Straight Dope Message Board

[dropzone]

But it's a bullseye in my wheelhouse. Spoiler:

SPOILER:

Ford wins and the leads all survive til mid June, but don't get too attached to Ken Miles (Christian Bale). "So it goes," was the mantra for auto racing enthusiasts until recently.

The good news is that THERE IS NO CGI! It's real cars making really loud noises and back then scaring the bejeezus out of Henry II.

It's getting good reviews and I regret I won't see it in a theater, but I know the story.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6hWrPtUxO2M 1

[Skywatcher]

Here are Matt Damon and Jay Leno talking about the movie. 2

[Equipoise]

Originally Posted by dropzone

It's getting good reviews and I regret I won't see it in a theater, but I know the story.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6hWrPtUxO2M

Yeah, and I DIDN'T know the story because I don't follow racing, but I like the actors, so thanks for fucking spoiling it in the first paragraph. That's a dick move.

I have a reservation on my A*List to see it the day it opens at the Navy Pier IMAX. I'll go cancel that now. I'll see it at some point while it's still in the theater, probably using my Regal Unlimited, but thanks to your spoiler it went from Highest Priority to Lowest Priority. 3

[dropzone]

Aw, hell, the movie seems to end in June and

SPOILER:

Miles didn't die til August.

Seeing it spoiled lets you feel the foreboding race fans in the day felt every Sunday, back when a driver, very possibly your favorite, died every week. 4

[China Guy]

I am so gonna see this. I'm old enough to remember the original story. And in high school my buddy borrowed his dad's Shelby mustang to do a "lawn job" and it was fucking incredible. 5

[Gatopescado]

Originally Posted by Equipoise

Yeah, and I DIDN'T know the story because I don't follow racing, but I like the actors, so thanks for fucking spoiling it in the first paragraph. That's a dick move.

Hey, it was '50-50'. Not a big deal.

I'm skeptical about no CGI. But I'll watch it. Only movie I've been interested in since Rush.

(but I'll wait till its free somewhere) 6

[Hampshire]

I like movies like this and Rush and The World’s Fastest Indian but they seem to have very limited appeal to a wide audience. I’m a 50 year-old white male so I suppose I fit the demographic. Do they expect this movie to make much? They seem to be spending a lot of money on marketing for a movie that I don’t think a lot of people really care to see. 7

[mixdenny]

I dunno as I have only seen the trailer but that red car crashing seems to careen way too fast for real life.

Dennis 8

[madsircool]

Originally Posted by Equipoise

Yeah, and I DIDN'T know the story because I don't follow racing, but I like the actors, so thanks for fucking spoiling it in the first paragraph. That's a dick move.

I have a reservation on my A*List to see it the day it opens at the Navy Pier IMAX. I'll go cancel that now. I'll see it at some point while it's still in the theater, probably using my Regal Unlimited, but thanks to your spoiler it went from Highest Priority to Lowest Priority.

Please let me save you $15 more. The Americans defeated the Japanese at Midway. You cant spoil a true story. 9

[Beckdawrek]

I'm way outside the demographic but it looks interesting to me. Maybe it's the ads and trailers. I'm a sucker for a well placed and a well made ad. I'll see it. 10

[Chronos]

[Moderating]
The words "spoiler alert", followed immediately by the spoiler, really don't accomplish anything, and people are especially not going to be expecting spoilers from a thread titled "I haven't seen it yet". So I've added spoiler tags. 11

[dropzone]

You're no fun anymore. 12

[Doug K.]

Originally Posted by Chronos

[Moderating]
The words "spoiler alert", followed immediately by the spoiler, really don't accomplish anything, and people are especially not going to be expecting spoilers from a thread titled "I haven't seen it yet". So I've added spoiler tags.

Doesn't help. The spoiler still shows in the mouseover. 13

[dropzone]

So don't mouseover. Anyway hasn't it always done that? 14

[Chronos]

OK, that should fix the mouseover. 15

[HyacinthBucket]

CBS Sunday Morning did a spot on it maybe 40-45 minutes into the program today. Looks good. The CBS site will have it available later today or tomorrow and if you have Comcast they usually rerun the entire program a few hours later on something called "Pop", 11:30 AM Central.

Too bad they had to spoil the show with a Nicky Haley interview. "Well, the deal never went through so what's the problem?" Blah blah blah. 16

[Novelty Bobble]

Strange this one, I was brought up on such motor-racing stories and should be champing at the bit but I'm not.

It is a plucky British success story (OK, American-British but you can't use plucky so easily if the USA is involved) against the arrogance of uber-tosser Enzo Ferrari.
Trouble is, Miles was as big a knob as Ferrari so I'm not sure I'd be propoerly bought into it. 17

[Gatopescado]

Originally Posted by mixdenny

I dunno as I have only seen the trailer but that red car crashing seems to careen way too fast for real life.

Dennis

I finally just got around to watching the trailer, and I'm pretty sure that is chock-full of CGI. 18

[dropzone]

Originally Posted by mixdenny

I dunno as I have only seen the trailer but that red car crashing seems to careen way too fast for real life.

Dennis

What's way too fast when it was going about 300 km/hr and was made out of Coke cans? 19

[Patch]

Originally Posted by Gatopescado

I finally just got around to watching the trailer, and I'm pretty sure that is chock-full of CGI.

Watched a behind the scenes clip showing one of the car crashes.

SPOILER:

When the car flew through the air it was a lightweight car body and internal frame shot off an air cannon.

I assume that yes, there will be CGI in the movie as it's everywhere these days, but they appear to be doing practical effects the best they can with CGI rounding off the edges. I much prefer that approach, and I hope that's indeed what they're doing, as in my experience entirely CGI cars appear to move funny. 20

[River Hippie]

My benchmark for auto racing movies is Grand Prix from 1966. Sure, it had a sappy love story (stories) tacked on but the racing sequences are spectacular because they were actual race cars, filmed at speed, on the real tracks and the filmed cars were driven by the actors in a lot of the scenes. I last watched it five or more years ago and felt like the racing scenes really held up. It was for me, the golden age of Formula 1.
I am definitely going to watch Ford vs. Ferrari but probably not until it comes to streaming. 21

[Pork Rind]

Originally Posted by River Hippie

My benchmark for auto racing movies is Grand Prix from 1966. Sure, it had a sappy love story (stories) tacked on but the racing sequences are spectacular because they were actual race cars, filmed at speed, on the real tracks and the filmed cars were driven by the actors in a lot of the scenes. I last watched it five or more years ago and felt like the racing scenes really held up. It was for me, the golden age of Formula 1.

Between that movie and Le Mans, you've got me covered. Maybe add Ron Howard's Rush, which also notably used a lot of the actual period cars in filming.

I want to go back and watch Grand Prix again now, just because it's been a while and because Wikipedia reminds me of the overflowing wealth of driving talent that appears on screen...

The film includes real-life racing footage and cameo appearances by drivers including Formula One World Champions Phil Hill, Graham Hill, Juan Manuel Fangio, Jim Clark, Jochen Rindt and Jack Brabham. Other drivers who appeared in the film include Dan Gurney, Ludovico Scarfiotti, Richie Ginther, Joakim Bonnier, Bruce McLaren and Jo Siffert.

Just look at this one scene. Graham Hill, Jochen Rindt, James Garner, Dan Gurney, Bruce McLaren, Antonio Sabato, Jo Siffert! 22

[River Hippie]

Originally Posted by Pork Rind

Between that movie and Le Mans, you've got me covered. Maybe add Ron Howard's Rush, which also notably used a lot of the actual period cars in filming.

I want to go back and watch Grand Prix again now, just because it's been a while and because Wikipedia reminds me of the overflowing wealth of driving talent that appears on screen...



Just look at this one scene. Graham Hill, Jochen Rindt, James Garner, Dan Gurney, Bruce McLaren, Antonio Sabato, Jo Siffert!

I've never seen Rush, I need to check it out sometime. 23

[River Hippie]

Another fun fact about Grand Prix, all the actors that played drivers went to a real race car driving school and James Garner was very, very good at it. Brian Bedford was not very good and that is why his face is obscured by goggles and a balaclava in his "driving" scenes. It's actually a stunt driver. 24

[Skywatcher]

Fun fact about Ford v Ferrari: Alex Gurney plays Dan. 25

[Spud]

I'm fully aware of the story and I'm still very excited to see this on opening night. I got my tickets a few weeks ago so we could get our preferred seats in our favorite theater. Flix Brewhouse... great food and beer brewed on site. 26

[scabpicker]

Originally Posted by River Hippie

My benchmark for auto racing movies is Grand Prix from 1966. Sure, it had a sappy love story (stories) tacked on but the racing sequences are spectacular because they were actual race cars, filmed at speed, on the real tracks and the filmed cars were driven by the actors in a lot of the scenes. I last watched it five or more years ago and felt like the racing scenes really held up. It was for me, the golden age of Formula 1.
I am definitely going to watch Ford vs. Ferrari but probably not until it comes to streaming.

Yep, still have a copy of that. Great racing movie. I might drag my wife out to the theater for this one. She's enough of a gearhead that she'd know what's going on. 27

[Dead Cat]

Originally Posted by River Hippie

I've never seen Rush, I need to check it out sometime.

You do. I'm more of a racing fan than a movie buff, but I'd say it succeeds as a movie in its own right (even if you know the ending). Very good performances by the lead actors. For a car nut, it's great.

Surprised I'm the first to mention Senna, which also deserves a place in the Pantheon of great racing movies. Bit different from the others in that it's much more of a true documentary, largely using period footage rather than recreating it. But it's none the worse for that, of course. 28

[Novelty Bobble]

Originally Posted by Pork Rind

Just look at this one scene. Graham Hill, Jochen Rindt, James Garner, Dan Gurney, Bruce McLaren, Antonio Sabato, Jo Siffert!

Is it just me or does Rindt look about 12? 29

[Novelty Bobble]

Originally Posted by Dead Cat

You do. I'm more of a racing fan than a movie buff, but I'd say it succeeds as a movie in its own right (even if you know the ending). Very good performances by the lead actors. For a car nut, it's great.

Surprised I'm the first to mention Senna, which also deserves a place in the Pantheon of great racing movies. Bit different from the others in that it's much more of a true documentary, largely using period footage rather than recreating it. But it's none the worse for that, of course.

Agree with all of this and I'd also recommend (again.....I've said it before) the BBC documentary "Grand Prix - the killer years" I don't think anyone's F1 education is complete without it, but it is a tough, tough watch. Not overly gruesome, but brutally honest. 30

[Novelty Bobble]

Originally Posted by Pork Rind

Just look at this one scene. Graham Hill, Jochen Rindt, James Garner, Dan Gurney, Bruce McLaren, Antonio Sabato, Jo Siffert!

And considering the last link that I posted it is a sobering thought to realise that out of the 5 drivers in that scene, 4 died before their time. 3 died whilst racing and Graham Hill in a plane crash. 31

[River Hippie]

Originally Posted by Skywatcher

Fun fact about Ford v Ferrari: Alex Gurney plays Dan.

That is a fun fact! 32

[River Hippie]

I heard an interview with Matt Damon about the movie on NPR today. He talked a little about the insurance companies influence on filming. When Fankenheimer was filming Grand Prix in '66, the actors personal auto policy was probably considered enough coverage. 33

[Spud]

I saw it last night... great movie! If you are a car person or into racing history at all you will love it. 34

[Spud]

A quick heads up. My wife knew that I knew the story and asked me not to spoil it for her... until the movie was in progress.

SPOILER:

She wanted to know if Ken died and actually started to leave because I wouldn't tell her and was going to be very upset if he did. I thought it would just go through the race so I eventually assured her that he didn't... but the movie continued until when he died during testing

35

[Just Asking Questions]

Just got back from it.

Of course they altered some things. Not as many as I expected, so that's something.*

Question: can no one make a race movie anymore without innumerable closeup shots of gear shifts? At least (unlike the Daytone 500 scenes in Days of Thunder) Le mans drivers actually do shift a lot.

For a good companion piece, read Go Like Hell by A. J. Baime.

SPOILER:

*Miles didn't crash the Ferrari, its gearbox went out. Miles didn't burn to death ("sometime you don't get out of the car") but was thrown clear with so much force the seat belts ripped out. The finish was more spread out, and the officials were both in on the tie and realized McLaren would win even before the finish.

36

[Stephe96]

Saw it and really enjoyed it. I don’t know anything about the world of cars/racing so I have one question (not really a spoiler): what was the significance of the photographer? Who did he show those pictures to and why? 37

[Just Asking Questions]

Originally Posted by Stephe96

Saw it and really enjoyed it. I don’t know anything about the world of cars/racing so I have one question (not really a spoiler): what was the significance of the photographer? Who did he show those pictures to and why?

He showed them to the head of Fiat, who was vying to buy Ferrari. Ford was just there to make Fiat up their bid - it's implied Ferrari never intended to sell to Ford.

incidentally, Fiat still owns 90% of Ferrari. The rest is by Enzo's (illegitimate*) son.

*those wacky, romantic, passionate Italians! 38

[Stephe96]

Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions

Ford was just there to make Fiat up their bid - it's implied Ferrari never intended to sell to Ford.!

Do you mean Ford was in on it? If that’s true, I totally missed it. I thought the Ford guys were sincere about the deal. 39

[sps49sd]

Originally Posted by Novelty Bobble

Strange this one, I was brought up on such motor-racing stories and should be champing at the bit but I'm not.

It is a plucky British success story (OK, American-British but you can't use plucky so easily if the USA is involved) against the arrogance of uber-tosser Enzo Ferrari.
Trouble is, Miles was as big a knob as Ferrari so I'm not sure I'd be propoerly bought into it.

Does the movie mention it was mostly BritFord, not USA Ford?

Although nothing says 'Murican like a V-8. 40

[Just Asking Questions]

Originally Posted by Stephe96

Do you mean Ford was in on it? If that’s true, I totally missed it. I thought the Ford guys were sincere about the deal.

Ford was sincere. Ferrari was not. 41

[Johnny L.A.]

Ford v Ferrari
A review by Johnny L.A.


Good movie. Nice cars.

SPOILER:

I couldn't resist. More to come.

42

[Johnny L.A.]

I'm not a huge racing fan. When I suggested to Mrs. L.A. that we see Ford v Ferrari she said, 'I thought you didn't like racing.' Actually, I do not like NASCAR. ('Rednecks turning left', 'NeckCar'.) I do like watching F1, CART, and Grand Prix (and motorcycles), though I haven't watched a race in years. I currently have an MGB, and I used to have a Porsche 911SC. I like cars.

We went to see Ford v Ferrari yesterday afternoon. I went for the cars, and I think that Mrs. L.A. went because she likes Christian Bale and Matt Damon. She also tends to like true stories. We both enjoyed it. She enjoyed it so much, she spent the rest of the evening reading about the competition, Carroll Shelby, Ken Miles, and others online. Many names were familiar to us. Mrs. L.A. wondered how many of the young people in the audience knew who Lee Iacocca was.

Early in the film I whispered to her, 'That looks like Willow Springs.' See, we used to live in the Antelope Valley and I'd been to motorcycle races there. (Her dad took her to Saugus frequently, so she had never gone to Willow Springs.) Not being a huge racing fan, all I knew about Le Mans 1966 was that Ford fielded a car that finally beat Ferrari. I didn't know the backstory. In the film, I assumed that Willow Springs Raceway was standing in, in a generic manner, for some other track. Moments after I whispered my comment to Mrs. L.A., they said it was Willow Springs in the film. That was pretty cool; both that they filmed the scenes where we used to live, and that some racing history really was made there.

During the climactic race, I was surprised to see a Porsche 911. There really was a 911 in the race, a private entry by a French driver, number 35. (Porsche entered the 906.)

Of course I picked out the '70s-model Cessna Skyhawk at Santa Monica Airport. It was just there, in the background and out of focus. It had nothing to do with the movie, but... Pilot.

The film had several chuckles. There was the NASCAR 'turning left' put-down, the aftermath of the wrench-throwing scene, and others. Both of us liked the scene where Ken Miles's wife started driving their station wagon like a race car.

I need more coffee, so I'll just say that Ford v Ferrari is a thoroughly enjoyable show. Good movie. Nice cars. 43

[Just Asking Questions]

Originally Posted by Johnny L.A.

Of course I picked out the '70s-model Cessna Skyhawk at Santa Monica Airport. It was just there, in the background and out of focus. It had nothing to do with the movie, but... Pilot.

Ha! Well, back at you - I'm pretty sure the Peterbilt cabover hooked up to the (I can't be sure but 1980's possibly vintage) car hauler full of Fords was a 1970s vintage.

And I must say - the scene where Miles was at Shelby listening to the race, and the passing plane's lights made the trailer full of cars looks like there were Ford GTs driving behind him was pretty well done! 44

[Bullitt]

I saw it and thoroughly enjoyed it. I love the cars, and enjoyed seeing all the 1960s and some 50s cars. I’ve got a Porsche 356, and enjoyed Shelby driving his red one.

One question, it wasn’t clear to me and maybe it was explained in the film and I missed it, but when the GT40 is first introduced in the movie, it is shown with a jet plane in the background (this isn’t my question but was that a Lockheed L-1011?). My question is, where did the GT40 come from? There wasn’t any story about it being created and built. Did they buy it from another company? 45

[Just Asking Questions]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

I saw it and thoroughly enjoyed it. I love the cars, and enjoyed seeing all the 1960s and some 50s cars. I’ve got a Porsche 356, and enjoyed Shelby driving his red one.

One question, it wasn’t clear to me and maybe it was explained in the film and I missed it, but when the GT40 is first introduced in the movie, it is shown with a jet plane in the background (this isn’t my question but was that a Lockheed L-1011?). My question is, where did the GT40 come from? There wasn’t any story about it being created and built. Did they buy it from another company?

As with many things in the movie, they kind of glossed over that.

Ford went to Lola before they went to Shelby. The first GTs were made in collaboration with Lola. These were the ones that failed to finish Le Mans. THEN they were given intact to Shelby. 46

[Johnny L.A.]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

One question, it wasn’t clear to me and maybe it was explained in the film and I missed it, but when the GT40 is first introduced in the movie, it is shown with a jet plane in the background (this isn’t my question but was that a Lockheed L-1011?). My question is, where did the GT40 come from? There wasn’t any story about it being created and built. Did they buy it from another company?

I'm not sure about the aircraft, but it's not an L-1011. The L-1011 had a conventional empennage, and the movie plane has a T-tail. I'm thinking Boeing 727.

The GT40 was built by Lola in England, using a 289 Ford Fairlane engine (same as in the Lola GT). 47

[Bullitt]

Thank you both. And Johnny, T-tail and not a conventional empennage, yeah probably a 727, got it, thanks. 48

[Spud]

So does anyone know what became of the douche-bag Ford exec? I kept hoping that Shelby would tell him he was fired and Henry would back him up. 49

[Johnny L.A.]

Originally Posted by Spud

So does anyone know what became of the douche-bag Ford exec? I kept hoping that Shelby would tell him he was fired and Henry would back him up.

According to Screen Rant:

In the film, Beebe is portrayed as the active instigator of this historic moment having been shown as a bureaucratic toady with a personal grudge against Miles and Shelby. Rather than the moment being symbolic of overall corporate meddling and the desire for a good image over the team’s victory, the finish is shown as the smug decision of middle management. It’s a disappointingly conventional biopic moment in a film that’s at its best when it rejects those tropes. In 2016, Frank Comstock, a friend of Leo Beebe, wrote of his vilification over the Le Mans victory and how much his own involvement in the project was denied by history.

This article indicates Beebe got a bum steer in the film. People who knew him had positive things to say about him. As for his career:

At the very least, they want people to know that he had an accomplished life after moving to the Philadelphia area, living both on the Main Line and in South Jersey. Beebe headed Ford’s racing team in the mid-1960s, then came here to head the area’s Philco-Ford operations. He retired from the company in 1972 but was never idle, and took a job as an adjunct professor at Glassboro State (now Rowan). In short order, he helped establish the business school, and eventually became its dean.

50