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  #101  
Old 03-20-2020, 01:03 PM
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Severe acute respiratory syndrome-related coronavirus is a species name.

SARS-CoV, SARS-CoV-2, SARSr-CoV_BtKY72, etc., are names of viruses belonging to this species.

An individual sample might be referred to as something like SARS-CoV-2/human/Wuhan/X1/2019_XYZ12345 ; note that nobody is trying to conceal the fact that (fictional) sample was isolated in Wuhan- on the contrary, that might be important data.

Last edited by DPRK; 03-20-2020 at 01:04 PM.
  #102  
Old 03-20-2020, 02:37 PM
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Nah- according to the official website
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Originally Posted by RickJay
No it's not. COVID-19 is the disease it causes. The virus is properly called SARS-CoV-2, which is a type of coronavirus, along with its famous cousins, MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV, and a large number of less dangerous and less well known viruses.

The make an analogy, you doubtless know that HIV is a virus, and the disease it causes is called AIDS.

"Coronavirus" is like "retrovirus."
"SARS-CoV-2" is like "HIV."
"COVID-19" is like "AIDS."

(There are actually two HIVs, HIV-1 and HIV-2. HIV-2 is less virulent and less common but can have the same effect.)
Thank you both, ignorance fought. I thought that was the official virus name, as that's what has been used by our public safety people in the briefs we get, but makes sense that it's the disease name, and there is a different name for the actual virus.
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  #103  
Old 03-20-2020, 02:54 PM
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Trump is an incompetent corrupt president and an awful human being, but man, is his troll game is on point.

All he does is say "Chinese virus" or "Wuhan virus."

Trump supporters: That's not racist! It came from China! Is Spanish flu racist!?

Anti-Trumpers: We had a name for the virus! Changing it is a racist dog-whistle! Asian Americans are already being attacked!

Both: Rabble! Rabble Rabble! Rabble Rabble Rabble Rabble!

And just like that everyone is distracted from Trump's bungling and denial when the virus came, and how he cut funding for the CDC and shut down the pandemic response team years ago.
Here's what you analysis covers, Trump saying Chinese or Wuhan virus, Trump supporters and Anti-Trumpers going after each other over whether that is or isn't racist.

It completely overlooks (one may say you've been distracted away from it) why Trump began to refer to the virus as the Chinese or Wuhan virus, for the unpteen time it was as a response to the Chinese government attempts to frame the US as the cause of the pandemic.

I don't see anyone being distracted from Trump over this, I do see people ignoring the role of the CCP on it though.
  #104  
Old 03-20-2020, 03:11 PM
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Diseases popularly named after geographic regions:

Asian flu
Bolivian hemorrhagic fever
Brazilian hemorrhagic fever
Ebola
German measles
Japanese encephalitis
Lyme disease
Marburg virus
Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS)
Pontiac fever
Rift Valley fever
Rocky Mountain spotted fever
Spanish flu (didn't originate in Spain, but Spanish media popularized it)
Venezuelan hemorrhagic fever
West Nile virus
Zika

None of those names have been considered 'racist', and neither was 'Wuhan coronavirus' or 'Chinese coronavirus' - until Chinese state media declared any reference to the Chinese origin of the virus to be racist, and suddenly in America anyone who references the origin of the virus in the name is a racist.

The American left is being played by the Chinese Communist Party. Again. Perhaps Tom Friedman can lead the fight.

Last edited by Sam Stone; 03-20-2020 at 03:13 PM.
  #105  
Old 03-20-2020, 03:50 PM
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I'm curious just what other White House approved terms do you insist we should replace too? We can create even more politically expedient ones to aid a distraction campaign. "viral testing kit delay" could now be "MAGA freedom kit guarantee." Yes, needs work but if we insist, it might be distracting enough to drown out talk of gross mismanagement and incompetence (which is always the real goal here).
  #106  
Old 03-20-2020, 03:53 PM
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....

The American left is being played by the Chinese Communist Party. Again. Perhaps Tom Friedman can lead the fight.
Oh give me a fucking break.

To repeat, I had heard it called coronavirus or COVID-19 practically from the beginning. It's only recently that right wingers are calling it the Chinese virus, which is obviously an attempt to deflect blame from the Trump administration. Why you want to defend our awful president from your place up in Canada is beyond me.

No one, and I mean no one, is forgetting that it came from Wuhan in the Hubei Province in China. As I said, I only ever heard of Wuhan because this came from it. So, calling it the Wuhan or Chinese virus is not about assigning blame to China, it's about deflecting blame from this incompetent administration.

With that, I'm leaving this thread because my next comments would likely get me a warning.
  #107  
Old 03-20-2020, 04:09 PM
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Oh give me a fucking break.

To repeat, I had heard it called coronavirus or COVID-19 practically from the beginning. It's only recently that right wingers are calling it the Chinese virus, which is obviously an attempt to deflect blame from the Trump administration. Why you want to defend our awful president from your place up in Canada is beyond me.

No one, and I mean no one, is forgetting that it came from Wuhan in the Hubei Province in China. As I said, I only ever heard of Wuhan because this came from it. So, calling it the Wuhan or Chinese virus is not about assigning blame to China, it's about deflecting blame from this incompetent administration.

With that, I'm leaving this thread because my next comments would likely get me a warning.
No need to get a warning out of this (I say, as I was close to getting one myself as my first response to being called a Trump supporter). The thing is, you have to ask...WHY is Trump et al calling it the 'Chinese virus'? Is it because Trump hate's Chinese people? Doubtful, though who knows with him? Is it a dog whistle? Maybe. But to me the Occam's Razor answer is he's doing it as a reaction to the shit China has been saying about the US over the last few months. Stuff like the US didn't offer to help in the early days (which is a lie...the CDC did make such an offer, which the Chinese turned down, probably...mostly...because they didn't want them to see how much of a cluster fuck this is. The WHO was a MUCH better choice, being bought and paid for). Or the latest stuff, from Chinese state run media, health officials (CCP officials IOW) and even a state diplomat either stating right out there or making the implication that the virus either originated in the US or was deliberately spread in Wuhan by the US. So...people ARE saying and trying to change the narrative that this DIDN'T originate or come from Wuhan or China. This isn't a right wing fantasy...the CCP is absolutely trying to change this narrative and seem to have picked the US (probably more for internal reasons, but the bonus is how our media is picking up on this stuff, especially when the WHO plays along with some of their bullshit and gives them a veneer of credibility) as the target for the shift.
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  #108  
Old 03-20-2020, 04:16 PM
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No need to get a warning out of this (I say, as I was close to getting one myself as my first response to being called a Trump supporter). The thing is, you have to ask...WHY is Trump et al calling it the 'Chinese virus'? Is it because Trump hate's Chinese people? Doubtful, though who knows with him? Is it a dog whistle? Maybe. But to me the Occam's Razor answer is he's doing it as a reaction to the shit China has been saying about the US over the last few months. Stuff like the US didn't offer to help in the early days (which is a lie...the CDC did make such an offer, which the Chinese turned down, probably...mostly...because they didn't want them to see how much of a cluster fuck this is. The WHO was a MUCH better choice, being bought and paid for). Or the latest stuff, from Chinese state run media, health officials (CCP officials IOW) and even a state diplomat either stating right out there or making the implication that the virus either originated in the US or was deliberately spread in Wuhan by the US. So...people ARE saying and trying to change the narrative that this DIDN'T originate or come from Wuhan or China. This isn't a right wing fantasy...the CCP is absolutely trying to change this narrative and seem to have picked the US (probably more for internal reasons, but the bonus is how our media is picking up on this stuff, especially when the WHO plays along with some of their bullshit and gives them a veneer of credibility) as the target for the shift.
Who the fuck gives a shit about what Chinese state media is saying? Nothing from those craptastic sources is making it into my news sources. If you're seeing Chinese state media press reports in your sources, you need to get better news sources.

Is this just right-wing media finding outrageous things that Chinese media is saying, in order to get outraged by it? I'm really baffled here, because I'm just not seeing it where I get my news.

What fucking bullshit all of this is. If the Chinese state media says the sky is blue, I'll say...nothing, because I don't give a rat's ass about what they say. And, no place I get news will report that they said the sky is blue, so I would never know anyway.

Anyway, I really need to leave this thread. I'm flouncing out of here for real.
  #109  
Old 03-20-2020, 04:22 PM
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Calling it 'Wuhan virus' is not racist...it's ignorance. The official name for the virus is COVID-19.[sic]
It would be a colloquial name. Like "Spanish Flu" or "Swine Flu". The virus is the H1N1 virus and the disease is "influenza".
  #110  
Old 03-20-2020, 04:45 PM
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You don't have a problem with China doing that?
...the issue we are discussing isn't Chinese propaganda targeted at a domestic Chinese audience.

This thread is about American propaganda targeted at a domestic American audience.

Donald Trump is the person who crossed out "corona" and replaced it with the word "Chinese". The CCP didn't force Trump to do that.
  #111  
Old 03-20-2020, 05:57 PM
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Yes nothing breeds trust like name calling over a fucking virus. It has a designation - fucking well call it by its name. Then you can bray and stamp about what didn't happen when by whatever organization you'd like. For right now drop it and fixate on flattening the curve.
The who can call it what ever they like, it does not stop other people or organizations desginating it however they like. When this is all over and its time to count the cost, China is going to have to pay reparations and thats why its being designated the chinese virus.
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  #112  
Old 03-20-2020, 06:30 PM
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Cool story, bro.
  #113  
Old 03-20-2020, 06:43 PM
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The who can call it what ever they like, it does not stop other people or organizations desginating it however they like. When this is all over and its time to count the cost, China is going to have to pay reparations and thats why its being designated the chinese virus.
Nations don't "pay reparations" because a viral outbreak started there. Who would even enforce such a thing, and how?
  #114  
Old 03-20-2020, 07:44 PM
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Nations don't "pay reparations" because a viral outbreak started there. Who would even enforce such a thing, and how?
You watch the news right ? You can maybe take a guess as to how much this is going to cost us and then multiply that by ten. Its basically an open secret that China originally covered up the severity and for that, guilt will be judged. I dont want to bankrupt a country that had the bad luck to have something start there, if they fully divulged but its possible that we could have perhaps mitigated the severity of this getting to other countries.

China needs our markets, they will pay. Like war reparations that other countries paid after WW2 right into the nineties.
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  #115  
Old 03-20-2020, 07:56 PM
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The who can call it what ever they like, it does not stop other people or organizations desginating it however they like. When this is all over and its time to count the cost, China is going to have to pay reparations and thats why its being designated the chinese virus.
Declan, is this you?

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 03-20-2020 at 07:57 PM. Reason: =
  #116  
Old 03-20-2020, 08:11 PM
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You watch the news right ? You can maybe take a guess as to how much this is going to cost us and then multiply that by ten. Its basically an open secret that China originally covered up the severity and for that, guilt will be judged. I dont want to bankrupt a country that had the bad luck to have something start there, if they fully divulged but its possible that we could have perhaps mitigated the severity of this getting to other countries.

China needs our markets, they will pay. Like war reparations that other countries paid after WW2 right into the nineties.
Pandemic groups had their funding cut or dismissed by the Trump administration. Those groups were also set up to keep an eye on nations like China that could not be trusted, or helped with incentives to do the proper reporting or the data obtained independently; there is that, and then there is also the realization that countries like Taiwan also knew how unreliable the Chinese were and were prepared with testing and better health care.

While there could be a justification for your position, in reality it is one that forgives with no good reason the current administration's missteps in the USA.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...demic-response
  #117  
Old 03-20-2020, 09:14 PM
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You watch the news right ? You can maybe take a guess as to how much this is going to cost us and then multiply that by ten. Its basically an open secret that China originally covered up the severity and for that, guilt will be judged. I dont want to bankrupt a country that had the bad luck to have something start there, if they fully divulged but its possible that we could have perhaps mitigated the severity of this getting to other countries.

China needs our markets, they will pay. Like war reparations that other countries paid after WW2 right into the nineties.
So you're just proposing that we fight a world war with a nuclear power so that the chucklefuck in the White House can pretend ignore a crisis in the making because acknowledging the crisis would make him look bad.

Last edited by Smapti; 03-20-2020 at 09:16 PM.
  #118  
Old 03-20-2020, 09:45 PM
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Diseases popularly named after geographic regions:

Asian flu
Bolivian hemorrhagic fever
Brazilian hemorrhagic fever
Ebola
German measles
Japanese encephalitis
Lyme disease
Marburg virus
Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS)
Pontiac fever
Rift Valley fever
Rocky Mountain spotted fever
Spanish flu (didn't originate in Spain, but Spanish media popularized it)
Venezuelan hemorrhagic fever
West Nile virus
Zika

None of those names have been considered 'racist', and neither was 'Wuhan coronavirus' or 'Chinese coronavirus' - until Chinese state media declared any reference to the Chinese origin of the virus to be racist, and suddenly in America anyone who references the origin of the virus in the name is a racist.

The American left is being played by the Chinese Communist Party. Again. Perhaps Tom Friedman can lead the fight.
Good post.
  #119  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:18 PM
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Diseases popularly named after geographic regions:
None of those names have been considered 'racist', and neither was 'Wuhan coronavirus' or 'Chinese coronavirus' - until Chinese state media declared any reference to the Chinese origin of the virus to be racist, and suddenly in America anyone who references the origin of the virus in the name is a racist.
Sammy buddy, n*gger didn't used to be considered racist either.

Times change. As has been pointed out, WHO changed the naming convention around 5 years ago to avoid stigmatizing a place or a people.

Epidemiologists have not conclusively shown that Covid-19 originated in China. Maybe they will after the dust settles, and maybe it originated somewhere else in the globe and really got it's start in Wuhan.

Let's work on flattening the curve instead of blowing racist dog whistles. Mao on a pogo stick, China is critical to the global supply chain. Do you really want to be pissing off China now? It is entirely likely that your ventilator or a least a key part of ventaltors come from China. There is a huge labor shortage in the supply chain, and there are going to be shortages that you can't imagine shutting down production around the world. We've already seen this with automobiles. So, do you really really really want to get in a pissing contest now with a country that just might decide that France or Italy or Germany or wherever is first in line to get a critical part instead of the US of A. And if I remember correctly, you're from Canada.

Do you really think its a good idea to piss off your supplier when there is a shortage? Just so dear leader can talk smack at the daily Pravda propaganda press briefing and get fellated by his staff every day on national TV.
  #120  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:19 PM
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Oh give me a fucking break.

To repeat, I had heard it called coronavirus or COVID-19 practically from the beginning. It's only recently that right wingers are calling it the Chinese virus, which is obviously an attempt to deflect blame from the Trump administration. Why you want to defend our awful president from your place up in Canada is beyond me.

No one, and I mean no one, is forgetting that it came from Wuhan in the Hubei Province in China. As I said, I only ever heard of Wuhan because this came from it. So, calling it the Wuhan or Chinese virus is not about assigning blame to China, it's about deflecting blame from this incompetent administration.

With that, I'm leaving this thread because my next comments would likely get me a warning.
"No one, and I mean no one, is forgetting that it came from Wuhan in the Hubei Province in China"

Evidently you are doing your best to ignore the fact that Chinese state media and officials are not only doing the thing you deny anyone is doing, they are floating accusations that not only the virus originated in the US but also that the US Army caused the outbreak in China.
That last part is tantamount of accusing your country of an act of biological warfare, and you don't care and don't want to see it because... why exactly?
  #121  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:20 PM
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Diseases popularly named after geographic regions:

Asian flu
Bolivian hemorrhagic fever
Brazilian hemorrhagic fever
Ebola
German measles
Japanese encephalitis
Lyme disease
Marburg virus
Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS)
Pontiac fever
Rift Valley fever
Rocky Mountain spotted fever
Spanish flu (didn't originate in Spain, but Spanish media popularized it)
Venezuelan hemorrhagic fever
West Nile virus
Zika
Which of those are from the last five years? Any?
  #122  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:26 PM
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Good post.
Only when one ignores the fact that WHO moving away from using place names for diseases predates the current virus.
  #123  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:43 PM
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"No one, and I mean no one, is forgetting that it came from Wuhan in the Hubei Province in China"

Evidently you are doing your best to ignore the fact that Chinese state media and officials are not only doing the thing you deny anyone is doing, they are floating accusations that not only the virus originated in the US but also that the US Army caused the outbreak in China.
That last part is tantamount of accusing your country of an act of biological warfare, and you don't care and don't want to see it because... why exactly?
Good thing that that is not what he said. As for me, I already did notice that the Chinese leaders being cads does not exonerate the incompetence and bigotry shown by the Cheeto in chief.
  #124  
Old 03-20-2020, 11:10 PM
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"No one, and I mean no one, is forgetting that it came from Wuhan in the Hubei Province in China"

Evidently you are doing your best to ignore the fact that Chinese state media and officials are not only doing the thing you deny anyone is doing, they are floating accusations that not only the virus originated in the US but also that the US Army caused the outbreak in China.
That last part is tantamount of accusing your country of an act of biological warfare, and you don't care and don't want to see it because... why exactly?
Because whether or not the Chinese government hurts my pweshus feewings is not my top concern right now.

It's not in the top 50, even.

Last edited by Smapti; 03-20-2020 at 11:14 PM.
  #125  
Old 03-20-2020, 11:29 PM
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[I]Evidently you are doing your best to ignore the fact that Chinese state media and officials are not only doing the thing you deny anyone is doing, they are floating accusations that not only the virus originated in the US but also that the US Army caused the outbreak in China.
Can you share some credible non-Reddit source links? I can only find things along these lines "Lijian Zhao, a spokesperson for China's ministry of foreign affairs, tweeted out the conspiracy theory as U.S. lawmakers continued to fault China's handling of the outbreak."

Second point, you understand that Wuhan hosted the Military Olympics, correct? And that the US Army sent a military olympic team to compete in those Military Olympics. Which is not exactly "accusing your country of an act of biological warfare." The accusation was a sick soldier participant from the US was patient zero. The tweet said: "CDC was caught on the spot," Zhao wrote in the tweet. "When did patient zero begin in US? How many people are infected? What are the names of the hospitals? It might be US army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan. Be transparent! Make public your data! US owe us an explanation!"

I only know about the Military Olympic games because my old company had a factory complex in Wuhan with 15,000 people. Wuhan spent something like USD2 billion to build out new airports, subways, hotels, stadiums, roads, etc for their big coming out party to the world as the Military Olympic host. That sure didn't work out well.

Now, one has to believe a string of not overly plausible coincidences that the unusual vaping deaths in the US last fall were actually covid-19, that one of the US Army participants was a carrier, that many of the squad got sick in China and were treated for malaria symptoms, the illness pushed the US squad into 12th place instead of an expected top 3 finish, the squad left China before the closing ceremony because they were all sick, of course they visited the wild animal market, during the visit to Wuhan infected some locals, and the US has not tested the infected soldiers and made the findings public. Color me skeptical. That said the epidemic forensics folks have not had the opportunity to conclusively determine where Covid-19 originated. I've got a dorm mate who worked for the CDC in China during and after SARS, and they do investigations into outbreaks that us laymen don't really understand. And those investigations haven't concluded since it is in the middle of an epidemic right now...

So, one official in China made some inflamatory tweets. But unless you've got some credible cites otherwise, that's all it was. And certainly not accusing the US of unleashing biological warfare.

Now that you mention it, I seem to remember there's a head of government somewhere that is known for inflammatory tweets. Help me out, comrade, as I'm blanking on who might be that twitter in Chief.
  #126  
Old 03-20-2020, 11:43 PM
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The PRC positions are being repeated by Western news outlets, plus the WHO waspushing back at travel restrictions-

cite
  #127  
Old 03-21-2020, 12:32 AM
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Can you share some credible non-Reddit source links? I can only find things along these lines "Lijian Zhao, a spokesperson for China's ministry of foreign affairs, tweeted out the conspiracy theory as U.S. lawmakers continued to fault China's handling of the outbreak."

Second point, you understand that Wuhan hosted the Military Olympics, correct? And that the US Army sent a military olympic team to compete in those Military Olympics. Which is not exactly "accusing your country of an act of biological warfare." The accusation was a sick soldier participant from the US was patient zero. The tweet said: "CDC was caught on the spot," Zhao wrote in the tweet. "When did patient zero begin in US? How many people are infected? What are the names of the hospitals? It might be US army who brought the epidemic to Wuhan. Be transparent! Make public your data! US owe us an explanation!"

I only know about the Military Olympic games because my old company had a factory complex in Wuhan with 15,000 people. Wuhan spent something like USD2 billion to build out new airports, subways, hotels, stadiums, roads, etc for their big coming out party to the world as the Military Olympic host. That sure didn't work out well.

Now, one has to believe a string of not overly plausible coincidences that the unusual vaping deaths in the US last fall were actually covid-19, that one of the US Army participants was a carrier, that many of the squad got sick in China and were treated for malaria symptoms, the illness pushed the US squad into 12th place instead of an expected top 3 finish, the squad left China before the closing ceremony because they were all sick, of course they visited the wild animal market, during the visit to Wuhan infected some locals, and the US has not tested the infected soldiers and made the findings public. Color me skeptical. That said the epidemic forensics folks have not had the opportunity to conclusively determine where Covid-19 originated. I've got a dorm mate who worked for the CDC in China during and after SARS, and they do investigations into outbreaks that us laymen don't really understand. And those investigations haven't concluded since it is in the middle of an epidemic right now...

So, one official in China made some inflamatory tweets. But unless you've got some credible cites otherwise, that's all it was. And certainly not accusing the US of unleashing biological warfare.

Now that you mention it, I seem to remember there's a head of government somewhere that is known for inflammatory tweets. Help me out, comrade, as I'm blanking on who might be that twitter in Chief.
No, that is not all, you are downplaying things and it seems quite deliberate.

Washington Post: Conspiracy theorists blame U.S. for coronavirus. China is happy to encourage them.

"the Chinese Internet became inundated by the theory, subtly stoked by the Chinese government, that the coronavirus originated in the United States.
...
While conspiracy theories pervade the Internet in every country, the sudden surge and overwhelming prevalence of anti-U.S. rhetoric this week has been conspicuous and significant in the context of China, where censors typically scrub speech that strays out of bounds and police quickly detain those deemed to be spreading rumors.

“It’s more than just some disinformation or an official narrative,” said Xiao, the founder of China Digital Times, a website that regularly publishes leaked directives from the party’s propaganda department. “It’s an orchestrated, all-out campaign by the Chinese government through every channel at a level you rarely see. It’s a counteroffensive.”


"Wang Xiaolei, a former state media journalist and popular WeChat essayist, urged Chinese to stop blaming other countries and shoulder some responsibility.
...
By Sunday, Wang’s essay was censored and had vanished from China’s Internet.""
  #128  
Old 03-21-2020, 12:33 AM
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Good thing that that is not what he said. As for me, I already did notice that the Chinese leaders being cads does not exonerate the incompetence and bigotry shown by the Cheeto in chief.
I quoted him verbatim from the post, the level of gaslighting in this discussion is getting ridiculous.
  #129  
Old 03-21-2020, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Ale View Post
I quoted him verbatim from the post, the level of gaslighting in this discussion is getting ridiculous.
Of course, who said there also that it came from the Chinese city? It is clear that you are claiming that you can read his mind and his real purpose. And again, you are there clearly reaching for a straw man in my case. Either that, or you are an ignorant about what the word cad means.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 03-21-2020 at 12:39 AM.
  #130  
Old 03-21-2020, 01:05 AM
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Because whether or not the Chinese government hurts my pweshus feewings is not my top concern right now.

It's not in the top 50, even.
Axios: Why it matters: A study published in March indicated that if Chinese authorities had acted three weeks earlier than they did, the number of coronavirus cases could have been reduced by 95% and its geographic spread limited.

What they did during those three weeks, being an oppressive totalitarian government, was to cover up the situation and persecute people who tried to raise the alarm and now they are trying to shift the blame for political gain.

The Atlantic: The evidence of China’s deliberate cover-up of the coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan is a matter of public record. In suppressing information about the virus, doing little to contain it, and allowing it to spread unchecked in the crucial early days and weeks, the regime imperiled not only its own country and its own citizens but also the more than 100 nations now facing their own potentially devastating outbreaks. More perniciously, the Chinese government censored and detained those brave doctors and whistleblowers who attempted to sound the alarm and warn their fellow citizens when they understood the gravity of what was to come.

It's not about feelings, it's about the origins of a world wide disaster and efforts to rewrite history to the benefit of a totalitarian regime which is all to happy to play the race card as a distraction knowing that it will gobbled up hook, line and sinker by some people.

Going forward I see that China has reported no new locally transmitted coronavirus cases which sounds quite unbelievable, in fact it sound like the sort of state control of the "truth" that led to the current situation. But nope, nothing to see here.
  #131  
Old 03-21-2020, 01:21 AM
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Of course there is something to see there; as pointed before, a lot of independent ways to verify what the dishonorable leaders in China missed was not funded properly or at all by the Trump administration.

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/25/211505...virus-cdc-cuts
Quote:
In 2005, during the H1N5 bird flu scare, the US Agency for International Development ran a program called Predict to identify and research infectious diseases in animal populations in the developing world. Most new viruses that impact humans — apparently including the one causing the Covid-19 disease — emerge through this route, so investing in early research is the kind of thing that, at modest ongoing cost, served to reduce the likelihood of rare but catastrophic events.

The program was initiated under George W. Bush and continued through Barack Obama’s eight years in office; then, last fall the Trump administration shut it down.
And yes, they were monitoring China too, until recently...
  #132  
Old 03-21-2020, 01:22 AM
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What they did during those three weeks, being an oppressive totalitarian government, was to cover up the situation and persecute people who tried to raise the alarm and now they are trying to shift the blame for political gain.
So exactly the same thing as the Trump administration did and is still doing. The

Quote:
It's not about feelings, it's about the origins of a world wide disaster and efforts to rewrite history to the benefit of a totalitarian regime which is all to happy to play the race card as a distraction knowing that it will gobbled up hook, line and sinker by some people.
And how exactly does calling it a "China virus" change any of that? It's not a useful or descriptive term, it's a dog-whistle and an attempt to shift blame. The literal only reason Trump is doing it is because he can't continue claiming the virus is a Democratic hoax at this point, and God help if he's going to accept any responsibility for anything that goes wrong under his watch.

Last edited by Smapti; 03-21-2020 at 01:25 AM.
  #133  
Old 03-21-2020, 01:23 AM
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Of course, who said there also that it came from the Chinese city? It is clear that you are claiming that you can read his mind and his real purpose. And again, you are there clearly reaching for a straw man in my case. Either that, or you are an ignorant about what the word cad means.
Now quoting someone verbatim is "mind reading".

RitterSport: "No one, and I mean no one, is forgetting that it came from Wuhan in the Hubei Province in China""

Me: actually here's Chinese officials floating the idea that the virus didn't come from Wuhan, Hubei or even China altogether, and here are links to citing people saying things that prove your assertion to be incorrect such as:
"In recent days, run-of-the-mill mockery of the White House has taken a darker turn as the Chinese Internet became inundated by the theory, subtly stoked by the Chinese government, that the coronavirus originated in the United States."
"state-run Xinhua News Agency republished an essay that suggested the virus originated elsewhere"
"Influential Weibo accounts such as “Beijing Things” circulated a Taiwanese television clip showing a pharmacologist speculating about the United States as the contagion’s origin. Writers at popular outlets on WeChat churned out theses laying out how the U.S. military could have deployed the pathogen as a clandestine bioweapon during a trip to Wuhan in October."


You... what exactly is it that you are doing?
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Old 03-21-2020, 01:27 AM
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Calling the disease "Wuhan virus" BEFORE the more official "Covid-19" came into general use was NOT racist. Calling it "Chinese virus" AFTER the more official "Covid-19" came into general use IS very racist.

I apologize for not pointing this out yesterday — the Mods could have closed the thread and much consternation have been saved.

I see claims in the thread that China (or rather "the CCP") is somehow blaming the U.S. for the virus? Can someone explain this claim or point to a reputable cite?
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Originally Posted by XT View Post
The CCP is waging a full on propaganda war right now. They are playing every card in the deck, including the racism card, because they know that saying 'racism' is a trigger in the west.... Hell, the WHO is ever ready to blow the CCP for that sweet, sweet China money... It's a total circle jerk ...
Boy, you really "have a hard-on" for "the CCP." I'm curious whether you'd acknowledge that the U.S.A. has also misused its military, economic, diplomatic and intelligence powers over the past seven decades to repress or to gain advantage over other countries? If lists of misdeeds were compiled, is it clear which country would show as worse?

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Originally Posted by HMS Irruncible View Post
You uh... do realize that Taiwan and China are political rivals and have reason to lob barbs at each other, right?

At any rate, all these informal names were bouncing around before a formal name was chosen. Now that there's a formal name, there's no reason to go back to the original raw reporting except to poke China in the eye.
...
Wow, you are *this* close to getting it. But I'm not holding my breath.
Taiwan has been doing OK:
Quote:
As of Wednesday, the nation of Taiwan had recorded 100 cases of Covid-19, a remarkably low number given the island’s proximity to China. Some 2.71 million mainland Chinese visited Taiwan in 2019, and as recently as January there were a dozen round trip flights between Wuhan and Taipei every week. But despite its obvious vulnerabilities, Taiwan has managed, so far, to keep well ahead of the infectious curve through a combination of early response, pervasive screening, contact tracing, comprehensive testing, and the adroit use of technology.
Methinks Taiwan might enjoy a respect for fellow man and for governance that other countries lack. In another thread, an American denounces the California Governor for his "Stay Home" order. How can public health take precedence over Freedom™. (I didn't study details. Would the objection go away if the exemptions for "essential travel" included trips to purchase firearms and ammunition?)
  #135  
Old 03-21-2020, 01:29 AM
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Just pointing the obvious, what RitterSport said was that what he said does not imply that we should forget about what China did or is doing elsewhere. The point made by many does stand, in the USA it is not perfect to give Trump an out for attempting to use bigotry when even the ones helping the president tried to make him avoid falling for his usual ways of dividing the nation and his gross ignorance.
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Old 03-21-2020, 01:31 AM
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So exactly the same thing as the Trump administration did and is still doing. The



And how exactly does calling it a "China virus" change any of that? It's not a useful or descriptive term, it's a dog-whistle and an attempt to shift blame. The literal only reason Trump is doing it is because he can't continue claiming the virus is a Democratic hoax at this point, and God help if he's going to accept any responsibility for anything that goes wrong under his watch.
Dog-whistling to shift blame is exactly what the CCP is doing in response to Trump calling them out for shifting blame away from themselves.

So calling out dog-whisling to shift blame is good, unless Trump does it in which case is bad. Am I getting this right or should I page Vizzini to sort your logic out?
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Old 03-21-2020, 01:34 AM
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You keep using that straw man...

I do not think it shows what you think it shows.
  #138  
Old 03-21-2020, 01:34 AM
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Dog-whistling to shift blame is exactly what the CCP is doing in response to Trump calling them out for shifting blame away from themselves.

So calling out dog-whisling to shift blame is good, unless Trump does it in which case is bad. Am I getting this right or should I page Vizzini to sort your logic out?
What has more effect on our lives and our well-being? The president of this country deflecting blame and ignoring a crisis, or a conspiracy theory being waged by fringe politicians in another hemisphere?

I certainly don't see anyone in the news saying that they aren't going to self-quarantine because a Chinese politician said it came from America. I see plenty of people saying the virus isn't dangerous because Trump said it was a hoax or that it was under control.

Do you want to help minimize the damage that's going to happen to this country, or do you want to fiddle while Rome burns and look for a convenient scapegoat later.

Frankly, the "CCP" could start up a propaganda blitz saying that I personally created the coronavirus in my garage and I'd be less concerned about it than what Trump is and isn't doing.

Last edited by Smapti; 03-21-2020 at 01:36 AM.
  #139  
Old 03-21-2020, 01:56 AM
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Sammy buddy, n*gger didn't used to be considered racist either.
Except nobody is doing that . Wuhan is ground zero for the pandemic and it was the Chinese government who went after it’s own people trying to hush it up. If anybody is bending legitimate wording it would be you for referring to Sam Stone as “Sammy Buddy”. The poster’s name is Sam Stone and your response was belittling at best.

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Epidemiologists have not conclusively shown that Covid-19 originated in China. Maybe they will after the dust settles, and maybe it originated somewhere else in the globe and really got it's start in Wuhan.
Nobody is suggesting it originated in China. But clearly there was an epidemic in Wuhan China and it was hushed up by the Chinese government which turned it into a pandemic. That same government accused another government of deliberately creating and using a biological weapon to attack them. This is unconscionable on their part and of no small matter. The dust doesn’t have to settle on this point.

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Let's work on flattening the curve instead of blowing racist dog whistles. Mao on a pogo stick, China is critical to the global supply chain. Do you really want to be pissing off China now? It is entirely likely that your ventilator or a least a key part of ventaltors come from China.
If they’re critical to global supply and threaten to withhold products during a crisis they made worse then I would question the wisdom of pissing off the people you threaten. Chinese labor can be replaced and we have the capacity to build anything under the war powers act.

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There is a huge labor shortage in the supply chain, and there are going to be shortages that you can't imagine shutting down production around the world. We've already seen this with automobiles. So, do you really really really want to get in a pissing contest now with a country that just might decide that France or Italy or Germany or wherever is first in line to get a critical part instead of the US of A. And if I remember correctly, you're from Canada. Do you really think its a good idea to piss off your supplier when there is a shortage? Just so dear leader can talk smack at the daily Pravda propaganda press briefing and get fellated by his staff every day on national TV.
Wow, That’s an astounding thing to say. You’re basically threatening the United States in defense of a government who deliberately hushed up a deadly outbreak to save face and then accused others of creating the virus. To answer your question, yes. I’m not concerned about pissing off a supplier if the supplier is a government using political power to harm us. We don’t have to be their customer if it means they can harm us and then blame us for their misdeeds. There will be no “yes sir, may I have another”.

So far China has done the right thing once their mishandling of the situation came to light. And by China I mean the Chinese government. If that changes then it would not be in their interest to piss off their customers.

When you talk of countries like Germany consider our relationship with them versus countries that have used supplies as a political weapon. Russia has exerted political force over Poland with their control of natural gas. In response to a pipeline to Germany we have talked the German government into expanding their sea ports to handle import of natural gas. They will not have to rely on or be subject to economic threats. We supported them through the Berlin Airlift and will support them again if Russia tries to repeat their dominance over the region. Your threat to withhold medical supplies as a means of saving face for Xi Jinping rings hollow to the history of the United States.

Last edited by Magiver; 03-21-2020 at 01:57 AM.
  #140  
Old 03-21-2020, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
>Originally Posted by Ale
What they did during those three weeks, being an oppressive totalitarian government, was to cover up the situation and persecute people who tried to raise the alarm and now they are trying to shift the blame for political gain.

So exactly the same thing as the Trump administration did and is still doing.
The USA has disappeared no doctors who spoke out. Unless you have a US doctor who was told by the authorities to stop making false comments, like Li Wenliang? Has the US expelled any foreign journalists? Hating Trump is no excuse to post such a false equivalency.

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Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
>It's not about feelings, it's about the origins of a world wide disaster and efforts to rewrite history to the benefit of a totalitarian regime which is all to happy to play the race card as a distraction knowing that it will gobbled up hook, line and sinker by some people.

And how exactly does calling it a "China virus" change any of that? It's not a useful or descriptive term, it's a dog-whistle and an attempt to shift blame. The literal only reason Trump is doing it is because he can't continue claiming the virus is a Democratic hoax at this point, and God help if he's going to accept any responsibility for anything that goes wrong under his watch.
The narrative that he has done nothing is the hoax, not that the disease is a hoax. Calling it "China virus" is a pushback against China stating it came from Americans.

Last edited by sps49sd; 03-21-2020 at 01:58 AM.
  #141  
Old 03-21-2020, 02:03 AM
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The USA has disappeared no doctors who spoke out. Unless you have a US doctor who was told by the authorities to stop making false comments, like Li Wenliang? Has the US expelled any foreign journalists? Hating Trump is no excuse to post such a false equivalency.
Trump has fired and gutted our pandemic response experts, continues to dismiss the advice of experts in his administration, has held up testing because he thinks having a lower number of confirmed cases makes him look better, wanted to keep cruise ships stranded at sea to keep numbers down, claims the test kits WHO has made available are "bad" and inferior to the ones he has a financial stake in, continues to lie about the availability of tests, calls reporters "nasty" for asking him hard questions about his response and denied them access, tells the states they're on their own because he's "not a shipping clerk", has tried to blame Obama for his own actions, and continues to pretend that everything is fine, there's nothing to worry about, and his response has been "perfect".

Quote:
The narrative that he has done nothing is the hoax, not that the disease is a hoax. Calling it "China virus" is a pushback against China stating it came from Americans.
So your argument is "HE STARTED IT!", then?

Last edited by Smapti; 03-21-2020 at 02:07 AM.
  #142  
Old 03-21-2020, 02:38 AM
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Of COURSE calling COVID-19 "the Chinese virus" isn't racist and doesn't promote racism. People in Europe and the Americas being beaten and shunned because they're suspected of being Asian - just ignore that. Only flukes.
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Old 03-21-2020, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
What has more effect on our lives and our well-being? The president of this country deflecting blame and ignoring a crisis, or a conspiracy theory being waged by fringe politicians in another hemisphere?

I certainly don't see anyone in the news saying that they aren't going to self-quarantine because a Chinese politician said it came from America. I see plenty of people saying the virus isn't dangerous because Trump said it was a hoax or that it was under control.

Do you want to help minimize the damage that's going to happen to this country, or do you want to fiddle while Rome burns and look for a convenient scapegoat later.

Frankly, the "CCP" could start up a propaganda blitz saying that I personally created the coronavirus in my garage and I'd be less concerned about it than what Trump is and isn't doing.
"What has more effect on our lives and our well-being?"

On the one hand Trump being non PC on the other the CCP continuing to suppress and distort information which is the thing that contributed to the outbreak and spread of the virus in the first place.
That had a pretty frikkin' big effect throughout the entire planet, didn't it?

It's amazing to see the cognitive dissonance at play, the CCP seeks to use the US as a scapegoat, plain as daylight; you outright state you don't care what goes on over there and yet in you come complaining about me of looking for scapegoats and ignoring things.

And "Fringe politicians"?, the spokesman for the Chinese Foreign Affairs Ministry, really? A regime infamous for it's iron grip on what is allowed to be said (which as pointed was one of the factors that created the current situation), and you hand wave that away as some fringe politician, presumably not representative of what the Chinese Communist Party line is?
I guarantee you if the CCP didn't want that man to say those things he wouldn't be their spokesman, he'd be an organ donor.

And yeah, I can see you care not one jot about the use of propaganda against you by a foreign country. Propaganda that includes threats like this:

From Xinhua, that official news agency of the People's Republic of China:
If China retaliates against the United States at this time, in addition to announcing a travel ban on the United States, it will also announce strategic control over medical products and ban exports to the United States. Then the United States will be caught in the ocean of new crown viruses.
...
The implication is that at this time, as long as China announces that its drugs are as domestic as possible and banned exports, the United States will fall into the hell of the new crown pneumonia epidemic.


By the way, I'm neither in the US or a US citizen, perhaps that's why I'm not interested in being dragged down by the counterproductive, navel-gazing, Pavlovian reactions you have going on and prefer seeing the bigger picture.

The bigger picture is that a regime that has this to say about liberal democracy should not be cut any slack when they engage in propaganda to further their goals.

The China Daily, ("owned by the Publicity Department of the Communist Party of China and published in the People's Republic of China")
"The wish for Western-style liberal democracy is a malignant virus that infects places with weakened ideological immune systems."

You are obsessed with one man, I'm looking at geopolitics that play out over many years and,so is the Chinese Communist Party; so if you keep things like this over the US everyone loses as the CCP makes gains.
  #144  
Old 03-21-2020, 05:19 AM
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The bigger picture is that a regime that has this to say about liberal democracy should not be cut any slack when they engage in propaganda to further their goals.
I'm not "cutting them slack". I'm ignoring them, because their propaganda is worth as much as North Korea does when it claims that UN food aid is tribute being paid to Kim Jong-Un.

Pretending that their internal propaganda is of any importance only empowers it.

Frankly, I'm not sure what you even expect to gain by doubling down on this "IT'S ALL THE CHICOM'S FAULT" angle. Are we going to go to war with China now because their government mishandled a viral outbreak? Will the mass utterance of the magic words "Chinese virus" somehow cow the Chinese government and people into bailing out the cruise ship industry? Is the ghost of Deng Xiaoping going to descend from the celestial realm to personally apologize to Donald Trump?

What, precisely, is your endgame here other than "tell the dastardly Yellow Peril what for"?

Last edited by Smapti; 03-21-2020 at 05:24 AM.
  #145  
Old 03-21-2020, 05:53 AM
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On the one hand Trump being non PC on the other the CCP continuing to suppress and distort information which is the thing that contributed to the outbreak and spread of the virus in the first place.
That had a pretty frikkin' big effect throughout the entire planet, didn't it?
...Trump isn't simply being "non PC." Trump is disseminating propaganda. Trump and his administration are guilty of suppressing and distorting information. Trump lies at every single press briefing. The constant disinformation broadcast from the White House is going to get Americans killed.

We get it. You think "China bad." But the actions of the Chinese government are irrelevant to the general context of this thread. This thread is about the language Trump and his administration have chosen to use, and how that usage is being used both as propaganda and a dog whistle to his many racist followers. The actions of the Chinese administration might have had (comparatively) "a pretty frikkin' big effect throughout the entire planet." The actions of the Trump administration is going to have a devastating effect on the lives of the American people and none of those devastating effects can be laid at the feet of the Chinese.
  #146  
Old 03-21-2020, 06:12 AM
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No need to get a warning out of this (I say, as I was close to getting one myself as my first response to being called a Trump supporter). The thing is, you have to ask...WHY is Trump et al calling it the 'Chinese virus'? Is it because Trump hate's Chinese people? Doubtful, though who knows with him? Is it a dog whistle? Maybe. But to me the Occam's Razor answer is he's doing it as a reaction to the shit China has been saying about the US over the last few months. Stuff like the US didn't offer to help in the early days (which is a lie...the CDC did make such an offer, which the Chinese turned down, probably...mostly...because they didn't want them to see how much of a cluster fuck this is. The WHO was a MUCH better choice, being bought and paid for). Or the latest stuff, from Chinese state run media, health officials (CCP officials IOW) and even a state diplomat either stating right out there or making the implication that the virus either originated in the US or was deliberately spread in Wuhan by the US. So...people ARE saying and trying to change the narrative that this DIDN'T originate or come from Wuhan or China. This isn't a right wing fantasy...the CCP is absolutely trying to change this narrative and seem to have picked the US (probably more for internal reasons, but the bonus is how our media is picking up on this stuff, especially when the WHO plays along with some of their bullshit and gives them a veneer of credibility) as the target for the shift.
This post, in both style and substance, better resembles a conspiratorial screed than a good argument.

The answer to "why would Trump call it the Chinese virus?: has already been answered. He's deflecting blame. He has a stated enmity with China. He's doing exactly what China is doing in your post where they claim that the disease originated in the US.

The idea that the WHO is owned by China is straight out of a right wing conspiracy. They are part of the UN. They came up with this policy years ago because they noticed that naming viruses after places (same as naming them after animals) often led to incorrect assumptions.

Not calling it the Wuhan virus does not in any way deny that it started in Wuhan. Not calling it the Chinese virus does not in any way deny that it started in China. Every article about the virus or disease indicated it started in Wuhan, China. Renaming the virus would be a stupid way to try and hide that.

And then you ignore that the claim that it started in the US was new for China. China had previously admitted that it started in Wuhan. They were doing this back when the disease was named COVID-19. So, if the WHO was trying to hide the origin, they would have been going against what China wanted at that time.

Nothing in your small wall of text really holds up. There are better explanations that do, and they don't require any conspiracy between China and the WHO.
  #147  
Old 03-21-2020, 07:53 AM
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BTW, the World Health Organization is heavily influenced by China, and the WHO's initial response to the virus downplayed it and basically repeated the Chinese line for some time until reality became unavoidable.
US intelligence realized as early as January that the situation was out of control, and they knew that, in all likelihood, the contagion had spread well beyond China's borders and quite probably circulated within the global aviation system. Trump and some of his surrogates downplayed it - at a time when they were in a position to mitigate its spread.

More than that, compare the situation in the United States to those of South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, Germany, and other advanced countries. We failed to take it seriously. We failed to prepare for a pandemic response, despite having the capability to do so and the federal level's awareness that the situation was a very real possibility as late as last year.
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Old 03-21-2020, 08:48 AM
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I'm not "cutting them slack". I'm ignoring them, because their propaganda is worth as much as North Korea does when it claims that UN food aid is tribute being paid to Kim Jong-Un.

Pretending that their internal propaganda is of any importance only empowers it.

Frankly, I'm not sure what you even expect to gain by doubling down on this "IT'S ALL THE CHICOM'S FAULT" angle. Are we going to go to war with China now because their government mishandled a viral outbreak? Will the mass utterance of the magic words "Chinese virus" somehow cow the Chinese government and people into bailing out the cruise ship industry? Is the ghost of Deng Xiaoping going to descend from the celestial realm to personally apologize to Donald Trump?

What, precisely, is your endgame here other than "tell the dastardly Yellow Peril what for"?
Aaaanddd there it is, the accusations of racism, how fitting to the topic.
  #149  
Old 03-21-2020, 09:26 AM
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Sammy buddy, n*gger didn't used to be considered racist either.
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Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
Except nobody is doing that . Wuhan is ground zero for the pandemic and it was the Chinese government who went after it’s own people trying to hush it up. If anybody is bending legitimate wording it would be you for referring to Sam Stone as “Sammy Buddy”.
Hmmmm… looking at the bit you quoted from China Guy and at what you wrote that I helpfully bolded, I see that the two things don't match up.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 03-21-2020 at 09:29 AM.
  #150  
Old 03-21-2020, 11:15 AM
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I clicked the links above; the claim that China blames U.S. for the coronavirus appears to be absurdly wrong. What gives? XT?

Another news article did draw a connection between America's media and China:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CNN
At Thursday's coronavirus press briefing, Trump smeared The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and The Washington Post.
"They're very dishonest," Trump claimed.
Trump then praised a far-right media outlet, saying it is "very good" and noting, "They treat me very nicely."
The right-wing personality from that media outlet falsely said major newsrooms had "teamed up" with the Chinese Communist Party to attack Trump.
The person then asked, "Is it alarming that major media players that just oppose you are consistently siding with foreign state propaganda, Islamic radicals and Latin gangs and cartels?"

Instead of rebuking the right-wing personality for the question, Trump on Thursday boasted that he had canceled the White House's subscriptions to the country's major newspapers.
"It amazes me when I read the things that I read," Trump said Thursday. "It amazes me when I read The Wall Street Journal which is so negative and The New York Times, I barely read it. We don't distribute it in the White House, and the same with The Washington Post."
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