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  #51  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:37 PM
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Joe is telling an absolute lie. He has always affirmitavely supported the Hyde Amendment.
It's cute when you pretend to care about politicians lying.
  #52  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:42 PM
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This whole "dictatorships can't ever do anything good" from Biden is absurd. Bernie is right about this.
  #53  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:42 PM
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Biden should have nailed that statement "Jack the Ripper made progress in lowering prostitution in 19th century England."
  #54  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:43 PM
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If the answer is you can never shut something down that employs people regardless of whether the industry is harmful then we're fucked.
We live in a democracy. When you say you're going to throw tens of thousands of people out of work on your first day of office, people tend not to vote for that guy. You can't save the environment if you can't get elected in the first place.
  #55  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:45 PM
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If Bernie was quick on his feet he could have ended this China discussion by pointing out a Republican (Nixon) went to China and a Democrat (Carter) invited them to America. Our support of China has been bipartisan for decades.
  #56  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:50 PM
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By my count, Joe Biden has led with "look" all but 4 times that he began speaking. About half of the time he leads with "look; here's the thing".
  #57  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:52 PM
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Numbers don't lie.

The turn-out argument has flipped on its head.
  #58  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:53 PM
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It's the fundamental difference between Biden and Sanders. There's ranting about what you're going to get done, and there's... you know, what you can actually get done.

Biden knows the difference because he's been in both places. First he was an idealistic senator who had big ideas -- and then he was a member of an administration having to work his ass off to get what he could get in the way of compromise to accomplish what he could.

Sanders has only lived on one side of that coin.
They've both been in politics for 30 years or more.

Biden's legislative record is disastrous. He keeps touting his liberal chops but, in practice, Biden has been much closer to conservatives in character than a liberal.
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  #59  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:53 PM
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By my count, Joe Biden has led with "look" all but 4 times that he began speaking. About half of the time he leads with "look; here's the thing".
Time to mix it up.

"So, here's the thing..."
  #60  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:53 PM
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These guys are taking more piss breaks than my grandmother used to.

Biden definitely held serve. No sign of mental decline. I do admire Bernie for his adherence to his beliefs, but he had his last chance and it's over.
  #61  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:54 PM
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Numbers don't lie.

The turn-out argument has flipped on its head.
Yes, that has weakened my argument that Sanders has more excitement behind him. I still prefer Sanders, but not as strongly as before.
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  #62  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:56 PM
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Time to mix it up.

"So, here's the thing..."
That's trademarked to Elizabeth Warren.
  #63  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:59 PM
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We live in a democracy. When you say you're going to throw tens of thousands of people out of work on your first day of office, people tend not to vote for that guy. You can't save the environment if you can't get elected in the first place.
One place Clinton lost in 2016 was tell coal miners she would start re-training programs so they could get jobs installing wind mills and solar and what not.

Trump told them he'd save their jobs. They voted Trump.

And then Trump did not save their jobs and they are screwed.

I'd bet Sanders would work to find a road to other employment for fracking workers. It's not really his style to just kick people to the curb.

Yet people keep voting for the people who do kick them to the curb because they tell them a comfortable lie.
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  #64  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:59 PM
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They've both been in politics for 30 years or more.

Biden's legislative record is disastrous. He keeps touting his liberal chops but, in practice, Biden has been much closer to conservatives in character than a liberal.
Please quit trotting out your unsourced, uncited Harper's Magazine opinion hit piece as some sort of "evidence" about Biden's record. It's as correct about Biden's record as you were about how Bernie was going to mop the floor with Biden in the Democratic primaries.
  #65  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:00 PM
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That's trademarked to Elizabeth Warren.
Exactly. For Joe, it's "Here's the deal!" Also, "I really mean that!"
  #66  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:01 PM
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Biden definitely held serve. No sign of mental decline. I do admire Bernie for his adherence to his beliefs, but he had his last chance and it's over.
Yup. Sanders is done. He did fine but Biden did too. I did not see anything here that would tip the balance one way or another for either of them. If that is the case then Biden will take the nomination.
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  #67  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:04 PM
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Please quit trotting out your unsourced, uncited Harper's Magazine opinion hit piece as some sort of "evidence" about Biden's record. It's as correct about Biden's record as you were about how Bernie was going to mop the floor with Biden in the Democratic primaries.
Unsourced? It is, literally, Biden's legislative record. How more "sourced" can you get than that?

If you think the article made a claim that is untrue you can certainly show us where it got it totally wrong and discredit it.

We know what an ad hominem attack is around here.

And where did I say Sanders would "mop the floor" with Biden in the primaries? I hoped he would. I really thought Sanders would do better with the black community than he did (I am still mystified by that one).
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Last edited by Whack-a-Mole; 03-15-2020 at 09:07 PM.
  #68  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:07 PM
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They've both been in politics for 30 years or more.

Biden's legislative record is disastrous. He keeps touting his liberal chops but, in practice, Biden has been much closer to conservatives in character than a liberal.
Indeed. Bernie had him on the ropes, but let him off because of Biden's nice retort about Bernie's gun record. Bernie is the real deal if you support the 2020 Dem platform. He has always been there.

Back in the 1990s when only crazy people (and I guess gay people) supported gay marriage? Bernie was there. He has that going for him.

But it is not enough. I truly admire Bernie's convictions although I could not disagree with them more and think they are dangerous. I think people of consistent convictions and put themselves on the line should be respected.
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Old 03-15-2020, 09:07 PM
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I thought both did well tonight. I thought the format was unusually satisfactory for a debate. I liked the variety of questions and the way they more-or-less held each of them to time limits.

I am frankly impressed with how Bernie manages to keep moving the conversation and the Democratic platform further and further to the left. Every second he stays in the race, it moves a tiny bit to the left.
  #70  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:11 PM
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I watched this entire debate and am posting my opinion before reading anything else. Personally, I was worried about Biden before. I thought maybe his mental status was slipping. I thought the key tonight was not to win the debate but to appear Presidential, like someone you would want to have in charge in a time of crisis. Frankly, I think Biden killed it. I kept wishing he could take over tomorrow. While both he and Sanders appeared miles better than Trump, Sanders concentrated too much on his ultimate agenda. I liked how Biden was able to delineate what was needed immediately, in the short term and in the long term. I do not think he should have limited himself to a female VP but overall even though they both did well, I thought he did better and I ended up feeling much better about a potential Biden presidency. Whatever they gave him to revive him I want some.
  #71  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:21 PM
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I watched this entire debate and am posting my opinion before reading anything else. Personally, I was worried about Biden before. I thought maybe his mental status was slipping. I thought the key tonight was not to win the debate but to appear Presidential, like someone you would want to have in charge in a time of crisis. Frankly, I think Biden killed it. I kept wishing he could take over tomorrow. While both he and Sanders appeared miles better than Trump, Sanders concentrated too much on his ultimate agenda. I liked how Biden was able to delineate what was needed immediately, in the short term and in the long term. I do not think he should have limited himself to a female VP but overall even though they both did well, I thought he did better and I ended up feeling much better about a potential Biden presidency. Whatever they gave him to revive him I want some.
Overall I agree.

My problem is Biden's history has not been very liberal and him telling us all the cool liberal things he will do when president doesn't jibe well with the man he has been in politics for 30+ years.

I remember positively loving the things Obama said when he campaigned and being very disappointed in his presidency when he left office. Obama was not horrible but he was not great and never lived up to his very good rhetoric. I really thought he'd be different and be great. Instead he was "meh."

I think Biden will fall short of Obama. Better than Trump but then who isn't?
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  #72  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:35 PM
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I watched this entire debate and am posting my opinion before reading anything else. Personally, I was worried about Biden before. I thought maybe his mental status was slipping. I thought the key tonight was not to win the debate but to appear Presidential, like someone you would want to have in charge in a time of crisis. Frankly, I think Biden killed it. I kept wishing he could take over tomorrow. While both he and Sanders appeared miles better than Trump, Sanders concentrated too much on his ultimate agenda. I liked how Biden was able to delineate what was needed immediately, in the short term and in the long term. I do not think he should have limited himself to a female VP but overall even though they both did well, I thought he did better and I ended up feeling much better about a potential Biden presidency. Whatever they gave him to revive him I want some.
Yep. Put a fork in it. This primary is done. It's all over but the bitching and moaning.
  #73  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:35 PM
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Biden picks a woman is all that will be remembered. When you have candidates as old as both of them, they’re going to have a bunch of statements and votes that won’t fly in 2020.

I wish they both would have sat this out, but Trump needs to go and with city shutdowns and falling markets, all that will be remembered is that Biden is picking a woman VP.
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  #74  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:42 PM
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I'd bet my next paycheck Biden and Kamala already made a deal for VP.
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  #75  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:49 PM
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I'd bet my next paycheck Biden and Kamala already made a deal for VP.
Hmmm...you might try hitting up FlikTheBlue.
  #76  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:51 PM
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One place Clinton lost in 2016 was tell coal miners she would start re-training programs so they could get jobs installing wind mills and solar and what not.

Trump told them he'd save their jobs. They voted Trump.

And then Trump did not save their jobs and they are screwed.

I'd bet Sanders would work to find a road to other employment for fracking workers. It's not really his style to just kick people to the curb.

Yet people keep voting for the people who do kick them to the curb because they tell them a comfortable lie.
Right, Sanders is going to find them jobs.

Sure.
  #77  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:54 PM
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I remember positively loving the things Obama said when he campaigned and being very disappointed in his presidency when he left office. Obama was not horrible but he was not great and never lived up to his very good rhetoric. I really thought he'd be different and be great. Instead he was "meh."
I remember a lot of voters - young voters in particular - who voted for hope and change, got change, and...sat out during the mid-terms. And we've been dealing with Mitch McConnell ever since.

Presidents can't change the world by themselves, and their fanboy supporters have to understand that and live in that world, not Sim City.
  #78  
Old 03-15-2020, 10:00 PM
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I remember positively loving the things Obama said when he campaigned and being very disappointed in his presidency when he left office. Obama was not horrible but he was not great and never lived up to his very good rhetoric. I really thought he'd be different and be great. Instead he was "meh."
I remember Obama using all his political capital to get the ACA passed by a total of five votes in the House, and with Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson in the Senate threatening to vote against it unless it was watered down. For his efforts, the Republicans won a majority of the House in 2010, and enough seats in the Senate to block anything the Democrats could pass.
  #79  
Old 03-15-2020, 10:09 PM
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Looking forward to seeing Biden call trump a "lying dog-faced pony soldier". And then correcting it to account for the inaccuracy of calling him any kind of soldier.
  #80  
Old 03-15-2020, 10:18 PM
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In
Back in the 1990s when only crazy people (and I guess gay people) supported gay marriage? Bernie was there. He has that going for him.
....
You might find this article interesting: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/28/u...-vanguard.html.

TL;DR: It really wasn't until 2009 that Sanders actually got around to supporting marriage equality. His vote on DOMA was on states' rights grounds; he was "supportive but not very present" w/regard to gay issues through the 1990s and early 2000s; in 2006, asked if he supported marriage equality after VT got civil unions, he said, "Not now."

Clearly his record on gay rights is a good one. But it's not as good as he'd have you believe.
  #81  
Old 03-15-2020, 10:21 PM
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I remember a lot of voters - young voters in particular - who voted for hope and change, got change, and...sat out during the mid-terms. And we've been dealing with Mitch McConnell ever since.

Presidents can't change the world by themselves, and their fanboy supporters have to understand that and live in that world, not Sim City.
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I remember Obama using all his political capital to get the ACA passed by a total of five votes in the House, and with Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson in the Senate threatening to vote against it unless it was watered down. For his efforts, the Republicans won a majority of the House in 2010, and enough seats in the Senate to block anything the Democrats could pass.
Yeah, the "moderate" Democrats running away from ACA and Obama as if they'd never heard of his platform did not save their skins in 2010. Might as well have gone hard for a fullthroated ACA and would have lost just the same while accomplishing more.


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One place Clinton lost in 2016 was tell coal miners she would start re-training programs so they could get jobs installing wind mills and solar and what not.

Trump told them he'd save their jobs. They voted Trump.

And then Trump did not save their jobs and they are screwed.

I'd bet Sanders would work to find a road to other employment for fracking workers. It's not really his style to just kick people to the curb.

Yet people keep voting for the people who do kick them to the curb because they tell them a comfortable lie.
Well... Here are what HRC's words were:

Quote:
So for example, I’m the only candidate which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key into coal country.

Because we’re going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right, Tim? And we’re going to make it clear that we don’t want to forget those people. Those people labored in those mines for generations, losing their health, often losing their lives to turn on our lights and power our factories.

Now we’ve got to move away from coal and all the other fossil fuels, but I don’t want to move away from the people who did the best they could to produce the energy that we relied on.
The audience flat cold stopped listening at "right, Tim". These people understand being put out of business, they don't understand going into a different one: for them "coal miner" or "oil field crew" is part of their identity and saying you'll stop being one is viewed as an attack. Outside the big city limits, the perception that you are being told "change who you are" is quite unwelcome.

When that audience heard "we're going to provide programs to prepare you for jobs in green energy", they heard "we're going to make you become someone else and try your luck and see if you even get into some entry level job in some newfangled thing that you don't understand, run by nerds". So they bet on the one who mendaciously assured them "you won't have to change anything and I'll make sure you come out all right".

Last edited by JRDelirious; 03-15-2020 at 10:25 PM.
  #82  
Old 03-15-2020, 10:28 PM
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Biden just committed to a woman VP!
He did so in such a way that it seemed like a spontaneous, defensive, ass-covering maneuver under the pressure of the moderator's question. Not a good look, IMO.
  #83  
Old 03-15-2020, 10:45 PM
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The audience flat cold stopped listening at "right, Tim". These people understand being put out of business, they don't understand going into a different one: for them "coal miner" or "oil field crew" is part of their identity and saying you'll stop being one is viewed as an attack. Outside the big city limits, the perception that you are being told "change who you are" is quite unwelcome.

When that audience heard "we're going to provide programs to prepare you for jobs in green energy", they heard "we're going to make you become someone else and try your luck and see if you even get into some entry level job in some newfangled thing that you don't understand, run by nerds". So they bet on the one who mendaciously assured them "you won't have to change anything and I'll make sure you come out all right".
Yeah...and they are fucked because they could not see past doing only one thing.

In the past there used to be elevator operators. People who literally ran an elevator up and down. Imagine a candidate telling them that the new, automatic elevators are coming and they need to re-train into a different job.

Candidate-B says, "Nah, I will fight for your jobs and stop those automatic menaces!"

So they all vote Candidate-B but guess what? Candidate-B could never save their jobs. The new tech comes in and they are all out a job and there is no safety net in place and they are screwed.

But hey! At least Candidate-B got that they were elevator people who never wanted to be anything else right?

Give me a break.
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  #84  
Old 03-15-2020, 10:50 PM
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I'd bet my next paycheck Biden and Kamala already made a deal for VP.
You think he is going to pick the woman who called him a racist at the first debate?

Really? I would have thunk that Warren, Klobuchar, or even Abrams would be a better choice.
  #85  
Old 03-15-2020, 10:56 PM
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You think he is going to pick the woman who called him a racist at the first debate?

Really? I would have thunk that Warren, Klobuchar, or even Abrams would be a better choice.
Well, she endorsed him didn't she? Politicians talk shit in the debates. This is nothing new.

I agree Amy would be good as well. But Kamala is black AND a woman. So she might be a bigger draw.

That, and she's got a salty tongue just like Joe.
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Old 03-15-2020, 11:17 PM
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Michelle Lujan Grisham, governor of NM, might be a possibility too. I've seen a few people mention her elsewhere online, but I admittedly don't know much about her beyond what Wikipedia tells me. She's a Latina, which may help with Biden's "Latin problem." And picking her wouldn't affect the Senate numbers at all.
  #87  
Old 03-16-2020, 12:44 AM
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Not gonna be Harris. Biden doesn't need to draw black voters or California. He already has both. He needs the Midwest/Rust Belt.

It's going to be Klobuchar. Bank on it.

Last edited by Kolak of Twilo; 03-16-2020 at 12:45 AM.
  #88  
Old 03-16-2020, 02:00 AM
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Joe sounds strong. Quite coherent most of the time.

This was my takeaway as well. And I fully acknowledge this wasn't always true in the past. But for any reasonable person, this debate has to wipe away any serious claim that Biden has lost it mentally.


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I would be very surprised if Biden's staff didn't drive home with Biden to just chill and get through this. He does not need to win, he just needs to not screw it up and so far he is doing exactly that.

Personally I think Sanders needed to drag out Biden's past legislative record and have him answer for it but, for whatever reason, Sanders is not going there.
There was an article somewhere (don't recall where) that talked about how Sanders' advisors are begging him to go very negative against Biden, but he's refusing, for a very interesting reason -- he personally likes Biden.

This take didn't age well.

I did expect (and at least hope) that this was the way it was going to go down. Instead, Bernie just couldn't help himself. Fucking asshole.


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Lou Dobbs used to be on CNN. Not a great rebuttal there from Biden.

You seem to be missing the point. It was actually a great rebuttal, because it was what Bernie said to Dobbs--that he was a little skeptical about immigration because "they're tak'n 'r jawbs!" Which is, as Biden noted, a Republican trope:

https://www.vox.com/2016/2/12/109812...ders-lou-dobbs
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I don't know why we need millions of people to be coming into this country as guest workers who will work for lower wages than American workers and drive wages down even lower than they are now.

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Yes, that has weakened my argument that Sanders has more excitement behind him. I still prefer Sanders, but not as strongly as before.

You deserve credit for acknowledging this. My 20 year old son, as diehard a Bernie supporter as you'll ever meet, is realistic about this as well. He's pretty disappointed in the vast majority of his generation that didn't get out behind Bernie, even if the ones who did vote were overwhelmingly behind him on a percentage basis.


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I watched this entire debate and am posting my opinion before reading anything else. Personally, I was worried about Biden before. I thought maybe his mental status was slipping. I thought the key tonight was not to win the debate but to appear Presidential, like someone you would want to have in charge in a time of crisis. Frankly, I think Biden killed it. I kept wishing he could take over tomorrow. While both he and Sanders appeared miles better than Trump, Sanders concentrated too much on his ultimate agenda. I liked how Biden was able to delineate what was needed immediately, in the short term and in the long term. I do not think he should have limited himself to a female VP but overall even though they both did well, I thought he did better and I ended up feeling much better about a potential Biden presidency. Whatever they gave him to revive him I want some.

LOL, right? I said something similar to my wife: "Looks like they have finally managed to fine-tune whatever injections they are giving him so they've got the mix just right."


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Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
He did so in such a way that it seemed like a spontaneous, defensive, ass-covering maneuver under the pressure of the moderator's question. Not a good look, IMO.

Whaaat? It sounded very firm and decisive to me, and I'd be willing to bet a lot of money it was decided on by him and his team well in advance of the debate as a way to make news.


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Originally Posted by Happy Lendervedder View Post
Michelle Lujan Grisham, governor of NM, might be a possibility too. I've seen a few people mention her elsewhere online, but I admittedly don't know much about her beyond what Wikipedia tells me. She's a Latina, which may help with Biden's "Latin problem." And picking her wouldn't affect the Senate numbers at all.

This is my pick. In addition to being a Latina, I really like that she has both executive and congressional experience, an ideal combo to be ready to step into the job of president right away (this was something I liked a lot about Jay Inslee as well).

But Kolak is right that it's not a bad bet to predict Klobuchar. I'd be good with that too. Tammy Baldwin would also work. I don't think it will be Harris or Abrams.
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Old 03-16-2020, 02:39 AM
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OMG, sick burn! ("Bern"?)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/u...ate-recap.html
Quote:
After the debate, Anita Dunn, Mr. Biden’s chief strategist, likened Mr. Sanders to a political demonstrator, saying the former vice president had spent the debate “graciously dealing with the kind of protester who often shows up at campaign events, on live television.”
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Old 03-16-2020, 04:54 AM
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This take didn't age well.
Are you kidding? They got a bit testy, but it was all on policy and record. And they both committed to all out supporting the other, should they win. That's not the kind of attacks that the Bernie advisors wanted.
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Old 03-16-2020, 05:50 AM
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The most telling exchange, for me, was about Social Security. Bernie accused Joe of pushing to cut it ("cut" here also including "partly privatize"). Joe tried to explain to Bernie what it means to have something on the table during negotiations, but Bernie (though I love his ideas, and hes an important gadfly) doesn't know "real legislating" from a hole in the wall.

So, Joe was substantively better in that exchange...BUT Bernie produced a sound-bite that can be used to fool some folks into thinking that Joe is a threat to Social Security. WHY? What in earth was the point of Bernie doing this? What can ANYONE gain by tossing a few thousand critical votes among elderly Pennsylvanians (e.g.) away from the Democratic nominee? Push Joe a little on climate change or subsidized child care, maybe even TPP (though I disagree with that one), fine... but Social Security? What is this, 1997? How pointless and stupid.
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Old 03-16-2020, 06:41 AM
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Bernie's right. If you want a guy that has always supported 2020 mainstream Dem positions, with the sole exception of the gun issue, he is your guy. Biden is a Johnny come lately.
Biden seems to be against everything he was for a few days ago. And he seems to be for everything he was against until very recently.

Bernie is the only chance to get rid of Trump.
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Old 03-16-2020, 07:44 AM
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BUT Bernie produced a sound-bite that can be used to fool some folks into thinking that Joe is a threat to Social Security. WHY? What in earth was the point of Bernie doing this? What can ANYONE gain by tossing a few thousand critical votes among elderly Pennsylvanians (e.g.) away from the Democratic nominee? Push Joe a little on climate change or subsidized child care, maybe even TPP (though I disagree with that one), fine... but Social Security? What is this, 1997? How pointless and stupid.
Because Bernie has a few narcissistic tendencies of his own.

Don't get me wrong - like you, I think Bernie's an important gadfly. In fact I think Bernie and Joe are in a position to complement each other. But what should be clear is that Sanders would be a terrible president. Sanders is a movement guy, but he's not an executive. People need to know the difference.

People attack Biden for his attempts to reinvent himself, and to be real, I think the criticism is accurate: Biden was, at one time, a more conservative democrat than he is now. But that's what I like about someone like Biden: he changes with the times. He understands that the party has shifted, particularly among younger voters.

And what Sanders doesn't get is that while the party has shifted, the party and indeed the country has a long way to go before it is ready to embrace the kinds of changes he seems committed to. I want the guy who can get shit done, not the guy who falls on his own sword and achieves nothing. The country, the world needs that.

Sanders supporters poo poo the ACA, but guess what? It's vastly better than what existed before and it made a real difference. Standing ground on a public option would have meant that absolutely nothing changed.

The Paris accords: again, not perfect and well short of what we'd ultimately like to have, but far better than what existed before, and more to the point, it was the first meaningful global attempt to address the problem in an ambitious way. Yet it's not clear what Sanders would propose other than ideas that would get his entire party thrown out of power within 2 years.
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Old 03-16-2020, 08:07 AM
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Amen.
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Old 03-16-2020, 09:18 AM
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You think he is going to pick the woman who called him a racist at the first debate?
This didn't happen.
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Old 03-16-2020, 09:45 AM
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Not gonna be Harris. Biden doesn't need to draw black voters or California. He already has both. He needs the Midwest/Rust Belt.
Biden said that he'd (a) have a woman VP and (b) put a black woman on the Supreme Court. This suggests to me that (a) won't be a black woman and (b) is intended to help soften that blow for people who were expecting Harris or Abrams.

Last edited by Jophiel; 03-16-2020 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 03-16-2020, 09:52 AM
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This didn't happen.
Of course she did.
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Old 03-16-2020, 09:56 AM
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Some people seem to think that any nuanced criticism regarding race is exactly the same as (and equivalent to) calling someone a racist.
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Old 03-16-2020, 10:03 AM
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Some people seem to think that any nuanced criticism regarding race is exactly the same as (and equivalent to) calling someone a racist.
This.
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Old 03-16-2020, 10:43 AM
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My problem is Biden's history has not been very liberal and him telling us all the cool liberal things he will do when president doesn't jibe well with the man he has been in politics for 30+ years.
Nate Silver of 538 commented that Biden has been consistently around the median of the Democratic party over the years. So when the party shifted more conservative, so did he, and now that the party is shifting more liberal, so is he.

Which is kind of reassuring for me as a liberal, since it suggests he isn't going to revert to the politician he was in the '90s so long as the Democratic Party doesn't go back to what it was in the '90s.
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