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  #51  
Old 09-08-2019, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Much of Buddhism is fiction.
isnt much if not all of any religion fiction?
  #52  
Old 09-08-2019, 01:37 AM
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You're going down that rabbit hole again.
Machina, buddy, seriously you need to find something else to do with your time. This is no-wheres-ville.
You depress me, man. And I'm usually a happy, silly person.
Go get you one of those adult coloring books and some colored pencils. You'd be happier, and more productive.

Last edited by Beckdawrek; 09-08-2019 at 01:38 AM.
  #53  
Old 09-08-2019, 01:45 AM
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If Buddhism lead one to truth, then China would have been an idealic, peaceful land free of crime, everyone would be living in a state of bliss, and the teachings would have spread across the planet and been taken up by everyone.

It appeals to you. That's not truth. Believing that something which appeals to you is truth is narcissism.

As said, if Buddhism were true, you would be able to see it affect the world in a positive way. To my knowledge, China was just as full of murder, rape, and tyranny as everywhere else on the planet. Your feeling on the matter be as it may, you can just look at history and it tells you that you're not correct.
Buddhism requires that one has to give up a lot for it, which makes your statement flawed. The reality is that many don't want to let go of the things that it asks you to.
  #54  
Old 09-08-2019, 01:48 AM
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Why should I? It's just Buddhism.
  #55  
Old 09-08-2019, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
You're going down that rabbit hole again.
Machina, buddy, seriously you need to find something else to do with your time. This is no-wheres-ville.
You depress me, man. And I'm usually a happy, silly person.
Go get you one of those adult coloring books and some colored pencils. You'd be happier, and more productive.
There's really no going back, although to be honest I wish I could do so. But I can't. The usual methods of getting happy don't work because of Buddhism.

From the article:

Quote:
Desire and liberation are in the same locations as the appearances of life. But that life differs as to whether it is the life of opposition and trouble that is centered on desire, or whether it is the peaceful and free life with its roots in the no-self. If the practitioner perfects study, he becomes free from all instinctual desire. This is because it has gotten rid of the life criteria of I. The love and compassion that are the perfection of the conditionally-produced life is the light of no-self mind, so leaves no place for the sexual appetite and its images. Therefore, according to the extent to which one has escaped from the bonds of such instinctual appetites, one can estimate this extent of practice by the practitioner.
  #56  
Old 09-08-2019, 01:51 AM
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Why should I? It's just Buddhism.
Because otherwise you are living in illusion and not reality, and apparently from what I'm told there is a good amount of psychology to back Buddhism, including there not being a self.
  #57  
Old 09-08-2019, 02:04 AM
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I just checked. I am a 'self'
Right now my 'self' is sporting a headache.
  #58  
Old 09-08-2019, 02:15 AM
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  #59  
Old 09-08-2019, 02:15 AM
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Not infrequently in Thailand and other Buddhist countries, I would run into farangs (Westerners) who were intent on teaching the local Buddhists about Buddhism. These farangs were not generally viewed in a favorable light by the locals. Threads like this make me think of that.
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  #60  
Old 09-08-2019, 03:53 AM
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The usual methods of getting happy don't work because of Buddhism.
Then fuck Buddhism.
  #61  
Old 09-08-2019, 04:11 AM
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Not infrequently in Thailand and other Buddhist countries, I would run into farangs (Westerners) who were intent on teaching the local Buddhists about Buddhism. These farangs were not generally viewed in a favorable light by the locals. Threads like this make me think of that.
Shrug, I've run many times into Protestants who tried to explain Catholicism to me. It's not limited to "exotic" religions.
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  #62  
Old 09-08-2019, 04:59 AM
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Because otherwise you are living in illusion and not reality, and apparently from what I'm told there is a good amount of psychology to back Buddhism, including there not being a self.
Spell this out for me. Describe someone youd say is living in reality; tell me what you figure a typical month would look like for them. Do they eat and drink? Do they sleep? And, sure, broad strokes, here, but: what, exactly, would they do?
  #63  
Old 09-08-2019, 06:15 AM
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Compassion doesn't do a lick to replace everything that I lost due to Buddhism,so much so that I can honestly say I would be better off forgetting all of it.

Plus when I look at Buddhism compassion doesn't fit with the rest of the teachings, it just feels horned in there. In fact I would wager that if they didn't put that in then no one would follow it. It just doesn't fit within the whole of Buddhism. IT would explain why some say that Buddhism gets close to truth but compassion holds it back.

But this isn't about controlling sexual impulses but the idea that sexuality is false because it's rooted in the false construct of a self. I mean it hurts to think that I've been lying to myself this whole time.
It has to fit. Buddhism exists because of compassion, in that the Buddha turned away from Nirvana to teach only because of his compassion for the suffering of others. It's a fundamental concept. If someone's understanding of Buddhism doesn't include compassion, then their understanding is incomplete, and flawed.

I know that you are just going to run with your own personal interpretation of Buddhism, regardless of what anyone says, and that's fine. But I am stressing this aspect of compassion to you, because you are hurting yourself, and it is hard to watch and say nothing. Meditation on compassion helped me enormously when I suffered from that existential hopelessness that you can get from Buddhist meditation. And I want to emphasize that it is scripturally sound.
  #64  
Old 09-08-2019, 08:13 AM
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There are men in the world who will say that they couldn't possibly refrain from spitting, because of the build-up of saliva in their mouth. Universally, these men are in lower-wage jobs. It's unlikely that mass saliva production would somehow lead a person to be unable to find a higher paying job. More likely, it's simply a cultural thing.

Similarly, we see in history people saying that it would be impossible for their soldiers to not rape the women of the locations they conquer; it's an innate aspect of manhood that cannot be turned off. Modern soldiers, somehow, do refrain from raping women. The people in history were, objectively, wrong.

There is a lot to be said for culture and self-control.

There are almost certainly limits. But if you start drooling and humping the table when a woman with big boobs walks by and the other men don't, that's probably a problem with you and your view of the world, it's not something completely uncontrollable.
Your going to the extreme but I cannot remember a time in my life when the sight of a womans breasts didnt excite me. I think it's built in. Nobody hat to tell me a womans body isnt attractive.
  #65  
Old 09-08-2019, 09:42 AM
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Given that reality, "Go fuck yourself", takes on a fresh new meaning.
I prefer the less crude phrase of the same meaning: "you do you."
  #66  
Old 09-08-2019, 09:51 AM
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Your going to the extreme but I cannot remember a time in my life when the sight of a womans breasts didnt excite me. I think it's built in. Nobody hat to tell me a womans body isnt attractive.
And what behaviors were you unavoidably compelled to engage in because you found them attractive?
  #67  
Old 09-08-2019, 10:28 AM
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Jeez, dude. Go get a stack of comic books and just read for fun. This 'study' you're doing is a very, very deep rabbit hole. Down at the bottom is rabbit shit. No fun in that.
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Now this is wisdom. I'm so stealing it!
Just what I was thinking. Opening this thread was completely worthwhile because I ran across this nugget of pure gold.
  #68  
Old 09-08-2019, 11:03 AM
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Buddhism requires that one has to give up a lot for it, which makes your statement flawed. The reality is that many don't want to let go of the things that it asks you to.
And? If you went to work for Stalin, that would also require that you give up a lot for it.

If there's some benefit from Buddhism to the self, then that person should still be in some way saner, grander, or otherwise an improved human being over others. A novice should still approach that direction, even if they don't arrive at the end point just as a person who practices running will be better at running than a couch potato even if they still can't come close to Usain Bolt.

Or, even to take the worst case and assume that it's a binary switch where you suddenly go from nothing to all, and there's never any slightest good that happens because of training Buddhism in the middle territory, that would still mean that some percentage of people, both now and through history, would have existed who had become enlightened and walked among the others. We would expect those to be influential people with a positive effect on the rest of society. Buddhist societies, by influence of these individuals should have been improved compared to Christian and Muslim and Incan, etc.

If you feel like a superhero who has discovered the truth, but you can't seem to do anything positive for the world, then you're simply an expert at self-delusion.

If you can train yourself to slow down your heart and raise your body temperature, your can train yourself to believe that you're the best thing in the world and that you know something that others do not.

There is only one way to discern between good and self-delusion, and that is by being able to observe goodness. If you can't see it appear then, regardless of how certain that person is of their greatness, all that has been proven is that they are a person who is personally convinced of his own greatness.

And if it is a binary switch then, unless you succeed at finding truth, you will have wasted all of that time, when you could have spent it saving babies from burning buildings. And if your first act after enlightenment isn't to go save babies, then truth looks a whole lot like sociopathy.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 09-08-2019 at 11:08 AM.
  #69  
Old 09-08-2019, 11:33 AM
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I prefer the less crude phrase of the same meaning: "you do you."
Isn't there a term for "doing yourself?"
  #70  
Old 09-08-2019, 12:09 PM
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Compassion doesn't do a lick to replace everything that I lost due to Buddhism,so much so that I can honestly say I would be better off forgetting all of it.
Yes, you should forget all of it. You misunderstand it completely and have only retained the pieces that make you miserable. Walk away.
  #71  
Old 09-08-2019, 12:55 PM
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isnt much if not all of any religion fiction?
Of course it is.
  #72  
Old 09-08-2019, 01:34 PM
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Yes, you should forget all of it. You misunderstand it completely and have only retained the pieces that make you miserable. Walk away.
Walk away from what you think you're chasing, walk where your feet take you. Only then will you be on the path to enlightenment.
  #73  
Old 09-08-2019, 06:18 PM
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I just checked. I am a 'self'
Right now my 'self' is sporting a headache.
If I had a dollar every time I heard that!
  #74  
Old 09-10-2019, 01:37 PM
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http://www.buddhism.org/?p=435

The link is saying that sexual desire is false and an illusion of sorts because it's based on the false construct of a "self".
Whoever thought up that load of malarkey spent far to much time meditating and not enough time masturbating.
  #75  
Old 09-10-2019, 02:09 PM
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There's really no going back, although to be honest I wish I could do so. But I can't. The usual methods of getting happy don't work because of Buddhism.
It isn't Buddhism that is keeping you from being happy. It's that you are picking out parts of it that you don't understand and using them to make yourself miserable.

Regards,
Shodan
  #76  
Old 09-10-2019, 02:17 PM
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It isn't Buddhism that is keeping you from being happy. It's that you are picking out parts of it that you don't understand and using them to make yourself miserable.

Regards,
Shodan
He's only happy when it rains.
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  #77  
Old 09-11-2019, 05:27 AM
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Real deep philosophy - NOT!


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Machinaforce, you should tell the many millions of people who surf porn, and/or contribute vast income to the porn/sex industry, that their libido is an illusion.
Not an illusion, just virtual.

Is there really much difference?
  #78  
Old 09-11-2019, 05:37 AM
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I've seen it said that we are now living in an age of do it yourself syncretic religions. Meaning that people cherry pick and then mix and match from all the established religions, and maybe from some that aren't. It is a matter of endless debate as to whether or not you should experience or study religion by yourself, or under the guidance of an existing practitioner / priest / monk/ teacher. The latter approach can avoid some of the intellecctual pitfalls and misunderstandings, given that religion is in effect self-created anyway and every religion ends up splintering into factions, often warring.

Perhaps coincidentally, this thread turned up at the same time as the one who atheists and god? Is this proof of god's existence by the two threads being complementary, a sheer coincidence, or quantum mechanics in action? Bewildered minds need to know.
  #79  
Old 09-11-2019, 06:49 AM
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It isn't Buddhism that is keeping you from being happy. It's that you are picking out parts of it that you don't understand and using them to make yourself miserable.

Regards,
Shodan
No - he's a miserable person who's using bits and pieces of Buddhism to justify his own misery.
  #80  
Old 09-11-2019, 01:48 PM
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And? If you went to work for Stalin, that would also require that you give up a lot for it.

If there's some benefit from Buddhism to the self, then that person should still be in some way saner, grander, or otherwise an improved human being over others. A novice should still approach that direction, even if they don't arrive at the end point just as a person who practices running will be better at running than a couch potato even if they still can't come close to Usain Bolt.

Or, even to take the worst case and assume that it's a binary switch where you suddenly go from nothing to all, and there's never any slightest good that happens because of training Buddhism in the middle territory, that would still mean that some percentage of people, both now and through history, would have existed who had become enlightened and walked among the others. We would expect those to be influential people with a positive effect on the rest of society. Buddhist societies, by influence of these individuals should have been improved compared to Christian and Muslim and Incan, etc.

If you feel like a superhero who has discovered the truth, but you can't seem to do anything positive for the world, then you're simply an expert at self-delusion.

If you can train yourself to slow down your heart and raise your body temperature, your can train yourself to believe that you're the best thing in the world and that you know something that others do not.

There is only one way to discern between good and self-delusion, and that is by being able to observe goodness. If you can't see it appear then, regardless of how certain that person is of their greatness, all that has been proven is that they are a person who is personally convinced of his own greatness.

And if it is a binary switch then, unless you succeed at finding truth, you will have wasted all of that time, when you could have spent it saving babies from burning buildings. And if your first act after enlightenment isn't to go save babies, then truth looks a whole lot like sociopathy.
I mean technically it is because the ultimate truth that they look at is that there is no babies to save, no death, or birth, no self or other, no sexuality, that is ultimate reality.

I'm not doing this because I want to be miserable, I would drop this in a heartbeat if it were wrong. But it's not wrong and that is what hurts. The fact that much of what I loved in life is an illusion or a lie hurts, and I just can't un-see or un know what Buddhism told me.
  #81  
Old 09-11-2019, 02:54 PM
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I mean technically it is because the ultimate truth that they look at is that there is no babies to save, no death, or birth, no self or other, no sexuality, that is ultimate reality.

I'm not doing this because I want to be miserable, I would drop this in a heartbeat if it were wrong. But it's not wrong and that is what hurts. The fact that much of what I loved in life is an illusion or a lie hurts, and I just can't un-see or un know what Buddhism told me.
One of the most positive, happy and uplifting people on this planet is the Dalai Lama. But I'm pretty sure you know more about Buddhism than he. Else he'd be just as miserable and obsessive as you. You should write him a letter. I'm sure he'd welcome your insights.
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  #82  
Old 09-12-2019, 08:05 AM
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I'm not doing this because I want to be miserable, I would drop this in a heartbeat if it were wrong. But it's not wrong and that is what hurts. The fact that much of what I loved in life is an illusion or a lie hurts, and I just can't un-see or un know what Buddhism told me.
Buddhism didn't tell you that. You are misinterpreting Buddhism because you are depressed. And you are not listening to anyone who is trying to explain Buddhism to you, because you are depressed.

You started out by being depressed. Then you picked out things to be depressed about. That's how depression works.

Regards,
Shodan
  #83  
Old 09-12-2019, 08:51 AM
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I mean technically it is because the ultimate truth that they look at is that there is no babies to save, no death, or birth, no self or other, no sexuality, that is ultimate reality.

I'm not doing this because I want to be miserable, I would drop this in a heartbeat if it were wrong. But it's not wrong and that is what hurts. The fact that much of what I loved in life is an illusion or a lie hurts, and I just can't un-see or un know what Buddhism told me.
You really need to learn the fucking difference between an illusion and an emergent property. I have absolutely zero expectation that you ever will. I fully expect you to luxuriate in wallowing in self-pity for the rest of your unhappy life, because no matter how much you claim otherwise it looks to be exactly what you want.
  #84  
Old 09-12-2019, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
I mean technically it is because the ultimate truth that they look at is that there is no babies to save, no death, or birth, no self or other, no sexuality, that is ultimate reality.

I'm not doing this because I want to be miserable, I would drop this in a heartbeat if it were wrong. But it's not wrong and that is what hurts. The fact that much of what I loved in life is an illusion or a lie hurts, and I just can't un-see or un know what Buddhism told me.
Certainly you shouldn't take advice from an illusion, right? That would be crazy. Now, if Buddhism says that all is illusion, then Buddhism itself is an illusion. Therefore you should not even consider what the Buddhist illusion says.
If Buddhism is correct, then it cannot be an illusion, but that implies that Buddhism is not correct, which is a contradiction.
Now perhaps all is an illusion (though the odds are against it) but if this is true it is not because Buddhism says so.
Stop believing in contradictions and you'll feel much better.
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