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  #51  
Old 03-17-2020, 06:18 PM
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Better for an executive to have the power to take away that choice?



Be aware that there is a reasonable possibility that we will be in a public health crisis next November, worse than we are now.



Should the president have the power then to decide that voting is too dangerous and suspend elections until some further notice? Oh we’ll do it later, when it is safe for everyone to vote. Whenever the executive decides that is.


Uh, no. With more than 24 hours notice the state can set up alternative means of voting.

Why not send a ballot to every registered voter in the state by mail, and make it free to return? Ohio allows absentee voting without a reason. But you have to request a ballot in time and return it in time with a stamp.

If we knew there would have been a health crisis, we could have all done this anyway. But we didn’t.

Heck, the timing of this outbreak even messed up the ability of people to campaign in our state. If they knew that there would be an at-minimum 6 day turnaround between requesting a ballot and casting your vote, it would have helped campaign plans as well.

I’m not saying the lawsuit was unfounded. I’m not saying the initial judge’s decision was poor. I’m saying that I was ok with the POSTPONEMENT of this election because now everyone who wasn’t going to be able to vote in person will have time to vote by mail, or vote in person when the emergency is lifted.
  #52  
Old 03-17-2020, 06:34 PM
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Iím just blowing off steam but I think he should be expelled from the Senate
We may need his vote for majority leader next year, best not to piss him off too much. In 2022 if Dems have a more substantial majority, then by all means take away his committee assignments.
  #53  
Old 03-17-2020, 06:56 PM
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That is a very good point, by staying in the race Sanders is making people vote when they should stay home.
  #54  
Old 03-17-2020, 07:08 PM
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How are Bernie Bros gonna have their revolution if they can't even be fucked to get off social media long enough to go vote?
  #55  
Old 03-17-2020, 07:19 PM
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Would love to have a play around with John King's touchscreen
  #56  
Old 03-17-2020, 07:36 PM
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How are Bernie Bros gonna have their revolution if they can't even be fucked to get off social media long enough to go vote?
And maybe itís true that they are loud and assholish but small in actual numbers.
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  #57  
Old 03-17-2020, 07:43 PM
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Anyone hearing results on today's elections?
  #58  
Old 03-17-2020, 07:47 PM
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I've seen that Florida and Illinois have been called for Biden.
  #59  
Old 03-17-2020, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ZipperJJ
Why not send a ballot to every registered voter in the state by mail, and make it free to return? Ohio allows absentee voting without a reason. But you have to request a ballot in time and return it in time with a stamp.
Arizona, one of the states voting today, allows absentee voting without a reason and gives you a paid business reply envelope to return your ballot.

Last edited by cochrane; 03-17-2020 at 07:50 PM.
  #60  
Old 03-17-2020, 07:55 PM
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How are Bernie Bros gonna have their revolution if they can't even be fucked to get off social media long enough to go vote?
Biden supporters vote for Biden.

Trump supporters vote for Trump.

Sanders supporters tell other people that they should vote for Sanders.
  #61  
Old 03-17-2020, 07:57 PM
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Anyone hearing results on today's elections?
It was a foregone conclusion but Trump got enough delegates today to officially be the 2020 Republican nominee.
  #62  
Old 03-17-2020, 08:04 PM
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Biden's voters are literally risking their lives to vote, and Sanders voters are more likely to be out at a pub or smoking a joint and rambling on twitter.
  #63  
Old 03-17-2020, 08:05 PM
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(Response to Little Nemo...)

Fuck. I almost took a Republican ballot just to vote against that guy, "Rocky" is taking him on.

https://www.ballotready.org/il/17/roque-de-la-fuente

Last edited by bobot; 03-17-2020 at 08:06 PM. Reason: ()
  #64  
Old 03-17-2020, 08:40 PM
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Sanders problem is simple, young people don't vote enough to get him enough delegates. Been that way for a long time for the under 30 group.
  #65  
Old 03-17-2020, 08:45 PM
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Biden may be old, but he's still sharp enough and graceful enough to be president.
  #66  
Old 03-17-2020, 09:05 PM
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Well there is no floor on potus behavior anymore, so yeah.
  #67  
Old 03-17-2020, 09:07 PM
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Biden may be old, but he's still sharp enough and graceful enough to be president.
Certainly by comparison...............
  #68  
Old 03-17-2020, 09:10 PM
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Biden's voters are literally risking their lives to vote, and Sanders voters are more likely to be out at a pub or smoking a joint and rambling on twitter.
Heh.
  #69  
Old 03-17-2020, 09:17 PM
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Stick a fork in Bernie, he's done. Biden campaign switching to general election mode.
  #70  
Old 03-17-2020, 09:20 PM
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GTFO, Bernie!
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  #71  
Old 03-17-2020, 09:56 PM
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Every county in Florida, on the heels of every county in Michigan and Missouri, not to mention Mississippi. Looks like every county except maybe Champaign in IL. He's getting creamed in counties that he won 2-1 over Clinton last time around. Getting up to a 300-delegate deficit. Where exactly is he expecting to make up the deficit? The people are speaking, and they're getting loud and insistent enough that even a 78-year-old ought to be able to hear it.

Will he?

Fingers crossed. But I ain't holding my breath.
  #72  
Old 03-17-2020, 10:07 PM
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Every county in Florida, on the heels of every county in Michigan and Missouri, not to mention Mississippi. Looks like every county except maybe Champaign in IL. He's getting creamed in counties that he won 2-1 over Clinton last time around. Getting up to a 300-delegate deficit. Where exactly is he expecting to make up the deficit? The people are speaking, and they're getting loud and insistent enough that even a 78-year-old ought to be able to hear it.

Will he?

Fingers crossed. But I ain't holding my breath.
Yeah, it's over. Only reason to delay now is to help trump.
  #73  
Old 03-17-2020, 10:08 PM
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https://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blo...rida-illinois/
  #74  
Old 03-17-2020, 10:08 PM
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Bernie lost every single county in Florida and may lose every county in Illinois
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  #75  
Old 03-17-2020, 10:10 PM
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Bernie lost every single county in Florida and may lose every county in Illinois
Ugh, looks like Bernie will get one county in Illinois. Hopefully, thatís the only county he wins all night.
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  #76  
Old 03-17-2020, 10:17 PM
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Uh, no. With more than 24 hours notice the state can set up alternative means of voting.

Why not send a ballot to every registered voter in the state by mail, and make it free to return? Ohio allows absentee voting without a reason. But you have to request a ballot in time and return it in time with a stamp.

If we knew there would have been a health crisis, we could have all done this anyway. But we didn’t.

Heck, the timing of this outbreak even messed up the ability of people to campaign in our state. If they knew that there would be an at-minimum 6 day turnaround between requesting a ballot and casting your vote, it would have helped campaign plans as well.

I’m not saying the lawsuit was unfounded. I’m not saying the initial judge’s decision was poor. I’m saying that I was ok with the POSTPONEMENT of this election because now everyone who wasn’t going to be able to vote in person will have time to vote by mail, or vote in person when the emergency is lifted.
The issue is the precedence. Not whether or not you think it was a good call or not, or whether there are possible ways to still grant the right to vote ...

Who has the power to make those decisions?

IF the executive branch has the power to make the decision about a fundamental exercise of citizenship independently, then they can abuse that power. And we have an executive in the White House who illustrates that power that can be abused will be abused at some point.

Last edited by DSeid; 03-17-2020 at 10:18 PM.
  #77  
Old 03-17-2020, 10:47 PM
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  #78  
Old 03-18-2020, 12:36 AM
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Ugh, looks like Bernie will get one county in Illinois. Hopefully, thatís the only county he wins all night.
He might win some rural counties in AZ, but they got nuttin.
  #79  
Old 03-18-2020, 05:31 AM
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It's probably over, but Bernie doesn't hurt Biden's chances by staying in the race and pushing for progressive policies. Like has been said over and over, Bernie has to wrap up his race in his own way and in a way that minimizes the sense of despair for his supporters, then he can shift to supporting Biden in the general election.
  #80  
Old 03-18-2020, 05:54 AM
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I think the point made in this thread that Sanders should bow out and prevent the needless gathering of people at polls is a valid one. Although downballot races would suffer.

Last edited by bobot; 03-18-2020 at 05:56 AM. Reason: Although
  #81  
Old 03-18-2020, 06:12 AM
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I don't think it really matters if Bernie gets out. Unlike in 2016, there's a much bigger story than the election, and he's not holding big events, so he's going to fall out of the news either way.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 03-18-2020 at 06:13 AM.
  #82  
Old 03-18-2020, 06:32 AM
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There were Democratic primaries besides those for the Presidential nomination going on yesterday.

Marie Newman ousted Dan Lipinski from his IL-3 House seat.
  #83  
Old 03-18-2020, 06:44 AM
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There were Democratic primaries besides those for the Presidential nomination going on yesterday.

Marie Newman ousted Dan Lipinski from his IL-3 House seat.
Well, exactly. Anyone who risked their lives to go vote yesterday because of the presidential primary hasn't been paying attention. Biden's got this one wrapped up. But there are plenty of other downballot races.

It's over for Sanders, and I hate that, but it's obvious, and he knows it. The over-the-top nastiness in this thread, attacking him for not withdrawing ("expel him from the senate?" are you for real?), also shows a deep misunderstanding of the political reality.

He needs to concede, but he needs to do it, as iiandyiiii says, in a way that will help pivot his supporters--both the reasonable progressives and the rah-rah team-spirit supporters--to Biden as much as possible. He knows how to do this more than you do.
  #84  
Old 03-18-2020, 06:50 AM
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He needs to concede, but he needs to do it, as iiandyiiii says, in a way that will help pivot his supporters--both the reasonable progressives and the rah-rah team-spirit supporters--to Biden as much as possible. He knows how to do this more than you do.
Good thing, because the Bernistas at Chapo Crap House sure aren't helping.
  #85  
Old 03-18-2020, 06:58 AM
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Very glad to see that Lipinski lost!
  #86  
Old 03-18-2020, 07:03 AM
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edit: duplicate post

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 03-18-2020 at 07:04 AM.
  #87  
Old 03-18-2020, 07:35 AM
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Man, all this drama could have been avoided if Biden had just withdrawn from the race and endorsed Sanders. How dare he run for office in a contested primary!

Yes, I know that that's an absurd argument. The one against Sanders is just as absurd. He's running for office. This is a democracy; he's allowed to do that.
  #88  
Old 03-18-2020, 07:43 AM
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Well, exactly. Anyone who risked their lives to go vote yesterday because of the presidential primary hasn't been paying attention. Biden's got this one wrapped up. But there are plenty of other downballot races.
"Plenty" might overstate it. As far as I'm aware, only Illinois had down ticket races last night. A total of only 20 states have combined the primaries.
  #89  
Old 03-18-2020, 07:48 AM
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It's probably over, but Bernie doesn't hurt Biden's chances by staying in the race and pushing for progressive policies. Like has been said over and over, Bernie has to wrap up his race in his own way and in a way that minimizes the sense of despair for his supporters, then he can shift to supporting Biden in the general election.
If Bernie continues to stay in the race, it just makes it look like he's a sore loser and that he's drawing attention to himself. He risks discrediting himself and his movement, particularly when we see over and over again that the activism online doesn't match the activism we see at the polls. And I'm sorry, but it does create a needless rift between his supporters and the rest of the party. Instead of being Sgt Elias running through the jungle to catch the helicopter, we'd all be better off if he'd push for influence inside Biden's campaign.

Last edited by asahi; 03-18-2020 at 07:50 AM.
  #90  
Old 03-18-2020, 07:59 AM
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If Bernie continues to stay in the race, it just makes it look like he's a sore loser and that he's drawing attention to himself. He risks discrediting himself and his movement, particularly when we see over and over again that the activism online doesn't match the activism we see at the polls. And I'm sorry, but it does create a needless rift between his supporters and the rest of the party. Instead of being Sgt Elias running through the jungle to catch the helicopter, we'd all be better off if he'd push for influence inside Biden's campaign.
Staying in the race isn't in conflict with pushing for influence with Biden. As long as he doesn't go hard negative, Bernie staying in doesn't hurt Biden at all. His (and my) enthusiasm argument has already been discredited by the results, but on the issues he's already moved Biden a lot. If more debates continues to move him, as well as giving Biden more much-needed debate practice, then that could be a great help.
  #91  
Old 03-18-2020, 08:15 AM
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They are very unlikely to have any more debates with covid-19 and Biden having it in the bag.

Yes, Bernie has to do it "his way" but he really should do it now. There isn't going to be any votes or debates for weeks. Rallies will be frowned upon. He is going to rapidly lose camera time.
  #92  
Old 03-18-2020, 08:17 AM
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Nobody's going to be paying much attention to the rest of the primary race (such as it is) anyway, given the way the coronavirus is occupying everyone's attention. So I doubt that Bernie staying or going will make much of a difference.
  #93  
Old 03-18-2020, 09:09 AM
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He needs to concede, but he needs to do it, as iiandyiiii says, in a way that will help pivot his supporters--both the reasonable progressives and the rah-rah team-spirit supporters--to Biden as much as possible. He knows how to do this more than you do.
Based on what? The bang-up job he did in 2016?
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Old 03-18-2020, 09:46 AM
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Based on what? The bang-up job he did in 2016?
Exactly! Do these Bernie supports think we all have collective amnesia and don't remember the shit storm he enabled in 2016? Do they think we do not recall the continued campaigning and divisive attacks long after he was mathematically eliminated? Do you think we don't recall the tepid support and double-talk regarding Hillary and the Democratic Party? Do you think we do not recall his supporters at the convention hissing and boo'ing?

It is absolutely absurd that the argument is being made that we need to be soft and gentle with his supporters and provide for their fragile emotional needs and egos in this difficult time to help them transition to supporting another candidate. Every candidate had supporters who were saddened their choice had to drop out of the race. Every supporter moved on and made the decision on whom to support instead with the goal of defeating Trump. There was none of this histrionics.

This is why there is so much vitriol towards Bernie and his can't-be-bothered-to-vote revolutionaries. They continue to act like snotty obnoxious teenagers. It's time to grow up. Your man lost. Again. Get behind the party nominee and work your ass off to stop Trump, or shut up and go away. I prefer the former but frankly I won't miss you if you choose the later.
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  #95  
Old 03-18-2020, 09:49 AM
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This is why there is so much vitriol towards Bernie and his can't-be-bothered-to-vote revolutionaries. They continue to act like snotty obnoxious teenagers. It's time to grow up. Your man lost. Again. Get behind the party nominee and work your ass off to stop Trump, or shut up and go away. I prefer the former but frankly I won't miss you if you choose the later.
I'm sorry that you've made up your mind about me with such negative conclusions, never having met me. I don't think I'm like this, and I'll challenge you to support your assertions about me with any of my posts as evidence. Or if you're not talking about me, then I'd recommend you be much more specific rather than tarnishing all supporters of Bernie for the actions of just some of them.
  #96  
Old 03-18-2020, 10:28 AM
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You are pushing for massive concessions to Sanders. You are part of the problem. And now that you've abandoned your "enthusiasm" reasoning, you think it should still happen just because you want it to happen. You are unworried about Biden being forced left for the general. Towards the policies of the guy who lost the primary.

Last edited by CarnalK; 03-18-2020 at 10:31 AM.
  #97  
Old 03-18-2020, 10:53 AM
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You are pushing for massive concessions to Sanders.
I'm not pushing for anything that I think would turn off Biden supporters, so I don't think it's "massive" at all.

Quote:
You are part of the problem. And now that you've abandoned your "enthusiasm" reasoning, you think it should still happen just because you want it to happen.
I want as many of my fellow Bernie supporters to vote for Biden in the general, which is why I'm pushing for it. So yes, I "want it to happen", because I think this gives us the best chance to beat Trump.

Quote:
You are unworried about Biden being forced left for the general. Towards the policies of the guy who lost the primary.
He already is. It's working. And in my understanding of polling, these policies are generally more popular than Biden's. So I think this is helping Biden's chances for the general.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 03-18-2020 at 10:55 AM.
  #98  
Old 03-18-2020, 11:04 AM
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If you don't think letting Sanders have veto on the VP pick isn't "massive", we really don't have much room for discussion. Thank you for your thoughts.

Last edited by CarnalK; 03-18-2020 at 11:05 AM.
  #99  
Old 03-18-2020, 11:08 AM
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If you don't think letting Sanders have veto on the VP pick isn't "massive", we really don't have much room for discussion. Thank you for your thoughts.
That's not what I advocate for. I want them to work together to pick a VP that could appeal to and excite supporters of both candidates -- and I think there are multiple candidates out there who could fit (Warren and Abrams, most notably, but I think there are probably others as well).
  #100  
Old 03-18-2020, 11:46 AM
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Work together, you say? So if Sanders said "that's a bad pick, I say no" what should Biden respond?
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