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  #201  
Old 03-24-2020, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MulderMuffin View Post
You know, the more I think about it, the more it makes no sense for Trump to say he plans to lift restrictions and get everyone back to work. Trump has placed no restrictions, save for closing borders to foreign travelers. Governors have placed restrictions. Mayors have placed restrictions. CDC and state health departments have issued guidelines. Businesses have voluntarily closed, or been closed by state and local officials, or remained open. Schools have been closed by state and local officials. Sports teams voluntarily ended their seasons. What can he reopen? The borders? I can't think of anything else closed by presidential decree. He hasn't been leading from the beginning, so I seriously hope no one follows him now that he's trying to lead us all off a cliff.
True, he hasn't been leading. But he's very used to extorting.

And he has many means available to pressure governors, mayors, county-managers (etc.) to lift all restrictions on people moving about and operating businesses.
  #202  
Old 03-24-2020, 06:29 PM
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Yeah, but rolling with that demented line of Trumpthink, he may certainly try to use that as one of his re-election strategies to claim that all these treasonous liberals conspired against him when he was trying to re-boot the economy. The MAGATS will slurp it up.
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  #203  
Old 03-24-2020, 06:34 PM
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Regarding Trump's vow to get America back in gear by Easter: I confess to having a little devil on one shoulder cackling "Sure, Trump: try that and see how it works out for you". Unless all the experts are wrong, the numbers are going to be dramatically higher a month from now, no matter what we do. But if Trump has relaxed any of the guidelines, people are going to associate the worsening of the pandemic with the actions they saw him take right before that, even if that's not strictly true.


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I think the drama and hysteria are a significant part of Trump's "appeal", for lack of a better word. From a policy standpoint Pence would be similar (probably less overtly racist and xenophobic) but would totally lack the ability to rally the base. I think he'd get crushed by Biden.

No, I think he'd be a tougher opponent for Biden than Trump would be. I believe that although Trump's "appeal" that you refer to is a big part of why he was successful in the GOP primaries, it did not really help him in the general election. It did bring in some new voters to his side, but I suspect he lost more than he gained, and that has only accelerated since then. I believe if Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio had been nominated, they would have beaten Hillary Clinton easily and would now be favorites for reelection.

The one wildcard here is that Pence is still a pretty extreme member of the Christian right. He would be a weaker nominee than a less extreme guy, but his "I'm a conservative, but I'm not mad about it" mien is still going to be appealing to a lot of people.


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I agree this all could well be similar to how the Iranian hostage crisis ended Carter.

Yeah, good analogy.
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  #204  
Old 03-24-2020, 07:13 PM
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True, he hasn't been leading. But he's very used to extorting.

And he has many means available to pressure governors, mayors, county-managers (etc.) to lift all restrictions on people moving about and operating businesses.
I won't disagree with you about that. I can see him succeeding with some states, failing with others.

That will cause a whole new nightmare. Can you imagine, Florida reopens everything, because yay Trump!, but Georgia, which has been hit harder so far, keeps everything in lockdown. Does Georgia then close their border with Florida, allowing no one from Florida to travel into Georgia (for example)?

Will it be a situation like Governor Cuomo was talking about, how if you don't close down everything at once then citizens will just travel to where things are open, potentially carrying the virus with them or bringing it back home.
  #205  
Old 03-24-2020, 07:16 PM
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60% of Americans approve of Trump's coronavirus response; overall Trump approval rating rises 5 points to 49%

Last edited by pjacks; 03-24-2020 at 07:16 PM.
  #206  
Old 03-24-2020, 07:34 PM
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Trumps push to return to normal might sink the democrats once it is established that we are dealing with something that amounts to a bad flu season.
  #207  
Old 03-24-2020, 07:54 PM
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What makes you think it's going to top out at "bad flu season"? It would have to infect FAR fewer people than catch the flu every year for that to be the case.
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  #208  
Old 03-24-2020, 08:36 PM
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The numbers in Italy and China suggest to me that infections are far greater than we know. Not real big numbers before they are hitting peaks
  #209  
Old 03-24-2020, 08:37 PM
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What makes you think it's going to top out at "bad flu season"? It would have to infect FAR fewer people than catch the flu every year for that to be the case.
I think it will infect more people than the flu but get fewer people sick.
  #210  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:21 PM
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Trumps push to return to normal might sink the democrats once it is established that we are dealing with something that amounts to a bad flu season.
This "bad flu season" drove most Asians and Europeans into lockdown. Yeah, just a lib-media-DeepState* hoax. Well, except for that exponential curve stuff. Medical scientists not relying on the insightful intestines of Putin's puppy project that curve to steepen. But what do they know? So what if the new normal is already overwhelming many states? Let a few million Americans die. Texas's LtGov is looking for elderly volunteers. Nice.

* If a deepstate actually existed, this God-Emperor would not be in the Oval Office.
  #211  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:25 PM
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I do think Trump's 49% approval rating will gradually sink as the pandemic worsens, and even 49% isn't exactly favorable for his reelection.

That being said..........

For years now, Democrats have been leaping eagerly at this or that - "This is going to be what ends Trump's presidency!" "No, no, this is what will end it!" and on and on and yet Trump still hasn't sunk. Not that he is invincible, but I think many Ds underestimate just how resilient the guy and his support is.
  #212  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:33 PM
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I do think Trump's 49% approval rating will gradually sink as the pandemic worsens, and even 49% isn't exactly favorable for his reelection.

That being said..........

For years now, Democrats have been leaping eagerly at this or that - "This is going to be what ends Trump's presidency!" "No, no, this is what will end it!" and on and on and yet Trump still hasn't sunk. Not that he is invincible, but I think many Ds underestimate just how resilient the guy and his support is.
But here's the thing: He's only been on the ballot in one election. Oh yeah sure, he won the electoral college, but he got spanked in the popular vote. A majority of people didn't like him then, and a majority of people don't like him today. And the electoral victory he scored was precarious. Then in the midterms, while he wasn't on the ballot, it's safe to say he got spanked, and he got spanked in all the right places.

I'm not saying he's gonna lose in November, but just because he hasn't gotten taken down by scandal while in office doesn't mean his support is strong.
  #213  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:44 PM
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Right. He's never been super strong politically, not among the overall general electorate. It's just that it's frustrating that he is not nearly as weak as he ought to be given his incredibly blatant, obvious unfitness for office.

And I'd add that it always nags at me that his approval ratings were significantly (not massively, but significantly) lower in 2017 than they have ever been for any sustained period since. What's up with that?
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  #214  
Old 03-24-2020, 11:51 PM
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The only way the Coronavirus ends Trump's presidency is if it kills him. Otherwise he wins re-election. Too many people like him, and the electoral college is weighted in their favor.
  #215  
Old 03-25-2020, 01:36 AM
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But here's the thing: He's only been on the ballot in one election. Oh yeah sure, he won the electoral college, but he got spanked in the popular vote. A majority of people didn't like him then, and a majority of people don't like him today. And the electoral victory he scored was precarious. Then in the midterms, while he wasn't on the ballot, it's safe to say he got spanked, and he got spanked in all the right places.

I'm not saying he's gonna lose in November, but just because he hasn't gotten taken down by scandal while in office doesn't mean his support is strong.
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Right. He's never been super strong politically, not among the overall general electorate. It's just that it's frustrating that he is not nearly as weak as he ought to be given his incredibly blatant, obvious unfitness for office.

And I'd add that it always nags at me that his approval ratings were significantly (not massively, but significantly) lower in 2017 than they have ever been for any sustained period since. What's up with that?

Right - Trump may be having it tough right now, but many Democrats think Trump ought to be at Nixon-during-Watergate levels of approval/disapproval rather than being in the 40s. This is nothing new; even four years ago, Hillary asked during the election, "Why aren't I fifty percentage points ahead?"

Democrats have been staring at Trump, bewildered, for years, "Why hasn't this guy burned in a smoking political crater by now?"
  #216  
Old 03-25-2020, 02:35 AM
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Right - Trump may be having it tough right now, but many Democrats think Trump ought to be at Nixon-during-Watergate levels of approval/disapproval rather than being in the 40s. This is nothing new; even four years ago, Hillary asked during the election, "Why aren't I fifty percentage points ahead?"

Democrats have been staring at Trump, bewildered, for years, "Why hasn't this guy burned in a smoking political crater by now?"
To that question, it's a matter of perspective.

Take a cylinder, if someone sees it from the side it looks like a square, if someone sees it from the top it looks like a circle. Some people set themselves into the side view perspective and reject all others, it's a square they say with absolute conviction and yes, from their point of view it looks like a square.

Of course other people will do the other thing, only looking at things from the perspective that it's a circle and the people that see a square are stupid, liars or both.

How does that quote go, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".?*

By rejecting other points of view people end with a 2D representation of a 3D problem; so they may try to put the round peg through the square hole and it doesn't work (OK geometrically this is not correct, but I hope you see the analogy). Bafflement ensues, "it's square why doesn't it fit!?" they'll protest.
The smart thing is to try and see things from a different perspective to asses what the true shape may be. The stupid thing to do is to hold fast to the one's view and think the problem lies elsewhere.

To fix a problem one must first understand the problem beyond a preferred frame of reference, what I see now is the opposition to Trump being stuck in a Graveyard Spiral:
Graveyard spirals are the result of several sensory illusions in aviation which may occur in actual or simulated IMC, when the pilot experiences spatial disorientation and loses awareness of the aircraft's attitude. In other words, the pilot loses the ability to judge the orientation of their aircraft due to the brain’s misperception of spatial cues.

..it is the pilot’s sense of equilibrium which leads to the spiral dive. Flying by "the seat of the pants", and failing to recognize and/or respond to instrument readings, is the most common source of controlled flight into terrain, where an airplane controlled by a pilot hits the ground.


Translate that into politics and I hope you'll see what I mean, the sense of equilibrium comes from one's own frame of reference, limiting oneself to that as the only input can literally led to a crash and burn situation.



* I looked it up, it was Alexander Pope

“A little learning is a dangerous thing. Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring; There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again.”

Last edited by Ale; 03-25-2020 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 03-25-2020, 08:19 AM
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Well here in Kansas City it was the democrat mayor and the democrat governor of Kansas that declared martial law.

Of course the MSM wont point out its all democrats pushing martial law.
  #218  
Old 03-25-2020, 08:30 AM
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The only way the Coronavirus ends Trump's presidency is if it kills him. Otherwise he wins re-election. Too many people like him, and the electoral college is weighted in their favor.
Well the democrats picked a 77 year old white guy to beat a 73 year old white guy.

I wonder when the young people are going to become aware of this?

Democrats are imposing martial law, all for a disease that mostly effects the elderly. In Italy for example 6,800 have died but NONE of them under age 29. Only 14 age 30-39, 46 age 40-49. Its really only after age 60 does it really get serious. LINK

Hopefully people and especially young democratic voters will wake up and see how the MSM (and their democratic establishment masters) are cooking the statistics and creating a mess thats hurting them WAY more than its hurting the elderly many of whom are already on pensions and social security.

Too bad the youth of today have no voices. They did have that Cortez woman but they kicked her to the curb quick when she dared challenge Biden.
  #219  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:22 AM
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To that question, it's a matter of perspective.

Take a cylinder, if someone sees it from the side it looks like a square, if someone sees it from the top it looks like a circle. Some people set themselves into the side view perspective and reject all others, it's a square they say with absolute conviction and yes, from their point of view it looks like a square.

Of course other people will do the other thing, only looking at things from the perspective that it's a circle and the people that see a square are stupid, liars or both.

How does that quote go, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".?*

By rejecting other points of view people end with a 2D representation of a 3D problem; so they may try to put the round peg through the square hole and it doesn't work (OK geometrically this is not correct, but I hope you see the analogy). Bafflement ensues, "it's square why doesn't it fit!?" they'll protest.
The smart thing is to try and see things from a different perspective to asses what the true shape may be. The stupid thing to do is to hold fast to the one's view and think the problem lies elsewhere.

To fix a problem one must first understand the problem beyond a preferred frame of reference, what I see now is the opposition to Trump being stuck in a Graveyard Spiral:
Graveyard spirals are the result of several sensory illusions in aviation which may occur in actual or simulated IMC, when the pilot experiences spatial disorientation and loses awareness of the aircraft's attitude. In other words, the pilot loses the ability to judge the orientation of their aircraft due to the brainís misperception of spatial cues.

..it is the pilotís sense of equilibrium which leads to the spiral dive. Flying by "the seat of the pants", and failing to recognize and/or respond to instrument readings, is the most common source of controlled flight into terrain, where an airplane controlled by a pilot hits the ground.


Translate that into politics and I hope you'll see what I mean, the sense of equilibrium comes from one's own frame of reference, limiting oneself to that as the only input can literally led to a crash and burn situation.



* I looked it up, it was Alexander Pope

ďA little learning is a dangerous thing. Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring; There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again.Ē
This bears repeating. I understand it completely but very, and I do mean very, few people on this board will even understand what you mean.
Hell, they still argue that this board isn't a liberal bastion against all things Republican.

TLDR; You can't see the entire argument because you are blinded by the brilliance of those rose colored glasses for your "side"
  #220  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:43 AM
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Well here in Kansas City it was the democrat mayor and the democrat governor of Kansas that declared martial law.



Of course the MSM wont point out its all democrats pushing martial law.
It isn't martial law.
  #221  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:46 AM
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Democrats are imposing martial law, all for a disease that mostly effects the elderly. In Italy for example 6,800 have died but NONE of them under age 29. Only 14 age 30-39, 46 age 40-49. Its really only after age 60 does it really get serious. LINK

Hopefully people and especially young democratic voters will wake up and see how the MSM (and their democratic establishment masters) are cooking the statistics and creating a mess thats hurting them WAY more than its hurting the elderly many of whom are already on pensions and social security.
You're assigning conservative values to liberals. That's not how it works. Most young people tend to lean liberal. Liberals care about people besides themselves. They care that old people are dying. Liberals are OK with making some sacrifices so that the rest of society is better. Your hope that young people will become callous and unfeeling is not realistic.
  #222  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:46 AM
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Excuse me .... "marital law".
  #223  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:46 AM
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I don't see a square. I don't see a circle.

I see a cylinder. That's why I am also capable of seeing that Trump is a bullshit-spewing jackass.

It's not that complicated.
  #224  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:53 AM
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I don't see a square. I don't see a circle.

I see a cylinder. That's why I am also capable of seeing that Trump is a bullshit-spewing jackass.

It's not that complicated.
You can't assume other people see Trump as a cylinder. That's why Trump won the election. That's why his approval rating is 49%. A sizable chunk of America sees him as something other than a cylinder.

The notion that "I see Trump as a bullshit-spewing jackass, therefore everyone else must too, or ought to," is what leads to bewildered Democrats like Hillary asking why she wasn't leading Trump by 50 percentage points.
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Old 03-25-2020, 09:54 AM
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Well the democrats picked a 77 year old white guy to beat a 73 year old white guy.

I wonder when the young people are going to become aware of this?

Democrats are imposing martial law, all for a disease that mostly effects the elderly. In Italy for example 6,800 have died but NONE of them under age 29. Only 14 age 30-39, 46 age 40-49. Its really only after age 60 does it really get serious. LINK

Hopefully people and especially young democratic voters will wake up and see how the MSM (and their democratic establishment masters) are cooking the statistics and creating a mess thats hurting them WAY more than its hurting the elderly many of whom are already on pensions and social security.

Too bad the youth of today have no voices. They did have that Cortez woman but they kicked her to the curb quick when she dared challenge Biden.
In addition to what Monocracy just wrote, you, like many, are focusing only on the mortality rate and not on the many many that require hospitalization and the many of those that require days or weeks on a ventilator. Part of the high mortality rate in Italy, and part of its lean towards the elderly, is due to prioritizing the use of those ventilators for younger patients.

Without flattening the curve there simply wouldn't be those ventilators and _more_ young patients would die.

You're also ignoring the fact that as much as this is hurting the economy, having that many people sick would also hurt the economy or that the market crashing hurts the people on a private pension more than young people.
  #226  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:56 AM
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You can't assume other people see Trump as a cylinder. That's why Trump won the election. That's why his approval rating is 49%. A sizable chunk of America sees him as something other than a cylinder.

The notion that "I see Trump as a bullshit-spewing jackass, therefore everyone else must too, or ought to," is what leads to bewildered Democrats like Hillary asking why she wasn't leading Trump by 50 percentage points.
What do _you_ think we should do after we come to grips with the insane perspective of Trumpists? Or are you suggesting it's time we just embrace a new normal of "lies are good!"?
  #227  
Old 03-25-2020, 10:15 AM
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Right - Trump may be having it tough right now, but many Democrats think Trump ought to be at Nixon-during-Watergate levels of approval/disapproval rather than being in the 40s. This is nothing new; even four years ago, Hillary asked during the election, "Why aren't I fifty percentage points ahead?"

Democrats have been staring at Trump, bewildered, for years, "Why hasn't this guy burned in a smoking political crater by now?"
Nixon didn't have a state propaganda network on his side.
  #228  
Old 03-25-2020, 10:24 AM
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You can't assume other people see Trump as a cylinder. That's why Trump won the election. That's why his approval rating is 49%. A sizable chunk of America sees him as something other than a cylinder.



The notion that "I see Trump as a bullshit-spewing jackass, therefore everyone else must too, or ought to," is what leads to bewildered Democrats like Hillary asking why she wasn't leading Trump by 50 percentage points.
I don't at all expect them to see the cylinder, and I realized they wouldn't see it long before Trump was even elected. And, yeah, it was clear that the people who thought they could change minds just by explaining how "mean" Trump is weren't helping. Or if they just explained things logically enough people would change their minds.No, they're not going to change their minds; that's become clear. They are motivated by only the reptilian center of their brain. The rest withered away from too much reality TV watching.
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Old 03-25-2020, 10:26 AM
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<Doh I got ninja's by several people>

Facts matter, reality matters, and I can think of at least half a dozen things that Trump has done that are much worse than watergate, and dozens more that are borderline.
And when I'm met loyal Trump supporters, they will often cite one of a number of easily-debunked CTs (recall that it was a CT that made Trump into a political figure in the first place) as some reason for why Trump's great.

So no, I'm not looking at a cylinder as if it's a square. I'm looking at spongebob squarepants sitting on a companion cube, and trumpists are insisting it's a Klein bottle. Not everything is "both sides" and not every position deserves respect.

OTOH, if we're saying don't underestimate the support for Trump, I certainly don't. I would consider him favorite for the election at this point. Picking Biden on the basis of electability, and little else, was a major own goal IMO.

Last edited by Mijin; 03-25-2020 at 10:27 AM.
  #230  
Old 03-25-2020, 10:37 AM
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Well here in Kansas City it was the democrat mayor and the democrat governor of Kansas that declared martial law.
No it wasn't. Martial law hasn't been declared anywhere.

This is nothing to do with circles and squares and cylinders. Some people are striving as hard as they can to be disinformed (see above post). The rest of us, myself included, struggle to accept that people remain so gullible and ignorant when they have a choice of simply asking Google if Kansas is under martial law.

For Christ's sake, consume news in an adult fashion. Question what you're hearing. Stop believing rumors. Disregard the chain email blasts that are coming from your racist uncle or whoever.

Last edited by HMS Irruncible; 03-25-2020 at 10:38 AM.
  #231  
Old 03-25-2020, 10:51 AM
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And GET THE FUCK OFF FACEBOOK.

(The above was meant for everyone. FB is such a mentally toxic pool of lies and disinformation your screen should require sanitizing.)

Last edited by JohnT; 03-25-2020 at 10:53 AM.
  #232  
Old 03-25-2020, 10:57 AM
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Not everything is "both sides" and not every position deserves respect.
'There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Isaac Asimov
  #233  
Old 03-25-2020, 01:04 PM
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And GET THE FUCK OFF FACEBOOK.

(The above was meant for everyone. FB is such a mentally toxic pool of lies and disinformation your screen should require sanitizing.)
I find it useful to check FB just to see what the right wing cretins are thinking. If you want to see humanity at its lowest check the group Vietnam Veterans for Trump- nothing but pro-right wing talking points, bigotry, racism, lies, misinformation, Islamaphobia, etc. etc.
  #234  
Old 03-25-2020, 01:24 PM
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And GET THE FUCK OFF FACEBOOK.

(The above was meant for everyone. FB is such a mentally toxic pool of lies and disinformation your screen should require sanitizing.)
I liken it to bathing in a sewer.
  #235  
Old 03-25-2020, 01:30 PM
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And GET THE FUCK OFF FACEBOOK.
Nothing wrong with Facebook, as long as one stays the hell away from pro-Trump crap and "advice".
  #236  
Old 03-25-2020, 02:23 PM
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Anyone who thought a national disaster would weaken Trump hasn't paid attention to history. Americans almost always rally behind the president during crises, irrespective of how partisans view the President's behaviour or skills. George HW Bush's popularity skyrocketed during Gulf War I. George W. Bush's popularity skyrocketed after 9/11. Barack Obama's popularity remained pretty high through the worst of the financial crisis.

Trump would have had to massively fail for this to really hurt him. And he hasn't massively failed. He's made good calls and bad calls. He's said the right thing, and incredibly stupid things. But by and large, he's done what other world leaders have been doing - some things better than most, some things not.

The real risk to Democrats is simply that Trump may become normalized after this. He'll look more presidential, and gain some gravitas that makes it harder to caricature him as a stupid media personality with poor governing skills, no matter how true that may actually be.
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:39 PM
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So far Trump's highest approval has been 45.5% and that was right after taking office. Those other guys? Other than Obama, their disapproval rating hardly ever dropped below 50%.
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Old 03-25-2020, 02:42 PM
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Anyone who thought a national disaster would weaken Trump hasn't paid attention to history. Americans almost always rally behind the president during crises, irrespective of how partisans view the President's behaviour or skills. George HW Bush's popularity skyrocketed during Gulf War I. George W. Bush's popularity skyrocketed after 9/11. Barack Obama's popularity remained pretty high through the worst of the financial crisis.

Trump would have had to massively fail for this to really hurt him. And he hasn't massively failed. He's made good calls and bad calls. He's said the right thing, and incredibly stupid things. But by and large, he's done what other world leaders have been doing - some things better than most, some things not.

The real risk to Democrats is simply that Trump may become normalized after this. He'll look more presidential, and gain some gravitas that makes it harder to caricature him as a stupid media personality with poor governing skills, no matter how true that may actually be.
... and Trump has still yet to get to 50%.

Seriously, Sam, just look at the numbers before you compare him to either Bush.
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Old 03-25-2020, 03:08 PM
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I'm not saying he'll get anywhere near the popularity that they enjoyed. He is way too partisan and polarizing for that to happen. I would guess that a hard ceiling on his popularity is somewhere under 60% if everything went exactly right for him, whereas Bush I hit 91%, and Bush II was over 70%.

Unfortunately, though, a 55% approval rating would almost guarantee his re-election.
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Old 03-25-2020, 03:36 PM
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One of the top stories on CNN today:

Quote:
"Here's an indisputable fact: President Donald Trump is as popular today as he has been since his first day in office. In a new Gallup poll, 49% approve of the job Trump is doing as president while 45% disapprove, matching the highest his approval rating has ever been in Gallup surveys. A Monmouth University poll released on Monday showed Trump at 46% approval, again the best he has done in that poll in more than three years."

"What accounts for Trump's rise? Simple: His response to the coronavirus crisis.
In the Gallup poll, 60% of Americans approve of the job Trump is doing in handling the crisis while 38% disapprove of how he has done. Six in 10 independents approve of how Trump has done on the coronavirus as do more than 1 in 4 (27%) of Democrats."
I do believe that this pathetic sack of shit has a very good chance of being re-elected and that "my" own pathetic sack of shit, Joe Biden, is not stepping up sufficiently to represent a strong front for the Democratic party and fill the void of Trump and Pence's worthless deer-in-the-headlights "leadership" at these pathetic press conferences.

I've always doubted Biden's ability as a candidate, but now I have a truly sickening feeling. He's been leaning hard into gun control, also, which scares the hell out of me. Obama caught a lot of heat for claiming that people "cling to guns", but he was dead right - people do cling to anything that gives them a sense of security, and when this pandemic is finally over I think a lot of people are going to be thinking, "by God, at least I had my guns in case society did fall apart." Yet another thing that is going to weaken Biden's electoral chances.

God fucking dammit.
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Old 03-25-2020, 03:45 PM
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I wonder how many sociopaths who'd approve solely to fuck with the poll results were in that sample.
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Old 03-25-2020, 04:46 PM
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He always had/has a good chance of being reelected. We have to stop waiting for that one crisis/revelation to come along that finally pulls the scales from people's eyes about Trump. It's never going to happen. Trump's overall popularity is still negative. Trump absolutely can be beaten, and if he doesn't realize that, he's even dumber than he acts.
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Old 03-25-2020, 04:50 PM
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I've always doubted Biden's ability as a candidate, but now I have a truly sickening feeling. He's been leaning hard into gun control, also, which scares the hell out of me. Obama caught a lot of heat for claiming that people "cling to guns", but he was dead right - people do cling to anything that gives them a sense of security, and when this pandemic is finally over I think a lot of people are going to be thinking, "by God, at least I had my guns in case society did fall apart." Yet another thing that is going to weaken Biden's electoral chances.
I agree. Of all election years for a Democrat to call for gun control, a pandemic and crashing economy in which people fear looting or home invasions is not the time for it.
  #244  
Old 03-25-2020, 05:03 PM
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I agree. Of all election years for a Democrat to call for gun control, a pandemic and crashing economy in which people fear looting or home invasions is not the time for it.
I'm a Liberal. Call me a Democratic Socialist. I'm also a gun owner (I probably have more firearms than most or all of us here), so I can see both sides of the issue.

In my opinion, this country has many, many more problems than gun violence. That's not to say gun violence isn't a problem; only that I consider such things as universal health care, an expanded safety net, easier/cheaper entry into higher learning, less 'free money' for the rich and more money for consumers, etc. as having higher priorities.
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Old 03-25-2020, 05:17 PM
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Most liberals (including me) agree with Johnny L.A.. But people who love guns, as we know, REALLY love them. Probably the most reliable single-issue voting bloc in this country. Which is why it's a loser issue for Democrats at the best of times, and especially now.
  #246  
Old 03-25-2020, 06:19 PM
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What Nonsuch said has been the conventional wisdom for many years. I believed it myself until recently, when the hosts of the podcast The Pollsters cited recent surveys that show the intensity of feeling has actually shifted dramatically to the anti-gun side. Some of this may be because Trump is president and therefore right wingers are not as worried. But even compared to during the most recent Bush administration, it was a significant difference IIRC.


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To that question, it's a matter of perspective.

Take a cylinder, if someone sees it from the side it looks like a square, if someone sees it from the top it looks like a circle.

But a pile of steaming feces looks like shit from any angle.

I firmly reject the idea that if I fail to see the angle that shows Trump to have even minimal fitness for the presidency, I'm the one who's being "stupid" (your word). Sorry, but I think that label should be aimed elsewhere, to nearly half the voting population. (Or, sure, some of them may just be malevolent rather than stupid.)


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And GET THE FUCK OFF FACEBOOK.

(The above was meant for everyone. FB is such a mentally toxic pool of lies and disinformation your screen should require sanitizing.)

People are constantly saying stuff like this, but I have been on Facebook since 2007 and it's nothing like that for me. Sounds like other people need to get better friends!


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'There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Isaac Asimov

Great quote! Do you know the date?
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Last edited by SlackerInc; 03-25-2020 at 06:20 PM.
  #247  
Old 03-25-2020, 07:06 PM
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Great quote! Do you know the date?
1980, in an essay in his Newsweek column, 'My Turn'.
  #248  
Old 03-25-2020, 07:25 PM
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Thanks!

ETA: Still ambivalent about the wisdom of Democrats campaigning on this just yet, but if and when they do, this is an awfully good ad: https://twitter.com/AmandiOnAir/stat...11675797061633
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Last edited by SlackerInc; 03-25-2020 at 07:28 PM.
  #249  
Old 03-25-2020, 07:36 PM
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Thanks!

ETA: Still ambivalent about the wisdom of Democrats campaigning on this just yet, but if and when they do, this is an awfully good ad: https://twitter.com/AmandiOnAir/stat...11675797061633
I think that ad should drop George H.W. Bush at the beginning (what's the "crisis" that came to his presidency? The invasion of Kuwait? That's stretching it.) And it should insert a clip of Trump doing something exceptionally juvenile, just like the intro of Sacha Baron Cohen's "Who Is America", to contrast with the other presidents. Hell, I think it would be effective if it were just a somber montage of coronavirus victims and then a cut to Trump waving his hands and saying "duuuhhhhhh, I don't know what I said!".
  #250  
Old 03-25-2020, 07:50 PM
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I'm sure before all is said and done, we'll see a variety. He's a target rich environment!

The Trump campaign is actually suing in court about this other ad: https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/statu...35820757204992

ETA: Bush had a recession and Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, I think those count.
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