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Old 01-08-2019, 05:59 PM
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I haz silencer.


After a nine month wait for BATFE to do what NICS does in moments, I picked up my Ruger ISB.
https://ruger.com/micros/silent-sr-ISB/index.html
It is an integrally silenced barrel to fit the Ruger 10/22 takedown I bought a year or two ago. Although I didn't get a chance yet to really wring it out, I did stop at my gun club long enough to run a box of CCI standard velocity .22lr through it. I was impressed. The only sounds are the bolt cycling and the bullets smacking the backstop. I foresee much fun.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:52 PM
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Congrats, sounds like a nice rig!
I hope to do something like that before too long but the wait time is definitely a drawback!
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:03 PM
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I haz envy.
I would love to have a suppressor for my .22s and one (plus a 10.5" barrel) for my 9mm carbine. If I could just walk in and buy one I would have by now. The 9 month wait and hoops to jump through has kept me from pursuing it. There was a bill moving through congress a couple years ago to take suppressors off the ATF list but it apparently has faded away without a trace.

Hearing Protection Act

American Suppressor Association
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:01 PM
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I haz envy as well.

As a resident of a state that is absolutely not gun friendly, I can only imagine what it must be like to be able to go out back and have a good time plinking away at whatever suits one's fancy.
I like New Jersey for many reasons, and it is definitely a good place to live, but this is one activity I truly miss from my younger days.
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:41 PM
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As pleased as I am with the ISB, I don't see myself buying any additional cans. They are at their best on low pressure, subsonic rounds. With mine, the sonic boom off a high velocity .22 is as loud as an unsilenced .22 rifle. While a silenced PPK or Makarov might be amusing, I don't see it as being worth the expense of the can, the taxes, the threaded barrel and installationof same, and specialty ammo.
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:46 PM
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Hey, looks like a fine and fun piece of gear (but waitaminnit, what's this "just the bolt cycling and the rounds hitting" deal? thought that it only dropped the bang down to safe levels.... ETA: ah, I see, lowpres ammo, of course).

River Hippie -- hey, title it the Firearms Noise Reduction Act and I'm there. Or else I'm attaching riders to make earmuffs/plugs tax free and subsidize audiologist/ENT training.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 01-08-2019 at 08:48 PM.
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Old 01-08-2019, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Scumpup View Post
After a nine month wait for BATFE to do what NICS does in moments, I picked up my Ruger ISB.
https://ruger.com/micros/silent-sr-ISB/index.html
It is an integrally silenced barrel to fit the Ruger 10/22 takedown I bought a year or two ago. Although I didn't get a chance yet to really wring it out, I did stop at my gun club long enough to run a box of CCI standard velocity .22lr through it. I was impressed. The only sounds are the bolt cycling and the bullets smacking the backstop. I foresee much fun.
So you don't have to wear ear protection when firing this?
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:31 AM
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So you don't have to wear ear protection when firing this?
No. The only sounds are the bolt moving, which is no louder than cycling it by hand when the gun is unloaded, and the bullet thumping into the backstop. It is quieter than the average air gun. Hell, it is quieter than my staple gun.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-5...R510/206604169

This assumes, of course, the use of subsonic ammo. Although silencers will muffle the muzzle blast from supersonic ammo, the sonic boom off the projectile may still be loud enough to require hearing protection. As I noted above, with supersonic ammo, mine is about as loud as an unsilenced rifle due to the sonic boom.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:48 AM
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They are great devices. My favorite is a SilencencerCo Sparrow that I use the most. It fits 8 of my 22s. Easy to disassemble and clean in my wet tumbler. With subsonic ammo it really does approach movie level of sound. I have Ruger 10/22s and did not know they made an internally suppressed barrel for it. I did know they made one for the non-take down models.

Have fun.
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Old 01-10-2019, 01:46 AM
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I want one, but don't have anything that has threads yet (thinking CZ SP-01). I guess I could go the same option as the OP, though blasphemy of blasphemies I'm not a big fan of the 10/22. Mine's been finicky.

What did it cost though, besides +$200?

Last edited by thelurkinghorror; 01-10-2019 at 01:46 AM.
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Old 01-10-2019, 07:50 AM
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After sales tax, it came in at a little under six hundred.
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:11 AM
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Do you have a link to the item? Can it be disassembled for cleaning? The core on my Sparrow gets pretty dirty after a few hundred rounds, but it's easy to clean. one of my 22LR units does not come apart so I rarely use it anymore.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:05 AM
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I looked at the link and it answered my questions.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:30 AM
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There was a bill moving through congress a couple years ago to take suppressors off the ATF list but it apparently has faded away without a trace.
It's back.

Hearing Protection Act Reintroduced to Congress

Fingers crossed.
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:41 PM
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My one hope for the Trump presidency was that suppressors and SBRs would be de-regulated.
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Old 01-10-2019, 07:27 PM
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My one hope for the Trump presidency was that suppressors and SBRs would be de-regulated.
His personal history pointed towards his support of gun rights as just another lie.
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Old 01-10-2019, 07:39 PM
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I'm not a big fan of the 10/22. Mine's been finicky.
Forgot to address this earlier. I've owned a bunch of 10/22s over the years. I have a bad habit of giving them to mildly anti-gun sorts who I take shooting when they change their minds and decide shooting is teh aw$um!!!1! I've had a couple-three finicky ones pass through my hands. The problem is the extractor. This bad boy fixed every one of them.
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:07 PM
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Forgot to address this earlier. I've owned a bunch of 10/22s over the years. I have a bad habit of giving them to mildly anti-gun sorts who I take shooting when they change their minds and decide shooting is teh aw$um!!!1! I've had a couple-three finicky ones pass through my hands. The problem is the extractor. This bad boy fixed every one of them.
I believe thats the exact same one I bought, just need to put it in.
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Old 01-25-2019, 05:28 PM
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I took it to the range today, despite the 19 degree afternoon temperature, and played with it some. It really is quiet. POI isn't the same as with the standard barrel. I will have to decide whether I want it sighted in with the silenced barrel or with the standard barrel. I am, all things considered, very happy with the gadget. In a better world, if you wanted one, you would just go into a gun store and buy one.
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Old 09-09-2019, 12:36 AM
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My one hope for the Trump presidency was that suppressors and SBRs would be de-regulated.
Trump did not get my vote, but I had hoped for his efforts towards easing silencer restrictions. Unfortunately Trump has gone full retard with his 1st gun grab.

I make 1-2 silencers a year on ATF form 1's. That $200 tax is BS.
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Old 09-09-2019, 12:53 AM
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Trump did not get my vote, but I had hoped for his efforts towards easing silencer restrictions. Unfortunately Trump has gone full retard with his 1st gun grab.

I make 1-2 silencers a year on ATF form 1's. That $200 tax is BS.
I am of the peasant non-NFA race. Do you still have to pay a tax stamp on a Form 1 homebuilder suppressor? I'd love one. I'd love even more if not having one was considered the breach of etiquette it is in other countries.

Yeah, you were probably excited about the Second Amendment Coalition too, huh?
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:46 AM
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Huh, so often in the "what's wrong with movies" threads you almost always get one guy reminding everyone that silencers don't really silence guns. So is this the most silent silencer that ever silenced or have internet nerds been lying to me?
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:07 AM
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In a better world, if you wanted one, you would just go into a gun store and buy one.
Yeah, then we could have even more easily committed murders by people who are impossible to trace because they were able to just walk into a gun shop and buy one without any tracking whatsoever.
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Old 09-09-2019, 12:19 PM
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Huh, so often in the "what's wrong with movies" threads you almost always get one guy reminding everyone that silencers don't really silence guns. So is this the most silent silencer that ever silenced or have internet nerds been lying to me?
Sound is measured in decibels, which is a logarithmic scale. They make the difference between standing next to a jet taking off and standing next to a vuvuzela. The sound is just much shorter but no less damaging. Both are above the recommended dB for risk of hearing loss.
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Yeah, then we could have even more easily committed murders by people who are impossible to trace because they were able to just walk into a gun shop and buy one without any tracking whatsoever.
See post above yours. They are sold over the counter in many countries without any tracking whatsoever.
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Old 09-09-2019, 12:56 PM
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Huh, so often in the "what's wrong with movies" threads you almost always get one guy reminding everyone that silencers don't really silence guns. So is this the most silent silencer that ever silenced or have internet nerds been lying to me?
If you read the posts above closely, OP addresses this. They are using special sub-sonic ammo; when they're using normal supersonic ammo, they note that the gun is almost as loud as a non-silenced gun.

"Silencers" can be very effective at muffling the initial boom from the exploding powder that propels the bullet, but most modern ammo is supersonic, and the sonic boom from the bullet is usually almost as loud as the initial report. If you use special subsonic ammo, you can get pretty close to absolute silence. As far back as WWII, the De Lisle carbine reportedly was completely silent other than the mechanical working of the action.
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Old 09-09-2019, 01:13 PM
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So, is a silencer's main purpose to spare the shooter's ears? In the movies it's always so the bad guy can silently kill someone but I assume that's not why the OP got one
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:17 PM
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So, is a silencer's main purpose to spare the shooter's ears? In the movies it's always so the bad guy can silently kill someone but I assume that's not why the OP got one
What the main purpose is can be debated but ---------- they really aren't silencers so much as noise suppressors. You can still hear something but it isn't readily identifiable as a gunshot. And going by friends who have them its as much because they are legal and the person can afford one as much as benefit to future hearing. But the noise issue really does come into play more than you would think. A crowded indoor range and even with plugs and headphones your ears get a little sore after a while.

But since I own my own cannons ------- its hard to find fault with any reason they want to give.
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:20 PM
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So, is a silencer's main purpose to spare the shooter's ears? In the movies it's always so the bad guy can silently kill someone but I assume that's not why the OP got one
I have no personal experience, but I'm going to guess that pillows don't make very good silencers.
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:54 PM
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I have no personal experience, but I'm going to guess that pillows don't make very good silencers.
You have to make sure to cover the entire face. It's the ensuing struggling that's the real challenge.
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:41 PM
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Is this special subsonic amo expensive?

The big attraction of the 22lr was you could afford to do some plinking. As a kid, I remember paying 50 cents for a box (50 rounds). I am sure they have gone up since. But if the subsonic are a lot more expensive, it would take some fun out of it.
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:44 PM
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You have to make sure to cover the entire face. It's the ensuing struggling that's the real challenge.
Yeah, but you have to whisper "shh shh it will be over soon" to be effective, so it's not silent
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:56 PM
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Is this special subsonic amo expensive?

The big attraction of the 22lr was you could afford to do some plinking. As a kid, I remember paying 50 cents for a box (50 rounds). I am sure they have gone up since. But if the subsonic are a lot more expensive, it would take some fun out of it.
Doesn't appear to be that much more expensive, if it's more expensive at all. See, https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ammunition/rimfire/ as an example. Lots of .22 short and .22 LR subsonic offerings, for less than 8 cents a shot.

FWIW, 45 ACP is quite subsonic in heavier bullets, like 230 grains. A lot of 9mm 147 grain stuff is subsonic too.

Quietest firearm I've heard of (pun not intended), was the Welrod .22 pistol, and it was supposed to still be in the 70-ish db range. DeLisle in the 85 db range. A lot of confusion about the subject, not least of which is that testing standards and practices are a lot different now versus then, for measuring radiated sound from a firearm muzzle. See, e.g., http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=89571

EDIT, thinking of what kopek wrote, they're more like mufflers on a car than anything else. You still hear cars go by, but the sound is nothing like a car with a faulty or nonexistent muffler. 'Gun mufflers': I like it.

Last edited by Gray Ghost; 09-09-2019 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 09-09-2019, 05:00 PM
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.... Do you still have to pay a tax stamp on a Form 1 homebuilder suppressor?
Yes.

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I'd love one. I'd love even more if not having one was considered the breach of etiquette it is in other countries.
I keep seeing this claim from Americans, but I have yet to be told silencers are good manners by anyone outside of the USA.

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Yeah, you were probably excited about the Second Amendment Coalition too, huh?
No. Turns out the 2AC was put in place so people would not notice that Trump thinks silencers are bad, red flag laws require due process after the guns are taken and that his 1st gun grab (bump stocks) was not actually a gun grab because bump stocks are accessories and not machine guns as defined by the NFA of 1934.
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Old 09-09-2019, 05:10 PM
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...."Silencers" can be very effective at muffling the initial boom from the exploding powder that propels the bullet, but most modern ammo is supersonic, and the sonic boom from the bullet is usually almost as loud as the initial report.
There is plenty of modern ammo is that normally subsonic like 45 ACP/Auto Rim/GAP, 45 Colt, 50GI, 22lr std vel, 38 Special/Long Colt, 380 Auto, 44 Russian/Special, 22 short, 32 acp, 300 Whisper/BLK.

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If you use special subsonic ammo, you can get pretty close to absolute silence. As far back as WWII, the De Lisle carbine reportedly was completely silent other than the mechanical working of the action.
The irresponsible claims about the "silent" De Lisle are based on old noise measuring equipment that measures far too low. The De Lisle has been shot with modern meters/mics with the proper <20 micro-second response time and shown to be 130 decibels or so which is very good for anything that is 45 caliber.

The 45 caliber bullet from a suppressed rifle makes a humming sound as it moves through the air; much louder than a subsonic 22lr.
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Old 09-09-2019, 05:13 PM
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So, is a silencer's main purpose to spare the shooter's ears? In the movies it's always so the bad guy can silently kill someone but I assume that's not why the OP got one
More than that. A gun muffler spares the ears of everyone near by; not just the shooter's ear. Shooting with a silencer and ear plugs is nice. When I'm shooting subsonic ammo in a suppressed rifle, I don't even need the ear plugs unless the person next to me is shooting without a silencer.
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Old 09-09-2019, 05:14 PM
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I have no personal experience, but I'm going to guess that pillows don't make very good silencers.
Pillows as silencers suck, unless you don't mind missing the target as the sights are covered up.
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Old 09-09-2019, 05:18 PM
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Is this special subsonic amo expensive?

The big attraction of the 22lr was you could afford to do some plinking. As a kid, I remember paying 50 cents for a box (50 rounds). I am sure they have gone up since. But if the subsonic are a lot more expensive, it would take some fun out of it.
It all depends upon what you buy. CCI standard velocity ammo is subsonic and costs a bit more than their cheap Blazer ammo, but it is easily twice as accurate in a rifle. I only use Blazer in my pistols, the rifles only get the good stuff.

Subsonic ammo for something that is normally supersonic (.308. 5.56, 9mm) can be 2-3 times more expensive. But many shooters reload their brass; loading it to subsonic velocities is easy and cheaper than buying it from the store.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:48 PM
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I have no personal experience, but I'm going to guess that pillows don't make very good silencers.

They tend to catch fire and make messes. You also get a ton of residue on your hand.

Hey ------ I was curious and on a farm so what the heck.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:29 PM
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So, is a silencer's main purpose to spare the shooter's ears? In the movies it's always so the bad guy can silently kill someone but I assume that's not why the OP got one
I wear hearing protection. I think my neighbors would love it if I could easily buy suppressors. I'd like to have one for 9mm and one for .22LR. Two suppressors would be 400 bucks in tax for the two plus the cost of the suppressors themselves which is higher than I would have thought. 1000 to 1200 total at least. It's not the cost that holds me back, it's the unknown length of time to run the NFA background check (11 months last I checked) and the uncertainty of legality in the future. I liken suppressors to mufflers on a motorcycle. It doesn't silence them but makes them way less annoying. If anyone is curious how much suppressors quiet firearms in real life, check YouTube.
A couple mass shootings ago, can't remember where, there was reporting that the shooter used a suppressor. Does anyone know if that turned out to be the case and if it was ever determined whether it was legally obtained or black market or home-brewed?
Nevermind, answered my own question.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:43 PM
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Trump did not get my vote, but I had hoped for his efforts towards easing silencer restrictions. Unfortunately Trump has gone full retard with his 1st gun grab.

I make 1-2 silencers a year on ATF form 1's. That $200 tax is BS.
Make no mistake, I did not vote for him. I doubt he knows any more about guns than about anything else.
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Old 09-10-2019, 08:32 AM
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I make 1-2 silencers a year on ATF form 1's. That $200 tax is BS.
I've done a Form 1 for an SBR, as well as several Form 4s. So I've got a question.

They sell "Solvent Trap" kits at the local shows, wink wink. and I know that they can be made into silencers. Am I correct that I can buy a kit, engrave ID markings on it and submit a Form 1, then assemble when the form is returned?
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:38 AM
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So, is a silencer's main purpose to spare the shooter's ears?
There's reason to consider a suppressor even if it didn't reduce the noise.

They can improve accuracy. When the bullet is first exiting the barrel its still exposed to turbulence from the propellant gases. By channeling off part of those gases into the silencer there's less power behind that turbulence to affect the path of the bullet.

They reduce felt recoil. Instead of all the gases going straight out the barrel and contributing to that equal and opposite reaction backwards it diverts and spreads out that reaction over time. That means a lower felt kick that needs to be controlled. Newer shooters can have a hard time not anticipating recoil in ways that affect their ability to hit targets. A suppressor can make learning to shoot easier. Someone who only shoots rarely, like say in preparation for and during deer season, might also benefit since they don't necessarily train often enough to resist the urge to anticipate recoil.

Smaller shooters and those shooting relatively powerful weapons can benefit from that lower felt recoil even without the accuracy issue. It can simply be more comfortable and enjoyable for them to spend a day at the range with that lower recoil.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:02 AM
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Hey ------ I was curious and on a farm so what the heck.
There's an excuse to cover a multitude of sins.
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:25 PM
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They sell "Solvent Trap" kits at the local shows, wink wink. and I know that they can be made into silencers. Am I correct that I can buy a kit, engrave ID markings on it and submit a Form 1, then assemble when the form is returned?
Submit the ATF form 1 and obtain the tax stamp prior to buying any parts that are already machined.

Some of the solvent trap adapters that I've seen were too narrow to completely cover all of the holes in the bottom of a typical oil filter. This is an example; https://www.infiniteproductsolutions...trap-adapters/

If you attach it to a gun and use it as a silencer, it will reduce noise, probably very poorly and blow gas back into your face. But legally it will still be a silencer even if it sucks at reducing noise.

Also know that the oil filter on a form 1 silencer is not a wipe that can be replaced by the unlicensed owner unless another tax stamp is bought. From what I have heard, the Econocan manufacturer will replace the filter at nominal cost to the owner.

I've been thinking of making an oil filter silencer for a while, but I will use a stainless steel filter, not a paper cartridge filter.
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Last edited by MartinLane; 09-10-2019 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by MartinLane View Post
Submit the ATF form 1 and obtain the tax stamp prior to buying any parts that are already machined.
Well, don't you need the casing at least so you can engrave the makers data as well as the ser#?
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  #46  
Old 09-12-2019, 12:51 AM
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The ATF form 1 has to be approved prior to making any parts. Silencer parts are by themselves silencers in the eyes of the law.

Fill out the application including the description of the firearm (silencer), the length, caliber, model name/number (you make one up), serial number (also one you make up) then send it in along with your $200 check, photos and other documentation required.

When it comes back with the canceled tax stamp attached, make and engrave your parts.
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  #47  
Old 09-15-2019, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinLane View Post
The ATF form 1 has to be approved prior to making any parts. Silencer parts are by themselves silencers in the eyes of the law.

Fill out the application including the description of the firearm (silencer), the length, caliber, model name/number (you make one up), serial number (also one you make up) then send it in along with your $200 check, photos and other documentation required.

When it comes back with the canceled tax stamp attached, make and engrave your parts.
Owning the parts (even unassembled) without the tax stamp and form is considered "Constructive Posession" and is illegal, illogical, yes, but also illegal

the other way of legally "suppressing" a gun is to increase the barrel length, the longer the barrel, the quieter the gun...

I have a CZ 452 Ultra Lux .22LR bolt action rifle, it has a 28.5" barrel, using CCI Subsonic rounds, I can get away with no hearing protection, Remington CBee low velocity rounds are quieter than an airgun, CCI Quiet rounds are similarly quiet, but a little more prone to getting stuck at the end of the barrel (both quiet rounds contain .7 and .5 grains of propellant respectively, typical rounds have around 1.2 grains of propellant)

Shoot the same CCI Subsonics in my Ruger 10/22 or Marlin Model 25 rifles and the muzzle report is easily twice as loud, both the Ruger and Marlin have 18" barrels, compared to the CZ's 28.5"
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  #48  
Old 09-16-2019, 11:08 PM
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Unfortunately the only ammo that is hearing safe in a rifle is 22CB (primer only). They are little 25 grain pellets that move about 700 fps. In a handgun they are still very loud.
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