Straight Dope Message Board

[Lucas Jackson]

Originally Posted by enalzi

Honestly, losing out might not be the worst strategy.

Yep. 101

[enalzi]

Originally Posted by Lucas Jackson

Sort of. I don’t believe anyone but her knew it though.

Yeah, but then she would have to decide what to do. Does she reveal it to the rest of her alliance? Does she just keep it secret and hope they can flip a vote? 102

[DrDeth]

Originally Posted by PunditLisa

...
Karishma sucks at ALL the challenges, she is lazy around camp, AND she does nothing but whine about how she's an outcast. Please let her go home.

And I don't understand why team after team continues to vote off strong players ahead of people who suck in challenges. The goal now should be to bond with players and win challenges so that your team has the advantage post-merge.

I think the Sandra/BostonRob mentor thing is pretty much a bust. ...

Yep. gonegirl.

Yeah, you vote off strong players AFTER the merge.

Yeah, and I dont like Sandra. 103

[Wheelz]

Originally Posted by PunditLisa

I usually am sympathetic with players who are clearly on the outs, but in Karishma's case, it's so deserved. I mean, Cochran sucked at physical challenges, but he could do puzzles. And he was witty and self-deprecating, which helped redeem his shortcomings.

Karishma sucks at ALL the challenges, she is lazy around camp, AND she does nothing but whine about how she's an outcast.

Agreed. I want to like Karishma, but she makes it very difficult. She has zero in the way of physical, social, or strategic game. I mean, what else is there?

However, I don't think Tom was a bad vote. It's true that he probably would have given the old Vokai the most to worry about post-merge. True, it's a bit of a double-edged sword in that it weakens their tribe a bit, but it's not as if Tom was exactly burning up the challenges either.

It's a bit disappointing that neither Tom, Dean, nor Karishma even tried (at least that they showed us) to find any cracks in the Vokai. It may not have worked, but I would have at least started a conversation about how things were at the old camp: "So, Kellee, sounds like you and Janet don't really trust Jamal. Now might be a good time to blindside him, and it'll still be 4-3 at the next vote." I usually like players who try to shake things up like that, instead of the passive "anybody but me" approach. 104

[Lucas Jackson]

Originally Posted by Wheelz

It's a bit disappointing that neither Tom, Dean, nor Karishma even tried (at least that they showed us) to find any cracks in the Vokai. It may not have worked, but I would have at least started a conversation about how things were at the old camp..

I’m always disappointed when players don’t try but a couple of points...

Karishma sort of did, she flipped. She’s effectively part of the team (for now). I’m betting that Dean went along with them conversationally as well. (The old Survivor adage: “as long as it’s not me”). I’m pretty sure Tom thought the vote was locked for Karishma so he didn’t try.

Also, maybe they did but it got edited. The show has gotten out of control with its trick-fuck editing, imho. 105

[DrDeth]

Originally Posted by Wheelz

Agreed. I want to like Karishma, but she makes it very difficult. She has zero in the way of physical, social, or strategic game. I mean, what else is there?
..

She tried the old "feel sorry for me ploy" which actually is often a reason to boot someone. 106

[Wheelz]

Originally Posted by Lucas Jackson

Karishma sort of did, she flipped. She’s effectively part of the team (for now). I’m betting that Dean went along with them conversationally as well. (The old Survivor adage: “as long as it’s not me”). I’m pretty sure Tom thought the vote was locked for Karishma so he didn’t try.

It's easy to understand why Karishma had no loyalty toward Tom or Dean. Still, agreeing to go along with the majority is not exactly a bold move - nor is simply taking for granted that one of three people will automatically be screwed because of an unlucky buff draw. I like to see more creative thinking than that. 107

[notfrommensa]

Originally Posted by enalzi

Honestly, losing out might not be the worst strategy. The other tribe is 4-4, and they don't know what's going on over there. If they win, the other tribe might end up knocking out a bunch of old Vokai. If they lose the next two, getting rid of the old Lairo, it would be a better post-merge situation.

That would be the strategy if they knew they were merging when there are 13 left.

But if they merge at 12, and they lose out, then they have to vote one of their own out. Which in this case, would probably be Noura, or someone strong and like-able, like surfer Dude Jack. 108

[Lucas Jackson]

Originally Posted by Wheelz

I like to see more creative thinking than that.

Sure, you would for entertainment value (me too) but Karishma And Dean have a real world shot at a million dollars. Potentially pissing people off trying to divide them or stirring the pot and drawing attention to yourself in that situation is the more risky strategy vs flipping. 109

[Jas09]

Originally Posted by notfrommensa

That would be the strategy if they knew they were merging when there are 13 left.

But if they merge at 12, and they lose out, then they have to vote one of their own out. Which in this case, would probably be Noura, or someone strong and like-able, like surfer Dude Jack.

Sure, but neither of those two have been presented as bright enough to figure that out (or as the primary decision-makers, to be honest). The folks making the decisions for old Vokai (seemingly Kellee and Jamal) hopefully did some math and figured out that 8-4 at the merge isn't that bad for them, and likely are holding out those two (or at least Noura) as a possible "easy" boot if they do end up losing the next three. 110

[jsc1953]

Isn’t it spelled “do-rag”? As in hairdo? 111

[muldoonthief]

That's what I thought too. It took me a minute to figure it out, since I didn't hear him well the first time. Googling indicates both spellings are in use, though "do-rag" is the original spelling.

And I had no idea it would be racist to use the term.

With that out of the way - I can't believe how upset the 4 Vokai were when Elaine pulled out the Vote Block. To the point of physical pain. Seriously, they were saying things like "I've never been so frightened in my entire life." If they can't handle a surprise or two, they're not going to go as far as they think.

Secondly, there's nothing I hate more than when players take it as a personal insult that the players they're conspiring to vote out turn the tables on them. Sure, be angry you got outplayed. But be angry at the twist of fate, or yourself for not considering all the angles. But being angry at your opponent because they want to win the game too just pisses me off. Goddamn crybabies is all they are - my kids got over that kind of bullshit before they were 10. 112

[Noelq]

Originally Posted by muldoonthief

That's what I thought too. It took me a minute to figure it out, since I didn't hear him well the first time. Googling indicates both spellings are in use, though "do-rag" is the original spelling.

And I had no idea it would be racist to use the term..

I, too, thought it was do-rag. As in, a rag, that you do things with. 113

[sohvan]

Originally Posted by muldoonthief

Secondly, there's nothing I hate more than when players take it as a personal insult that the players they're conspiring to vote out turn the tables on them. Sure, be angry you got outplayed. But be angry at the twist of fate, or yourself for not considering all the angles. But being angry at your opponent because they want to win the game too just pisses me off. Goddamn crybabies is all they are - my kids got over that kind of bullshit before they were 10.

This is definitely annoying. It's somewhat understandable to have a strong reaction if you are backstabbed by a close ally, but expecting your enemies to just roll over and get voted out for your benefit is silly. It seems to happen more often with tribes that win a lot of challenges and rarely need to go to Tribal. 114

[Wheelz]

Originally Posted by Noelq

I, too, thought it was do-rag. As in, a rag, that you do things with.

Or, a rag for your hair-do.

Far be it for me to claim expertise in such matters, but my take was not necessarily that the term itself is considered racist, but that specifically calling the black man's buff a "do-rag" was tone deaf at best. And Jack was wise enough to own that right away. And Jamal was wise enough to see an opportunity for learning and growth. Too often (in real life as well as in the game) people simply lock into "I'm offended" mode and can't move on. This seemed like a genuine human moment, and I liked it.

This whole episode was enjoyable. Elaine is a riot, and I hope she goes far.
It's always fun to see players who go into Tribal way too cocky get knocked down a peg or two. While I concur with muldoonthief that their reactions were a bit over-the-top, that just made it even more sweet for me.

Aaron, for all his smugness about being "in control," did nothing but screw himself. When you promise your vote to two different factions, you're guaranteed to piss somebody off. That may be part of the game, but he managed to do it all so clumsily that he pissed everybody off.

I think this is shaping up to be a really fun season, and we're not even at the merge yet. 115

[magnusblitz]

Originally Posted by muldoonthief

And I had no idea it would be racist to use the term.

It's not, in and of itself, but Jack was either 1) accidentally calling Jamal's buff a do-rag, or 2) purposely making a joke calling his buff a do-rag. Either way is arguably bad because it's not a do-rag, it's a buff, and calling it a do-rag because Jamal is black (either subconciously or as a bad joke) is problematic. I certainly don't think Jack meant anything negative from it, but I can see why it would affect Jamal.

I gotta admit the vote surprised me, I didn't think Aaron would directly state to Tommy's face that the plan was still going forward. That could definitely come back to bite him... I don't see anyone trusting him for the long haul. (He's also a target because of his physicality). 116

[notfrommensa]

According to Jason's exit interview with Rob has a podcast, his alliance (jason-Laurel-Dan-Tommy) was actually going to vote for Aaron at the Tribal Council with Aaron (and maybe Missy) voting Elaine. The vote switched after Elaine announced the Vote Block advantage. They were suspicious of Aaron and Missy flipping so early, that they could be double agents.

I thought it was spelled "doo-rag", and never considered it racist. When I worked in manufacturing plant which required hardhats, I wore a "du-rag" under the hardhat, to absorb the perspiration and I am about as pasty-white as you can get.

I wonder if the Producers are intentionally casting players with similar names

In David vs Goliath, there was Natalie and Natalia
In Edge of Extinction, there was a Julia and Julie
and this season, there is a Tom and a Tommy 117

[Jas09]

Originally Posted by Wheelz

Aaron, for all his smugness about being "in control," did nothing but screw himself. When you promise your vote to two different factions, you're guaranteed to piss somebody off. That may be part of the game, but he managed to do it all so clumsily that he pissed everybody off.

Exactly. I get why he wanted to keep his options open, but keep them open until the point you make a decision. If your not going to flip then just tell the other group that you're willing to go to rocks (knowing, of course, that won't happen due to Elaine's advantage).

I actually think that either approach has it's pros and cons for Aaron, and I'm not sure which one is definitively better. I doubt he really wants a final four with Elaine, Elizabeth and Missy. And I could see why he thinks he needs guys like Tommy around to take the target off him post-merge.

And again it's now 8 Vokai to 6 Lairo (original tribes). With the breakdown on each tribe being 4-3 Lairo on new Vokai and 5-2 Vokai on new Lairo. So if you want to have an advantage for your original tribe at the merge it's now better for the majority in each new tribe to lose the next few immunity challenges... particularly for new Vokai where the newly formed 4-3 Lairo majority could really benefit from knocking out some original Vokai while saving Dean and Karishma from certain doom.

On preview - I like the original plan of targeting Aaron. It's just really really bad timing (from Jason's group's perspective) to have that particular advantage in a 4-4 tie situation. An immunity idol would be way better to try to play around. 118

[notfrommensa]

As I reported on the Death Pool thread

Rudy Boesch, Navy Seal and contestant on the First US Survivor TV show, has died at age 91. 119

[Lucas Jackson]

Originally Posted by muldoonthief

Secondly, there's nothing I hate more than when players take it as a personal insult that the players they're conspiring to vote out turn the tables on them. Sure, be angry you got outplayed. But be angry at the twist of fate, or yourself for not considering all the angles. But being angry at your opponent because they want to win the game too just pisses me off.

Preach it, brother! My number on gripe during a season. It always comes across as, “who do they think they are trying to vote out me, the deserving eventual winner?”

Goddamn crybabies is all they are.

You misspelled entitled assholes. 120

[enalzi]

Originally Posted by notfrommensa

According to Jason's exit interview with Rob has a podcast, his alliance (jason-Laurel-Dan-Tommy) was actually going to vote for Aaron at the Tribal Council with Aaron (and maybe Missy) voting Elaine. The vote switched after Elaine announced the Vote Block advantage. They were suspicious of Aaron and Missy flipping so early, that they could be double agents.

That makes more sense. I can't believe how confident they were that Elaine didn't have an idol considering that she went to Island of the freaking Idols. But once she revealed her advantage, it makes perfect sense to switch to her, since you know she didn't get the idol.

Speaking of idols, I've lost track. Does anyone have one still? Were all the ones at camp found? Do they usually replace them when someone gets voted out with one, or only when it gets played? 121

[magnusblitz]

Originally Posted by notfrommensa

As I reported on the Death Pool thread

Rudy Boesch, Navy Seal and contestant on the First US Survivor TV show, has died at age 91.

Knew it was gonna happen eventually, but still sucks. Definitely lived a full life, though. I think he's the first person to be on the show multiple times who's passed.

Originally Posted by enalzi

Speaking of idols, I've lost track. Does anyone have one still? Were all the ones at camp found? Do they usually replace them when someone gets voted out with one, or only when it gets played?

I think Kellee's one from IotI was good for three TCs (that she attends) and she's only attended two so far, so she's still got one more shot to play it.

Jamal has the regular camp one from Vokai (purple).

I think they replace them when they get played. I don't know if they'll replace the one Chelsea found at Lairo camp or not since she got voted out (and I'm assuming took it with her). 122

[magnusblitz]

Going into this episode I had my shortlist of potential winners as Jamal, Tommy and Kellee.

I don't see Jamal winning now after that scene early on with him rubbing people the wrong way. And then Kellee got to star to the point right now I'd be disappointed if she didn't win. Missy's impressing me too... she reminded me a lot of Michaela early on, but she seems to be a much better strategic player, thinking about switching alliances and such. 123

[Dag Otto]

Originally Posted by magnusblitz

Going into this episode I had my shortlist of potential winners as Jamal, Tommy and Kellee.

I don't see Jamal winning now after that scene early on with him rubbing people the wrong way.

I probably should rewatch the episode to figure it out, but Jamal's play of his idol was surprising. He made the decision quickly once Dean played his idol, but I am sure he considered all possibilities before TC. Playing it for someone else is a big risky move, so Jamal has that going for him. At least he didn't go home. Post merge, I expect him to rally.

Not only was Kellee able to orchestrate a blindside, she managed to get Noura to make the rogue vote and flush an idol.

Big moves by both players, but Kellee nailed a trifecta. 124

[BeepKillBeep]

Kellee's play last night was both brilliant and risky. She's playing hardball, and it seemed to really pay off. I'm firmly in the Kellee camp now. I really respect the game she's playing. 125

[Jas09]

I dunno, my gut reaction was that Kellee made a move just to make a move. That idol was burning a hole in her pocket and she felt she had to do something with it. I think I would have just played it for myself, said I won it on the island of the idols to take that target off my back, and move to the merge with a majority. Instead she hurt her numbers just to take out a player that I'm not sure was a big threat to her. Maybe she can keep her move a secret (in which point it's not really a "resume building" move), but I think it's just as likely Noura figures out that the idol came from Kellee (her comment about "why didn't he play it last time" was very astute actually).

I'm more in the "risk wasn't worth the reward" camp, but I'm willing to be persuaded it was brilliant...

On the risk/reward front, nice job by Janet figuring out that reward Rob and Sandra offered wasn't really much of a reward at all. 126

[Dag Otto]

Originally Posted by Jas09

Maybe she can keep her move a secret (in which point it's not really a "resume building" move), but I think it's just as likely Noura figures out that the idol came from Kellee (her comment about "why didn't he play it last time" was very astute actually).

I'm more in the "risk wasn't worth the reward" camp, but I'm willing to be persuaded it was brilliant...

Unless I missed it, I don't think the conversation between Kellee and Noura was shown, but they must have had one to have Noura vote for Jack. So even if Noura figures it out, she may not want to talk about it. As for why Dean didn't play the idol last time, a plausible cover story is that he didn't have it then but found it before this TC.

Not having it known as a resume building move is fine for now, it keeps a target off Kellee's back. The time to fess up and own it is at Final TC. 127

[Jas09]

But what is Dean's incentive to keep it a secret after the merge, when he is re-united with original Lairo in a 6-7 split (that's the current numbers I believe)? I guess Kellee is hoping Dean stays loyal to her, but blowing up the old Vokai (where Jamal, Noura, and Dan have all been shown to be grating personalities for different reasons) seems very doable.

I guess to me the last vote before the merge (when all hell always breaks loose) seems to be the right time to keep your head down and be a good team player, not to potentially out yourself as a strategic mastermind and make everybody feel unsafe. Not to mention keeping an extra vote around that may still have tribal loyalties to you. It would have been 8-5 Vokai advantage (again, if you think tribal lines will hold).

And no, they didn't show the conversation between Kellee and Noura. Which is too bad, because it seems to me that would have been a great time for a better player than Noura to explain why in the hell she would go along with a plan to vote against her alliance just on the random suggestion that the target might have an idol, and might be targeting her. There has to be more to Noura's decision than just Kellee's word.

I guess the fact that Dean had been told the vote was Noura explains both why Jamal played the idol for her and why she could have been scared enough to vote Jack. I still don't quite get what Jamal's end-game was with his idol play. If it works (Dean voted Noura, everybody else voted Dean) where did he think the re-vote would go? Because if he buys that the women have brought in Karishma then it has to be either him or Jack, right?

ETA: I just remembered after submitting the whole "Kellee knows Dean's ex-girlfriend" angle. So maybe they are tighter than I'm giving her credit for and her plan is to add him to whatever core she thinks she has post-merge. Was she shown to be connected with the Lauren/Tommy axis? 128

[DrDeth]

Originally Posted by Jas09

I dunno, my gut reaction was that Kellee made a move just to make a move. That idol was burning a hole in her pocket and she felt she had to do something with it. I think I would have just played it for myself, said I won it on the island of the idols to take that target off my back, and move to the merge with a majority. Instead she hurt her numbers just to take out a player that I'm not sure was a big threat to her. Maybe she can keep her move a secret (in which point it's not really a "resume building" move), but I think it's just as likely Noura figures out that the idol came from Kellee (her comment about "why didn't he play it last time" was very astute actually).

I'm more in the "risk wasn't worth the reward" camp, but I'm willing to be persuaded it was brilliant...

On the risk/reward front, nice job by Janet figuring out that reward Rob and Sandra offered wasn't really much of a reward at all.

Yeah, I agree. Now if it had been a real idol, then it's a "Move". But otherwise, it's just dumping a idol that will be worthless in exchange for Survivor resume building- which may backfire. 129

[Wheelz]

I have a couple of questions.

First, why bring Noura into the plan at all? If the Dean vote is unanimous, it takes only one vote to send Jack home. If there’s a plan to split votes, two wouldn’t be enough anyway.
So it could have been “We all voted for Dean, but oh shit, he has an idol” and Kellee just pulled off a master move with only Dean knowing about it, and he owes her now so he might keep quiet about it.
But Noura is probably the one player most likely to spill the beans, plus now everyone is wondering who the second Jack vote was. Kellee voted Dean for the sake of plausible deniability, but nobody knows that. Noura may be crazy, but I don’t think she’s stupid. She has a card to play against Kellee now.

Second, why Jack and not Jamal? He’s clearly calling the shots in his alliance. This is the most perplexing thing in all the years I’ve watched Survivor. So many times, there’s a chance to cut off the head of the snake, but they go for the tail instead. I don’t get it. 130

[Ellis Dee]

Originally Posted by Wheelz

First, why bring Noura into the plan at all? If the Dean vote is unanimous, it takes only one vote to send Jack home. If there’s a plan to split votes, two wouldn’t be enough anyway.

Kellee said in the episode that she didn't want Dean to have the only vote because he could then just vote Kellee out, knowing she no longer had an idol. Essentially, she didn't want to pull an Eric.

Second, why Jack and not Jamal? He’s clearly calling the shots in his alliance. This is the most perplexing thing in all the years I’ve watched Survivor. So many times, there’s a chance to cut off the head of the snake, but they go for the tail instead. I don’t get it.

Jamal isn't really the head, though, as he seems to frequently end up on the outside at TC. Also he's much less likable, and thus easier to vote out later.



Nice pretend outrage about the girls alliance thing by Kellee. If she was serious, though, give me a friggin' break.



What would have happened if Jamal guessed right and gave his idol to Jack? Everyone except Jack and Dean re-votes for anyone except Jack and Dean? Normally during a re-vote you can only vote for the people who already got votes, but in that case both would have been immune. 131

[BeepKillBeep]

Originally Posted by Wheelz

I have a couple of questions.

First, why bring Noura into the plan at all? If the Dean vote is unanimous, it takes only one vote to send Jack home. If there’s a plan to split votes, two wouldn’t be enough anyway.
So it could have been “We all voted for Dean, but oh shit, he has an idol” and Kellee just pulled off a master move with only Dean knowing about it, and he owes her now so he might keep quiet about it.
But Noura is probably the one player most likely to spill the beans, plus now everyone is wondering who the second Jack vote was. Kellee voted Dean for the sake of plausible deniability, but nobody knows that. Noura may be crazy, but I don’t think she’s stupid. She has a card to play against Kellee now.

Because Kellee was rightfully concerned that Dean could betray here and write her name down, and this she would go home. Noura was an insurance against a possible betrayal by Kellee. That's one of the reasons I'm impressed with Kellee's play. She's considering a lot of the different angles.

With respect to voting. I think the players know (to some degree) who voted for whom. For many seasons, players have have voted with a signature marking on their votes. For example, Kellee voted "DEaN" (I'm going to go out on a limb and assumed Kellee knows the letter "A"). Some players put a star on their vote. Etc. 132

[jsc1953]

Originally Posted by Ellis Dee

Nice pretend outrage about the girls alliance thing by Kellee. If she was serious, though, give me a friggin' break.

Yeah. As she was saying that I was thinking: wait a minute ... isn't there a proposed or actual girls alliance in every damn season? And what's wrong about a traditionally under-powered segment of a society banding together? 133

[enalzi]

Originally Posted by jsc1953

Yeah. As she was saying that I was thinking: wait a minute ... isn't there a proposed or actual girls alliance in every damn season? And what's wrong about a traditionally under-powered segment of a society banding together?

I think part of the issue is that whenever two or three women talk to each other, people start talking about a women's alliance. But if two or three men talk, you never hear people say "I'm worried about a men's alliance." 134

[jsc1953]

Originally Posted by enalzi

I think part of the issue is that whenever two or three women talk to each other, people start talking about a women's alliance. But if two or three men talk, you never hear people say "I'm worried about a men's alliance."

That's a fair point. But I think for every time some guy has said "I'm worried about a girls' alliance" there has been some woman saying "we ought to form a girls' alliance." 135

[enalzi]

You know, I hope the producers look at this season, which has had interesting discussions on religion, race, and gender, and realize they don't need to split people up into gimmicky tribes. 136

[J-P L]

One question I always ponder during the tribal meeting.

Does Prost know what is going on within the tribe(s).

Does he have any knowledge of what is said when players are talking to the camera, does he knows about any alliances and who has an idol in their pocket. 137

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by J-P L

One question I always ponder during the tribal meeting.

Does Prost know what is going on within the tribe(s).

Does he have any knowledge of what is said when players are talking to the camera, does he knows about any alliances and who has an idol in their pocket.

Oh, he's talked about this topic. He is briefed about a few things so he can ask good questions, but he is mostly in the dark. He does not know who, if anyone, has an immunity idol. 138

[Wheelz]

Originally Posted by jsc1953

Yeah. As she was saying that I was thinking: wait a minute ... isn't there a proposed or actual girls alliance in every damn season? And what's wrong about a traditionally under-powered segment of a society banding together?

Exactly. If she'd said something like, "Hey, give us a little more credit than just voting with our vaginas," I'd see her point. But she went a bit over the top with the indignation. 139

[muldoonthief]

Originally Posted by Ellis Dee

What would have happened if Jamal guessed right and gave his idol to Jack? Everyone except Jack and Dean re-votes for anyone except Jack and Dean? Normally during a re-vote you can only vote for the people who already got votes, but in that case both would have been immune.

Everyone would revote (including Jack & Dean), Jack & Dean would be immune, everyone else is vulnerable. This has happened before, in the first vote of the finale of Cambodia. They were down to 6, Spencer had won immunity. At Tribal, Kelley and Jeremy play their HIIs, the vote count is 3 Kelley, 3 Jeremy. Jeff announces they'll revote, but now Spencer, Kelley & Jeremy are immune (but still vote).

It got weirder after that - Tasha & Kimmi got 3 votes each. So now that a revote has resulted in a tie, the other 4 must reach a unanimous decision as to whether Tasha or Kimmi would go home. If they can't, then the 4 of them would have to draw rocks. But immunity applies to rocks also, so the only person at risk was Keith. Keith oddly at first volunteered to be eliminated, but after some discussion the 4 of them settled on Kimmi. 140

[enalzi]

Originally Posted by muldoonthief

Everyone would revote (including Jack & Dean), Jack & Dean would be immune, everyone else is vulnerable. This has happened before, in the first vote of the finale of Cambodia. They were down to 6, Spencer had won immunity. At Tribal, Kelley and Jeremy play their HIIs, the vote count is 3 Kelley, 3 Jeremy. Jeff announces they'll revote, but now Spencer, Kelley & Jeremy are immune (but still vote).

It got weirder after that - Tasha & Kimmi got 3 votes each. So now that a revote has resulted in a tie, the other 4 must reach a unanimous decision as to whether Tasha or Kimmi would go home. If they can't, then the 4 of them would have to draw rocks. But immunity applies to rocks also, so the only person at risk was Keith. Keith oddly at first volunteered to be eliminated, but after some discussion the 4 of them settled on Kimmi.

It also (sorta) happened in Game Changers. Everyone except for Cirie played an idol. Jeff explained that there would normally be a revote but the only person anyone could vote for would have been Cirie, so she went home with no votes. 141

[Ellis Dee]

Well that was gross all around. 142

[Wheelz]

That sure took a turn.

I’m kind of pissed at Kellee for being dumb enough to go home with two idols in her pocket. She plays an idol, Creepy Dan goes home, and this whole ugly incident is over.

Instead, yeah, “gross all around” pretty much sums it up. Elizabeth jumping on the accusation bandwagon just to help her game was disgusting. Missy insisting nothing had happened when she was one of the first ones to bring it up was perplexing. Elaine going all in on Team Dan was maddening. And all of them ostracizing Janet for trying to stand up for them was sickening.

These were all players I thought I liked, and I can’t look at them the same way now.

I’d gone back and forth on Jamal game-wise, but I really liked what he had to say at the last Tribal. He didn’t deserve to be the sacrificial lamb after all this mess. (Although his fake advantage ruse was terribly lame.)

Janet is a dead woman walking. I truly don’t know who else to root for. 143

[Eyebrows 0f Doom]

I now hate everyone except Janet. Missy and Elizabeth are perhaps the most disgusting players I’ve ever seen. They actually lied about being sexually harassed to better themselves in the game. That crosses a line and is way worse than anything Russell ever did.

Don’t these people know their lies are being shown on TV? How could they think in this day and age that that would go well for them?

Aaron’s got a mother, don’t you know! How could he possibly not believe women when he has a mother!

Jamal’s condescending wokeness did get on my nerves but at least he put douche-bro Aaron in his place. (“I would know if anything happened! I’m a big strong man! If I don’t know about it, it didn’t happen.”) 144

[Ellis Dee]

That's part of what made it all so gross. Dan really was creepy and gross, and despite that very low starting point, it was all downhill from there. Liz and Missy, I guess, found Dan creepy and gross in the context of girl talk, but nothing more than that, and opportunisticly played it up to Janet to sway her vote, and hey, it's all good, it's Survivor? Wow.

Kellee -- the whistleblower and the one most genuinely uncomfortable around Dan -- gets voted out immediately, which is its own special brand of bad messaging. Janet goes against her gut to side with the women in the #MeToo era and because she got played she's the bad guy.

And the worst part is Dan gets to speechify at the end extolling how he is the aggrieved party! Double yuck. 145

[BeepKillBeep]

The only thing I really liked about last night was the seriousness of the conversation. I think Probst did a good job as host. "We'll be here until day 39 if we have to." And there was a lot of personal reflection on the part of the contestants. I think what Elizabeth did was wrong, but as mentioned in the tribal council, I think she thought she was being played. I.e. that Janet was using the situation with Dan to throw a smokescreen over her intent to vote out Missy. It was very messy. And again, I think a lot of it was cleared up effectively by Probst in the tribal council.

Poor Kellee though. I had hopes that she would go further, but she tied to her fate to Noura and immediately got thrown under the bus. Like immediately immediately. Wow. Noura cannot keep a secret AT all. If she ever applies for security clearance, they will review her performance on Survivor and being like "Nope, nope nope, Oh HELL no!" 146

[muldoonthief]

So they put up a wall of text that said the producers met with each player individually, then as a group, asking them about issues, reminding them of the rules, and deciding to go on. Then they met with Dan and specifically gave him an "official warning" about boundaries. Then the next day he acted completely shocked that anyone had any problem with anything he had done. Plus there's the video of him trying to touch Kellee's hair, her saying "Don't touch me!" and running away, and him chasing her down the beach claiming "My hands are clean! I just washed them!" desperately trying to get at her hair.

Sorry, not buying it.

And yeah, Missy and Elizabeth are disgusting. 147

[BeepKillBeep]

Dan is definitely delusional. He's one of those guys who is creepy as f*ck but refuses to accept that he's creepy as f*ck. He simply cannot see his behaviour for what it is. When you're asked to keep your hands to yourself, keep your damn hands to yourself. And the default behaviour should be to keep your damn hands to yourself. It shouldn't be I'm going to be handsy, and stop if I'm asked to do so. It shouldn't be up to somebody to ask you to keep your hands off, because as pointed out in this episode, that can be incredibly difficult under many situations. 148

[muldoonthief]

I don't think he's delusional, at least not in the way you're saying. I think he knows exactly what he's doing, and keeps doing it but claiming shit like "Sorry, I forgot!" or "I didn't mean anything!" or the like. But he flat out fucking lied that no one had said anything to him, when the producers singled him out specifically for an "official warning".
His only possible delusion is that since he hasn't actually raped anyone, what he's doing is OK. 149

[jsc1953]

Wow....so much to unpack. It certainly seems like the takeaway from this episode was that tribal politics trumps #metoo, which doesn't make anyone look good.
You could tell this was going to be a special episode when we hear a producer talking back to Kellee during her confessional moment. I think that was unprecedented.

It really sucks about Kellee. Probably the smartest and best player, and the one with the most sincere feelings about the matter, going home with 2 idols in her pocket. 150