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  #51  
Old 03-16-2018, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
I canít believe how much I now want for her to show up in full mirror-chrome armor, and then remove the helmet exactly long enough to show a small scratch on her face, and then put the helmet back on for the rest of the movie.

(Not even saying any lines during that; just helmet on, helmet off, helmet on.)
I put the odds of that, or something similar, at 50/50.
  #52  
Old 03-16-2018, 05:33 PM
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It really seems like a sharp demarcated divisive line between the likers and haters. Quite a shame, I think they're cutting themselves off from a great movie.
Likers? Haters? How about the Zzzzzzers?

Seriously, not only did it leave little reason to make an Ep 9, I found it forgettable in and of itself. As in, I already don't remember it particularly well.

It didn't leave me enough to hate. Just :shrug:
  #53  
Old 03-16-2018, 06:53 PM
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The fans want to know who Snoke is? Fuck it, he's dead. Don't care what they want.
The fans want to know who Rey's parents are? Fuck it, they're nobodies, unimportant.
The fans want to see the dramatic moment when Rey hands Luke back his lightsaber?
Fuck it, let's turn it into a comic moment and have him toss it over his shoulder.
These are not valid criticisms.

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Seriously, not only did it leave little reason to make an Ep 9
The First Order is still ruling the galaxy. The Resistance is severely depleted and discouraged. Rey has better control of her powers. Kylo has revealed a crack of empathy. There are plenty of reasons for an Episode IX.
  #54  
Old 03-16-2018, 08:15 PM
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Iím with RikWriter with regards to being disappointed in TLJ. I get wanting to break new ground, but if Johnson just wanted to break new ground, he could have made a completely different movie. The way Johnson handled Luke was especially disappointing. Mark Hamill himself felt that Lukeís story was handled poorly, and I agree. I am none the less looking forward to Episode IX and think that Abrams will do a good job with it. For what itís worth, here are my rankings of the movies so far, in four tiers.

1. Episodes IV-VI.
2. The Force Awakens.
A big gap then
3. The Last Jedi.
4. Episodes I-III.
  #55  
Old 03-16-2018, 08:22 PM
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1. Episodes IV-VI.
2. The Force Awakens.
A big gap then
3. The Last Jedi.
4. Episodes I-III.
Where would you fit Rogue One in?
  #56  
Old 03-16-2018, 09:07 PM
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I'd heard the criticisms, but hadn't watched TLJ until this last Tuesday. I get the criticism about Luke. It isn't the victorious story we all wanted. Instead, he's a bitter old, defeated man in hiding, who has even cut himself off from the force.

But that being said, they played that trope fairly well. He comes out to do exactly what he jokingly asked about, sacrificing his life, just to buy them time. Like Obi-Wan did on the Deathstar in the original movie. I liked that, in that combat, Luke wasn't making any marks on the surface, giving away that he actually wasn't there.

The kid at the end is clearly one of the stable kids at Canto, showing that there are still force sensitive kids out there immediately after anointing Rey as the new Last Jedi. I'm hoping that means we have a ragtag band of teenage and 20-something force users, against The Knights of Ren.

How old would Jacen Syndulla be? I certainly would not be opposed to anyone from Rebels showing up in SW IX.
  #57  
Old 03-16-2018, 09:46 PM
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Quoth Ashtura:

TLJ only beats out Attack of the Clones by 1% audience score on RT to be the worse Star Wars movie ever made.
Neither of them is in contention to be the worst Star Wars movie ever made, so long as The Phantom Menace still exists.
  #58  
Old 03-16-2018, 10:16 PM
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I think it's a good thing Rian Johnson didn't play to the fans. TFA was lots of fan service. Loved it, but we didn't need more. I remember there was lots of fear that TLJ would be more of the same. He went a different direction and still catches hell. It was no win.
  #59  
Old 07-27-2018, 07:02 PM
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Check out this cast and production announcement.

Mark Hamill is back. Carrie Fisher is in it using footage filmed for Episode VII.

They start filming August 1.
  #60  
Old 07-27-2018, 07:59 PM
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Well of course I'll go see it when it comes out, but I am baffled where they go with the story next. I mean, the Rebellion has been reduced to a couple dozen people on the Millenuim Falcon and it doesn't appear that there is a whole lot of support out there for them (I kept waiting for the cavalry to appear in TLJ, but nothing showed). So how do you rebuild a galactic rebellion from that?

Only thing I can come up with, based on the brief clip at the end in stable, is a modified "Children of the Lens" ending (and no, I am not going to explain that). It might work, but it's not really JJ Abrams style, so I guess we'll have to wait another 16-17 months to find out.
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  #61  
Old 07-27-2018, 08:23 PM
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Well of course I'll go see it when it comes out, but I am baffled where they go with the story next. I mean, the Rebellion has been reduced to a couple dozen people on the Millenuim Falcon and it doesn't appear that there is a whole lot of support out there for them (I kept waiting for the cavalry to appear in TLJ, but nothing showed). So how do you rebuild a galactic rebellion from that?
Luke said some of his students fled rather than join Ren & the Stimpys, so if nothing else it seems like it would be about time for them to reappear.
  #62  
Old 07-27-2018, 09:17 PM
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Well of course I'll go see it when it comes out, but I am baffled where they go with the story next. I mean, the Rebellion has been reduced to a couple dozen people on the Millenuim Falcon and it doesn't appear that there is a whole lot of support out there for them (I kept waiting for the cavalry to appear in TLJ, but nothing showed). So how do you rebuild a galactic rebellion from that?
That's what makes it compelling. Usually the knock back in the second act is just an annoying obstacle, but this time it's been devastation. How do they rebuild and prevail after that? I'm excited to find out.
  #63  
Old 07-27-2018, 09:46 PM
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I was still excited for Star Wars after TFA. After TLJ all wind has been sucked out of me. Despite good character chemistry and all the old faces TLJ is a mess. I’m hoping they retcon it in episode IX.
  #64  
Old 07-27-2018, 09:54 PM
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I was still excited for Star Wars after TFA. After TLJ all wind has been sucked out of me. Despite good character chemistry and all the old faces TLJ is a mess. Iím hoping they retcon it in episode IX.
I know, they literally asked Rian Johnson about Episdoe IX and he said something like, "Oh, I have no idea. I'm not involved in that movie at all. That's JJ Abrams problem."

I like VIII, but Johnson was almost trolling them by wrapping up so many storylines in the middle movie.
  #65  
Old 07-27-2018, 10:10 PM
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Is there anything in the official movie Star Wars canon that supports the idea that Luke is not truly dead? That Abrams (or whoever is writing the thing) can twist Luke's "disappearing on the cliff" to reappearing in full flesh and blood for the next movie? Sort of how Gandalf the Grey transformed into Gandalf the White. And if this happens, how would fans react to it? With a groan since Obi-Wan disappeared in the same way? Or excitement as it reveals another aspect of the Force that was never fleshed out? (Maybe it could tie in somehow to Palpatine promising that he could teach Anakin how to bring back someone from the dead.)

Just wishful thinking on my part.
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  #66  
Old 07-28-2018, 02:06 AM
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The only fake out with still being alive that would be credible to me is that TLJ is a vision Luke had about what would happen if he cut himself off from the force. Vision ends, TLJ never happened.


There is no force ghost psych out ability that I know of. But they had Yoda's ghost display more power than I've ever seen.

No, they definitely wanted Luke.dead. I truly believe JJ knew about it and approved. I don't think he knew what to do with Luke which is why he punted Luke to Johnson.
  #67  
Old 07-28-2018, 05:47 AM
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Star Wars is like your all-time favorite restaurant that changed its ownership, ambiance, and menu. You've gone back a few times with hope. Now its average at best and disappointing. At least we have the memories.
  #68  
Old 07-28-2018, 06:15 AM
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The trouble with a worldwide pop cultural phenomenon that you have loved since childhood and maintained a steady interest in throughout its expansion and development is that there are hundreds of ways to love it, and no two people will like it for the same reasons as you.

What Disney/Lucasfilm are making has almost all the elements I love, even though a few of them (superficial things mostly) are not to my taste. But the elements you love may not be present.

As long as they are making money and have stories to tell, they'll keep making these movies their way. Solo arguably didn't make as much money as they would've liked, but so far it's the one anomaly, and even then it could be argued Rogue One was the anomaly by being more popular than they expected. Not to mention Solo's troubled production is really the cause of its comparably low return by messing with the box office return ratio.

They don't want to mess with the formula too much, but what is that formula? Ask any two Star Wars fans and you'll get a different answer, maybe even a contradictory answer.

Nobody can make you like something you just don't, but these declarations that it's ruined and dead and is no longer worth watching is impulsive, reactionary, and ridiculous. The next "Star Wars Story" movie might be the best adventure yet! Episode IX might make everything in The Last Jedi work better, in the same way that The Clone Wars managed to improve what went wrong in the prequels.

They're only four movies in. Not all of them are going to be hits. So far only Marvel has managed to be Marvel, and even they have had failures. Lower your stratospheric expectations.
  #69  
Old 07-29-2018, 05:13 AM
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.

They're only four movies in. Not all of them are going to be hits. So far only Marvel has managed to be Marvel, and even they have had failures. Lower your stratospheric expectations.

That is the problem. 4 movies is a lot! All that's left of the Star Wars we know is Chewie and the Millenium Falcon. That's it. The rest was destroyed and replaced by uninteresting characters. Rey? She doesn't even want to do Star Wars. Finn and Rose, a fish out of water romance. Kylo-Ren? Disney villain. Snoke? Killed off a movie too soon, and a bit of comic relief.

The problem started with TFA. Okay, crash land on a desert planet, hide the plans in the droids and blow up the death star....again. Recycled material with less charm and tension than the original Star Wars.

Rogue one was excellent, because it was true to Star Wars, used Darth Vader to great effect, and had a really good ending. The rest was a mess.

Why is MCU almost always very good and Star Wars average?

Lots of reasons. Ten off the top of my head.

1 ) Script and dialog
2 ) Better actors and actresses by a mile
3 ) More interesting ( and better looking ) women character
4 ) They give the fans what they want while keeping it fresh
5 ) Very few if any roll eyes moments
6 ) Funnier
7 ) Better chemistry among the actors and actresses
8 ) Much better Villains ( Omit Rouge One )
9 ) A more tightly connected storyline
10 ) Better character development and plots.

Last edited by Silver lining; 07-29-2018 at 05:14 AM.
  #70  
Old 04-12-2019, 09:58 AM
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Bumping because there's an Episode IX panel today at Star Wars Celebration at 11CDT, noon EDT. Will be live-streamed here and on the Star Wars YouTube Channel.

Reading that this might include the reveal of the title and first trailer.

Last edited by Happy Lendervedder; 04-12-2019 at 09:58 AM.
  #71  
Old 04-12-2019, 11:11 AM
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FFS it's 5 mins in and I'm bored stiff.
  #72  
Old 04-12-2019, 12:11 PM
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So, it's The Rise of Skywalker and the Emperor is going to be back.
  #73  
Old 04-12-2019, 12:11 PM
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Just aired. "The Rise of Skywalker"
  #74  
Old 04-12-2019, 12:21 PM
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Teaser Trailer here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adzYW5DZoWs

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  #75  
Old 04-12-2019, 12:44 PM
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Please tell me Anakin/Vader are gong to be in it.
Rise of Skywalker, fucks sake, it’s been 9 films. There have been Mr and Mrs Skywalker. Like and Leia. And Granny Skywalker and her pet tortoise, Gunther.
What exactly is going to rise?
  #76  
Old 04-12-2019, 12:44 PM
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Rise of the Skywalker is a red herring, surely?
  #77  
Old 04-12-2019, 12:46 PM
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Lando's back on the Falcon, and wearing his own clothes!

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  #78  
Old 04-12-2019, 12:49 PM
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Is that Endor? Or Yavin IV? Looks to be Death Star wreckage.

Is Kylo rising? (he is 1/2 Skywalker) that would parallel ROTJ which doesn't thrill me.
(but come on -- either he turns good and/or dies, I don't see him staying evil at the end of the movie)

It's "Rise of Skywalker" (no the)

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  #79  
Old 04-12-2019, 12:51 PM
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My first thought on seeing the title - far in the future Rey has become a mythical figure known as The Skywalker, where Luke and company's name has gotten grafted onto her due to the way myths/legends change over time.

Saw some really interesting theories about the Emperor's role and that he might have been Kylo's true master all along (which is why he was so into being the next Vader).
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:59 PM
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I hope Rey doesn't become a blood Skywalker. But adopting the name would be fine.
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Old 04-12-2019, 01:15 PM
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I hope Rey doesn't become a blood Skywalker. But adopting the name would be fine.
Yeah, it's funny because I like about half of TLJ, and it's apparently all the things that annoy everyone else. Luke dying, Rey not having famous parents, Snoke dying and not being explained, all wonderful decisions. If they retcon that (can fanwank it as not a retcon, could just be that Kylo lied) and Rey is a Skywalker all along, I will be disappointed.
  #82  
Old 04-12-2019, 01:18 PM
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I thought the point of TLJ was that "Skywalkers" don't matter. That its time to let go of the past.

Also...reintroducing the Emperor now?? This is the most pointless saga ever. What are the stakes?? Whats going on?? Who is in charge?? Snoke is dead. The first orders fleet seems puny and decimated. Palpatine had vast powers and a lot of resources. What the hell does Ben have? The Rebellion was down to like ten people!

Going into ROTJ we knew who the bad guys were and what the good guys need to accomplish. I got no clue going into Ep.9 and a handful of characters i have no investment in.
  #83  
Old 04-12-2019, 01:24 PM
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I thought the point of TLJ was that "Skywalkers" don't matter. That its time to let go of the past.
I thought that was what Kylo Ren said, not necessarily the point of the movie. Rey did, after all, take the Jedi books at the end. Also, this is still part of the Skywalker saga, so regardless of Kylo's plea to Rey, Skywalkers do still matter to the story.
  #84  
Old 04-12-2019, 02:03 PM
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Neat trailer.

Emperor Palpatine is back? Yeesh.
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:33 PM
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heh if I remember in the expanded universe .. they discovered palpatine was cloning himself or parts of because of the toll the dark side took on him physically
and someone brings a full clone back online and luke joins him for a while …

Its one of the reasons that although luke was an arch mage level jedi he was exiled and pretty much banned from doing anything useful officially by the "new jedi council"


Like I said years ago .. disneys cherry picking the EU for what they need and heck with the rest ….

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  #86  
Old 04-12-2019, 02:48 PM
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Also...reintroducing the Emperor now??
On the plus side, Ian McDiarmid is a decent actor and can out-act the rest of the cast combined with just a sneer.
  #87  
Old 04-12-2019, 03:32 PM
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Also...reintroducing the Emperor now?? This is the most pointless saga ever. What are the stakes?? Whats going on?? Who is in charge?? Snoke is dead. The first orders fleet seems puny and decimated. Palpatine had vast powers and a lot of resources. What the hell does Ben have? The Rebellion was down to like ten people!
Seems like a good spot to "reset" the Star Wars universe for whatever they want.

They are clearing the decks to let them do almost anything after this.

I doubt Disney wants to be beholden to any pesky Star Wars canon down the road.
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  #88  
Old 04-12-2019, 04:03 PM
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Seems like a good spot to "reset" the Star Wars universe for whatever they want.

They are clearing the decks to let them do almost anything after this.

I doubt Disney wants to be beholden to any pesky Star Wars canon down the road.
They already did that, when they bought out Lucas. The only canon they're beholden to is the canon they've established themselves. Which they can throw out if they want, but I think people are going to want some kind of continuity between pictures.
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Old 04-12-2019, 04:09 PM
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My first thought on seeing the title - far in the future Rey has become a mythical figure known as The Skywalker, where Luke and company's name has gotten grafted onto her due to the way myths/legends change over time.
I'm guessing (and I'm not alone) that "Skywalker" will be the new mythical group of warrior/protectors that replace the Jedi.

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It's "Rise of Skywalker" (no the)
Just to maintain our reputation for pedantry, the trailer shows it with "The".
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Old 04-12-2019, 05:51 PM
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I meant it isn't "rise of THE Skywalker" (yes, I also got it wrong. it is "The Rise of Skywalker")

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Old 04-12-2019, 06:07 PM
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These are not valid criticisms.
Of course they are.
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Old 04-12-2019, 06:48 PM
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Yeah, it's funny because I like about half of TLJ, and it's apparently all the things that annoy everyone else. Luke dying, Rey not having famous parents, Snoke dying and not being explained, all wonderful decisions. If they retcon that (can fanwank it as not a retcon, could just be that Kylo lied) and Rey is a Skywalker all along, I will be disappointed.
These are exactly my feelings too. I actually came away from the teaser with doubtful concern.
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Old 04-12-2019, 07:48 PM
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And I thought that it was unambiguously clear that The Last Jedi was better than The Force Awakens, and found it refreshing that they were going in new directions. Most of the criticisms people have of TLJ seem tome to be things that were forced into the movie by Abrams' decisions.
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:28 PM
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And I thought that it was unambiguously clear that The Last Jedi was better than The Force Awakens
To who? Not to a lot of people. It was neither fish nor fowl nor good red meat. Johnson made a mess of the plot and the pacing and the characterization but all would have been forgiven had he ACTUALLY been as daring as he was PRETENDING he was. The end of the movie should have been Rey agreeing to join Kylo. And then you see Chewie coming to pick up the survivors in the Falcon and Leia asks what happened to Rey and CREDITS. You have to wait until the next movie to find out if she turned or she was playing him to save her friends. THAT would have been daring and ballsy. What we got was a cop-out.
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:40 PM
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Critics gave TLJ a 91% on Rotten Tomatoes.

I agree with Chronos. It was, by far, a better movie than TFA simply by virtue of taking shots at existing belief systems. Making the force a thing for everyone and not just some special branch of wizardry is a major step forward right there. Taking a shot at the Jedi as being all good is another one. By any rational analysis the jedi are idiots who brought about their own downfall and cost the lives of billions. They need to be replaced with something new and better and Johnson took the first steps toward that.

That a bunch of superannuated children couldn't deal with any form of change or new story beats shows their own limitations, not Johnson's.
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:45 PM
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Critics gave TLJ a 91% on Rotten Tomatoes.



I agree with Chronos. It was, by far, a better movie than TFA simply by virtue of taking shots at existing belief systems. Making the force a thing for everyone and not just some special branch of wizardry is a major step forward right there. Taking a shot at the Jedi as being all good is another one. By any rational analysis the jedi are idiots who brought about their own downfall and cost the lives of billions. They need to be replaced with something new and better and Johnson took the first steps toward that.



That a bunch of superannuated children couldn't deal with any form of change or new story beats shows their own limitations, not Johnson's.
I feel the same way. I loved TLJ.
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:32 PM
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Critics gave TLJ a 91% on Rotten Tomatoes.
And if Star Wars was a franchise meant to please movie critics, that would be meaningful. Also, it's disingenuous and insulting to call everyone who disliked TLJ "superannuated children." But typical.
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:37 PM
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Of course they are.
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To who? Not to a lot of people. It was neither fish nor fowl nor good red meat. Johnson made a mess of the plot and the pacing and the characterization but all would have been forgiven had he ACTUALLY been as daring as he was PRETENDING he was. The end of the movie should have been Rey agreeing to join Kylo. And then you see Chewie coming to pick up the survivors in the Falcon and Leia asks what happened to Rey and CREDITS. You have to wait until the next movie to find out if she turned or she was playing him to save her friends. THAT would have been daring and ballsy. What we got was a cop-out.
No, you seem determined to say that not getting what you wanted is a fair criticism of the movie. It's not. Those are entirely subjective and personal reasons, not about what's in the film, but what you thought ought to be in the film. That's like complaining about Lord Of The Rings because it didn't have unicorns in it.

I'm not saying you should like the movie, I don't care if you did or didn't, that's up to you. But you can't blame the movie for it not having what you wanted. You'll never be happy with anything with that attitude.
  #99  
Old 04-12-2019, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Miller View Post
They already did that, when they bought out Lucas. The only canon they're beholden to is the canon they've established themselves. Which they can throw out if they want, but I think people are going to want some kind of continuity between pictures.
Sure they bought the rights to do whatever they please but to keep the IP running they cannot just completely ignore canon.

So, they need to segue out of the canon and this is that.

Narrow the "old" stories through a choke point and then expand on the other side. On the other side you can do whatever you want because you are not bound to any "rules" (or at least very few).

If I was Disney with the IP I would certainly want to clear the decks so I (Disney) could do whatever I (Disney) pleased.

As a Star Wars fan I would stick to canon but apparently that is not as profitable.
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Last edited by Whack-a-Mole; 04-12-2019 at 11:05 PM.
  #100  
Old 04-12-2019, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
It was, by far, a better movie than TFA simply by virtue of taking shots at existing belief systems...Taking a shot at the Jedi as being all good is another one. By any rational analysis the jedi are idiots who brought about their own downfall and cost the lives of billions.
RJ didn't introduce this to the canon. The Clone Wars already made the Jedi out to be deeply flawed and showed that they were largely responsible for their own downfall. Hell, AOTC and ROTS did as well.
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