus who knows why he's running. Vermin Supreme is probably too self aware for you.
  #149  
Old 03-14-2020, 05:59 PM
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Who couldn't be arsed to actually, you know- "vote" for him.
You didn't already say this? It was somebody else? Is this why forums are dying?
  #150  
Old 03-14-2020, 07:41 PM
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A lot of talk here about how the democrats are speaking loud and clear etc. in rejecting Bernie. But it was the african american influence on this that made it happen. Any black american who was even vaguely happy about having a black US potus for 8 years has been dragged through the worst prefascist destruction of a potus' legacy, all for a sick hateful ideology in the oval office.

I am so disgusted by this, that I have no problem with a black vote in favor of Biden as embodying the legacy that is being tarnished so viciously. But I have fears about whether he can win.
This is exactly the Bernie Bro shit that I saw 4 years ago.

Essentially, it's white people saying "It's too bad you blacks are voting against your own interests."

...as if you (or Bernie) have any fucking idea what black people's interests are.

Aside from the shrillness, the arrogance of Bernie-ism, typically coming from people who are just becoming politically aware, and oh by the way don't vote half the fucking time, is what grinds my gears about Bernie and his shit ass campaign.
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